Author Topic: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.2 & v1.0)  (Read 85703 times)

goodmorninpluto

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #100 on: 2018-11-15 04:41:19 »
I think you already provided a nice incentive to spend money with Odyne shop. It is the most reliable way to quickly get lvl2 spells late disk-1 and lvl3 spells late disk-2 (with Tonberry's Familiar). Monsters in my lvl range still provides only lvl2 spells, scouting draw points around the world takes time and with reduced amount of items you get via Card Mod you can't easily stock up everyone with 100 of every spell. So this shop helps a lot and is the reason I run with 0 gil most of the time :)
Btw, is the Double draw point in Library ever going to refill?

Callisto

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #101 on: 2018-11-15 05:12:55 »
Ok, I might scrap the SeeD salary rebalance for v1.0.9 then. Still haven't found what needs to be changed for this anyway, and keep trying without any real success can be frustrating.

The Double Draw Point in the Library never refills to keep the early-game balance in check, but now that you say it, I think it could be made available again from a later point in the game onwards. If you need a source for Double spells right now, I would recommend the Grendel encounter in the forest near Galbadia Garden (needs LV Up though, as this Grendel's natural level caps at 12 or 13 I think).

Divatox

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #102 on: 2018-11-15 23:09:35 »
awesome mod <3
quick question, in some bosses you literally mod the AI? using some program?

Callisto

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #103 on: 2018-11-16 05:41:42 »
You can safely change most bosses' AI using the Ifrit enemy editor custom version JWP made a while back. Just be careful when editing enemies that appear alongside others, as this can lead to the known issues (broken graphics in battles, softlocks etc). In such cases, you can still make smaller changes to an enemy's AI by opening the respective c0m.dat files with a hex editor. For example, when searching for the byte sequence  02 02 03, you are often directly at the beginning of the AI section (this is the code that makes most enemies skip their turns with a probability of 33%), which is really helpful if you just want to change some numbers using the hex editor, without fundamentally changing the AI.

So all in all, I'm just using Ifrit and hex editor where necessary. I don't know of any other program that change enemy AI. But who knows, maybe Ifrit gets another update some time in the future.

Nikkolas

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #104 on: 2018-11-17 02:23:43 »
Seifer is like my favorite character in this game and it's total BS that the final boss fight with him isn't a real fight at all if you got Odin.

Is getting Odin on Disk 4 viable in this mod so Seifer can be a real challenge and have a good climactic finish for his role in the story?

Callisto

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #105 on: 2018-11-17 04:29:43 »
Getting Odin before disc 4 in the mod is not more worthwhile than it is in vanilla. In fact, rather the opposite, as Triple has been removed from his Draw list (he still has the Luck-J-Scroll though). So unless you want him to assist you in battle, you can just ignore and get him later to ensure he doesn't disrupt the Seifer fight.

Now that you mention it, I think it would be a good idea to prolong the time it takes to make Gilgamesh appear, as the span was really short in the original version, making the battle rather pointless indeed. Would be also nice to have an option to temporarily disable Odin and Gilgamesh once you have them, as they often show up when you don't need them. Maybe I can come up with something for the next update, to increase the incentive to actually get these two GF. During my latest playthroughs, I got neither of them to be honest..

Nikkolas

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #106 on: 2018-11-19 06:28:28 »
Getting Odin before disc 4 in the mod is not more worthwhile than it is in vanilla. In fact, rather the opposite, as Triple has been removed from his Draw list (he still has the Luck-J-Scroll though). So unless you want him to assist you in battle, you can just ignore and get him later to ensure he doesn't disrupt the Seifer fight.

Now that you mention it, I think it would be a good idea to prolong the time it takes to make Gilgamesh appear, as the span was really short in the original version, making the battle rather pointless indeed. Would be also nice to have an option to temporarily disable Odin and Gilgamesh once you have them, as they often show up when you don't need them. Maybe I can come up with something for the next update, to increase the incentive to actually get these two GF. During my latest playthroughs, I got neither of them to be honest..

Sounds good! Thanks.

One more quick question, you mentioned additional sidequests. I've kinda just been blazing through the game apart from some Triple Triad and minor battle grinding. Are there rewards for looking about when I get control of the Garden? I just beat NORG where I'm at.


Callisto

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #107 on: 2018-11-19 08:26:30 »
In Fisherman's Horizon, you can get a reward for reuniting the Cafeteria Lady's son with his mother, but the time frame for making him appear near the station is short (only while the place is in shambles after the BGH251F2 battle) and you need to have exhausted the Cafeteria Lady's dialogue in Balamb Garden during disc 1 if I remember correctly. If this prerequistite has been met, the safest way of getting the item is talking to Dobe right after the boss fight, leave the area and re-enter. The Cafeteria Lady's son should be there then (until the concert).

I would also recommend doing the Master Fisherman quest for a heavily improved reward (more items + major boost to SeeD rank), as well as collecting the items at Grease Monkey's house after straying away from the concert preparations as Irvine. In Timber, you now get something for rescuing the girl from the train at the station and the man in front of the Timber Maniacs building gives a different reward if the player cheered him up during disc 1. Winhill and Chocobo Forests are worth checking out too.

