Author Topic: "FF7: Wife-beater Cid? Am I meant to like this guy?"  (Read 4210 times)

sen

  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 1252
  • Karma: 26
    • View Profile
This is not my post but a post elsewhere thought id share it here what you think ill copy paste everything here inc title

Quote
So, I'm currently playing through Final Fantasy 7 (I never got past disk 1 when I was a kid) and I'm finding it really interesting...

Basically, most of the dialogue dialogue in the game is ferning mental.

I've just met Cid, an engineer who wants to go into space, right? I meet his girlfriend, Shera.

Poor, poor, Shera.

I go back to their place. Cid storms through the door.

CID: <obscenity> Shera. What are you, blind!? We got gusts!! GET SOME TEA <obscenity>
SHERA: I...I'm sorry."

Cloud and the gang stand there, pretty awkwardly. "Really," he says, "don't mind us."

After essentially telling us to sit the fern down and drink out tea, he shouts "Damn, I'm pissed!"

Aeries asks if he's always like this. She's consumed by self-doubt. "It's my fault," she says. "I ruined his dream."

Flashback to Cid watching his wife work away at the rocket, telling her to get her ass in gear and that she "works like a snail."

Everything's getting prepared for the big rocket launch and Cid's ego-fuelled space exploration adventure. His wife couldn't get something finished in time. She's still working away while he's attempting to take off. Obviously, he's wondering what she's still doing down there, and tells her she's obviously going to be killed if she's in this area while the ship takes off.

Her response is pretty much "I get how much you're into this. I'm cool about dying"

But hey, guess who pushed the emergency engine shut down switch and aborted the mission, saving her life in the process? Good guy Cid.

And now for some reason, he's justified in treating and talking to his wife like strawberries?

Am I meant to like this character? Is this going to be PC for the FF7 remake? Is the vast majority of FF7 going to be suitable for a modern day audience or are they going to have to make a HUGE amount of editing to the story and text?

DLPB

  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 9099
  • Karma: 274
  • For I realized that God's a young man, too.
    • View Profile
Re: "FF7: Wife-beater Cid? Am I meant to like this guy?"
« Reply #1 on: 2016-11-04 18:29:01 »
Modern day audience as in the snowflake generation that can't handle anything even remotely challenging? How ridiculous. He doesn't beat his wife either. He verbally abuses her due to his belief she wrecked his dream for no good reason. I find it more concerning that this simple plot thread appears to be too challenging for the person you quoted. People do unfortunately treat their friends like crap for various reasons. Which reminds me... She isn't even his wife. That whole post is dumb.

DragRopes

  • Freak
  • *
  • Posts: 879
  • Karma: -22
    • View Profile
Re: "FF7: Wife-beater Cid? Am I meant to like this guy?"
« Reply #2 on: 2016-11-04 23:22:18 »
Alright well...  First off, DLPB... just... no.  Statements like "He verbally abuses her due to his belief she wrecked his dream for no good reason." make it sound like his behavior is justified... Which it isn't.  It's really that simple.  He's a piece of strawberries at the beginning of the game.  That's kind of the whole point.  His abuse of Shera is part of a broader storyline that culminates with that tank exploding and her having done the right thing.  He realizes that when the tank blows, and realizes that he's been a douche the whole time, that's the ferning point.  You can kick and scream all you want about "special little snowflakes" being unable to handle strawberries; but you're just being an idiot looking for things to kick and scream about.  You've shown over and over again that you're a sexist xenophobe, that can't handle anybody not agreeing with that viewpoint.  Fact of the matter is; the guy posting is right in that he isn't supposed to really like the guy (despite his misunderstandings that A) Shera is his wife, which is explicitly stated in that very scene he's talking about, and B) he's never shown to, or hinted to be, beat her), he just missed the part where it's part of a larger storyline.

tl;dr  You're both wrong.

Covarr

  • Covarr-Let
  • Administrator
  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 3965
  • Karma: 120
  • The Great Redarr.
    • View Profile
Re: "FF7: Wife-beater Cid? Am I meant to like this guy?"
« Reply #3 on: 2016-11-04 23:33:45 »
Sigh. Warning issued. You didn't need to jump to namecalling. ~Covarr

As for the post sen quoted from elsewhere, there are a lot of problems with it. Not only are like 2/3 of the facts wrong, but it relies on the underlying assumption that the game is somehow glorifying Cid's behavior. It's not. I'm generally annoyed by the idea that portraying something and glamorizing it are the same thing, because they absolutely aren't. Nothing about the game says he's justified in anything he does. Shera says that, but this is standard victim self-blame—human psychology at its most real.

