Author Topic: What Leftism Is  (Read 18840 times)

DLPB

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #100 on: 2016-07-01 19:25:13 »
I'd argue genetics is the biggest factor - but definitely upbringing is also a huge contributor. We know for a fact that Africans have an average IQ of around 70-80 - and so you can easily infer from that the reasons for so many of the problems on that continent.  And IQ is largely genetic.  It's a proven fact that men and women and different races have massive differences caused by genetics.  Just looking at men and women's brains shows we are wired differently - and no matter what you do in life, that will stay true.

It's the reason men are better at sport, for example, than women. Especially at the top levels.  Not just speed, stamina, strength - but spacial awareness and reaction time. We are not born equally from human to human, let alone race to race, or gender to gender.
« Last Edit: 2016-07-01 19:29:28 by DLPB »

StickySock

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #101 on: 2016-07-01 19:53:42 »
I don't deny that there are genetic differences between all peoples, including the sexes. I just don't believe all behavior can be attributed (some can, obviously) to the way our brains are wired, or even the things we learn through upbringing.

Humans are currently unpredictable through modern scientific methods. The secret to human existence is the secret to life itself, and if scientists could quantify it we would already have fully cognitive androids to replace human beings all together. So the best compromise I can say is that we don't fully know (yet).

To understand my stance on the matter we'd have to get into randomness and how I don't believe it is real. That if one could know all the variables in the universe at every given moment, we could predict everything. It's just our lack of perspective and understanding that gives the illusion of randomness.

Now where science obviously cannot prove and thus I have no evidence to argue, is that I believe humans are the only known creatures in the known universe that ARE truly random. I believe genetics, culture, environment, etc. can influence a person's behavior, but not account for all of it. If you knew all the variables in the universe I believe you could predict human behavior 99.9% of the time or maybe more, but never fully 100% for everyone. I believe that artificial and natural are relevant terms despite the fact that technically humans ARE part of nature and therefore any course of action we take could be considered "natural" (the best argument against environmentalists, really), but in reality it is obvious that there is a difference. Somehow humans CAN manipulate the variables in the universe in ways that other animals simply can't, and whether we evolved to this point, were created to be like this, or some other third unrevealed option, I believe humanity is a unique species of animal and valuable in this way.

It may just be a rationalization for my own existence, that I'm not just some organic machine stuck on a rock floating in a vast endless void, but I reject the notion of fate entirely and have hope that every human being has the potential to be more than the sum of their parts and choose to do what's right, regardless of genetics, culture, or upbringing.

Science Is Bigoted

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #102 on: 2016-07-02 05:08:44 »
For someone who "doesn't know if the holocaust actually happened", you seem to "know" a lot about primitive humans before civilization.  :-P
It is a crime in many places to deny or even question that the Holocaust happened, the degree to which it happened, or the culpability of the perpetrators.  That alone - the quelling of objective research - is enough to make me want to learn more about it.

Beyond that, there is plenty of peer-reviewed research on population genetics, population migrations, and the genetic components of intelligence and behavior.

The key difference between you and I seems to be that you believe genetics have the predominant role in human behavior, and I argue that not only are humans spontaneous in their behavior (much more than any animal ever will be), but also that culture and tradition has a much greater impact than genetics do.
The research says otherwise.

For instance, men have more testosterone than women so they tend to be more violent. This would seem to be an observation that would lend credence to your argument. So then what should women do to force men to behave more peacefully?
Men commit most of the violent crime and they usually have much higher testosterone levels, so yes that makes sense.  I don't think that women actually want men to behave peacefully, they seem to prefer violent men in my experience.

The problem I have is that I have an abnormal amount of testosterone compared to most men (I looked like a yeti since like 6th grade), and yet I am one of the least violent people I know. Humans still have the cognitive ability to refuse to act on animalistic urges and tendencies (yes, even those with very low IQ's).
Unless you have been tested for hormone levels this isn't necessarily true.  Africans have the highest testosterone levels in humans, yet they are not very hairy unless they are mixed with Europeans.  The biochemical pathway for increased hair growth isn't that simple.  While testosterone is definitely a variable for both hair growth and violence, it's not the only one.  Others for hair growth could be testosterone sensitivity of hair producing cells, and the number of hair producing cells.  Other variables for violence are intelligence.

I admire the effort you put into your posts, and I commend you for being civil while discussing issues that could easily become heated and emotional. That being said, your viewpoints are definitely racist even if they are not meant to inflict harm on other races, just with the justification that you believe evolution and modern science support you. And in a way they do, but I think you have lost sight of the fact that humans are NOT animals, and so using studies of animals to understand human behavior is insufficient.
Humans are 100% animals.  I'm an atheist, that won't work on me.

Besides that, do you seriously expect that the biological mechanisms that influence behavior would change that much between the time when the common ancestor of foxes and humans diverged?  Why does everyone believe, contrary to all evidence that I share with them, that biological evolution stops below the neck?  We are not special.  We are simply hairless tool-using apes, so why does everyone insist that they are not like other mammals?

