Author Topic: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!  (Read 94602 times)

Scrat

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #125 on: 2015-06-20 07:27:21 »
I am very interested in two things.

How much interpretation we will be allowed in a full HD 3D Voice over remake. I mean things like blacking out and hearing voices. In text you think they are your own voice at first, later you are unsure, it could be Sephiroth, etc. How will this be portrayed, will these sorts of scenes be lost. I am concerned that a lot of games these days are heavily tutorial focused and often lead you along.

How will the remake cope with the new feel of the game. This point came out of a conversation with my brother yesterday. A lot of the plot and scenes from the 97 game were pretty close to the bone and though the devs were trying to make it quite serious (I think) it often came out cute. For example Barret being angry, waving his arms in the air. Or the already discussed cloud in a dress scene.

To be honest I hope they go for serious and realistic. This will make it cringy at times. Cloud convincing people that he is a whore... I really hope it makes my skin crawl.
Will they, in the modern day culture, dare to make the terrorists the heroes and soldiers the enemy?

edit: grammar

Science Is Bigoted

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« Reply #126 on: 2015-06-20 08:18:01 »
.
« Last Edit: 2015-11-16 07:45:22 by Jenova's Witness »

DLPB

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #127 on: 2015-06-20 13:08:50 »
They should definitely allow you to turn off voice acting, Sunz.  And it's such an EASY thing to allow, as well.  I can imagine that the VA will get annoying in parts or ruin scenes that people had imagined a certain way and, if there is no way to disable it, that becomes a big issue.

As for "hero" and "enemy", the game later shows Barrett repentant about what he did, and Tifa explaining that what they did can never be forgiven.  So it's not like the original game condoned terrorism.
« Last Edit: 2015-06-20 13:30:33 by DLPB »

hian

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #128 on: 2015-06-20 13:48:22 »
To change the pace a bit, and ask a bit more difficult question - If we discard the idea of this being a remake, and more of a reboot, with pretty much everything being different except the general gist of the story, the cast and the setting - what would it take for you people to think of it as a good game on its own merits, and play/enjoy it as such?

DLPB

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #129 on: 2015-06-20 13:54:32 »
To change the pace a bit, and ask a bit more difficult question - If we discard the idea of this being a remake, and more of a reboot, with pretty much everything being different except the general gist of the story, the cast and the setting - what would it take for you people to think of it as a good game on its own merits, and play/enjoy it as such?

I love the original game because it go so much right (with exception of Cait Sith, I hate that guy).  Changing everything I like just wouldn't work...   At the least, the reboot story would have to be a serious gritty tale like the original without the crazy CGI nonsense.  If it was made with a serious intent to be more adult (without Cait would be a bonus!) and less for the fanboy screamers, then I could respect it and give it a chance.  I respect a fiction when the writers care enough to appreciate the intelligence of the viewer and are creating art that has a soul.  So if effort had been placed into the reboot, I'd definitely give it a chance.  But the second I saw a scene where Zax is dodging 1000 soldiers and smiling at the camera, the game would go off.

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #130 on: 2015-06-20 13:55:33 »
I'll play it and probably enjoy it, but I don't really trust them to do the story right in a reboot. One of the biggest criticisms people had for Advent Children was that it didn't make any sense if you hadn't played the game, and I can definitely see them remaking that mistake even in a reboot, which really should be able to stand on its own. I mean, that wouldn't be a problem for me at all, or likely anyone here, as we've all played the original and many of us have played the entire compilation, but it would definitely be an objective problem considering the sheer number of people who will be entering the FF7 universe for the first time.

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #131 on: 2015-06-20 14:06:52 »
I'm not caught up with the thread yet, but I'll leave this here: SE have become too big of a company to create any game with a soul. Development is not a passion driven (perhaps on a individual level, but not on a global level) process. It's business minded. Your hard pressed to find any true good games that spawn from this mentality. SE and other AAA companies tries to create the new Justin Bieber of gaming with each title, not a marble that will stand the test of time. </rant repeat>

I dare SE to prove me wrong. The shareholders wish that I'm right.

Mayo Master

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #132 on: 2015-06-20 15:49:19 »
Hey guys!
I'm back from my two weeks trip. What did I miss?

