Author Topic: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)  (Read 55400 times)

Nesouk

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #375 on: 2019-10-14 16:56:28 »
For Tornado and Quake well I did encounter Abyss Worm but when I mugged him he gave me a Mystery Fluid so I thought Windmill were removes or high Level only XD, but I wasn't seeking for Tornado and Quake, disc 2 was easy enough without these so I think it would have just been overkill ^^

For Zell's Duel I kinda want to wait and see how it perform on boss with higher VIT later especially now that I unlocked all his finisher would like to see if using them is worth it, also for Seifer that's honnestly was just lucky I got 7.33 seconds 2 time in the row of course that ended up being brutal for him. Also I'm not always to perform at his best, didn't mention it but I don't know if it's just personnal issue but sometime I got some weird lag input on Zell's Limit Break which of course mess up my input and timing this happen often and it's annoying. And also now that I got meant to use Triple, Angel Wing and more of Quistis's blue I would like to see how Duel performs compare to these would need a good test subject for that.

By the way I kinda have mix feeling about Linoa's Angel Wing, from what I test she can use Ultima, Flare, Meteor, Holy, Bio, Pain, Firaga, Blizzaga, Thundaga and Demi and her selection don't depend of what is in her inventory, I guess you did that for avoid the infamous Angel Wing Meteor tactics, but I kind of feel the Limit Break isn't as practical since you have no more control on it basically it's impossible to set her for exploit elemental weakness or avoid elemental resistance, also Demi is waste of turn if she uses it on something immune to it.

As for Aura Stones from Propagator I actually just got lucky and get 2 Aura Stones in the row on my 2 first fights against the Purple one since then I didn't get any so that was just pure luck on my side, but I'm gonna farm them anyway theyr are so easy to kill might as well finish teaching my GF's ability as much as I can with them ^^.

EDIT : Well since Jumbo Cactuar currently can't act I guess I can use him for Damage testing, he is good cause he has quite an high Vit which is what I was seeking for Zell's Duel (Jumbo Cactuar is perfect as he has so much Vit that even Critical Dolphin Blow doesn't do as much Damage as a normal Meteor Strike XD) and he has an elemental weakness so I tested various thing with the following stats :

-Squall : 162 Str, 100 Water to Ele Atk
-Zell : 167 Str
-Rinoa : 168 Mgi
-Quistis : 150 Mgi
-Irvine : 137 Str and 89 Luck

And so the results :

-Zell's Duel with 9.33 seconds : 38353 (22 hits)
-Zell's Duel with 5.66 seconds : 20999 (14 hits)
-Zell's Duel with 7.66 seconds : 29596 (16 hits)
-Zell's Duel with 3.66 seconds : 15791 (9 hits)

-Rinoa's Triple Water with 168 Mgi : 17700-19800

-Quistis's Aqua Breath : 14000-19000
-Quistis's Homing Laser : 7600-18000

-Irvine's AP Shot : around 1600 per shot 3200 with Crit so 3200 up to 9600 Crit excluded (theorically could reach around 19200)
-Irvine's Quick Shot : average of 260 (520 with Crit) per shot manage to shot 31 Ammos at best (maybe could shot more ammo) so 8060
-Irvine's Canister Shot : around 1200 per shot (2400 with Crit) so up to 6800 crit excluded (PS : Seems to have a far higher Crit Rate than AP Shot)
-Irvine's Pulse Ammo : Around 1500 per shot so 9000 damage at best (double with Crit)

-Squall with Darkside : 7000-8000
-Squall's Renzokuken : Around 1200 per successfull hit meaning 8400 on Jumbo Cactuar (fix sequence of 7 hits), Fated Circle does around 3700

OK so for observation out of this :

Zell's Duel is the big one, the damage vary depending of the number of Critical and especially which moves crit, as of now I think the biggest factor here is Meteor strike that move alone can up to 5000 if it Crit that almost the double of a Dolphin Blow's crit, the 9.33's 22 hits chain included 5 Meteor Strike 3 of them were crit these 5 almost deal half of the total damage so I can imagine if we were to find a loop that include more Meteor Strike (the loop I'm using currently include only 2 Meteor Strikes) by the way the loop I'm using currently is the following

1-Meteor Strike (Start with Booya here for 7.66s and 9.33s timer)
2-Dolphin Blow
3-Mach Kick
4-Dolphin Blow (Start with Punch Rush here for 3.66s and 5.66s timer)
5-Mach Kick
6-Dolphin Blow
7-Heel Drop
8-Meteor Strike
9-Dolphin Blow

(EDIT : While I was writing this I manage to found a better loop but didn't get numbers for it ^^")

EDIT 2 : Get the number for the new one :

3.66 second : 19468 (10 hits)
5.66 second : 27707 (15 hits)
7.66 second : 29792 (17 hits)
9.33 second : 43637 (23 hits)

New loop is as follow :

If timer is 3.66 of 5.66 (start with Punch Rush) then :
1-Dolphin Blow
2-Mach Kick
3-Dolphin Blow
4-Heel Drop
5-Meteor Strike
6-Dolphin Blow
7-Heel Drop
9-Meteor Strike
Back to number 6 (Dolphin Blow) just chain Dolphin Blow, Heel Drop and Meteor Strike as much as you can from there.

If timer is 7.66 or 9.33 (start with Booya) then :
1-Meteor Strike
2-Dolphin Blow
3-Mach Kick
4-Dolphin Blow
5-Mach Kick
6-Dolphin Blow
7-Heel Drop
8-Meteor Strike
9-Dolphin Blow
10-Heel Drop
11-Meteor Strike
Back to number 9 (Dolphin Blow) keep chaining Dolphin Blow, Heel Drop and Meteor Strike as much as you can from there.


As for the finisher, they honnestly feel kinda useless like my Final Heaven dealt 3320 (no crit) the one time I tried it they don't seem worth it, my suggestions would be :

-Nerf Dolphin Blow a little (currently can reach 2600 damage with Crit on Jumbo Cactuar, if you can drop it to 1800-2000 on average with Crit on Jumbo Cactuar with the Stat I give that would be good)
-Make Meteor Strike respecting ennemy's Vitality but slighty stronger than Dolphin Blow (the power of actual Dolphin Blow would do I think)
-Make the Finishers ignore Vitality (and adjust their Power for it) or increase their power by a lot, maybe not Burning Rave as it's available right away and for now Burning Rave is good for an early game move, but the 3 others aren't available until quite later and as of now once they became available there's no reason to use them over doing a chain with as much Dolphin Blows and Meteor Strikes as possible.

Outside of Duel the balance seems fine overall for now just the following  notes :

-If Jumbo Cactuar is one of the ennemies with highest Vit possible then I guess Irvine's Limit Break is fine, but if not then I'm bugged by the fact that AP Ammo are his best Ammos, I think AP Ammo should be the best option only against the bosses that has the highest Vit possible, on bosses with average Vit I think it would be fair to make at least Pulse Ammo and Demolition Ammo deal more damage than AP Ammo.