DLPB

  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 9099
  • Karma: 274
  • For I realized that God's a young man, too.
    • View Profile
Re: "FF7: Wife-beater Cid? Am I meant to like this guy?"
« Reply #4 on: 2016-11-04 23:44:02 »
@dragropes

I'll sum it up for you even more simple

A. He isn't a wife beater, because he doesn't beat his wife.
B. Shera isn't his wife.
C. This is a fictional story, so no one is actually doing anything.
D. The Snowflake Generation need to grow some balls and stop being so "offended" all the time.

Also, as Covarr said, it doesn't glorify the behaviour. He is chastised for it immediately after the first time he does it - and later in the game he apologizes.  Posts like the one quoted need to be laughed at and ridiculed for their awesome stupidity.

The other day, someone replied to a comment I made on YT accusing me of glorifying beheadings (because I have a mod of Sep slicing a guy's head off haha).  I can't tell you what I said back.

I always preferred this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLPFE-MpNWQ


« Last Edit: 2016-11-05 01:03:38 by DLPB »

Kaldarasha

  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 2224
  • Karma: 133
  • Prince of Model Editing
    • View Profile
Re: "FF7: Wife-beater Cid? Am I meant to like this guy?"
« Reply #5 on: 2016-11-05 14:05:12 »
Who is the victim? Cid, who has a reason to hate this woman? Or Shera, who don't tell the truth to Cid and took over the role of the personal slave of him?
Remember, this game comes from a culture where shera's behaviour was total in line with the social stand of the woman, which has yet totally changed. The relationship between Cid and Shera is in a way a critical mirror to the society.
Where will we be, if games shows only the happy sides of life and a hero needs to be the perfect innocent person? I preffer to smoke the next cigarette with Snake instead of playing with the next hero of light.

eXistenZe

  • Crazy poster
  • *
  • Posts: 218
  • Karma: 4
    • View Profile
Re: "FF7: Wife-beater Cid? Am I meant to like this guy?"
« Reply #6 on: 2016-11-05 22:56:19 »
This is a 97's game... So people from late 70's or early 80's played it mostly. We didn't pretend the world is full of perfect happy persons on facebook.

Also, I guess people from this generation know what fiction is and what reality is. People nowadays believe a big brother discussion in front of 20 cameras is genuine.
These games have stories you can follow like a book you read.
The first major picture from Cid is someone who blames Shera from ruining his dream. He doesn't hide it and doesn't lie about it.
Hell, if you had a major dream in your life (besides buying an iphone) like Cid had, and you believe someone blew it, wouldn't you curse her at every possible opportunity?

-Ric-

  • Crazy poster
  • *
  • Posts: 171
  • Karma: 1
  • .
    • View Profile
Re: "FF7: Wife-beater Cid? Am I meant to like this guy?"
« Reply #7 on: 2016-11-06 15:17:31 »
This is stupid. We're talking about a game that has a perverted old man picking one (out of 3) girl to have sex with, and who later on actually kidnaps 2 other girls to have sex with as well, a crazy psychopathic scientist who wants to force a girl (Aerith) to breed with a non-human being (Nanaki), a little girl abandoned by her "adoptive" father cause he's too busy fighting to save the planet and so on and on and on and whoever posted that is offended by Cid being VERBALLY (yes, only verbally) abusive to the one person who he blames for ruining his dream. I don't agree with DLPB on a lot of things but he summed it up perfectly.

A. He isn't a wife beater, because he doesn't beat his wife.
B. Shera isn't his wife.
C. This is a fictional story, so no one is actually doing anything.
D. The Snowflake Generation need to grow some balls and stop being so "offended" all the time.

Besides, it's just a game, it's not real, no one was actually verbally abused. These creepily sensitive people are just going around looking for random strawberries to be offended about. strawberries that is not even relevant to their or anyone's life.

You've shown over and over again that you're a sexist xenophobe, that can't handle anybody not agreeing with that viewpoint

Ah... those 2 majestic words that have been made mainstream by professionally offended people with no life experience nor common sense... At first it used to be amusing to see those terms being shoved in everybody's face by stupid people... Now it just makes me feel sorry for the state humanity is in.

Ah FML, why do I even bother with such nonsense lol.

Science Is Bigoted

  • Right Wing Safety Squads
  • Insane poster
  • *
  • Posts: 476
  • Karma: 7
  • I ♥ SCIENCE
    • View Profile
Re: "FF7: Wife-beater Cid? Am I meant to like this guy?"
« Reply #8 on: 2016-11-06 17:14:19 »
The other day, someone replied to a comment I made on YT accusing me of glorifying beheadings (because I have a mod of Sep slicing a guy's head off haha).  I can't tell you what I said back.
You have a video of that?