 :mrgreen:

hian

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #133 on: 2015-06-20 16:56:08 »
I love the original game because it go so much right (with exception of Cait Sith, I hate that guy).  Changing everything I like just wouldn't work...   At the least, the reboot story would have to be a serious gritty tale like the original without the crazy CGI nonsense.  If it was made with a serious intent to be more adult (without Cait would be a bonus!) and less for the fanboy screamers, then I could respect it and give it a chance.  I respect a fiction when the writers care enough to appreciate the intelligence of the viewer and are creating art that has a soul.  So if effort had been placed into the reboot, I'd definitely give it a chance.  But the second I saw a scene where Zax is dodging 1000 soldiers and smiling at the camera, the game would go off.

These are my minimum requirements to bother playing this game if they decide to change things up completely :

- If they make a real reboot in terms of the story, I think I'd like to see them experiment a bit with some of the original concepts for the game - like making it a bit more like an old-school detective/noir kind of narrative presentation. I'd like them to make sure that the presentation of the story is more streamlined in the sense that integral story moments that were only present as obscure flash-backs in the original, now happen as you progress throughout the main story.
The could also flesh out the characters by adding more "moments"/skits/banter along the road.

- If they absolutely must go with an action system, I'd like an action-ATB hybrid system, where for instance, movement/dodges and attacks are freely available, whilst menu devices like materias, items etc. could only be used upon a full ATB gauge, and where opening the extended attack menu, or changing character stops/pauses the flow of combat to allow for deliberate tactical choices.

- If they scrap the world-map, they need to create some sort of large over-world that allows for exploration on par with the original game - no matter how unlikely or how difficult that may be.

There are also some sins for me, that would make me disqualify the game entirely, reboot or not :

- No party play. If the game goes the FF15 route with your party always being under NPC control, I am not bothering with it.

- If the remove meaningful exploration by using a quick-travel map system like FF10, I am not bothering with it.

- If they opt for an entirely action driven fighting system that doesn't allow for dynamic and strategic party battles

- If they start screwing with the soundtrack, and only use a few of the iconic tunes for certain scenes (like in FF15) and the rest
entirely Uematsu-free.

- If the game has your typical Nomura presentation.

As a side-note -

I liked Cait Sith's design, but I felt that his entire being was somewhat of a poor plot-device. Since it's not a real person, but a remote controlled robot controlled by Reeve, it starts begging questions like if Reeve can spare all that time on using that robot, then why the hell can't he just join your party in the flesh once his cover is blown?

Or, why is Cait Sith a recurring character in the FF7 extended universe, seeing as Reeve would have no reason to keep on using that god damn robot once his true identity was known to Cloud and Co.?

Some of the extended universe titles try to back-peddle by making it so that the cat is not being directly controlled but has it's own personality or A.I and is simply receiving orders from Reeve, but this is never expanded upon nor mentioned in the original, and ignores the fact that in the original script, Cait Sith and Reeve speak with the same dialect (Kansai ben) and are indistinguishable in terms of mannerisms etc.



I'm not caught up with the thread yet, but I'll leave this here: SE have become too big of a company to create any game with a soul. Development is not a passion driven (perhaps on a individual level, but not on a global level) process. It's business minded. Your hard pressed to find any true good games that spawn from this mentality. SE and other AAA companies tries to create the new Justin Bieber of gaming with each title, not a marble that will stand the test of time. </rant repeat>

I dare SE to prove me wrong. The shareholders wish that I'm right.

Look up Bravely Default or Bravely Second to see SE games with soul.
You forget that SE is now a publishing company, and that a lot of the games they publish are not produced in-house, and that even some of the games that are, are being produced by smaller teams for smaller markets, who therefore don't work with the same constraints as their AAA departments.

EQ2Alyza

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #134 on: 2015-06-20 18:47:53 »
Hey guys!
I'm back from my two weeks trip. What did I miss?

 :mrgreen:

SE announced a FF7 Remake at the E3 Sony Press Conference, so we're having a conversation on how glorious the game will turn out.

Errr wait, that's a little off. More like, how glorious the game could turn out IF....

Errr wait, that's not all of it. More like also, how glorious the game will not turn out beacause....

You have a lot of reading to catch up on :-P

Mayo Master

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #135 on: 2015-06-20 19:55:37 »
SE announced a FF7 Remake at the E3 Sony Press Conference, so we're having a conversation on how glorious the game will turn out.

Errr wait, that's a little off. More like, how glorious the game could turn out IF....

Errr wait, that's not all of it. More like also, how glorious the game will not turn out beacause....

