Author Topic: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.2 & v1.0)  (Read 91934 times)

Callisto

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
« Reply #350 on: 2019-09-30 11:29:18 »
Quote from: Nesouk
Yeah I recheck it was XeroKynos's stream, didn't read the description saying it was v1.1.2, lifting the damage cap sounds good, I'm interest as how much damage Ultima can do end game, I saw in XeroKynos's stream Meteor seems to deal around 18-20k a cast on a target with Vit 0 so I'm wondering how Ultima will compare with damage cap remove, same for GF especially the elemental one when striking a weakness could be good.
Ultima can inflict around 12-13k on a target with Vit 0, but as most late-game bosses are immune to Vit 0, you probably won't see that very often. The average should be 9-10k, which is still a quite an improvement over the original version, in which Ultima does around 7k damage at most. Meteor is currently a little too strong in this mod, and will be put closer to Ultima levels of damage, so that Meteor does a slightly more damage than Ultima on a single enemy, but noticably less when hitting multiple targets. GF benefit from breaking the damage limit greatly. If you know about enemy elemental weaknesses and also their severity, they can be fun to use, if you don't mind the animations too much.

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Well Requiem and Reloaded had one thing in common since Aura was really hard to do, it end up like Magic was the safer option for good damage, while Limit Breaks were the high risk high reward (people underestimate Limit Break in Requiem but with Vit 0 Squall could deal up to around 60k with his Renzo, and Irvine was kind of OP between Dark Ammo for statut effect (even better in Reloaded as they can inflict Vit 0), AP Ammo to not give a damn about the ennemy defense, Fire Ammo for good AoE/Elemental damage and Pulse Ammo who could deal over a 100k in one round thanks to them breaking the damage limit (depending on Crisis Level and Critical Hit)), which I think was what makes Requiem fun, and it allow the Crisis Level mechanic to be really huge factor (while in Vanilla you don't give a strawberries about it because of Aura being so easy to access)
Yes, I noticed Pulse Ammo being extremely powerful in Requiem too. But that's not really surprising at all. I have to say that Irvine's Shot is possibly the most difficult Limit Break to get right balance-wise - not just in terms of raw power (as they scale very well with Strength) and crit chances, but also when it comes to accessibility of Ammo in general. In the original version, all Ammo except Pulse Ammo is very easy to come by, and not that much has changed about that in this mod yet. Do you remember how you got the Flame Ammo for the Oilboyle boss battle? I already reduced the numbers you can refine from Bomb Fragments and the like, but I'm not sure if it's enough to make Ammo feel like a valuable, limited resource.

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[...]modding development in general can be tricky (man how much trouble we had hunting down glitches and oversight like bosses not dying despite being at 0 HP or hitting themselves for some reasons[...]
Yes, I've noticed it all myself already. If you are not careful, you can make enemies counter themselves, or they don't die because a variable hasn't been set correctly, or it's something as simple as forgetting to put a "die" at the end of an enemy's Death tab.. But you are getting used to it after a while. Anyway, your efforts on the Reloaded mod seem to have paid off, as it seems to be in a quite good shape by now. Maybe I'll check it out myself someday, no matter the language.

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I can guarantee gameplay changes were applied from the get go, what happen is that I had RaW W07 Lite but my main RaW was W06 so I thinks that's why music wasn't working, up until now I was playing with RaW W07 lite (so no musics) so the change of gameplay were effectivly applied, I compare with XenoKyros's stream which I heard wasn't install properly in the beginning resulting in magical's damage from ennemies being way lower than you intended, as I was taking a lot more damage for Magical attacks like Ifrit's Lava Burst than him I think I can be assure that the gameplay changes were applied.
Ok, that explains everything. Good to know that all the changes worked correctly from the start.

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Must say I'm quite disappointed with the reward (I don't need Gold Armor and can't refine X-ATM092's card cause you need 10 of them) but at least 50 AP is nice to get.
Well, I know of a few mod testers who liked to use their GF as a shield in battle, so I thought Gold Armor would be a good fit for a sidequest reward. It's also one the items that are absurdly hard to come by in the original game, so I wanted to give a little more opportunities here. But I understand it feels disappointing for anyone who uses GF only rarely or not all. Maybe I'll switch it out, and put the Gold Armor elsewhere, so the victory over X-ATM092 feels more earned.

