Author Topic: FF10 for PC...or not?  (Read 8007 times)

sanjiyan

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FF10 for PC...or not?
« on: 2003-01-10 19:53:00 »
I had been surfing and found this article that quotes Square at E3 2001.

(edited to include the link, oops ^^;)

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/094/094861p1.html

Does this mean SquareSoft is going to eventually release FF 10 for the PC? I sent an e-mail to IGN but I doubt they will respond.

Opinions? Wishes? Proof? Follow it up here.

--Sir Sanjiyan
"Jambo" - Ayerton,  Nadia - The Secret of Blue Water

Aaron

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« Reply #1 on: 2003-01-10 20:39:58 »
Pretty old news.  I think that Square was originally going to release FFX to PC but they abandoned the project.  (They probably got way more sells for PSX FF7-8 than the PC version, but hey, I only bought the PC ones :P)

If they ever do release it, I'll probably get it.  I have FF1-9 on my PC and I have yet to buy a PSX or PS2 :P

Kendrilian

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« Reply #2 on: 2003-01-10 22:00:47 »
I won't.

Kendrilian :wicked:

Joey

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« Reply #3 on: 2003-01-13 09:11:56 »
Quote from: Aaron
Pretty old news.  I think that Square was originally going to release FFX to PC but they abandoned the project.  (They probably got way more sells for PSX FF7-8 than the PC version, but hey, I only bought the PC ones :P)

If they ever do release it, I'll probably get it.  I have FF1-9 on my PC and I have yet to buy a PSX or PS2 :P


True. It was abandoned because of the bugs and diffrence between PC and PS2 code.

Alhexx

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« Reply #4 on: 2003-01-13 15:42:19 »
I hate those lame game programmers ... bug are there to solve them ...  :evil:

 - Alhexx

Cyberman

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« Reply #5 on: 2003-01-13 21:37:45 »
Well Bugs are the nature of programing these days.
Although I would like to say all my programs are bug free, they aren't ;)

What might eliminate more bugs in games though isn't necessarily using a standard GUI or anything such as that.  Most bugs in games are of the following characteristics: they tried to do something they didn't realize would be so complicated.  Good quality software requires several 'series' of iterations between developement teams etc.  It also requires careful code reviews. MOST bugs are just bad programing habits.

Cyb
I know because I have them ;)

Cyberman

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« Reply #6 on: 2003-01-13 21:37:45 »
Well Bugs are the nature of programing these days.
Although I would like to say all my programs are bug free, they aren't ;)

What might eliminate more bugs in games though isn't necessarily using a standard GUI or anything such as that.  Most bugs in games are of the following characteristics: they tried to do something they didn't realize would be so complicated.  Good quality software requires several 'series' of iterations between developement teams etc.  It also requires careful code reviews. MOST bugs are just bad programing habits.

Cyb
I know because I have them ;)

Sir Canealot

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« Reply #7 on: 2003-01-14 09:54:42 »
Joey: Stfu....

Wtf does diffrence between the 2 codes have to do with the price of fish? From Ps2-PC they'd adapt the code, probebly changeing a hell of a lot of it to go from Ps2-Pc. Why would there bugs and diffrences? It sounds like Square tried to get FFX working on a Pc by putting it into the Pc Dvd try and hoping it worked by the way your explaining it.
Any way. That FFXI teaser works fine...

Cyberman

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« Reply #8 on: 2003-01-14 16:48:16 »
Quote

Sir Canealot
Wtf does diffrence between the 2 codes have to do with the price of fish? From Ps2-PC they'd adapt the code, probebly changeing a hell of a lot of it to go from Ps2-Pc. Why would there bugs and diffrences? It sounds like Square tried to get FFX working on a Pc by putting it into the Pc Dvd try and hoping it worked by the way your explaining it.
Any way. That FFXI teaser works fine...

Have you ever tried porting existing code? It's not just some plug this and that and cut and paste sort of job.  It's a REAL pain, ussually you have to rewrite major portions of code. Just because you have some code in C or C++ doesn't mean it will work on another platform by compiling it with a different compilor.  Adapting CODE introduces a LOT new bugs ussually, because what you did on one platform may not work the exact same way on another, (or should I say most likely won't).
As for the later, no idea, I was refering to Alhexx comment on game programers really.
I think the economics of porting FF-X to the PC probably didn't warrent them to do it.  They have likely 2 or 3 years invested in FF-X but they will need to invest another year into the PC release but if fortunate less.  The big issue is how much they would gain by it.  FFX is pretty short by square standards of RPG play.

Cyb

Sir Canealot

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« Reply #9 on: 2003-01-14 17:54:03 »
Ugh dont support Joey.

.... you.

Nori

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GTA!
« Reply #10 on: 2003-01-14 20:41:21 »
Hints: Got Money? (nope...)
Final Fantasy Movie The Spirits Within (what movie...)
Square Enix (because...)