You have a lot of reading to catch up on :-P

I think you summed it up pretty nicely though :P

Personally, I'm really looking forward to it. Of course, I'm already aware that it may not conform my own vision of a remake. Additionally, I think the announcement pretty much cans the project I was leading with Team Avalanche (IMO there's little sense for me to pursue a graphical overhaul with my very limited means if SE deploys the resources for it) - I guess I'll just have to find something else to do with my time :)

[My 2 cents]
- For numerous reasons, I believe that a full-fledged remake cannot be a simple overhaul of the original. Graphics have to be overhauled, animations have to be overhauled, gameplay has to be modernized (IMO turn-based is obsolete), and the story has to be edited. What is essential is to preserve the "spirit" of the original game. But how do you do that? That's the big problem, because everyone has its own interpretation of what the spirit of FF7 should be like.
- However, speaking of the "spirit" of FF7, I believe that what was shown in the trailer was promising. Midgar was completely revamped, but you could still feel the atmosphere of the dystopian metropolis, with a very strong "Blade Runner" vibe to it. Additionally, we got glimpses of some details (such as the playground slide in the Sector 5 slums) which rather suggest a faithful re-creation of the environments. So far, so good.
- I strongly disagree with the notion that advanced graphics are detrimental to storytelling. As everybody seems to agree with the fact that the golden era of Final Fantasy games were in the PS1 times, remember that these games had such an impression on us back then because they looked amazing. Visuals are essential to get the player immersed in these fantastic worlds (or to display emotions).
- I do not think it is fair to say that there's no passion in the gaming industry anymore. Productions such as The Last of Us or the Witcher 3 show how much heart was put into these games. Heck, even when watching the active time reports related to FFXV, you should see it. Saying "developers are lazy" when these guys are probably above 50 hr/week on it, it's disrespectful at the very least.
- I'm aware there's a lot of potential for derailment, and it's out of our hands, now. And even if they manage in the future to pull off the best remake which could ever be made, it will make some people unhappy. However, part of the reasons why I'm on the "optimistic bandwagon" is that it seems like SE listens: how they turned around FFXIV and how they made the survey on the FFXV demo are signs of that.
[/My 2 cents]

So, in summary, Yay :)

Scrat

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #136 on: 2015-06-20 21:31:22 »
Very true. Despite my criticisms I remain optimistic. I am one of the loud community that begged for a remake and I have got it. What moral standing can I have against it?

This does not make me stop wishing that they would open up preorder tomorrow for £10, take the 20mil and give it half to sakaguchi and half to Uematsu to join the team old bad blood forgotten.

BUT, square does listen and I am excited for it. Shame though my contributions never made it to the game :'(

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #137 on: 2015-06-21 02:52:22 »
SE have become too big of a company to create any game with a soul. Development is not a passion driven (perhaps on a individual level, but not on a global level) process. It's business minded. Your hard pressed to find any true good games that spawn from this mentality. SE and other AAA companies tries to create the new Justin Bieber of gaming with each title, not a marble that will stand the test of time. </rant repeat>
Unfortunately big companies don't care. The gaming market is so big now that you can release an utter piece of garbage, stamp "EA" or "Blizzard" or whatever brand on it, and it's guaranteed to make way more than it cost to produce.

Most people who call themselves gamers aren't. They're just posers trying to hop on the "gaming is cool" bandwagon. Real gamers actually do research on games before they buy them to make sure they're high quality. Case and point: League of Legends and Call of Duty are two of the biggest games in the world, and they're both awful.

hian

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #138 on: 2015-06-21 14:26:53 »
- For numerous reasons, I believe that a full-fledged remake cannot be a simple overhaul of the original. Graphics have to be overhauled, animations have to be overhauled, gameplay has to be modernized (IMO turn-based is obsolete), and the story has to be edited. What is essential is to preserve the "spirit" of the original game. But how do you do that? That's the big problem, because everyone has its own interpretation of what the spirit of FF7 should be like.

This is irrelevant unless you presuppose that the spirit of FF7 is entirely subjective, which it isn't. The experience of it is, but the game is made up of individual components that have specific qualities. Saying that AC is true to the spirit of the original, when it's radically changed the art-style for instance, is a pretty meaningless statement to make.

It's very easy to preserve the spirit of the original, if that's what you set out to do - let's not pretend otherwise. The real issue here, is whether or not it makes sense for SE to preserve the spirit of the original, if doing so runs the risk of harming sales for a new iteration of the game that is going to be extremely costly to make.

I agree - this is a reboot, more than a remake. But let's not pretend that a reboot is going to be true to the original in any meaningful sense of the term in regards to anything but the rough strokes, such as the general story, setting, and cast.