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-Edea : Probably the biggest let down of Disc 1's ending, the start was great I was genuily afraid of her Maelstrom setting Slow on all my team, but then she doesn't have the speed to back it up, I had all the time necessary to heal Slow with Haste, set Double and Shell on my characters, she is slow and can only attack 1 character at the same time, which makes her easy even in the last phase where she uses aga spell, Shell is mandatory so that she doesn't 1 shot, but if it happen it's pretty easy to recover, as for damage I was relying on Double -ra cast and Renzokuken, I think she need a little buff in speed and some AoE options, as of now she is the easiest fight of Disc 1's ending IMO.
I would really like to give Edea one more AoE besides Maelstrom, but the problem is the limited space for attacks for each enemy. And in the case of the first Edea battle, it's particularly sparse, as all of her lines count as an actual move. But I'll see what I can do to free up a little more space. As for her Speed, yes, she is quite slow, but that's intentional, as she is a Mage/Sorceress, a class who isn't known to be the fastest. I think the bigger problem is her still skipping a turn every now and then (25% at the moment). This will be reduced or even removed completely in the next version though.

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Laguna's third dream has a little fight against 2 Grendels, the can be berserk and slow which make them harmless, and I got lucky by turning them into Card I got 1 Catoblepas Card, which can be refine into a Black Hole to learn Degenerator to Quistis not sure if this intended.
Degenerator has its success rate reduced in this mod and more enemies are immune, but having the chance to get it early disc 2 was not really planned. Good that you noticed. I'll put in on the change list.

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Now for the Prison, I want to say Zell's Duel is still extremely good with No Crit I can still pull of over 6000 damage in 1 turn enough to kill any mobs in 1 turn (I'm quite interst to see how it will turn out late game), Quistis's Water Breath can break the 9999 limit on the Robots as they are weak to Water and she can kill pretty much anything with Degenerator anyway XD, so really the Prison was a walk in the park, this include the Final Fight which Quistis single handedly destroy with Water Breath she can kill the 2 Robots (they barely even got the time to act) in 2 turns then the Galbadian soldier is easily finish off by Squall using Darkside, Squall currently does 2000 damage with Darkside with no Junction to Elemental Attack by the way XD.
Do you remember how you did 6000 damage with Zell's Duel in one turn? Is it still the repeated use of Booya and Punch Rush? If so, then I don't really know how to make it less effective, other than removing the possibility of this combo altogether (their base values are already quite low). As for the lack of difficulty in D-District Prison, I think you had a certain advantage because you keep your levels rather low, as the GIM47Ns won't use their AoE skill on lower levels (all enemy levels will be fixed in the next version though, to keep perceived difficulty more constant throughout the game). In the Prison, it's actually risky to stay at low HP for longer periods of time, as there's also the Aqua Breath attack from Chimeras that can catch you off guard easily. As for Quistis Aqua Breath, yes, it's quite strong, especially in this area, as there are so many enemies weak to Water there. In other areas, it won't be as effective though, so I guess it's fine to leave it as it is.

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Then for the MD Level, has Tri-Faces been remove from here ? I couldn't find any wanted to get some Pains from them
Tri-Faces are still there and common at the lower areas of MD Levels. I would recommend the Oilboyle area, where Blobras and Blood Souls can be encountered as well.

Again, thanks a lot for your detailed reports. Some of it will be considered for the next version of this mod. Granaldo and Diablos are already changed based on some of your ideas. Hoping to get the new version done within the next couple of days (the last week target was a bit too optimistic).

Nesouk

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
« Reply #351 on: 2019-09-30 19:53:33 »
Ultima can inflict around 12-13k on a target with Vit 0, but as most late-game bosses are immune to Vit 0, you probably won't see that very often. The average should be 9-10k, which is still a quite an improvement over the original version, in which Ultima does around 7k damage at most. Meteor is currently a little too strong in this mod, and will be put closer to Ultima levels of damage, so that Meteor does a slightly more damage than Ultima on a single enemy, but noticably less when hitting multiple targets. GF benefit from breaking the damage limit greatly. If you know about enemy elemental weaknesses and also their severity, they can be fun to use, if you don't mind the animations too much.