So anyone would like to buy Grand Theft Auto: Final Fantasy?

Rubicant

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« Reply #11 on: 2003-01-14 22:36:47 »
It's all a scam. First, they get you hooked on FF7 for the ps1. Then, they introduce the ps2, and have FFX come out on it right on the spot. I don't think they're going to make a pc version, at all, because they're making money already for those suckers who buy ps2's for their new games.  The PC version of FF7 and FF8 made WAY less money than the ps1 versions did, so seriously, think of it from the marketer's point of view. Even though it would be morally right, and generally nice to release the newer FF's on the PC, it's not gonna happen. Why? It's because all these game companies are into is money. Money money MONEY!!!

[ALSO]
Oh, sorry if I offended anyone by calling those who purchase ps2's "suckers". It's probably a good game system, but I find more practical use with a computer that has games.

KojiroTakenashi

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« Reply #12 on: 2003-01-15 00:50:54 »
Lol.

Square's Merger is proof they want to escape Sony's clutches. By doing so, they aren't violating any of thier contracts, as well as voiding the ones they currently have with Sony at the same time!

I'm almost certain "financial reasons" are a half-excuse. The only financial reasons I can see it Sony is leeching the life from them, and they're killing themselves developing for only one platform.

Cyberman

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« Reply #13 on: 2003-01-15 20:39:50 »
Well not diverge too much from the topic but I think Square and Enix are facing the reults of several years of 'economic' freedom and lack of focus.  Games are what they sell and have been working on for a long time 15 years?  Movies are a different animal all together, however there games have become more movies than games.  Lots of glitz but the actual meat of the game is waning. FFX is really a decent game but not a BIG one.  In a market of mediocrity (soulreaver 2 blood omen 2 ) with dozens of bad software being released, .. I suppose it will be about the same length of time before another FF7 type release will be on the PS2 from square or Enix.  

The biggest thing needed is not money, but VISION.  Vision or having a concept that is compelling is hard to get these days with instant gratification in everything including program developement.  Bottom line is RPG's are stories, they need to be as good as a novel with the interactive twist.

Square has done OK recently but I think they could do better.

Topic now, FFX PC would probably be a break even deal. I think they are making money off FF8 PC and FF7 PC because they are still in demand.

Cyb

Sir Canealot

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« Reply #14 on: 2003-01-16 07:13:03 »
Quote from: Cyberman
(soulreaver 2 blood omen 2 )


What was that pointless poke at Legacy of Kain? Legacy of Kain ownz you for free, and its the only thing that comes even close to owning FFVII in terms of depth and story line. Allthough I admit the gameplay in BO2 was a bit... average.

Giffen1

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« Reply #15 on: 2003-01-16 09:55:57 »
Quote
The biggest thing needed is not money, but VISION.  Vision or having a concept that is compelling is hard to get these days with instant gratification in everything including program developement.  Bottom line is RPG's are stories, they need to be as good as a novel with the interactive twist.

Square has done OK recently but I think they could do better.


AMEN. Bruder. Glitz is one thing...having come up with an actual good story is another.

good RPG storytelling seems to be having quite a dry spell lately.

P.S. I actually liked both Soul Reaver games (having not played the original Blood Omen) an am eagerly awaiting the next installment...i hated Blood Omen 2 though...the graphics sucked and so did the story...to depressing for me.

Joey

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« Reply #16 on: 2003-01-16 10:55:59 »
I'm sure Mr. Hirobu has lots of Ideas.

Quote from: Sir Canealot

Joey: Stfu....

Wtf does diffrence between the 2 codes have to do with the price of fish? From Ps2-PC they'd adapt the code, probebly changeing a hell of a lot of it to go from Ps2-Pc. Why would there bugs and diffrences? It sounds like Square tried to get FFX working on a Pc by putting it into the Pc Dvd try and hoping it worked by the way your explaining it.
Any way. That FFXI teaser works fine...


The cult of Sony ahs just released the new Anti-PC virus. It's first victim is Sir Canealot.

Sir Canealot, If you have not do game programming before, I suggest you apply with sony. I know this things because I have worked in a game design company before.

If that's the case you put it, then PCs can run PS games without emulators but they cant. PS and PS2 DOES NOT use C++, just a language similar to that. Why? because as you apply with sony to make games, they will give u a CD with the pS/PS2 emulator, compiler, converters and source code. The programs won't run on the hard drive.

Snub and Scoff and Bash me if you want. This is the truth, and if you Sony-Zombies want to kill me, go ahead.

Qhimm

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« Reply #17 on: 2003-01-16 11:08:41 »
No Joey, you're right. PS and PS2 does not use C++, because they're fricking programming languages. However, PS2 game programmers use C (and sometimes C++ too). The PS2 runs machine code, which is what any compiler spits out.