- However, speaking of the "spirit" of FF7, I believe that what was shown in the trailer was promising. Midgar was completely revamped, but you could still feel the atmosphere of the dystopian metropolis, with a very strong "Blade Runner" vibe to it. Additionally, we got glimpses of some details (such as the playground slide in the Sector 5 slums) which rather suggest a faithful re-creation of the environments. So far, so good.

I though the new rendition of Midgard was pretty nice in its own right, but I really don't think it makes sense to say that it's true to the spirit of the original, because the original Midgard was not just a dystopian metrolopolis - it was also filled with vibrant colors, and quirky throwbacks to real-life 90's Tokyo, and anime/street-fashion influences - whilst the new one seems to be going for a much more subdued post 2005 architectural spin, and a much more "realistic"(western) look to it with the exception of the road-way systems, and the trains.
Not saying it's bad - but it's certainly not much like the original except in its basic concept.

- I strongly disagree with the notion that advanced graphics are detrimental to storytelling. As everybody seems to agree with the fact that the golden era of Final Fantasy games were in the PS1 times, remember that these games had such an impression on us back then because they looked amazing. Visuals are essential to get the player immersed in these fantastic worlds (or to display emotions).

Nobody said this though - and besides, advanced graphics does not equal realistic graphics. There are plenty of cartoony games that have extremely advanced graphics. Realism is a style, not a sign of graphical fidelity or quality. The argument people are making is that the new art direction is going to jar with the original narrative and plot, unless they change things up - and chances are that the things they end up changing will not necessarily be good for the plot, and it certainly doesn't bode well for how true it's going to be to the original (which can pan out either way - good or bad).

The PS1 games had very good graphics for their times, but with the exception of FF8, the other PS1 FF games all went for a more stylistic look, rather than a realistic one, and their character designs, and story scenarios reflect this. The two are therefore tied together, so if you change one, the other must too for the sake of consistency.


- I do not think it is fair to say that there's no passion in the gaming industry anymore. Productions such as The Last of Us or the Witcher 3 show how much heart was put into these games. Heck, even when watching the active time reports related to FFXV, you should see it. Saying "developers are lazy" when these guys are probably above 50 hr/week on it, it's disrespectful at the very least.

The Last of Us shouldn't be put next to the Witcher in this regard, seeing as The Last of Us is an enormous AAA production that is emblematic of exactly what a lot of people don't like about the AAA industry (bland game-play that ends of being a "jack of all trades, master of non") whilst the Witcher started out as the first-time a passion product from a relatively small, Polish company.

Besides, just because each single component in a development cycle is developed with care and lots of time, does not mean that the entire product isn't lazy or shoddy. That's a fallacy of composition right there.
It goes without saying that the person on the floor who makes the animations for a character or something to that effect is working their ass off, and probably really invested in that work.
However, when the game itself has been compromised by publishing pressure, and financial concerns, that's going to take its toll on the finished product regardless.
The writers and producers might have great intentions, but when they're working within a corporate structure that rewards recycling of old material and puts out dictates based on way too broad focus groups and market studies enforced on threats of withdrawal of founding, then it's difficult not to view the end-product as passionless.

If anything, if most developers had true passion for their medium and cared about making a product as true to their vision as possible, they'd take their projects to crowd-funding platforms and bypass the greedy publishing mafia altogether - which, many of them have started to do.

- I'm aware there's a lot of potential for derailment, and it's out of our hands, now. And even if they manage in the future to pull off the best remake which could ever be made, it will make some people unhappy. However, part of the reasons why I'm on the "optimistic bandwagon" is that it seems like SE listens: how they turned around FFXIV and how they made the survey on the FFXV demo are signs of that.
[/My 2 cents]

So, in summary, Yay :)

I will grant you this though - SE, especially those in the department dealing with FF products have become better, it seems, at listening to their fans.
In the case of FF7R though - my worry is that the real fans of the original games don't actually make up enough of the market they need to cover, to make it worth listening to them to begin with.
They're more likely to listen to the "average consumer" instead, and make this a game for people who want this game to essentially be a playable version of Advent Children, not FF7 - and with that being said, that's not a game I would be interested in playing, nor a game I think would be very good.
But, we'll see. Again, it might become the next best thing since sliced bread.

It's still better to go into this negative, and be positively surprised, than to go into this positively and get negatively surprised - especially after you dished out 60 bucks for it, and maybe even bought an entire console for it.

Mayo Master

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #139 on: 2015-06-21 17:23:14 »
This is irrelevant unless you presuppose that the spirit of FF7 is entirely subjective, which it isn't. The experience of it is, but the game is made up of individual components that have specific qualities. Saying that AC is true to the spirit of the original, when it's radically changed the art-style for instance, is a pretty meaningless statement to make.