AH Was expecting more of Ultima, but I guess that's fair enough, I really should give a fair shot to GF I'm just so use to not use them kind of hard to break that habit ^^

Yes, I noticed Pulse Ammo being extremely powerful in Requiem too. But that's not really surprising at all. I have to say that Irvine's Shot is possibly the most difficult Limit Break to get right balance-wise - not just in terms of raw power (as they scale very well with Strength) and crit chances, but also when it comes to accessibility of Ammo in general. In the original version, all Ammo except Pulse Ammo is very easy to come by, and not that much has changed about that in this mod yet. Do you remember how you got the Flame Ammo for the Oilboyle boss battle? I already reduced the numbers you can refine from Bomb Fragments and the like, but I'm not sure if it's enough to make Ammo feel like a valuable, limited resource.

Well yeah Irvine's Limit Break is hard to balance, heck even in Reloaded Irvine was kinda OP being the best damage dealer at all stage of the game with AP Shot for mid game, Fire Ammo for Fire weak ennemies (and even a decent AoE in general), Dark Shot has the single best way to set Vit 0 (which in Reloaded still work on every ennemies like Requiem) and Pulse Ammo for late game damage.
Maybe you could do something similar to what mexicon did in Reloaded, originally I suggested to remove Ammo-RF but that was a bit extreme, so mexico decide to just make the troublesome Ammos (mainly Dark Ammo and Pulse Ammo, AP Ammo was losing potency later in the game due to not breaking the 9999 damage, and Fire Ammo is situationnal) limited in the game, meaning you can't farm them there's just a fix amount in the game and no more which makes the player think twice before spamming them, maybe you could do that I don't know yet which ammo are the most powerfull tough.
As for Fire Ammo I get them from Fuel which can be refine into 20 Fire Ammo, you can buy them in shop which I didn't do but I dropped a lot of Fuel from the GIM52A in the Prison, so combine with Bomb Fragment I got 100 Fire Ammo fairly easily, in fact I still have 7 Fuels to spare so 140 Fire Ammo.

Well, I know of a few mod testers who liked to use their GF as a shield in battle, so I thought Gold Armor would be a good fit for a sidequest reward. It's also one the items that are absurdly hard to come by in the original game, so I wanted to give a little more opportunities here. But I understand it feels disappointing for anyone who uses GF only rarely or not all. Maybe I'll switch it out, and put the Gold Armor elsewhere, so the victory over X-ATM092 feels more earned.

To be fair it's partly my fault, GF seems to be really good in your mod, I really should try them more, I'm just reluctant due to past playthrough from Vanilla, and neither Requiem or Reloaded manage to make them usefull, so I will try to play them more from now on.

I would really like to give Edea one more AoE besides Maelstrom, but the problem is the limited space for attacks for each enemy. And in the case of the first Edea battle, it's particularly sparse, as all of her lines count as an actual move. But I'll see what I can do to free up a little more space. As for her Speed, yes, she is quite slow, but that's intentional, as she is a Mage/Sorceress, a class who isn't known to be the fastest. I think the bigger problem is her still skipping a turn every now and then (25% at the moment). This will be reduced or even removed completely in the next version though.

AH Yeah that 1/3 chances of skipping turn, yeah I remember this pissing off mexico during Reloaded's development ^^, and worst being that apparently some ennemies just completly glitch out if you try to remove it (Most noticeable in Reloaded being Ultimecia's third form, which is the easiest of the final fight in Reloaded because of this). Couldn't you remove some of their lines ? Like the one where she taunts the character mid battle is just a waste of time.

Do you remember how you did 6000 damage with Zell's Duel in one turn? Is it still the repeated use of Booya and Punch Rush? If so, then I don't really know how to make it less effective, other than removing the possibility of this combo altogether (their base values are already quite low).