-Squall's Renzokuken seems weak compare to Irvine and Zell's Limit Break, I'm fine with Darkside being a better option if the ennemy has an elemental weakness, but I dunno currently Squall's Limit Break seems very weak for a Limit Break, maybe it will get better with Lion Heart I don't know.
« Last Edit: 2019-10-15 17:01:29 by Nesouk »

Callisto

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #376 on: 2019-10-15 18:39:42 »
Updated the latest version with a Documentation folder and few changes recently discussed:

  • Raijin now uses a dedicated healing ability after his HP drop below 50% (also heals status effects; Balamb encounter only)
  • Fujin's Vitality stat and Raijin's Spirit stat have been slightly increased (Balamb encounter only)
  • All player actions will now add towards Tonberry King's Junk counter attack (except Scan and Draw)
  • Odin Steal success rate for Luck-J Scroll has been increased from 25% to 50%.
  • Windmills can now be stolen from the mid-level Abyss Worms in Kashkabald Desert (not a guaranteed Steal though)
  • Fixed an issue with Jumbo Cactuar not attacking
  • Increased Strength of Propagator's standard attack, Righty and many other common higher leveled enemies

@Nesouk:

Thanks a lot for all the testing and numbers. Jumbo Cactuar's Vitality stat is at 148, and many of the upcoming bosses will have around the same Vitality, so it should be easy to make general adjustments based on your recent damage test on Jumbo Cactuar. Irvine's Shots don't seem to differ in total damage a lot, but differences should become more noticable as you increase Irvine's Strength further. Canister Shot has in fact the highest critical hit rate of all shots to give it an edge over Armor and Hyper Shots in certain situations (in the base game, there's hardly a reason to use it at all).

As for Duel, yes, it seems to be in need of a change, as it does way more damage than the other Limit Breaks even on higher Vit enemies when repeating certain combos fast enough. Your ideas about how to change Meteor Strike and Finishers sound good, but I guess something about move sequences should be done as well (I've been quite hesitant about the latter as changing it can result in glitches - sometimes even game-breaking ones).

Other than that, I understand your worries about Rinoa's Angel Wing, but if you use it a little more, you will notice that she casts non-elemental spells most of the time (Flare is the most common one with a 25% probability), so this Limit Break should be most useful on enemies without any major elemental strengths or weaknesses. I left Demi in as it has the ability to actually kill enemies when used under Angel Wing, but I see using Angel Wing against normal enemies is hardly worth it, so maybe it will be replaced or removed from the spell table soon. I'll post the whole table later so you can make more suggestions if you like.

 
« Last Edit: 2019-10-15 20:35:03 by Callisto »

Nesouk

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #377 on: 2019-10-15 21:38:35 »
I actually run the same test using a Save Editor to make my character LV100 and best junction stats to Str/Mgi/luck and so here how it goes :

Irvine 255 in Str and 126 in Luck :
AP Ammo : 5700 per shot (Up to 34200 crit excluded)
Pulse Ammo : 5000 per shot (Up to 30000 crit excluded)
Demoliton Ammo : 4200 per shot (Up to 25200 crit excluded)
Fast Ammo : 850 per shot (26350 crit excluded)
Darkside : 24000-26000 with Crit (Irvine Crit Rate is good enough for Darkside to be a good option for him)

Rinoa with 255 Mgi :
Triple Water : 26400
Triple Meteor : 30000

Zell with 255 in Str and 104 in Luck :
3.66 second : 36800 (9 hits)
5.66 second : 54355 (12 hits)
7.66 second : 89574 (18 hits)
9.33 second : 115493 (26 hits)

Squall with 255 Str and 100 Water to ele atk :
Darkside : 17500-19500
Renzokuken : 2900 per succesfull hits so 20300 on Jumbo Cactuar, Fated Circle does 9100 (double with Crit)

Quistis with 255 Mgi :
Aqua Breath : 16000-24000
Homing Laser : 12000

So yeah Zell's Duel definitly need a nerf in one way or another, I'm honnestly amaze that nobody picked up how freaking strong Duel can be before, I mean even with the lowest timer possible he does more damage in 1 turn than pretty much anything else, and with highest timer possible that is the best damage here I don't think anything come close (except maybe the Lion Heart) (and we are note even mentionning if the target can get hit with Vit 0) and as expected of FFVIII Physical scale way more with higher Level than Magic that's hold true here as Irvine's Limit Break can compete with Magic on higher LV and even Squall's Renzokuken get good with finisher.
« Last Edit: 2019-10-15 21:41:01 by Nesouk »

Callisto

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #378 on: 2019-10-17 21:57:43 »
Thanks for the latest results. You seem to be quite fast with the inputs, and it honestly took me quite some time to reach the same number of hits when checking it out myself today.

Of course, more than 100k damage is way too much on an enemy that has a decent Vitality stat. So for now, I further reduced Duel time limits and Dolphin Blow base power, also made Meteor Strike respect enemy Vitality (but increased its base power) and got the following results on Jumbo Cactuar:

Zell with 255 Str and 104 Luck:
3.66 seconds: 21202 (8 hits)
5.00 seconds: 29182 (11 hits)
6.33 seconds: 38529 (14 hits)
7.66 seconds: 46713 (17 hits)

That's still more than most other characters can do, but if you keep in mind that Duel is the most skill-based Limit Break in the game, and also that it requires a good Luck stat to achieve above results, I think it's ok that it's superior in most situations, depending on input speed and finding a good move sequence. Feel free to check it out yourself by putting these main files in your lang-en folder.

As for AP Ammo vs Pulse Ammo, there is a good number of end-game bosses that take more damage from Pulse Ammo (and probably even from Demolition Ammo, due to its higher critical hit rate):

Fujin
Mobile Type 8
Adel
TC Sorceresses
Sphinxara/Sphinxaur
Catoblepas
Tiamat
Omega Weapon
All final boss forms (except Griever)

The Angel Wing spell table currently looks as follows:

Code: [Select]
Flare 64/256
Meltdown 32/256
Meteor 24/256
Ultima 23/256
Holy 20/256
Quake 12/256
Tornado 12/256
Firaga 12/256
Thundaga 12/256
Blizzaga 12/256
Water 8/256
Bio 8/256
Pain 8/256
Demi 8/256
??? 1/256

Nesouk

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #379 on: 2019-10-18 05:13:42 »
Number for Zell's duel seems more reasonable indeed, I also tested more Angel Wing seems indeed more viable than I thought as long as the ennemy doesn't absorb an element also what is the ??? in the table ?

So anyway beat Jumbo Cactuar and Bahamut recently :

-Jumbo Cactuar : Well the challenge seems more to defeat him before he runs away than anything else, his normal physical hit like  truck tough and could one-shot my LV35 Rinoa if she hasn't Protect, also love to use Ker Plunk I think that is the move he uses the more, Sand Storm is honnestly not threatning it does around 1000 and that's it and he also like to make you waste your time with Mighty Guard and 10000 Needles counter (which seems to come faster when you use dispel on him by the way), so I decided to take Rinoa and Quistis and just spam Double Water on him with Squall as a support and that's pretty much it just heal when needed, dispel his mighty guard revive when the 10000 needles counter happen and that should do it.

Before going for Bahamut I get Doomtrain which I forgot to take, the I wanted to see the Island Closest to Hell and Closest to heaven, seems they are fix at LV100, so I gain a couple of LV here and grind Pampas in order to learn abilities (mostly Auto-Haste for Cerberus) before going for Bahamut :

-Like the fact that instead of 2 Ruby Dragon we fight 1 Ruby Dragon then 1 Behemoth, altough the 2 are defeated the same way, Irvine is MVP here and can put both of them to sleep easily and slow with his Dark Ammos, so just has to use magic and Ammos while they are sleeping.