It's very easy to preserve the spirit of the original, if that's what you set out to do - let's not pretend otherwise. The real issue here, is whether or not it makes sense for SE to preserve the spirit of the original, if doing so runs the risk of harming sales for a new iteration of the game that is going to be extremely costly to make.

I agree - this is a reboot, more than a remake. But let's not pretend that a reboot is going to be true to the original in any meaningful sense of the term in regards to anything but the rough strokes, such as the general story, setting, and cast.
It doesn't seem like we would use terms such as "spirit" or "true to the original" with the same ideas in mind. IMO, AC isn't "true to the original" because of its plot and character development, not because of its art style.

I though the new rendition of Midgard was pretty nice in its own right, but I really don't think it makes sense to say that it's true to the spirit of the original, because the original Midgard was not just a dystopian metrolopolis - it was also filled with vibrant colors, and quirky throwbacks to real-life 90's Tokyo, and anime/street-fashion influences - whilst the new one seems to be going for a much more subdued post 2005 architectural spin, and a much more "realistic"(western) look to it with the exception of the road-way systems, and the trains.
Not saying it's bad - but it's certainly not much like the original except in its basic concept.
I do believe it's true to the original, personally. I don't think that Midgar is so "filled with neons and vibrant colors". Some elements are (Honey Bee Inn, Don Corneo's mansion), but many scenes are made with piles of rusted beams and worn corrugated sheets (I've been examining the Sector 5 scenes for a while). 

Nobody said this though - and besides, advanced graphics does not equal realistic graphics. There are plenty of cartoony games that have extremely advanced graphics. Realism is a style, not a sign of graphical fidelity or quality. The argument people are making is that the new art direction is going to jar with the original narrative and plot, unless they change things up - and chances are that the things they end up changing will not necessarily be good for the plot, and it certainly doesn't bode well for how true it's going to be to the original (which can pan out either way - good or bad).
I do believe that the original art style for the fields was aiming at a "realistic" rendition of the environments, with the technological limitations of the times (lighting techniques, shading techniques, limited color palette, etc.). In my opinion, the chibis of the original game were jarring, and I always thought it needed to be addressed. With that in mind, I don't think that a "realistic" art direction is detrimental, or vastly deviating from the spirit of the original.

The PS1 games had very good graphics for their times, but with the exception of FF8, the other PS1 FF games all went for a more stylistic look, rather than a realistic one, and their character designs, and story scenarios reflect this. The two are therefore tied together, so if you change one, the other must too for the sake of consistency.
Sure, I appreciate that I don't really know how the Choco/Mog summon will turn out with realistic art style :)

The Last of Us shouldn't be put next to the Witcher in this regard, seeing as The Last of Us is an enormous AAA production that is emblematic of exactly what a lot of people don't like about the AAA industry (bland game-play that ends of being a "jack of all trades, master of non") whilst the Witcher started out as the first-time a passion product from a relatively small, Polish company.
The Last of Us being emblematic of what people don't like about AAA industry? Sorry, I can't agree with that.

Besides, just because each single component in a development cycle is developed with care and lots of time, does not mean that the entire product isn't lazy or shoddy. That's a fallacy of composition right there.
It goes without saying that the person on the floor who makes the animations for a character or something to that effect is working their ass off, and probably really invested in that work.
However, when the game itself has been compromised by publishing pressure, and financial concerns, that's going to take its toll on the finished product regardless.
The writers and producers might have great intentions, but when they're working within a corporate structure that rewards recycling of old material and puts out dictates based on way too broad focus groups and market studies enforced on threats of withdrawal of founding, then it's difficult not to view the end-product as passionless.

If anything, if most developers had true passion for their medium and cared about making a product as true to their vision as possible, they'd take their projects to crowd-funding platforms and bypass the greedy publishing mafia altogether - which, many of them have started to do.
In that respect, what I'm rather hoping for is that the devs of the remake of FF7 won't be constrained by some kind of "20th anniversary deadline". I believe we would agree that they'd take their time to polish this one (it's not like waiting for 1 or 2 more years will matter, and for the anecdote, it is actually possible to polish a turd).
Otherwise, I believe that the comparison "Greedy publishing companies" vs "Friendly crowd-funding platforms" is a lot less "black & white" world than what you described.