OH No Booya and Punch Rush have been nerf down to the point it's honnestly pointless to use them, however Heel Drop, Mach Kick and Dolphin Blow are still strong on GIM47N Heel Drop does 400-450, Mach Kick does 550-600 and Dolphin Blow 780-820, basically I just try a chain with as much as these as I can so 6000 on GIM47N (without Vit 0) in 5 seconds.

As for the lack of difficulty in D-District Prison, I think you had a certain advantage because you keep your levels rather low, as the GIM47Ns won't use their AoE skill on lower levels (all enemy levels will be fixed in the next version though, to keep perceived difficulty more constant throughout the game). In the Prison, it's actually risky to stay at low HP for longer periods of time, as there's also the Aqua Breath attack from Chimeras that can catch you off guard easily. As for Quistis Aqua Breath, yes, it's quite strong, especially in this area, as there are so many enemies weak to Water there. In other areas, it won't be as effective though, so I guess it's fine to leave it as it is.

Chimera's Aqua Breath caught me off guard the first time but didn't kill me, after the first tough I just junction 100 Water to elemental Defense so I was fine, my only concern about Aqua Breath is Cactuar, Jumbo Cactuar and Ultimecia's third form (unless you changed it she take Triple Damage from Water), tough if it's only the Prison and them I guess it's fine.

Tri-Faces are still there and common at the lower areas of MD Levels. I would recommend the Oilboyle area, where Blobras and Blood Souls can be encountered as well.

Guess I should have just persevere, well to bad for me I guess, OH well it will just delay the time I will get Pains.

By the way I fight Norg, well I have no complain on this one really it's a really well done fight, Norg has enough HP to take a lot punishment without it feeling like a marathon so you need to do a lot of damage but he also does a lot of damage that you have to recover or protect from, he buff himself so you need to debuff him and all of that while preventing the Eye from turning Red so a really good fight as their is a bunch of thing to watch out for and always something to do, so I don't think this fight can be better outside of maybe giving him the possibility to inflict Statut Effects, and maybe reduce the amount HP of his Pod, the fight gets interesting once he is out of the pod, the pod phase feel unecessary to be honnest, other than that it's honnestly my favorite fight up to now, as for damage Squall's Darkside with Aero to Elemental ttack does over 3000 and Rinoa with aero hit for 1800 Irvine was mostly on support.

Nsandro

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
« Reply #352 on: 2019-09-30 22:43:42 »
Hello,

Any chance to see this awesome mod in Remastered version?

thank you

Nesouk

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
« Reply #353 on: 2019-10-03 12:14:48 »
Keep going through :

-Tank second round (always forgot his name) : Way easier than the first time but I guess story wise it make sense, basically he really hate Water, and is quite slow, I quite didn't his Laser once.

-Centra : So first off good thing you add a fight there before Odin, that fight caught me off guard and I got killed once cause I wasn't prepare for it, the second time around got some Water and Earth protection, found out the Armadillo can be Zombified so I did that and throw Life to Instant-kill them, once alone the Chimaira is easy to deal with despite her Thundaga seriously hurting, good thing however we can go out of Centra and reenter to reset the timer, despite Odin's complaining XD

-Odin : So he is just like vanilla and does absolutly nothing, so yeah easy boss there, manage to steal Luck-J Scroll from him then I just spam Zell and Squall limit breaks and Double Water until he goes down, he has quite a lot of health but that's about it.

-Tomberry Sr : Man I swear I love Reloaded for having to just kill one Tonberry in order to fight Tonberry Senior, having to kill 20 tonberries is just dumbest thing in this game, OH well at least it allows me to get a bunch Chief's Knife to refine into AP Ammo. As for Tonberry Senior he is pathetically easy, really this guy is nothing but a giant HP Sponge, tough I don't know if I get Lucky but he didn't use Junk at all during the entire fight, so I just keep Quistis and Irvine low HP and spam their Limit Break while Squall was on support, by the way Irvine AP Shot is good was doing 750 damage per shot at the time (now probably more since I have better Junction) and over 1500 with Critical hit I can shot 3 up to 6 Ammos a time so that's 2250 up to 9000 depending of Crisis Level and Crits so pretty good.