Obligatory:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQoJvI8XUa0

Alright well...  First off, DLPB... just... no.  Statements like "He verbally abuses her due to his belief she wrecked his dream for no good reason." make it sound like his behavior is justified... Which it isn't.  It's really that simple.  He's a piece of strawberries at the beginning of the game.  That's kind of the whole point.  His abuse of Shera is part of a broader storyline that culminates with that tank exploding and her having done the right thing.  He realizes that when the tank blows, and realizes that he's been a douche the whole time, that's the ferning point.  You can kick and scream all you want about "special little snowflakes" being unable to handle strawberries; but you're just being an idiot looking for things to kick and scream about.  You've shown over and over again that you're a sexist xenophobe, that can't handle anybody not agreeing with that viewpoint.  Fact of the matter is; the guy posting is right in that he isn't supposed to really like the guy (despite his misunderstandings that A) Shera is his wife, which is explicitly stated in that very scene he's talking about, and B) he's never shown to, or hinted to be, beat her), he just missed the part where it's part of a larger storyline.

tl;dr  You're both wrong.
Beating women is part of their culture, BIGOT!

edit

Quote
So, I'm currently playing through Final Fantasy 7 (I never got past disk 1 when I was a kid) and I'm finding it really interesting...

Basically, most of the dialogue dialogue in the game is ferning mental.

I've just met Cid, an engineer who wants to go into space, right? I meet his girlfriend, Shera.

Poor, poor, Shera.

I go back to their place. Cid storms through the door.

CID: <obscenity> Shera. What are you, blind!? We got gusts!! GET SOME TEA <obscenity>
SHERA: I...I'm sorry."

Cloud and the gang stand there, pretty awkwardly. "Really," he says, "don't mind us."

After essentially telling us to sit the fern down and drink out tea, he shouts "Damn, I'm pissed!"

Aeries asks if he's always like this. She's consumed by self-doubt. "It's my fault," she says. "I ruined his dream."

Flashback to Cid watching his wife work away at the rocket, telling her to get her ass in gear and that she "works like a snail."

Everything's getting prepared for the big rocket launch and Cid's ego-fuelled space exploration adventure. His wife couldn't get something finished in time. She's still working away while he's attempting to take off. Obviously, he's wondering what she's still doing down there, and tells her she's obviously going to be killed if she's in this area while the ship takes off.

Her response is pretty much "I get how much you're into this. I'm cool about dying"

But hey, guess who pushed the emergency engine shut down switch and aborted the mission, saving her life in the process? Good guy Cid.

And now for some reason, he's justified in treating and talking to his wife like strawberries?

Am I meant to like this character? Is this going to be PC for the FF7 remake? Is the vast majority of FF7 going to be suitable for a modern day audience or are they going to have to make a HUGE amount of editing to the story and text?

A better trolling opportunity is to use the Aeris/RedXIII "breeding" scene as evidence of anti-furry bigotry.  Or Barret Wallace as blackface minstrel show.

As weev indicates in his glorious poast at MPC, the best way to mobilize nerds is to provoke easily misled SJWs into attacking them by ironically positing SJW attacks on nerd media.

Quote from: weev
No community lived in more blissful of an ignorance than nerds. People too sperged out to spew anything of significance to anything outside of a text editor were the least likely to stumble into a career ending faux pas. The remainder that did frequently saw their missteps excused by the fact that they were obviously big f**king nerds. This was a problem because tactically, engineering types were the highest priority recruits for the coming conflict. Compounding this was the major enemy organizers being really smart. Valerie Aurora of the Ada Initiative, for example, grew up Scientologist and took a lot of lessons home from Sea Org. She never made herself a public actor except when it radiated professionalism. Her one major foray into spectacle was getting a degenerate sex worker's talk shut down at a hacker con, which only made her look spotlessly clean. She kept all the bad stuff in private, most of it arranging blackmail against tech people through the use of prostitutes.

I didn't want to confront actors like that as my opposition. They were careful and moved in the shadows. I needed to do what America did and create something that would shout itself to the world like thunder and herald the arrival of opposition movements.

This is where framing the dialectic comes in. Dialectic progression in abstract is always set, but if bullets are not flying yet it is easy to replace one central actor with another in people's minds, as long as the replacement is louder and gets more attention. I needed actors which were not funded by corporate shakedowns and thus were incentivized to lean towards spectacle and getting in the face of common people. I needed an enemy that would bring the terrors of cultural Marxism to their doorstep and catalyze their migration to the next phase of the dialectic.