I will grant you this though - SE, especially those in the department dealing with FF products have become better, it seems, at listening to their fans.
In the case of FF7R though - my worry is that the real fans of the original games don't actually make up enough of the market they need to cover, to make it worth listening to them to begin with.
They're more likely to listen to the "average consumer" instead, and make this a game for people who want this game to essentially be a playable version of Advent Children, not FF7 - and with that being said, that's not a game I would be interested in playing, nor a game I think would be very good.
But, we'll see. Again, it might become the next best thing since sliced bread.

It's still better to go into this negative, and be positively surprised, than to go into this positively and get negatively surprised - especially after you dished out 60 bucks for it, and maybe even bought an entire console for it.
Well, the FF7 community of "real fans" is so broad that it exhibits the signs of the unpleasable fanbase. If you prefer to be negative so that you won't get disappointed, I can appreciate that. But if people decide to dislike it, or be dissatisfied by a product "for the masses" in order to assert some kind of intellectual superiority, I don't find it very constructive.
I'll be remaining reasonably optimistic, but that's just me. If the remake doesn't turn out well, I'll still have plenty of other games to play.

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #140 on: 2015-06-21 17:33:48 »
AC isn't true to the original because of its crazy endless battle sequences and CGI fests - and I'd say that is an art style also?  or at the least, CGI seems to make developers go that route.

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #141 on: 2015-06-21 18:20:12 »
Look up Bravely Default or Bravely Second to see SE games with soul.
You forget that SE is now a publishing company, and that a lot of the games they publish are not produced in-house, and that even some of the games that are, are being produced by smaller teams for smaller markets, who therefore don't work with the same constraints as their AAA departments.

lol, yes, case in point. Publishing =/= developing. When I say "from" I mean it as "developed by".

Well, the FF7 community of "real fans" is so broad that it exhibits the signs of the unpleasable fanbase. If you prefer to be negative so that you won't get disappointed, I can appreciate that. But if people decide to dislike it, or be dissatisfied by a product "for the masses" in order to assert some kind of intellectual superiority, I don't find it very constructive.
I'll be remaining reasonably optimistic, but that's just me. If the remake doesn't turn out well, I'll still have plenty of other games to play.

I try to have realistic expectation when it comes to new FF titles (or anything). The way I think these game will turn out, as a whole, is something I probably will not like (which, of course, is based on recent things SE have made and the general direction they seem to go). I don't choose it per se. The reality of it just don't favour me if you will. That does not mean I'm depressed/trying being negative or anything.

Mayo Master

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #142 on: 2015-06-21 18:22:04 »
AC isn't true to the original because of its crazy endless battle sequences and CGI fests - and I'd say that is an art style also?  or at the least, CGI seems to make developers go that route.
In my opinion, these crazy endless battle sequences have their origin in the storyboarding/script, not CGI. You could very well execute crazy endless battle sequences with a drawn anime style.

Scrat

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #143 on: 2015-06-21 18:31:57 »
In that respect, what I'm rather hoping for is that the devs of the remake of FF7 won't be constrained by some kind of "20th anniversary deadline". I believe we would agree that they'd take their time to polish this one (it's not like waiting for 1 or 2 more years will matter.
This is the clincher for me. I think the entire fanbase would agree that they shouldn't rush it.

I'll be remaining reasonably optimistic, but that's just me. If the remake doesn't turn out well, I'll still have plenty of other games to play.
And a Nibelheim to get back to work on ;)

Tenko Kuugen

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #144 on: 2015-06-21 19:01:40 »
No matter what the remake ends up being, I personally will win.
If it's a fantastic remake, I'll definitely enjoy playing that in 2025 when I can afford a PS4.
If it's a good remake, I might play it and enjoy that.
If it's a bad remake, I will certainly enjoy pouring metric tons of salt into people's wounds.
If it's a horrible remake, see above but for an unlimited amount of time.

But most of all, I have zero investment and expectations because having them is one sure way to be disappointed no matter what.

KnifeTheSky77

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #145 on: 2015-06-21 19:24:34 »
The only gripe I will most likely have with this remake is the voice acting. I truly hope that they spend more than $200 of their overall project budget on a decent voice acting director. Advent Children in English made me cringe. Other than that, I am sure they will do a great job. Whether that means the remake closely resembles the original or otherwise. Part of me wants them to take a lot of creative license story-wise and do some things differently, seeing how we've combed through the original with a fine-tooth comb already.

White Wind

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #146 on: 2015-06-21 19:52:03 »
What is that ? I look away for a few days and when I'm back there's suddenly a remake in the oven ? ..That's your fault Dan ?
Maybe I should leave and come back again and Half Life 3 will be out.