-Bahamut is tougher than Jumbo Cactuar but still manageable, just have to get immune to Stop because of Mind Blast, Irvine was my main damage dealer with AP Shot, Squall was in charge of mugging him (he has an Hyper Wrist for Str+30% so nice) then he and Selphie are on support, setting Protect, Shell and Haste on both they are pretty safe, Selphie is really good thanks to her natural speed, speed junction, Auto Haste and Spd+30% she sometime can act 2 times before Bahamut'snext turn. The most dangerous attacks for me are his normal attack which like a truck, Mega Flare who does 3000 damage with Shell and Maelstrom who set Slow and reduce your HP (I wasn't expecting this attack had I know I would have immune Squall to Slow as well thank god for Selphie having Auto Haste). So yeah Irvine does damage and Squall and Selphie heal, buff and revive Irvine, it did go well just a long fight.

So get Bahamut and Forbide-Mgi-RF with it, so back to Esthar as I wanted to check if you remove that weird black Esthar Soldier or not and you didn't so that's cool the thing with this guy is when you talk to him it put you in a unescapable battle against an Elnoyle, don't know what he is suppose to be, maybe it was gonna be part of a sidequest but they give up and forgot to remove him, but this is convenient cause Elnoyle is a pretty rare ennemy otherwise thanks to this dude you can just fight Elnoyles over and over (as the dude respawn by exit and reenter the area). So first I got the Moon Stones for the Lion Heart by mugging him and also the Pulse Ammo by killing him to get Energy Crystal, and now currently doing the biggest grind up to now which is kill this guy 30 times in order to get 60 Energy Crystals and so get 100 Ultimas on everyone (probably gonna do it more in order to have a good stock of Pulse Ammos as well).
« Last Edit: 2019-10-18 05:15:59 by Nesouk »

Nesouk

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #380 on: 2019-10-18 17:37:46 »
Well defeated Ultima Weapon reaching it wasn't tough :

-Tri-Face dies very fast I take advantage of them to get 100 Curse Spikes to get a Dark Matter to learn Shockwave Pulsar, also modde Bahamut Card into Shaman Stone for Irvine's final weapon, in any case Tri-Face are weak to Fire, Earth and Holy just have to junction this element to elemental attack for Squall and Irvine/Zell and they are killed in no time.

-Imp + Grendel : 100 Holy to Elemental attack and Squall can deal over 50k damage with Darkside to the Imp effectivly one shotting them while Quistis can Degenerator on the Grendel both with Initiative.

-Behemoth : They can be Berserked and put to sleep so Quistis's Homing Laser is really good to put opponent to sleep then Quistis can just set Vit 0 with Ray Bomb and kill them with Shockwave Pulsar (was reaching around 45k at best).

-Ruby Dragon : Same strat as Behemoth except I also use Double Blizzaga with Rinoa to speed things up.

-2 Iron Giant : Quistis with Initiative can neutralize them with Bad Breath with either Sleep or Blind then just spam Shockwave Pulsar until they die.

Now for Ultima Weapon, once I saw he had Triple to draw I decided to draw 300 Triple out of him as for now I didn't found anyway to get it, to do that I took an entirely magical team with Squall, Quistis and Rinoa.
That being done this is easily the hardest fight of the mod so far and this fight is hard because of 2 moves really, first is Light Pillar is it magical or physical I don't know but Protect seems to half it's damage but despite having the highest vit by far Squall was taking more damage from it than Quistis and Rinoa, in any case Light Pillar is a OHKO regardless dealing more than 9999, the second worse move is even worst Vengeance not only he deals decent damage (enough so that if Ultima Weapon use Ultima before we can heal it can end the fight pretty easily) but it also dispel all buffs a very nasty moves right there, in other word this fight is basically like the Dragon Quest bosses that have disrupted wave if he decides to spam Vengeance this fight can become very annoying very fast fortunatly I found a way around it so the strat was as follow :

-I change my junction in order for Quistis to have the lower Spr of my team, my goal was to make sure Ultima would put her in the range of using her Limit Break, I also make Rinoa's spr slightly lower to for the same purpose, Quistis also has Auto-Protect as otherwise Ultima Weapon's normal attack could one shot if he crit.
-The beginning of the fight he doesn't use Vengeance right away so I can safely buff just has to revive if he uses Light Pillar once I'm done Drawing the triple I start damaging him using Triple Flare with Rinoa.
-Once he uses Vengeance I purposely cast Pain on Quistis so that she get statut Effect which boost her Crisis Level, thanks to this a simple vengeance is enough for Quistis to use her Limit Break, so Quistis can heal out of everything (mainly Vengeance and Ultima) with White Wind.
-As for damage as soon as I get the chance I put Rinoa in Angel Wing, thanks to that I have a good offense that Ultima Weapon can't interrupt, Rinoa can deal up to around 20k with Ultima, Meteor, Flare and Holy less with other spells.
-And so from now on Squall just keep Protect on Rinoa, heal when Ultima use his normal attack and Revive if Light Pillar is thrown
-Quistis use her White Wind whenever Vengeance or Ultima are casted

So this strat is rather risky but it worked out in the end so yeah that was a fun and challenging fight.

EDIT : Just I wanted to run a damage test with Zell's Duel modification, I thought I would try on Iron Giant at Tear's Point, I think he has even more Vit than Jumbo Cactuar however so how much does Vit Iron Giants have at Tear's Point ?

Also I think Duel's finisher are in a good position now, my Final Heaven is an awesome AoE can deal up to around 38k if the target has Vit 0 and it crit, on an Iron Giant My Final Heaven does around 4500-5000 and around 10000 if it crit, this is really good to finish a combo currently a Non-Crit My Final Heaven does more damage that a Crit Meteor Strike considering My Final Heaven inputs are pretty easy it's a cool way to finish a combo.

Speaking of which I forgot to say that I also did the new Lunatic Pandora lab battles before Deep Sea and Geez Zell and Quistis are an amazing duo for these fights, just set Vit 0 on all of them with Ray Bomb then a Duel with Zell and conclude with My Final Heaven and laugh at Zell hitting the poor dudes for 19k (38k if it crit) XD, Elastoid seems immune to Vit 0 tough so My Final Heaven only does 8k (non crit, yeah Vit 0 really make a HUGE difference).

EDIT : Well did the Fire Cavern revisit quest, like it so basically it's just like Deep Sea, fix encounter on all areas and a boss at the end so :

-Armadillo + 2 Turtapod : Put the Armadillo on berserk to avoid Earthquake, Zell use his Duel, My Final Heaven is enough to kill the Turtapod so I just target the Armadillo to kill all 3, while Squall is covering Zell.

-Ruby Dragon + 2 big fish : The must annoying fight seems that without Quistis or Irvine putting the Ruby Dragon to sleep is hard but at least Slow work, the big fishs can be berserked so they are a non issue, need 2 My Final Heaven to kill them with Slow I should have the time to do it before the Ruby Dragon use Ruby Breath which hurt like a truck and will kill Zell, so I put Protect on Selphie and Squall so they can survive, Squall with Darkside and 100 Blizzaga to Ele Atk can finish off the Ruby Dragon as he hit for almost 20k with the damage Zell deal he should die fast.

-2 Hexdragons : Doesn't have a lot of HP and with Fire Protection they aren't to threatning, Zell's Duel and Selphie use Water spell they should die fast.