The reason you need porting is not the language the code is written in, it's the hardware and OS you're going to run it on. Game consoles have highly optimized and hardware routines easily accessible for speed, Windows doesn't. You usually solve this by programming a subsystem which will translate the PS2 hardware-specific code with Windows equivalents, or by reprogramming the hardware-specific sections altogether.

The reason FFX hasn't been ported yet is because it was optimized for PS2 to begin with, which means it would require tons of work to translate everything back into generic code, which could then be translated to PC code. Compare this to FF8, which was actually being developed for both platforms from the start. The work involved with porting FF8 could be solved simply by programming a subsystem which translates some of the PSX-specific code on the fly. FF7, on the other hand, required extensive reprogramming.

Oh, and Joey. Shut up about your game design experience, no one here believes you -- which could have something to do with the utter nonsense you spew out on a semi-regular basis.

Lord Kane

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« Reply #18 on: 2003-01-16 13:03:29 »
>The reason FFX hasn't been ported yet is because it was optimized for PS2 to begin with, which means it would require tons of work to translate everything back into generic code, which could then be translated to PC code. Compare this to FF8, which was actually being developed for both platforms from the start

Add to that the fact that PSX and PC have much more in common than PS2 and PC.
The PS2 has the main CPU, The graphics chip, and a pair of vector units, hideous amounts of memory bandwidth, but very little actual memory.
If the game could be directly ported to the PC (ignoring the difficulties with hardware specific calls and features not on the PC, etc....) It'd run at a snails pace. Just one of the reasons for this is that textures would continualy be forced in and out of graphics memory accross a bus that simply can't handle that kind of strain. Add to that the fact that the PS2 does most of it's special effects in software as the CPU and vector units are so powerfull (having been designed specificaly for gaming), even the fastest IBM machine would slow to a crawl as stuff like framebuffer access and manipulation and full screen anti aliasing all get done in software.

The PS2 is a games machine, and Sony designed it from the ground up like that. It's not a developer friendly platform, but if used correctly, it could probably outdo an X-Box.
The PC was designed as an office machine. It can now run games, but not nearly as efficiently as the GC or PS2

Rubicant

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« Reply #19 on: 2003-01-16 15:59:38 »
Quote from: Qhimm
Oh, and Joey. Shut up about your game design experience, no one here believes you -- which could have something to do with the utter nonsense you spew out on a semi-regular basis.


Yeah, Qhimm is right about that.  If you wrote a note saying that you were trapped on a desert island inhabited by man-eating chickens, I probably would crumple up the note and fall into an unstoppable period of laughter. Mr. "FF8 is a FF7 remake", ha! If you're foolish enough to lie to prove some stupid point, then there is really no reason to make people notice the useless point unless it is actually meaningful. I mean..come on. Dignity man, what about your dignity?!?!

Ok, screw you guys if my writing sucks. I just got done typing a 12-page story, and I only got 2 hours of sleep. Now, where's my ass-kicking hat?

Aaron

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« Reply #20 on: 2003-01-16 16:17:21 »
PLEASE don't turn this into a Joey-bashing thread.  As much as he may deserve it.

FFX could indeed be done to run on today's computers.  Just, the graphics engine and some other stuff would need to be entirely redone because, of course, the PC and the PS2 work way different.  This will also prove to make PS2 emulation rather difficult, 'cause you're gonna need to be able to match the PS2's monster memory bandwidth.

Jedimark

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« Reply #21 on: 2003-01-16 16:46:33 »
Awww it's been a long time since the last Joey Basing thread...

Threesixty

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« Reply #22 on: 2003-01-17 03:26:27 »
Quote from: Cyberman

Topic now, FFX PC would probably be a break even deal. I think they are making money off FF8 PC and FF7 PC because they are still in demand.
Cyb



Hmm... I know I can't find FF7 PC for sale, online or offline, and I haven't seen FF8 PC, for sale anywhere, for over a year. I really doubt Square is making any money, off of the PC versions, right now.

Smurgen

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« Reply #23 on: 2003-01-17 10:14:26 »
We need a PC version! If anything..so we could change the data files and have Tidus say "I like poop" !

Sir Canealot

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« Reply #24 on: 2003-01-17 10:25:17 »
Quote from: Threesixty
Quote from: Cyberman

Topic now, FFX PC would probably be a break even deal. I think they are making money off FF8 PC and FF7 PC because they are still in demand.
Cyb



Hmm... I know I can't find FF7 PC for sale, online or offline, and I haven't seen FF8 PC, for sale anywhere, for over a year. I really doubt Square is making any money, off of the PC versions, right now.


Ebay I guess.... I need to drag another copy of Origenal FFVII Pc to replace my battered disks before they get as rare as Namco Arcade Sticks (a arcade stick made for the Psx in 96. Still the best arcade stick you can buy for the Psx/Ps2. VERY rare, you can basically only find them on ebay nowadays)...