I've first heard of it yesterday on euronews, I was shocked x) (about FFVII, not HL)

Well....I don't know. I was WAYYY more astonished, amazed and excited when I discovered Qhimm and what mods can do. For me, Qhimm allows for an enhanced FF VII, and the remake will be something like another kind of FF VII than the one we know. If I want FF VII, I play FF VII, and if I want another kind of FF VII I'll play the remake (if I like it). That's the way I feel it, so no real expectations. I'd just wish the remake will be a balanced and subtle game ( that's asking for too much? ).. and please, no stupid gameplay either. If that, I may like it, even if it is a bit far away from the FF VII we love.

But it just cannot be FF VII. It is made and cannot be remade without becomming something different.
And why not put a VR device on the face and feel something different, never as great as what we played when we were teenagers, but a new and still enjoyable experience....maybe.. I just hope it won't be a hollow game.
And if it is AC-like, that may give me a reason to play the spin-offs. But the true FF VII will still hold its very place in that sweet corner of my mind, and remain what it is.

And also, will be curious to see what content the game will bring to mod 98 FF VII.

DarkMatta

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #147 on: 2015-06-21 23:07:55 »
I wouldn't mind a new battle system (called "Modern" mode or something similar) in the style similar to FFXV or FFXIII, but I would like to be able to switch to other characters at any time to control. The characters that are being controlled by the AI, fall into the style specific to them such as Tifa acrobatically applying various basic melee attacks by jumping off of walls, etc - using her environment. The style of the attack when the player selects it, would also be randomised the same way the game decides the style of the attack for the AI. In conjunction with that, players could set commands for the AI characters to give them specific roles just like in FFXII. Also maybe the ability to swap out characters like in FFX and make battles more tactical to take advantage of this feature.

With that, if people didn't want to play a modern battle mode, then there could be a "Classic/Original" mode option where the battle system is like-for-like of the original and there would obviously be an option to switch between Classic and Modern when selecting a new game or changing between the two in-game. Faithful and modernised at the same time, suiting everyone's taste.

I also thought of how some of the mechanics of battles system could work.

The battle mechanics in terms of characters intelligence. With a foe that is susceptible to more physical damage from being attacked from behind, the higher INT an AI controlled character has, the more likely they are to jockey into a position to try and exploit such a weakness. You'd obviously tie it to the foe's INT, to be more aware of its weakness and position themselves where the weakness can't be exploited. The same could apply to a players accuracy, from outright missing the foe, to causing critical hit. Again tied into the foe's agility, the foe could could just dodge the attack like a boss.

I think this would give battles a very natural flow and create a realistic visual representation of the party's stats and a clear visual growth of the characters through out the game, getting, stronger, faster, more intelligent etc. Just like you might see of a player in a sports game.

I've put too much thought into this, as you can tell.
« Last Edit: 2015-06-21 23:11:40 by DarkMatta »

hian

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #148 on: 2015-06-22 14:03:55 »
lol, yes, case in point. Publishing =/= developing. When I say "from" I mean it as "developed by".

Sorry, I am not a mind-reader - and seeing as SE has been primarily a publishing company for quite some time now, I took "from" to mean "from SE" not "developed in-house in SE" - and seeing as how there is no real distinction a lot of the time, since many teams are made up of contractors to begin with, it doesn't really make sense to draw a line in the sand like that.

There are already rumors going on that this game is primarily being developed by third-party contractors (which would make sense when SE already has so many titles on its plate).

It doesn't seem like we would use terms such as "spirit" or "true to the original" with the same ideas in mind. IMO, AC isn't "true to the original" because of its plot and character development, not because of its art style.
I do believe it's true to the original, personally. I don't think that Midgar is so "filled with neons and vibrant colors". Some elements are (Honey Bee Inn, Don Corneo's mansion), but many scenes are made with piles of rusted beams and worn corrugated sheets (I've been examining the Sector 5 scenes for a while). 

Then re-examine them. Even the reactors you visit clearly use color palettes with deep blues and purples, yellows and greens etc.
Even the metal and rust in FF7 has stronger base-colors than pretty much the deepest color in the remake trailer.

The church, and Aerith's house, the glows that emit from the windows and doors of the houses, the market, the neon-signs, electric currents, and all filled with strong, colorful NPCs.

Compare that to the trailer with its subdued grays, and steel, glass and plastic look I can't even begin to fathom how you could compare the two.

I do believe that the original art style for the fields was aiming at a "realistic" rendition of the environments, with the technological limitations of the times (lighting techniques, shading techniques, limited color palette, etc.). 