It's not that much yet, but more is coming soon.
« Last Edit: 2018-11-19 08:28:04 by Callisto »

Nikkolas

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #108 on: 2018-11-20 01:10:06 »
In Fisherman's Horizon, you can get a reward for reuniting the Cafeteria Lady's son with his mother, but the time frame for making him appear near the station is short (only while the place is in shambles after the BGH251F2 battle) and you need to have exhausted the Cafeteria Lady's dialogue in Balamb Garden during disc 1 if I remember correctly. If this prerequistite has been met, the safest way of getting the item is talking to Dobe right after the boss fight, leave the area and re-enter. The Cafeteria Lady's son should be there then (until the concert).

I would also recommend doing the Master Fisherman quest for a heavily improved reward (more items + major boost to SeeD rank), as well as collecting the items at Grease Monkey's house after straying away from the concert preparations as Irvine. In Timber, you now get something for rescuing the girl from the train at the station and the man in front of the Timber Maniacs building gives a different reward if the player cheered him up during disc 1. Winhill and Chocobo Forests are worth checking out too.

It's not that much yet, but more is coming soon.

That's still plenty. Very awesome, thank you.

eXistenZe

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #109 on: 2018-11-20 15:47:02 »
Hey there.
I'm guessing this and KLITLIKA'S MOD are incompatible, right?

Callisto

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #110 on: 2018-11-20 17:16:39 »
Yes, having both mods installed at the same time is not possible, as they edit the same files (battle.fs, main.fs etc - you can only have one of these in your data folder at the same time). If you wanted a combination of both, you'd have to decide which features you'd like to see in each mod that the other doesn't have, and make file edits manually.

eXistenZe

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #111 on: 2018-11-20 21:07:53 »
This one caught my eye.
I wonder if there is a full sidequest list.
Most original game made sidequests useless (except GFs amd weapons), so it's interesting to have a list.

Callisto

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #112 on: 2018-11-21 05:46:39 »
Ok, I'll provide a list that has detailed information on sidequests right after the next update, which will be at the end of the week if everything goes according to plan (some new ones will be added for it, so not much point in doing it right now).

Percival

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #113 on: 2018-11-21 16:05:16 »
This mod looks great! I have been working on my own mod, with the aim of making the game more balanced but not hardcore. It looks as though you beat me to the punch. I am exited to play this!

One question, does this mod change any of the story or dialogue? I thought I read that you fixed some typos.
« Last Edit: 2018-11-21 16:10:57 by Percival »

Callisto

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #114 on: 2018-11-22 05:00:57 »
There are no fundamental story or dialogue alterations planned at the moment, but I've been thinking of some script changes that make the game more faithful to the original Japanese version (such as changing Edea's speech during the Deling City parade, fixing Samantha Soul mistranslation or adding back other things that were lost in translation). The currently corrected typos refer to simple spelling errors like "Disolving Acid", an attack used by Malboro, or spacing mistakes between words (which are quite common), so nothing too major.

As for the mod in general, I think there are still quite some kinks that need to be ironed out, but are difficult to deal with due to how the game is programmed. For example, I'm still quite disappointed with what can be done to weapon customization at most - I'd wish there was more than just bonuses to Strength, Hit and crit rate to make them stand out more. Besides that, the late-game would really benefit from a Double Cut Ability, which is likely hard to implement, and of course, the game needs more different enemies.. Nevertheless, I am quite satisfied with what I have been able to accomplish with this mod so far, but there's still room for improvement and things you could do differently compared to this mod (at least it appears to me that Klit's mod is quite different from this one, even though they share the same goals), so better don't give up on your own :)

eXistenZe

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #115 on: 2018-11-23 21:41:21 »
Just a thought. Even as a rebalance, this mod still makes the game extremely easy. Enemies have low hp and low vit and spr.
What could help:
- double all enemies HP, increase def and spr, but also double exp and HP. Longer and more difficult battles, but worth the time.
- recomend players to never import chocobo world items. Instead give some nice items as sidequests rewards.

Callisto

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #116 on: 2018-11-23 22:29:22 »
How far are you in? Applying your suggestions to every single enemy would make some of them too strong, so it would be helpful if you mentioned specific enemies or battles you thought were too easy. I'll see what I can do then.

As for Chocobo World, yeah, I could advise against playing it, but most players who look for a challenge probably pass on it automatically anyway. Still, I could change the items that can be found through it to prevent abuse. Thanks for reminding.

Percival

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #117 on: 2018-11-24 03:54:14 »
There are no fundamental story or dialogue alterations planned at the moment, but I've been thinking of some script changes that make the game more faithful to the original Japanese version (such as changing Edea's speech during the Deling City parade, fixing Samantha Soul mistranslation or adding back other things that were lost in translation). The currently corrected typos refer to simple spelling errors like "Disolving Acid", an attack used by Malboro, or spacing mistakes between words (which are quite common), so nothing too major.