-2 Elnoyles : Despite being the last fight it's the easiest, this guy can easily be put on Vit 0 and with Vit 0 Zell's Duel is deadly and My Final Heaven alone can hit for 38k if it crit

-Boosted Bomb : Alright good job on this fight, really tricky the bastard has huge Defense and Magic Defense complete with Auto-Protect and Auto-Shell, his physical attacks are pretty strong as well as Flare, and everytime we hit him he heal for 17k-18k, so yeah even AP Shot wouldn't be enough to one shot him, also he destroy your GF once you attempt to use them, and he also heal himself if Flare is reflected at him. So honnestly the only way I found to beat is soloing him using Squall with Auto-Haste, Spd + 30%, Mgi + 30% and Return Damage, Return Damage is the only way I found to damage him without making him heal, so I just cast a Renew at the beginning of the fight (awesome spell by the way) and just try to stay alive while Return Damage kill him. Also at the end he uses Suicide on himself not sure if that was intended XD.

So now Zell finally got his final weapon.
« Last Edit: 2019-10-19 16:59:08 by Nesouk »

Callisto

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #381 on: 2019-10-21 03:41:17 »
-Ultima Weapon: Light Pillar has been changed from 9999 fixed damage to the most powerful single-hit physical attack in the game with a 100% crit chance. So it can be survived, but Vitality requirements are very high. Vengeance won't be used before turn 17 to give players more time to draw Triple or Ultima spells. After turn 17, it will be used at set intervals (every 4th turn), so Ultima Weapon won't be able to spam it to keep things in check.

-Iron Giants have around 190 Vitality no matter where they are encountered, so most physical attacks will be next to useless against them. They retain their weakness against Gravity attacks though, so using one or two Gravity Bombs (new item), and then some Thundagas is a good alternative to finish them off. But of course, Shockwave Pulsar works very well too, due their naturally low Spirit stat.

-Lunatic Pandora Laboratory battles: It's really good to hear that you found a use for Quistis' Ray Bomb here. I never liked that it was next to useless in the base game, so it now reliably inflicts Vit 0, as long as the target is not immune to it. But using AoEs is actually quite risky against the 3 Cyborgs, as in this particular battle, each one has a 50% chance to cast Ultima upon defeat.

-Fire Cavern sidequest: Bomb using Suicide on himself at the end was not planned. I wanted it to target the character who last attacked, and in case it dies from a Counter or Return Damage, do nothing and just die. Guess it isn't as easy though, so I'll make it target a random party member instead.

Thanks for all the feedback again. It's interesting to read about the various strategies you've tried, like Angel Wing working for you against Ultima Weapon, which I'm pleased to hear. Also always good to get some feedback about the additional sidequests - so I guess the battles at Lunatic Pandora Laboratory could be made a little more difficult, and Elnoyle could be made immune to Vit 0, or perhaps be made an undead enemy to raise its natural defense against physical attacks (at least it would fit quite well).

Spoiler: show
The spell with the 1/256 probability is Apocalypse.

Nesouk

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #382 on: 2019-10-21 05:17:09 »
-Ultima Weapon: Light Pillar has been changed from 9999 fixed damage to the most powerful single-hit physical attack in the game with a 100% crit chance. So it can be survived, but Vitality requirements are very high. Vengeance won't be used before turn 17 to give players more time to draw Triple or Ultima spells. After turn 17, it will be used at set intervals (every 4th turn), so Ultima Weapon won't be able to spam it to keep things in check.

Well thought then regarding leaving the player time to draw, I guess I don't have enough vit at the moment to survive it,

-Iron Giants have around 190 Vitality no matter where they are encountered, so most physical attacks will be next to useless against them. They retain their weakness against Gravity attacks though, so using one or two Gravity Bombs (new item), and then some Thundagas is a good alternative to finish them off. But of course, Shockwave Pulsar works very well too, due their naturally low Spirit stat.

So they have an even higher Vit than Jumbo Cactuar as I thought no wonder Zell's Duel damage for my testing were lower than the one you give for Jumbo Cactuar. But Yeah I figure Magic, Gravity and Statut Effect were the way to go against them.

-Lunatic Pandora Laboratory battles: It's really good to hear that you found a use for Quistis' Ray Bomb here. I never liked that it was next to useless in the base game, so it now reliably inflicts Vit 0, as long as the target is not immune to it. But using AoEs is actually quite risky against the 3 Cyborgs, as in this particular battle, each one has a 50% chance to cast Ultima upon defeat.

Yeah Ray Bomb is good in this mod probably the best way to inflict Vit 0 hands down, it was definitly a useless move in the base game and even in other mod like Requiem and Reloaded, especially for how hard it is to get it if you didn't do anything in Laguna's second flashback.

Thanks for all the feedback again. It's interesting to read about the various strategies you've tried, like Angel Wing working for you against Ultima Weapon, which I'm pleased to hear. Also always good to get some feedback about the additional sidequests - so I guess the battles at Lunatic Pandora Laboratory could be made a little more difficult, and Elnoyle could be made immune to Vit 0, or perhaps be made an undead enemy to raise its natural defense against physical attacks (at least it would fit quite well).

Or make Elnoyle resistance to statut effect as great as Ruby Dragons, currently Ruby Dragon can be slowed, sleeped and put to Vit 0 however inflicting these with regular Magic is almost impossible you have to use Limit Break (Quistis's Bad Breath, Homing Laser, Ray Bomb or Irvine's Dark Ammo) to have reasonnable chance of inflicting them, which I think it's fine for some of the toughest ennemies in the game.
Also regarding regular ennemies while I like that Statut Effect are usefull overall I feel there is to much ennemies that can be Berserked, which completly Trivialize them most notorious are Blue Dragon and Behemoths which I feel should be strong regular encounter (especially since most of the time they are alone), and overall Berserk + Blind combo has been a pretty consistent strat against regular ennemies.

Regarding Angel Wing honnestly this is the Limit Break that beneficiate the most from the Damage Limit being remove, outside of Meteor it was a useless Limit Break cause none of the other Spell could break the damage limit of 9999 due to that outside of Meteor it was always better to do a triple cast than Angel Wing, I wasn't sure about removing any sort of control the player have over it by making Rinoa's spell selection independant of her magic inventory, but considering this is a relativly safe offensive option (you lose control of Rinoa but the fact that it immune her to most crippling statut effects and unlike other Limit Break you can heal her and not give a damn about Crisis Level somewhat make up for that), on Ultima Weapon the lowest damage Rinoa could do was 8800 with Bio (didn't get any Pain tough) so from 8000 to 20000 per turn is fine considering it require 0 input on the players part.

So By the way regarding new sidequest :

-The Ruby Dragon of Trabia Canyon : A good fight can definitly caught you off guard the first time, being immune to Zombie and Berserk is a very good idea in this fight, he seems to act in a set pattern from what I understand and counter Regular attack by Pain, Limit Break by normal attacks and Magic by casting Reflect on himself, Putrefy is a nasty move setting Zombie on everyone, so I casted Triple on Rinoa who then cast Renew on everyone, main damage dealer was then Squall with Darkside and 100 Blizzaga to Ele atk he could deal almost 20k and also Irvine if he ever got the chance with AP Ammo can definitly do some serious damage (AP Shot does 5000, 10k with a crit), and I really should have done this quest earlier as the Dark Matter you as a reward is now pretty much useless to me as I already got shockwave Pulsar and Ultima.

-Saving the little girl at Esthar : Fight against 2 Behemoth Berserk make them powerless, then they have a pretty low Physical defense so I used Irvine with Darkside with Crit he can deal around 28k and he has a pretty good crit rate.