-Fujin and Raijin : The fight against Raijin and 2 Soldier is just warm up so I didn't expect it to pose a challenge at all, so for Fujin and Raijin I think this fight could be interesting but it need some works, first off they can be Slow and once you Slow them both this fight becomes a complete joke as they will never be able to keep with your healing, the only dangerous attack is Raijin Special as it deals over 2800 without Protect so Protect is pretty much mandatory for surviving this attack, other than that Raijin doesn't do anything special, and also him doing a Hi Potion + is just laugheable I can hit him for 7000 damage with Double Bio, so what is the purpose of this I think you should replace the Hi Potion + by something else. Fujin does nothing but Wind Magic as long as you don't Draw Pandemona, after you draw it she starts using physical her normal attacks inflicting Slow and Poison can be annoying but again since she can be slow I can keep up with her, and by herself as long has you have Wind Resistance (I had Aero + Float junction to elemental defense on all character) she doesn't have any ability capable of doing dangerous damage outside of Sai reducing HP of 1 character to 1.
I also try the fight without Slow, it is still easy, just don't draw Pandemona while Raijin is around to prevent Fujin to do Sai (can be dangerous if Raijin is around as this potentially gives him the opportunity to kill a character) or her normal attack with statut effect overall I think this fight need some serious work, I think make at least one of them immune to Slow or give them some counter ability so that even slowed they can fight back, maybe give some other spells to Fujin Tornado is fine but Aero is honnestly kind of a joke at this point and making her able to use all of her attacks even when Pandemona is drawn and lastly Raijin's Hi Potion + should be replace by something else it's honnestly completly useless at this point of the game as we can deal over 7000 damage to him.

Callisto

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
« Reply #354 on: 2019-10-03 14:01:20 »
@Nesouk:

-Ammo Availability: Ok, will do something similar, without making any Ammo type finite, though. Further reducing refine rates for Ammo and item drops should do for now. Some of them are still too generous, especially for Fire Ammo.

-Edea: Yes, removing one of her taunts sounds good. Her new AoE will be one-time only though, as she will have her turn skips removed. Both regular AoE and no turn skips would probably be a bit too much to be honest.

-Duel: Not sure about reducing the other moves besides Punch Rush and Booya yet. It would be good if you had an eye on how Duel performs for you against enemies in the late-game, as most of them (especially bosses) have noticably higher Vitality than enemies like the GIM47A, and are mostly immune to Vit 0. If by then you still feel like Duel is too strong, then some adjustments should be made for sure.

-Aqua Breath: I was very cautious in regards to its damage against Jumbo Cactuar and Ultimecia's third form, so they have had their weakness against Water reduced and defensive stats increased. It will still be strong, but not strong enough to finish these bosses within just a couple of turns (at least not with Water attacks alone).

As for your latest post, I kind of regret not having finished the mod's new version earlier, as almost all the things you mentioned will be changed in one way or another, especially in Centra Ruins. Would have been a good opportunity to get some feedback right away, but well... As for Tonberry, you are right, reducing the kills required to make Tonberry King appear is a good idea, yet somehow it has never crossed my mind. Just noticed that it's actually a quite easy thing to do. Everything else was already on the list, but thanks anyway.

@Nsandro: I can't guarantee anything yet, but it's definitely planned to be compatible with the Remastered version at some point. Will start to look at it thoroughly soon.

Nesouk

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
« Reply #355 on: 2019-10-03 14:27:06 »
As for your latest post, I kind of regret not having finished the mod's new version earlier, as almost all the things you mentioned will be changed in one way or another, especially in Centra Ruins. Would have been a good opportunity to get some feedback right away, but well... As for Tonberry, you are right, reducing the kills required to make Tonberry King appear is a good idea, yet somehow it has never crossed my mind. Just noticed that it's actually a quite easy thing to do. Everything else was already on the list, but thanks anyway.