The term racist is not a valid argument.  It is an emotional argument meant to shut down discussion.  Considering that ethnic Africans suffer just as much as we do in the current system, you'd think that liberals would be willing to disregard crimethink to find a way to make them function in our society; but apparently mouthing the party line is more important than bringing about actual, material improvements to the lives of the poorest and least-fit people in our world today.

Humans have so much more to them than animals do that no scientist alive today or that has ever been alive can fully comprehend. If you keep trying to categorize people by their evolutionary history, your models will always be demonstratively lacking. Humans will always surprise you with their unpredictability. I guarantee it.
If you had read my collection of hatefacts you would have found much to dissuade you from these untested beliefs.



http://www.cpc.unc.edu/projects/addhealth/publications/database/5164
No evidence of racial discrimination in criminal justice processing: Results from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health.

When controlled for IQ and self-reported past history of violence there is no evidence of racial discrimination by justice system.

In other words, three people with the same IQ and same self-reported past histories of violence (or the same levels of violence, if such a thing can be measured) have the same outcomes in the US criminal justice system.  Since ethnic Africans make up a disproportionate amount of the US prison population (and the prison populations in most other countries that have significant populations of ethnic Africans), this means that ethnic Africans are more likely to have low IQs and to do violent things.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3455741
Serum testosterone levels in healthy young ethnic African and ethnic European men, by Ross et al. 

Ethnic African men have 10% - 15% higher testosterone than ethnic European men.  Note that this was a study to test a hypothesis that ethnic African men have higher levels of prostate cancer because they have higher levels of testosterone, so it's unlikely to be tainted by bias as it was done to address an entirely unrelated problem.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3575604
Saliva testosterone and criminal violence in young adult prison inmates.  More violent inmates and inmates rated as tougher by other inmates have higher levels of testosterone.

This is another study which confirms that violence and being physically intimidating is strongly correlated with testosterone.

https://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/30years/Rushton-Jensen30years.pdf
Thirty Years Of Research On Race Differences In Cognitive Ability.

This is a survey of dozens of research papers (which are themselves built on other research papers) - I think about 60 or 80 papers, which demonstrates a number of things.  Namely that while childhood IQ is dependent mostly on environment, adult IQ is dependent mostly on inherited variables (genes).

Notable takeaways are that after about age 12 (and even more so after about age 18), intelligence is determined mostly by genes; and that Africans, Europeans, and Asians are biologically very different from each other in many ways.  Asians are the most intelligent, have the largest brains, are the fastest, and develop the slowest.  Africans are their opposites, and Europeans are in between.
https://i.sli.mg/ZntLlE.png


http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/v20/n1/full/mp2014105a.html
Genetics and intelligence differences: five special findings, by R Plomin and I J Deary.  Replicates what several other papers demonstrate - IQ is at least 80% heritable.

http://pritchardlab.stanford.edu/publications/pdfs/RosenbergEtAl02.pdf
Humans can be genetically categorized into five racial groups, corresponding to traditional races.

http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf
Genetic analysis "supports the traditional racial groups classification."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15508000
"Human genetic variation is geographically structured" and corresponds with race.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15625622
Race can be determined via genetics with certainty for >99.8% of individuals.

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-10-oral-bacteria-fingerprint-mouth.html
Oral bacteria can be used to determine race.

http://www.cell.com/current-biology/abstract/S0960-9822(15)00671-5
Race can be determined via brain scans.

http://www.ln.edu.hk/philoso/staff/sesardic/Race2.pdf
Common-sense racial categories have biological meaning.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/12061787/Intelligence-genes-discovered-by-scientists.html
Human intelligence up to 75% inheritible

http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/v16/n10/abs/mp201185a.html
Human intelligence is highly heritable.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289608000305
Scientific consensus is that IQ tests are not racially biased.

http://www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html
Very poor Whites are comparably intelligent to very wealthy blacks.

http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/1994egalitarianfiction.pdf
Privately, intelligence experts hold more hereditarian views than they express in public.

http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1977-07996-001
Black children raised in White households have similar IQs to black children in black households.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886912003741
The average African IQ is estimated at 79.

http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/reprints/1997mainstream.pdf
The average African-American IQ is 85, compared to the average White IQ of 100.

http://www.jbhe.com/features/49_college_admissions-test.html
The white-black gap in SAT scores, a proxy for IQ, is increasing.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB115040765329081636
Genes for large brains, linked to high IQ, are common everywhere except Africa.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/aug/10/news/la-heb-genetic-study-intelligence-20110809
Intelligence has at least a 40-50% genetic basis.

http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf
IQ scores are the best predictor of success in Western society.

http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf
IQ is 75% heritable among Whites.



I'd argue genetics is the biggest factor - but definitely upbringing is also a huge contributor. We know for a fact that Africans have an average IQ of around 70-80 - and so you can easily infer from that the reasons for so many of the problems on that continent.  And IQ is largely genetic.  It's a proven fact that men and women and different races have massive differences caused by genetics.  Just looking at men and women's brains shows we are wired differently - and no matter what you do in life, that will stay true.