Also I'm trying to do Odine seeking for Mithryl sidequest, I got the Goddess bell item, but it doesn't appear in my inventory, when I go to the Tomb of the Unknown King I can't find the Rare Adamantoise anywhere so am I missing something here ?

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #383 on: 2019-10-21 14:30:16 »
Or make Elnoyle resistance to statut effect as great as Ruby Dragons, currently Ruby Dragon can be slowed, sleeped and put to Vit 0 however inflicting these with regular Magic is almost impossible you have to use Limit Break (Quistis's Bad Breath, Homing Laser, Ray Bomb or Irvine's Dark Ammo) to have reasonnable chance of inflicting them, which I think it's fine for some of the toughest ennemies in the game.
Also regarding regular ennemies while I like that Statut Effect are usefull overall I feel there is to much ennemies that can be Berserked, which completly Trivialize them most notorious are Blue Dragon and Behemoths which I feel should be strong regular encounter (especially since most of the time they are alone), and overall Berserk + Blind combo has been a pretty consistent strat against regular ennemies.
Ok, will do something to make Elnoyles a little more resilient, but will probably leave the Degenerator back door open, so farming Elnoyle in Esthar won't be overly time-consuming. What I would really like to do is changing enemy status resistance dynamically for the same enemy, mid-battle or depending on battle. It can be done for elemental resistance (see Blobras or Thrustaevises), but in the case of status effects, it looks like a similar enemy AI instruction doesn't exist, unfortunately.

Berserk is indeed quite a cheap way of dealing with certain enemies, as they don't even get the increased Strength when berserked, and just use their regular physical attack unbuffed in almost all cases. It's possible to control which attack enemies use when under Berserk though, and I already managed to make Iguions actually inflict more damage when under Berserk, but a lot more enemies should get that treatment, so using Berserk always comes with a risk, especially if enemies are not blinded at the same time. It will take a little time, but more changes to enemy Berserk behavior will follow soon.

Quote
Regarding Angel Wing honnestly this is the Limit Break that beneficiate the most from the Damage Limit being remove, outside of Meteor it was a useless Limit Break cause none of the other Spell could break the damage limit of 9999 due to that outside of Meteor it was always better to do a triple cast than Angel Wing, I wasn't sure about removing any sort of control the player have over it by making Rinoa's spell selection independant of her magic inventory, but considering this is a relativly safe offensive option (you lose control of Rinoa but the fact that it immune her to most crippling statut effects and unlike other Limit Break you can heal her and not give a damn about Crisis Level somewhat make up for that), on Ultima Weapon the lowest damage Rinoa could do was 8800 with Bio (didn't get any Pain tough) so from 8000 to 20000 per turn is fine considering it require 0 input on the players part.
Yes, especially the last point you made is actually very important in tougher battles, as no time needs to be spend on selecting Commands or targets, so the enemy won't be able to interrupt your actions as often. So I think Angel Wing is currently in a reasonable spot overall. I'll probably remove Demi from the table though, to make it slightly more useful. I can imagine it's quite frustrating if Rinoa uses it against bosses.

As for the new sidequest in Esthar, you have everything you need to find the Adamantoises inside Tomb of the Unknown King (the Goddess Bell is rather just a variable than a real item; too bad there's no inventory for key items in this game). Have you already looked at the middle tower from all possible angles?

Nesouk

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #384 on: 2019-10-21 21:14:15 »
Ok, will do something to make Elnoyles a little more resilient, but will probably leave the Degenerator back door open, so farming Elnoyle in Esthar won't be overly time-consuming. What I would really like to do is changing enemy status resistance dynamically for the same enemy, mid-battle or depending on battle. It can be done for elemental resistance (see Blobras or Thrustaevises), but in the case of status effects, it looks like a similar enemy AI instruction doesn't exist, unfortunately.

Berserk is indeed quite a cheap way of dealing with certain enemies, as they don't even get the increased Strength when berserked, and just use their regular physical attack unbuffed in almost all cases. It's possible to control which attack enemies use when under Berserk though, and I already managed to make Iguions actually inflict more damage when under Berserk, but a lot more enemies should get that treatment, so using Berserk always comes with a risk, especially if enemies are not blinded at the same time. It will take a little time, but more changes to enemy Berserk behavior will follow soon.

That would be interesting indeed, in fact this could open some option for making Berserk a key factor in some battle (something I wanted to do in some boss battle when I was trying to mod FFIX (I should really come back to it by the way ^^) cause in FFIX to you can set which attack the berserked ennemy will use which I think could make some fight interesting if use properly).

Yes, especially the last point you made is actually very important in tougher battles, as no time needs to be spend on selecting Commands or targets, so the enemy won't be able to interrupt your actions as often. So I think Angel Wing is currently in a reasonable spot overall. I'll probably remove Demi from the table though, to make it slightly more useful. I can imagine it's quite frustrating if Rinoa uses it against bosses.

Yeah Angel Wing is in a good spot.
By the way speaking of Rinoa's Limit Break I did some testing with her Angelo Limit Break, I didn't use it like at all cause I was focusing on a Magic use for Rinoa but since I tried pretty much anything else I thought why not trying just to see what it can do and My God I think underestimate this Limit Break really bad it's actually a very good one :

-Angelo Canon and Angelo Strike are VERY strong geez, with 244 Str Angelo Canon is actually stronger than Zell's My Final Heaven with 255 Str on Iron Giant My Final Heaven does around 4500-5000 Angelo Canon does around 5200-5500 (double with Crit) this might be the best Physical AoE in the game actually cause since it's a Crisis Level 1 it's the most likely attack to get off and require no skill unlike My Final Heaven and is more likely to get than Squall's Finisher, and Angelo Strike is even stronger around 7900-8500 on Iron Giant with 244 Str (double with Crit of course) I actually reach 45k on a Behemoth with Vit 0 with this attack criting so this is a very strong single target attack.

-Awakening Moon is a free heal but it's honnestly an inconvenience more than anything else and I think this is the least usefull of Angelo's Limit Break, cause the problem is you cannot predict it and so if you plan using Rinoa as a damage dealer with her Limit Break this full heal will prevent you from using Limit Break and you will have to set up again and even if you want to actually heal why would you risk using something random like this when you can use Quistis's White Wind or simply a Triple Curaga ? You definitly want to nerf Invincible Moon but this new move is honnestly an annoyance more than anything else in a Limit Break Random as this one. So as of now I just didn't learn it so that at least I can be sure that Rinoa will do damage which the main goal of using her Limit.

-Wishing Star : Now that is the one that worries me the most it scale with Rinoa's magic which is good, and I think it's definitly the most powerfull Magic Attack in the game, with 255 Mgi Wishing Star deal around 72000 damage to an Iron Giant (which has 0 Spr apparently cause after setting Vit 0 on a Behemoth I was reaching the same damage output), that is quite a lot, on a Behemoth which apparently has a good Spr it does 30-32k that's quite a lot to put in perspective it's around the 2 time the damage of a Triple Ultima, and this is even stronger than Quistis's Shockwave Pulsar (who at best deal 65k to Iron Giant down to 45k depending of the Crisis Level with 255 Mgi and I didn't even exceed 17k on Behemoth) and this isn't mentionning this is an AoE. Tough the fact it require highest Crisis Level to pull off, make this move unlikely to being pulled off unless you really do your best at increasing Rinoa's Crisis Level (by reducing her HP a lot and put several Statut Effect on her).