Are you for real? Are we splitting hairs here? Would you prefer it if we used the term "semi-realism"?
It's quite obvious that I was talking about by what degree the game was going for photo-realism - and it quite clearly isn't -
FF7 clearly aimed for style, which should be apparent just by looking at the choice of the character designs, and sketches for the environments.

Calm, Cosmo Canyon, the Church, For Condor - I can keep on going - there is absolutely nothing realistic about the color palettes, the architecture, or the scales used for these environments, and non of that has to do with technical limitations, since there is nothing about the times that would have stopped the creators from choosing more subdued colors, more realistic architecture and scales that actually make sense.
(consider that games like Resident Evil 1 predate FF7 and clearly pulled off realistic pre-rendered backgrounds that had non of the artistic liberties of FF7)

In my opinion, the chibis of the original game were jarring, and I always thought it needed to be addressed.

Thank god opinions are just that - opinions. Have you seen what happens when you put the battle models into the games using the mods on this site? Now that is jarring as hell. The environments were clearly not designed for that at all.

With that in mind, I don't think that a "realistic" art direction is detrimental, or vastly deviating from the spirit of the original.

With what in mind? You have yet to make a coherent point about what the spirit of FF7 is supposed to be, so how do you qualify that opinion?
The original, as I've already said and which you've completely ignored, is game sporting a 90's anime style - all the way from the art-direction to the actual plot and characterizations throughout.
There is a reason people are expressing doubts about how the remake will handle the cross-dressing scene, or the Honey Bee Inn, or Nanaki in a sailor costume, or Gold Saucer, or the Snowboard scene - because by all accounts, these things work well in granted the particular style of the original, and would look weird as hell in the style of AC or the style of the current trailer.
If you start cutting all these things out for the sake of a more sombre game, then again, how much sense does it make to claim that it's true to the spirit of the original?
I'm left to wonder what "being true to the original" even means to a person who'd make that argument.

The Last of Us being emblematic of what people don't like about AAA industry? Sorry, I can't agree with that.

You don't have to. Not taking into account that The Last of Us made it into pretty much every "overrate game" of its year, or of the seventh generation in total - it's literally a boxed collection of every PS3 action game convention ever. Linear design, way too much exposition, bland and repetitive game-play, lots of focus on flash and graphics, and a bunch of token game-play mechanics thrown together despite many of them not really serving much of a purpose except padding out the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCmmYF4rOwo


In that respect, what I'm rather hoping for is that the devs of the remake of FF7 won't be constrained by some kind of "20th anniversary deadline". I believe we would agree that they'd take their time to polish this one (it's not like waiting for 1 or 2 more years will matter, and for the anecdote, it is actually possible to polish a turd)..

Optimally, I think they should take their time on it, but I don't think they will. I also think that if Nomura and Co did take their time on it, it might very well end up in development hell like FFVersus13 did.

Otherwise, I believe that the comparison "Greedy publishing companies" vs "Friendly crowd-funding platforms" is a lot less "black & white" world than what you described.

Not really, because I didn't make a black and white statement. I simply said that crowd-funding is preferable to being pushed around by greedy corporations - which it is. Are there issues with crowd-funding platforms? Sure. That wasn't my point though, nor something I feel I had to qualify granted the fact that I qualified exactly what kind of thing I was comparing it too - which was a very specific problem inherent to most larger publishing companies.
Did you do anything to address that point? Nope.

Well, the FF7 community of "real fans" is so broad that it exhibits the signs of the unpleasable fanbase. If you prefer to be negative so that you won't get disappointed, I can appreciate that. But if people decide to dislike it, or be dissatisfied by a product "for the masses" in order to assert some kind of intellectual superiority, I don't find it very constructive.

Well, I am not, so there's that. I am simply voicing my opinion, which is a reflection of how I honestly feel about these products.
If you thought that, then maybe you should examine why you thought so?
Criticizing a art or media for its mass appeal is not a criticism of the people who enjoy it, unless you assume that the only reason they enjoy it is for its mass appeal - however, I am not making that argument.

I've enjoyed many things that have mass-appeal - I am simply saying that when a thing is made with mass-appeal as a starting point, then the thing is going to be bland - and while that might work for a person who's new to that kind of product, it's not going to work for someone who's been jaded by diminishing returns after having experienced multiple similar products.

If FF7R ends up being just another FF15, or the next The Last of Us in RPG form, to me, that's an issue - because I've already played way too many games like that, and they're not that much fun to play anymore.

DLPB

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #149 on: 2015-06-22 14:12:44 »
Haha, sorry but had to share this :P

http://i.imgur.com/9Mmy2Us.jpg