I switched my racism from overt to absurd and spewed constant disinformation. I cried about the rise of fascism in America :gooncry: at Occupy Wall Street while running dialectic transformations on its intelligentsia and encouraging its worst actors to descend to the final conclusions of their ideologies. Nobody ever bothered to go far back and read my honest and heartfelt posts about racism. Liberals who would otherwise oppose me welcomed me into their circles, and I responded by f**king their friends and recruiting them into schemes that would turn them into unhireable crowdfunded feminist activists screeching at the top of their lungs in the most objectionable way ever-- all the while simultaneously bullying more ugly specimens into arriving at just the same point. I was still free to spew racial rhetoric all the time and it was accepted as fun and subversive by even the most die-hard anti-racists. Anyone who criticized me was the butt of a joke and to some extent that even remains true today, even as my real intent is laid bare. For this period I was the most free acting agent of white supremacy on the planet, and cultural transformation soon came after.

Turning mentally ill women into a salaried force incentivized to act as badly as possible towards disinterested nerds in public paid huge dividends. After a couple years gigantic reactionary movements of nerds were formed. I had enough pieces in play to use opportunistic media personalities riding the wave of this new attitude to remove one from play when it began destroying infrastructure deemed by my associates as too valuable (my repeated condolences to the Duck). Suddenly the problems I confronted became conscious problems of a much larger population. When you make your problems the problems of a huge culturally influential mob you will do well.

The cultural transformation on the Internet was palpable. So many I hear from today stumbled upon the truth of our world by laughing in disgust at someone I've f**ked, or keeping the greasy feminist paws off their pacifiers.

This transformation happened just in time for :trump:

I accomplished this on no budget. This took absolutely no resources besides my time. If I can do this, you can too.

Always remember, if your opposition has not raised a military you have an opportunity to help them redefine themselves in an advantageous way. Even if your enemy is smart enough to preempt your redefinition by injecting a louder actor, they've still brought themselves out of the shadows. Reactionary sentiment to your newly selected opposition will push people to the next phase of the dialectic. Always provoke reaction by enabling your selected opposition to be extremely effective against common people, but never against political elites.

As for the inverse, things you want to accomplish for your side to defend against this sort of subversion: you want your own extremists targeting elites (like big media and politics Jews to get them to scream about cartoon frog Twitter bullying and look like idiots) and never targeting the common man. Create concrete political entities and elect leadership early, and aim for the most conservative and least narcissistic party leaders you can find as fast as you can.

For a while I worried about describing my involvement with leftist movements and feminists out of fear that people would feel manipulated, but after letting some of the people I turned in on the joke it seems that this is a magic trick that only gets more magical when it is explained. Once you see the truth you won't be upset at how it was revealed to you.

Hail victory.

Gamergate was an entry point to the alt-right for a lot of young men who were wasting their lives on vidya and junk food.  The FF7 remake is another chance to stir up the neurotic Rachel Maddow types and have them deposit red pill suppositories into the trusting orifices of young men the world over.
« Last Edit: 2016-11-06 17:33:43 by Science Is Racist »

DLPB

  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 9099
  • Karma: 274
  • For I realized that God's a young man, too.
    • View Profile
Re: "FF7: Wife-beater Cid? Am I meant to like this guy?"
« Reply #9 on: 2016-11-06 17:25:05 »
hahahaha.  Yeah, if you want to be offended, there really is a ton of stuff other than the maniac non-wife harasser Cid.

Science Is Bigoted

  • Right Wing Safety Squads
  • Insane poster
  • *
  • Posts: 476
  • Karma: 7
  • I ♥ SCIENCE
    • View Profile
Re: "FF7: Wife-beater Cid? Am I meant to like this guy?"
« Reply #10 on: 2016-11-06 17:26:59 »
Seriously though, in what other ways is FF7 haram in THE CURRENT YEAR?


All Lucky Sevens!
« Last Edit: 2016-11-06 17:30:21 by Science Is Racist »

DLPB

  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 9099
  • Karma: 274
  • For I realized that God's a young man, too.
    • View Profile
Re: "FF7: Wife-beater Cid? Am I meant to like this guy?"
« Reply #11 on: 2016-11-06 18:06:33 »
NOoooooooooooooo I was supposed to save that for Reunion R05c!!!! What a total let down! I forgot.

jeffdamann

  • Freak
  • *
  • Posts: 737
  • Karma: 1
  • The ORIGINAL!
    • View Profile
Re: "FF7: Wife-beater Cid? Am I meant to like this guy?"
« Reply #12 on: 2016-11-07 02:21:42 »
I would have to disagree on the verbal abuse as well. Cid is a hot-tempered, very stressed, apricothole. Just because someone uses curse words or says minor derogatory remarks to someone doesnt make them verbally abusive.