As for the new sidequest in Esthar, you have everything you need to find the Adamantoises inside Tomb of the Unknown King (the Goddess Bell is rather just a variable than a real item; too bad there's no inventory for key items in this game). Have you already looked at the middle tower from all possible angles?

Manage to found them in the end, so the fight against them was pretty fun, having to keep an eye on what Ward they use, so immunity to Silence and Petrify is welcome, junction 100 Thundaga to Element Attak on Irvine and Squall, Rinoa as my magic damage dealer with Triple Thundaga, you can actually put Vit 0 on them quite easily and as such they over 30k from Triple Thundaga, and you can Blind them to make their physical attack and Sand Storm (cause it's physical for some reasons), overall most dangerous thing is the last one will use Ultima instead of Quake.

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #385 on: 2019-10-23 13:41:41 »
OK So did the CC Club sidequest and finish disc 3, I don't like being negative in general but I guess it is better to be honnest, this is honnestly the most lacking part of the Mod up to now End of Disc 3 and early Disc 4 is quite a disappointment regarding the boss fight :

-Fujin and Raijin : there is some good idea, I like the fact that Fujin act as more of a support here, but she is just to focus on support and outside of it don't do much she only did 1 Zan, 1 fix Meteor and 1 Bio, Raijin is more focusing on damage, except the issue here is they are severely lacking in damage even Raijin's Special didn't do more than 2000 with Protect, Fujin's support can simply be dispel and completly neutralize (really playing this I now understand why Mexico did something similar to FFVII and creat a spell that only dispel Protect, Shell and Reflect and is available for most of the game, and left the spell that dispel all buff for late game only, cause dispel just make any sort of ennemies using buff irrelevant unless it's a special buff like what you did with the Rare adamantoise and their wards or Defend), so basically I just Mugged them and kill them with Triple Bio, Squall using Darkside and Irvine regular attack (both with Bio on Element Attack).

-Mobile Type 8 : Well to put it simply if it wasn't for trying to mug all 3 of them I could end this fight before they even start to separate, Mugging took me a LOT of time don't know why but the right pod just didn't want me to mug him, I no joke must have try over 20 times before I succeed, at least Str Ups are a good thing, my main offensive was Irvine using is Limit Break (Pulse Ammo or Demolition Ammos), Squall using Darkside with 100 Thundaga to Elemental Attack and Selphie with Triple Thundaga, if he ever got the time when he separates he put himself in defense becoming immune to physical and halving magic at that point Squall just stay on support while Selphie rain down the thundaga. So the only thing to watch for is his Homing Laser Counter and the fact it inflict Sleep so immunity to sleep is good to have and be ready to revive Irvine.

-Seifer 3 : The lamest fight of the entire mod, what happen here ? He did nothing but regular attack, his regular attack doesn't do more than 1700 with Protect and don't even do Statut Effect and I don't know if I got lucky or what but he really did nothing else, no Bloodfest, no magic, nothing this one need a serious overhaul in his AI and his abilities and furthermore his HP seems pathetically low it didn't even last 2 minutes. Honnestly it's the final fight with Seifer he should pull off a big fight for the occasion, you already take away Gilgamesh auto killing him after some time.

-Adel + Linoa : The only good fight of this entire part, than one was good, Ray Bomb is a good idea as setting Vit 0 dramatically increase the damage we take, the damage Adel deals to Linoa is very high (1500 with Shell), I somehow manage to keep her alive but I kinda luck out here, the spell that inflict Doom on all the party is a good idea to, due to the nature of this fight we have to deal with Vit 0 and Doom, while keeping Rinoa alive and damaging Adel, Irvine was my main damage dealer here  with Pulse and Demolition Ammos, combine with Squall's Darkside with Tornado on Elemental Attack and Selphie using Triple Flare when she got the occasion, as for Renew casting Renew on her and healing her from time to time, this is complete by the fact Adel has quite a lot of HP and so she doesn't go down easily. So not hard but it's a fun fight.

-Sorceress's gauntlet : Well as I said Adel was the only good fight of this part of the game, I can understand the first and second type of Sorceress being weak HP Wise to not drag this fight, however I think you should make it so they act at least 1 time as soon as they appear that would keep thing interesting at least as they go down really fast also remove the physical attack for the first type really a useless move, Squall one shot the first type with Darkside and when they are 2 of them Irvine can kill both with Fire Ammos. The last Sorceress like Seifer is lacking she did nothing but Gravija and Normal attacks, Gravija can't kill me and her normal attack does like 1500 damage with Protect, and she has low HP for that point of the game so again Irvine's Pulse Ammo and Squall's Darkside take care of this, think that one need a buff not necessarily to make it hard but more to make it fun at least.

So I think what happen here is you probably wanted to make this bosses to be beatable without doing the sidequests at Disc 3, as I guess if I didn't did all of them I would have been at a way lower LV with less good magic to junction which would have make these fight harder, however considering this is a mod that add quite a lot of sidequest and, in FFVIII unlike FFVII or FFIX finishing Disc 3 is really a point of no return locking up the player preventing his to get back, as such I think most players will do all the sidequests (at least as much as they can) before going to Lunatic Pandora, so you should take account how strong the player can be at this point, cause clearly I think these fight weren't design to a strong team, of course I'm not asking for each of this fight to be as challenging as Ultima Weapon, but really Jumbo Cactuar, Bahamut, that Special Red Dragon you add and even the Special Adamantoises were more interesting and/or challenging than these fight (save for Adel again she was a good fight overall).

Anyway so here I am to Ultimecia's castle now I'm gonna get the Ragnarok back.
« Last Edit: 2019-10-23 13:53:43 by Nesouk »

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #386 on: 2019-10-24 02:26:55 »
The problem with Seifer probably was that his AI script still consists of weighted random checks for the most part, without any pattern in regards to the attacks he chooses. I thought reducing the probability of his regular physical attack being used to about 40% would suffice, but it apparently wasn't enough to prevent him from spamming it, as it happened in your case.

So reworked Seifers script to something more structured with way fewer randomization in it, to make sure all his moves will be seen. The other bosses you mentioned (except Adel) have been buffed as well, but not all that much for reasons you already mentioned (I also don't want to make casting Protect and Shell mandatory for every single boss battle). You can check out a preview here if you like (replace main and battle files in lang-en folder). Any further opinions would be much appreciated.

Nesouk

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #387 on: 2019-10-24 05:44:09 »
OK I will try them again with the update in any case I beat everything in Ultimecia's castle only Ultimecia herself is left so I'm gonna go in the order I did them :

-Sphinxaur : Well since we only have Normal Attacks this as a result is a very straight forward boss, I took all 3 boys junction Holy to their attack and I just keep attacking, he doesn't do that much damage, just have to be carefull hitting him and not the jelleye he summons in the second phase, I recover Magic and the 2 next bosses will be girls time.

-Tri Point : So the gimmick of this one is to alternate between Fire and Ice magic, so I use Triple on all 3 girls and Rinoa and Quistis use Triple Firaga and Triple Blizzaga respectivly while Selphie buff and heal. I recover the Limit Break option.

-Krysta : Still girl team, this time however I wasn't expecting his regular attack to do Stop so as a result only Selphie was immune via Auto-Haste, so she was the main Damage dealer with Triple Flare while Rinoa and Quistis were healing and buffing preparing for his Ultima. I recover the resurection option.