It's the reason men are better at sport, for example, than women. Especially at the top levels.  Not just speed, stamina, strength - but spacial awareness and reaction time. We are not born equally from human to human, let alone race to race, or gender to gender.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/12/california-transgender-woman-plays-college-basketball/

A 52 year old trans woman is playing in college basketball.  She clearly has the bone structure of a man.  She has had something like 35 years of male hormones affecting her brain structure, bone structure, eyesight, muscularity, and who knows what else.  Yet, according to liberals, it is perfectly acceptable for her to play against college aged women in a competitive sport.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_%28tennis%29#1998:_Karsten_Braasch_vs._the_Williams_sisters

A slightly buzzed male smoker beat the Williams sisters in a 2 on 1 tennis match.



I don't deny that there are genetic differences between all peoples, including the sexes. I just don't believe all behavior can be attributed (some can, obviously) to the way our brains are wired, or even the things we learn through upbringing.

Humans are currently unpredictable through modern scientific methods. The secret to human existence is the secret to life itself, and if scientists could quantify it we would already have fully cognitive androids to replace human beings all together. So the best compromise I can say is that we don't fully know (yet).
Nonsense.  You don't need to understand everything about a system to figure out how parts of it works.

To understand my stance on the matter we'd have to get into randomness and how I don't believe it is real. That if one could know all the variables in the universe at every given moment, we could predict everything. It's just our lack of perspective and understanding that gives the illusion of randomness.
I think it's funny how liberals deconstruct the concept of knowledge when confronted with evidence that their beliefs have no basis in reality.

Now where science obviously cannot prove and thus I have no evidence to argue, is that I believe humans are the only known creatures in the known universe that ARE truly random. I believe genetics, culture, environment, etc. can influence a person's behavior, but not account for all of it. If you knew all the variables in the universe I believe you could predict human behavior 99.9% of the time or maybe more, but never fully 100% for everyone. I believe that artificial and natural are relevant terms despite the fact that technically humans ARE part of nature and therefore any course of action we take could be considered "natural" (the best argument against environmentalists, really), but in reality it is obvious that there is a difference. Somehow humans CAN manipulate the variables in the universe in ways that other animals simply can't, and whether we evolved to this point, were created to be like this, or some other third unrevealed option, I believe humanity is a unique species of animal and valuable in this way.

It may just be a rationalization for my own existence, that I'm not just some organic machine stuck on a rock floating in a vast endless void, but I reject the notion of fate entirely and have hope that every human being has the potential to be more than the sum of their parts and choose to do what's right, regardless of genetics, culture, or upbringing.
Tactical nihilism, also known as the propensity of progressives to deconstruct reality when it conflicts with their belief system.

olearyf2525

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #103 on: 2016-07-03 15:10:51 »
Build Wall makes some good points, that being said I'll probably vote Hillary since it's obvious from my real life experience, from history and from this forum thread that people are still too comfortable as our societies are slowly rotting away from the same people who always try to rot our societies. Unfortunately things needs to get worse before they can get better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeMZGGQ0ERk&index=1&list=LL1bkXHE_h_wD8cHnpU7p3nw
« Last Edit: 2016-07-03 16:09:12 by olearyf2525 »

DLPB

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #104 on: 2016-07-03 15:37:27 »
That being said with other original post - it is important everyone is treated as a human (and every animal treated with respect too) AND that we have equal opportunities.  That does not mean what the feminists mean - as in "positive discrimination"  - which is sexist by definition.

Science Is Bigoted

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #105 on: 2016-07-03 16:48:13 »
Build Wall makes some good points, that being said I'll probably vote Hillary since it's obvious from my real life experience, from history and from this forum thread that people are still too comfortable as our societies are slowly rotting away from the same people who always try to rot our societies. Unfortunately things needs to get worse before they can get better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeMZGGQ0ERk&index=1&list=LL1bkXHE_h_wD8cHnpU7p3nw

Yuri is my idol!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3qkf3bajd4

An accelerationist, I take it?  Electing Hillary would accelerate the decline, which is actually my goal (besides making others aware of the obstacles we face), but the absolute best red pill to the general public and the fastest acceleration would be if Trump won the election but was somehow prevented from taking office.  Doubly so if this was some sort of soft-power play, or if he was arrested by Obama.  Unlikely, but it would be a huge coup for us.

Trump winning is nice, but it's ultimately a secondary goal.  The primary goal is to crash the system.

That being said with other original post - it is important everyone is treated as a human (and every animal treated with respect too) AND that we have equal opportunities.  That does not mean what the feminists mean - as in "positive discrimination"  - which is sexist by definition.

Treating each other, other animals, and the environment with respect is something which only ethnic Europeans care about, unfortunately.  Look at what China did to their own nation.
« Last Edit: 2016-07-03 16:49:44 by B U I L D W A L L »

Tekkie.X

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #106 on: 2016-07-04 16:22:01 »
Hey look, Farage just quit.

DLPB

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #107 on: 2016-07-04 17:07:50 »
Hey look, Farage just quit.

He played his part :)  Can't blame him for wanting his own life now.

Covarr

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Re: What Leftism Is
« Reply #108 on: 2016-07-04 19:04:08 »
This thread has gotten more racist than I can in good conscience allow to continue. So I won't.