As for the mod in general, I think there are still quite some kinks that need to be ironed out, but are difficult to deal with due to how the game is programmed. For example, I'm still quite disappointed with what can be done to weapon customization at most - I'd wish there was more than just bonuses to Strength, Hit and crit rate to make them stand out more. Besides that, the late-game would really benefit from a Double Cut Ability, which is likely hard to implement, and of course, the game needs more different enemies.. Nevertheless, I am quite satisfied with what I have been able to accomplish with this mod so far, but there's still room for improvement and things you could do differently compared to this mod (at least it appears to me that Klit's mod is quite different from this one, even though they share the same goals), so better don't give up on your own :)

  Thanks for the encouragement! I agree about the weapon limitations. I found the most value in altering the GF's (abilities and attacks), since they are actually the primary mechanic in the game.

  I love the creativity in Klit's mod, but I was also moving in the other direction. It made more sense to me to try to make the 6 main characters a bit weaker, rather than make every enemy stronger. For example, the first thing I did was lower the stat bonuses for almost all junctioned magic.
« Last Edit: 2018-11-24 04:01:13 by Percival »

eXistenZe

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #118 on: 2018-11-24 13:27:04 »
Not that far in. Just past Ifrit cave. Normal enemies are a breeze, not a single challenge in them. Bats with sleep are interesting, but not enough. Ifrit itself was more challenging (loved fira and the new all attack), but with an infinite source for cure (both stock and draw), you can just kill it in one minute the same.
After str-J, enemies are still OHKO.
Overall I like the mod, I will definitely play it all the way and report, but it still feels it need some kick (force the use of scan to see vulnerabilities cause everything else does little damage for example).
Another thing I never liked is the 0 exp from bosses. It makes the game all about grinding. Bosses are supposed to be a major push up to npcs, but FF8 only gives AP and some items. Is this changeable?

[Edit]
Perhaps I spoke too soon... Difficulty just tripled on the way to Dollet tower. Red galbadian soldier hitting for 300 and Anacondaur for 450 per squeeze is interesting, specially at those two screens when Seifer leaves.
« Last Edit: 2018-11-24 14:50:55 by eXistenZe »

Kraust

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #119 on: 2018-11-25 00:50:40 »
Played up to Deling City, no real issues except for feeling like the Eshtar Soliders fights at the end of Laguna Sequence #2 was a bit overtuned, I finished it with pure RNG, having Ward and Laguna fire off both of the Limit Breaks at the end.

goodmorninpluto

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #120 on: 2018-11-25 06:48:15 »
You need to play further than that to really judge the difficulty of this mod :)
Story content is challenging but not unfair, it still requires preparation and knowledge of the game systems and enemies weakness.
Optional battles are much harder, so perhaps you will enjoy them more.
Disc 2 and onwards really shines in that regard, because you learn new useful abilities and can approach the battle in many ways.

eXistenZe

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #121 on: 2018-11-25 11:25:49 »
What optional battles? The GFs and weapons?

Kraust

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #122 on: 2018-11-25 13:21:19 »
You need to play further than that to really judge the difficulty of this mod :)
Story content is challenging but not unfair, it still requires preparation and knowledge of the game systems and enemies weakness.
Optional battles are much harder, so perhaps you will enjoy them more.
Disc 2 and onwards really shines in that regard, because you learn new useful abilities and can approach the battle in many ways.

I'm still playing, I just stopped for the night.

Finished Disk 1 and Seifer/Edea were insane. I could not beat Seifer unless I did Haste->Protect->Shell->Regen->Attackx4 and Edea seems to have way too much HP. Also her fight can easily be cheesed by spamming Carbuncle as the AI seems to prioritize Dispel if anyone has Reflect.
« Last Edit: 2018-11-25 17:24:54 by Kraust »

Callisto

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #123 on: 2018-11-26 09:52:07 »
Thank you for all the feedback everyone. I'll take it into consideration, which is why finalizing v1.0.9 needs a few days more than expected.

Quote from: eXistenZe
Another thing I never liked is the 0 exp from bosses. It makes the game all about grinding. Bosses are supposed to be a major push up to npcs, but FF8 only gives AP and some items. Is this changeable?

Yes, it is changeable. The reason the 0 exp from bosses is still in is to generally allow runs at characters' initial level, for those who look for a tougher challenge (such as Zara9), but I think as long as the amount of exp given is moderate, it should be fine. There's also that one achievement you can get for finishing the game on Squall's initial level, which I would like to keep doable for the mod. But then again, you could still get it by just killing off or petrifying Squall before beating a boss.. Well, I'll think about it.

eXistenZe

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
« Reply #124 on: 2018-11-26 21:33:05 »
Just got killed by Diablos. Graviga + 3 fast stabs did not allow me to even blink :(
Bad luck I guess.
Second time was a charm.
Stop is an interesting concept, but then ultra cure always removes it (intended?).