-Trauma : Took Squall, Irvine and Selphie. An interesting one, so apparently as long as even 1 Droma is here he gain a sort of auto-heal for almost 9000HP, the Dromas themselves aren't to threatning and go down easily with Squall and Irvine's physical attacks (with Tornado to Elemental Attack) and Selphie using Triple Tornado, Trauma's most dangerous attack is definitly Mega Pulse canon who does around 7000 damage and ignore Shell but this move is also a great occasion to use Limit Breaks to damage him. I recover saving ability.

-Red Giant : An easy one for once a mod doesn't remove his gimmick of being weak to Gravity XD. So just beefed up everyone Vitality, set protect cast Triple Demi 2 or 3 times and finish him off with Irvine's AP Shot. I recover the Command ability.

-Gargantua : Using Zell, Quistis and Rinoa first off we have to take off Lefty, Righty and Vysage no big deal a Triple Ultima will do the trick, Gargantua himself might be the second toughest of the 8 Guardian, mainly cause he can set Vit 0 on us, has Berserk and can use Vengeance yep this move again and his physical attacks are quite damaging, so just like Ultima weapon I putted Rinoa on Angel Wing as soon as I get the chance, so that he can't interrupt my offense while buffing/healing with Zell and Quistis.

-Tiamat : Using Zell, Quistis and Rinoa again, toughest of the 8 gardian but that's my fault I was focusing on Limit Break didn't know he could counter them with Ultima I realise that to late, so I switch strat mid battle using only Zell's Limit Break, outside of Ultima counter the most dangerous thing is he can now use Dark Flare whenever he wants and it's a 8000 damage in the face without Shell so yeah quite a damaging move.

-Catoblepas : Using Squall, Selphie and Irvine, well this guy only dangerous move his Heaven's Wrath just like Odin so my main Damage dealer was Irvine with Pulse Ammo and Squall using Darkside since he has low physical defense, Heaven's Wrath give a nice opportunity for using Limit Break due to the damage it does just have to be carefull in case it set Stop.

And so now for the big boy himself Omega Weapon, with he is definitly the toughest boss of the mod took me 4-5 tries to found a somewhat consistent strat against him and well show don't tell as they say so I record a fight :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSm1Ifm2yjE&feature=youtu.be

So basically he has all kind of nasty moves including Megido Flame, Light Pillar, Vengeance and Terra Break, Megido Flame doesn't deal 9998 damage thank god, seems to deal damage depending of characters max HP, Terra Break is the big one without Defend this move alone make the fight luck base, for Light Pillar Squall can actually survive it without Defend (with 232 Vit and Protect Squall take 8000 from Light Pillar) so basically :

-Squall here is my tank set Renew, Haste and Triple then putting him in Defend and he stays in Defend in case Terra Break, at least Omega can't use Megido Flame and/or Terra Break back to back (however he can use Vengeance follow by Terra Break it's rare but this is definitly the most dangerous thing that can happen in this fight) so Squall is safe to be on support when either of them is used, is role is to tank and resurrect the other after Terra Break.

-Quistis is the support, use Ray Bomb to inflict Vit 0 then assist Squall on support, using Renew on her and resurrecting Irvine when he die, also throw Aura Stone at Irvine (first time I use them cause yeah this is the strongest boss in the game normally so no holding back on that bastard XD).

-Irvine is the main damage dealer with Pulse Ammos, Pulse Ammos might be a little to strong with Vit 0, despite our dear XenoKyros labelling Irvine as garbage he can pull off ridiculous damage here Pulse Ammo deal 11000-12000 damage and up to around 24000 per Shots, I even got an extremely lucky turn where I pulled off 6 Shots and all them Crit that's over 130k here so much for Irvine being a garbage XD.

Got to admit I got lucky on certain part especially on the first Terra Break not Killing Quistis, this is honnestly the first time it ever happen usually she died (I did 5 tries and also did this fight using Zell instead of Irvine and on all of them this is really the only time I saw Quistis surviving Terra Break), and after the Ultima Omega Weapon didn't use anything that could have killed Irvine leaving Irvine a lot of turns to damage him. Showing my junction after the fight if anyone is interested.
Also you might want to nerf the Pulse Ammos a little for that fight tough XD.

Also I think Light Pillar as some damage overflow thing notice how at 3:40 on the video Irvine has 8000HP game tell you that Light Pillar has 3754 yet this killed Irvine regardless XD

EDIT : Well Ultimecia defeated decide to leave Irvine and Zell out for once so I took Squall, Quistis and Rinoa, Squall as a physical fighter with 100 Water to Elemental Attack, Quistis and Rinoa as mage, just make sure to have a Holy and Thundaga spells :

-Ultimecia : Basically just a warming I just try to survive waiting for my team to come up, once I got my team I set up them with Triple, Renew and Haste, then since she has a good Magic Defense and no good weakness to exploit I just use Squall's Darkside and some triple Meteor.

-Griever : Poor dude only did 3 actions (including the fix Schockwave Pulsar) before dying he is very weak to Holy so with Triple Holy Rinoa does over 40k and Quistis (who has less magic around 32k so over 70k per turn Squall just healing if needed, so yeah around 3 or 4 round of Quistis and Rinoa using Triple Holy and he is done, his Schockwave Pulsar does around 3000 with Shell.

-Ultimecia + Griever : Now Squall can get some good damage as she take a lot damage from Water element Squall can hit for 28-29k with Darkside, Rinoa around 27k with Triple Thundaga and Quistis 24k with Triple Thundaga so yeah almost 80k per round since I have by far the advantage in speed I manage to cut her tail before she even get the time to summon one of her little thing. Once her tail is off she acts a lot faster but she doesn't do anything dangerous except maybe Demi Schock but hey my Elixir are here for that.

-Final Ultimecia : Alright this one is a lot longer to kill than the 2 previous one, since she has no weakness to exploit I decided to just put Rinoa into Angel Wing and let her do damage (PS : I actually got an Apocalypse here who did 47k so that was nice XD), Squall can do damage with Darkside hitting for 14k and his Limit Break if he got the chance, Quistis is on support. She actually has her own version on Vengeance except it also dispel Angel Wing, but she only used it once in the entire fight so I just had to rebuff. She can still remove are spells, and something weird happened by the way at one point the game told me that she removed Quistis's Ultima, but it was Squall's Ultima that were remove, so that was weird and because Squall has become useless for dealing damage but that wasn't an issue cause this happen once the inferior part appear, at that point I just draw 31 Apocalypse with Quistis and was using her for dealing damage with Triple Apocalypse (1 Apocalypse hit for 10k with 207 Magic stat), while Rinoa was continuing her job, Ultimecia didn't get the time to use Apocalypse in fact after Drawing she losed time casting Flare.
Once the inferior part is gone at this point she is nearly done, she does however recover more than 20k between each of her monolog lines, but she also seem to become more trigger happy with Hell's Judgement so I use that as an opportunity to use Schockwave Pulsar who can deal at best around 45k on her

So yeah that was the Final Boss, so Griever and Ultimecia + Griever needs some more HP I think to accomodate for the fact they do have weaknesses, especially Griever Holy being one of the strongest spell in the game he suffers a lot from it, cause as of now they barely get the time to act. As for Final Ultimecia my only complains would be that she uses Flare a lot to much compare to her other spells (or maybe that was just luck in that case nevermind) and she should cast her Apocalypse right away instead of wasting time casting something else, otherwise Final Ultimecia is good she is a fun fight, she has enough HP to take a lot of punishment without making it to tedious which is what you would expect from a final boss and she does has some trick to spice the fight a little.