I apologize for my incoming choice of words, but the cursing is neccessary to prove my point

Had he said something like "Goddamnit Shera, you ferning buttercup, you are so ferning stupid, you are a piece of strawberries. Scum on the bottom of my shoes is better than you you ugly whore." That would be more in line with verbal abuse.

What I hear from Cid is once again, not verbal abuse. It indicates stress, and his dislike for what happened with Shera, but I feel this is just the way Cid talks. Im sure he would curse just as much in normal conversation with anyone.

DLPB

  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 9099
  • Karma: 274
  • For I realized that God's a young man, too.
    • View Profile
Re: "FF7: Wife-beater Cid? Am I meant to like this guy?"
« Reply #13 on: 2016-11-07 02:36:54 »
I'd still say he was a bully and verbally abusive.  But here's the thing: It's realistic. This does happen. And Shera stays with him through guilt. She could leave at any time.

hian

  • Crazy poster
  • *
  • Posts: 126
  • Karma: 6
    • View Profile
Re: "FF7: Wife-beater Cid? Am I meant to like this guy?"
« Reply #14 on: 2016-11-07 10:15:16 »
What does it fetching matter? Even if Cid was everything the original poster thinks he is, that's still a moot fetching point. People like that exist in the real world. Why for god's sake, should they not exist in stories?
You're not supposed to like Cid for being the way he is, and regardless of author's intent here - whether you do or not, is on you.
Getting stuck on surface level reactionary BS like that when engaging with art and media is a one-way ticket to coo-coo land.

People in stories, like in the real world, have flaws. If you expect every character in a story to be exemplary moral paragons of the 1st order, then not only is the story for you probably not written yet, even if it were, it would be the most boring and pointless story ever.

DLPB

  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 9099
  • Karma: 274
  • For I realized that God's a young man, too.
    • View Profile
Re: "FF7: Wife-beater Cid? Am I meant to like this guy?"
« Reply #15 on: 2016-11-07 20:19:35 »
The original poster also clearly hasn't watched Game or Thrones - or any other unapologetic story :P  God only knows what they'd think of that if FF7 sets them off haha.

Science Is Bigoted

  • Right Wing Safety Squads
  • Insane poster
  • *
  • Posts: 476
  • Karma: 7
  • I ♥ SCIENCE
    • View Profile
Re: "FF7: Wife-beater Cid? Am I meant to like this guy?"
« Reply #16 on: 2016-11-07 23:30:13 »
I was going to crush all your feeble poasts, but I started seeing weird lights after planking.  I think I was holding my breath during leg press, I've had a headache since then.  It will wait until tomorrow.

tl;dr

Now's not the time for fear, that comes later.

gjoerulv

  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 1107
  • Karma: 33
  • me
    • View Profile
    • My Youtube
Re: "FF7: Wife-beater Cid? Am I meant to like this guy?"
« Reply #17 on: 2016-11-08 19:50:40 »
This is back when square knew how to write characters. No wonder today's self-proclaimed warriors of social justice find it offensive: It actually somewhat resembles reality.

DLPB

  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 9099
  • Karma: 274
  • For I realized that God's a young man, too.
    • View Profile
Re: "FF7: Wife-beater Cid? Am I meant to like this guy?"
« Reply #18 on: 2016-11-08 20:04:05 »
This is back when square knew how to write characters. No wonder today's self-proclaimed warriors of social justice find it offensive: It actually somewhat resembles reality.

Haha! Today, the story would be Cid as an old, senile, "redneck"—a caricature who goes on about the "good old days" when women were "in their place". Shera would be the pilot as well as a scientist. And she would be the one who abandoned this loathsome, misogynist racist. Cid would be a one line cliche factory. When the rocket failed "That's what happens when you put a woman in charge". When the train crashed "That's what happens when you let a woman drive". And when Holy failed "I told you we should have killed that damn tribe Red XIII came from. Those sand worshipping fools have surely doomed us."


Science Is Bigoted

  • Right Wing Safety Squads
  • Insane poster
  • *
  • Posts: 476
  • Karma: 7
  • I ♥ SCIENCE
    • View Profile
Re: "FF7: Wife-beater Cid? Am I meant to like this guy?"
« Reply #19 on: 2016-11-09 23:11:02 »
It would be like the Star Wars movie, where the petite white female character can out-perform every other character in the story despite lacking training, muscle mass, and experience with weapons.  She will win solely on the power of her woke-ness.