So I'm gonna retry the End of Disc 3/Beginning of Disc 4 bosses and then I think I will be done and will sum up my conclusions.
« Last Edit: 2019-10-24 09:45:37 by Nesouk »

Callisto

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #388 on: 2019-10-27 18:27:35 »
-Red Giant: Well yes, it's a little cheap that Gravity attacks still work on him, but being able to draw Demi from directly or simply destroy his defense using Vit 0 was even cheaper. Also, he is the only boss after Cerberus that is vulnerable to Gravity attacks, so I thought why not leaving the vulnerability in for a change. He also has as massive amount of HP, so he should always get at least a couple of turns, and damage is quite high if Vitality stats are below ~150, so I think Red Giant is fine overall. Could perhaps increase the hit rate of his single-hit sword attacks though, as they are quite easy to dodge even with only mediocre Evade stats.

-Omega Weapon: Damage overflow shouldn't have happened, as damage is always capped at 60,000 HP in this mod. Do you have any other hext files under RaW/Global/Hext that mess with damage limit? That could explain it.

Otherwise, very well done fight. I don't mind that Pulse Ammo is superior to anything else in this battle (after setting Vit 0), as Omega Weapon is one of the few end-game enemies that are actualy vulnerable to Vit 0, and I think there should be a way to inflict massive amounts of damage on an enemy that enforces defensive play so much that it can be difficult find the right time to attack at all, as you noticed yourself. If anything, I would rather change the resources for getting Pulse Ammo instead of further reducing its base power. If you do the fixed Elnoyle encounter in Esthar repeatedly, it's actually quite easy to get a full stock in no time. As for the overall usefulness of Irvine's Limit Break, yes, Xerokynos' conclusion was a bit hasty (if I remember right, he tried AP Shot when Irvine had a Strength stat of only 32, then dismissed it for the rest of the playthrough) - if Irvine's Strength is high enough, then it's still very good.

I would be interested in seeing the stats by the way, especially Irvine's Luck. Maybe some spell junction effects are still too generous on it.

-Griever: It's honestly quite disappointing that he only got 3 attacks in your case, so I looked at his AI script again and found another, less obvious turn skip, which slows him down considerably. So removed this skip, and now he acts noticably faster. The third form has a similar turn skip as well, but it's difficult to remove without Ifrit enemy editor (the tool doesn't work very well with this enemy in general). I'll give it a try with manual hex editing though.

-Final Ultimecia: The time lapse between "Draw Apocalypse" and actually casting Apocalypse isn't any longer than in the base game. It's just that in this mod, Ultimecia acts at times she normally wouldn't, so she now uses another move between these two actions, when she would normally just skip a turn. Making it so that she casts Apocalpyse immediately after drawing it from her lower half would be quite difficult to achieve due to the complexity of her AI script, and similar to the previous enemy, the Ifrit tool doesn't "like" her file very much, so a lot of manual editing would be necessary, at least if you want to keep her Ability that destroys GF. I'll try to make her use Vaporize a little more often, and Hell's Judgement less frequently when near death. Thanks.

Nesouk

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #389 on: 2019-10-28 06:29:17 »
-Red Giant: Well yes, it's a little cheap that Gravity attacks still work on him, but being able to draw Demi from directly or simply destroy his defense using Vit 0 was even cheaper. Also, he is the only boss after Cerberus that is vulnerable to Gravity attacks, so I thought why not leaving the vulnerability in for a change. He also has as massive amount of HP, so he should always get at least a couple of turns, and damage is quite high if Vitality stats are below ~150, so I think Red Giant is fine overall. Could perhaps increase the hit rate of his single-hit sword attacks though, as they are quite easy to dodge even with only mediocre Evade stats.

Well I wasn't complaining ^^ for once Gravity attacks are usefull on a boss and kinda mandatory (as killing him with AP Shot would just take to long otherwise).

-Omega Weapon: Damage overflow shouldn't have happened, as damage is always capped at 60,000 HP in this mod. Do you have any other hext files under RaW/Global/Hext that mess with damage limit? That could explain it.

I check but I have nothing else in the Hext folder than your mod, back when I fight Ultima Weapon I effectivly saw 60000, however remember when I also said on Ultima Weapon that at one point Light Pillar was dealing more damage on Squall than Quistis/Rinoa despite Squall having highest Vit (Squall was 50k at the time while Quistis just 11k), so far Light Pillar is the only attack I saw an overflow.
However I got over 60k with Quistis's Schockwave Pulsar (did go up to 65k with Vit 0) but Demi didn't do more than 60k, unless this is intentionnal for Schockwave Pulsar it seems certain attacks break the 60k damage limit.

Otherwise, very well done fight. I don't mind that Pulse Ammo is superior to anything else in this battle (after setting Vit 0), as Omega Weapon is one of the few end-game enemies that are actualy vulnerable to Vit 0, and I think there should be a way to inflict massive amounts of damage on an enemy that enforces defensive play so much that it can be difficult find the right time to attack at all, as you noticed yourself. If anything, I would rather change the resources for getting Pulse Ammo instead of further reducing its base power. If you do the fixed Elnoyle encounter in Esthar repeatedly, it's actually quite easy to get a full stock in no time. As for the overall usefulness of Irvine's Limit Break, yes, Xerokynos' conclusion was a bit hasty (if I remember right, he tried AP Shot when Irvine had a Strength stat of only 32, then dismissed it for the rest of the playthrough) - if Irvine's Strength is high enough, then it's still very good.

I would be interested in seeing the stats by the way, especially Irvine's Luck. Maybe some spell junction effects are still too generous on it.

Yeah and Irvine happen to be the best way to get somewhat consistant high damage here, Zell is a good alternative and I suppose if you got lucky with Lion Heart proc Squall can be great to but I think Irvine's Pulse Ammo is the fastest way, I actually show my Stats and Junction at the end of the video but I'm gonna put the screenshot :

Squall :



Irvine :



Quistis :



-Griever: It's honestly quite disappointing that he only got 3 attacks in your case, so I looked at his AI script again and found another, less obvious turn skip, which slows him down considerably. So removed this skip, and now he acts noticably faster. The third form has a similar turn skip as well, but it's difficult to remove without Ifrit enemy editor (the tool doesn't work very well with this enemy in general). I'll give it a try with manual hex editing though.

So some skipping turn again, figure I wonder why they did that when they developped the game, kinda curious, well if you can remove it that should be better effectivly.

-Final Ultimecia: The time lapse between "Draw Apocalypse" and actually casting Apocalypse isn't any longer than in the base game. It's just that in this mod, Ultimecia acts at times she normally wouldn't, so she now uses another move between these two actions, when she would normally just skip a turn. Making it so that she casts Apocalpyse immediately after drawing it from her lower half would be quite difficult to achieve due to the complexity of her AI script, and similar to the previous enemy, the Ifrit tool doesn't "like" her file very much, so a lot of manual editing would be necessary, at least if you want to keep her Ability that destroys GF. I'll try to make her use Vaporize a little more often, and Hell's Judgement less frequently when near death. Thanks.

I'm wondering actually I'm not that much of a GF user myself but considering you tried to make them more usefull end game, is it worth to keep the Final Boss just basically pulling a "Screw you" move for people who use GF ?
Otherwise Final Ultimecia is pretty good fight already, the few tweak you mention should put her in a good spot I think