A good thing with me I'm the kind of guy who does like 500 different save files XD, so if you were to release a new version I don't mind going back a bit for giving feedback, when do you the new version will be finish ? if not to long then I might pause my playthrough and continue once you update, would be pointless to give feedback on things you already plan to modify, on other subjects :

-Ammo Availability: Ok, will do something similar, without making any Ammo type finite, though. Further reducing refine rates for Ammo and item drops should do for now. Some of them are still too generous, especially for Fire Ammo.

That could work, for Fire Ammo I would suggest remove the Fuel from shop, this is pointless item to buy otherwise and the fact it's available pretty much anywhere make Fire Ammo really easy to get. On subject of Irvine's Limit break power since you say to have immune boss to Vit 0 Armor Shot is the one that worry me the most, currently on Cerberus I'm doing around 1000-1100 per shots (double if it Crit (it help Irvine has a good Base Luck with 100 Death and Luck+30% he has like a 30% crit rate currently) so with 3 to 6 shots I mention earlier that's 3000-3300 to 12000-13200, very unlikely to reach this tough often I say I get an average of 2 crit when shoting 6 ammos so that's more 8000 to 8800.

-Edea: Yes, removing one of her taunts sounds good. Her new AoE will be one-time only though, as she will have her turn skips removed. Both regular AoE and no turn skips would probably be a bit too much to be honest.

Will see how it turn out then.

-Duel: Not sure about reducing the other moves besides Punch Rush and Booya yet. It would be good if you had an eye on how Duel performs for you against enemies in the late-game, as most of them (especially bosses) have noticably higher Vitality than enemies like the GIM47A, and are mostly immune to Vit 0. If by then you still feel like Duel is too strong, then some adjustments should be made for sure.

It certainly is to early to judge if Duel is to strong or not especially considering I'm not using high tier magic yet (I've got some tough), I'must say tough that it's the most fun Limit Break to use, since the easy way of spamming Booya and Punch Rush is out of the way I have to found new combos, so on that aspect you manage to make it more fun, by the is Meteor Strike still a Gravity move ? Or did you make it a physical attack, I haven't test it yet.
Edit : Tested Meteor Strike is physical attack good thing, for now with 115 str and a crit rate of around 28%, I was able to get almost 14000 damage on a Hexdragon with a timer of 5.66 seconds as for the combo I do it goes as follow :

Punch Rush (starting) > Dolphin Blow > Mach Kick > Dolphin Blow > Meteor Strike > Dolphin Blow > Mach Kick > Dolphin Blow > Mach Kick > Dolphin Blow > Meteor Strike....etc...

I'm seeking for a better combo (potentially one that would get more Meteor Strike) currently and still haven't be able to run a damage test with better timer.

EDIT 3 : Manage to test with the highest timer possible of 9.33 second manage to deal almost 21000 damage still on Hexdragon, wonder how it will go against high vit bosses.

-Aqua Breath: I was very cautious in regards to its damage against Jumbo Cactuar and Ultimecia's third form, so they have had their weakness against Water reduced and defensive stats increased. It will still be strong, but not strong enough to finish these bosses within just a couple of turns (at least not with Water attacks alone).

OK that's a good thing to hear, I guess I will see how it goes.
« Last Edit: 2019-10-03 16:10:33 by Nesouk »

Callisto

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
« Reply #356 on: 2019-10-03 16:29:52 »
A good thing with me I'm the kind of guy who does like 500 different save files XD, so if you were to release a new version I don't mind going back a bit for giving feedback, when do you the new version will be finish ? if not to long then I might pause my playthrough and continue once you update, would be pointless to give feedback on things you already plan to modify, on other subjects :
Ok, it would certainly help if you could retest certain things (especially Centra Ruins) after the new version is up. It should be finished by the end of this week.

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That could work, for Fire Ammo I would suggest remove the Fuel from shop, this is pointless item to buy otherwise and the fact it's available pretty much anywhere make Fire Ammo really easy to get. On subject of Irvine's Limit break power since you say to have immune boss to Vit 0 Armor Shot is the one that worry me the most, currently on Cerberus I'm doing around 1000-1100 per shots (double if it Crit (it help Irvine has a good Base Luck with 100 Death and Luck+30% he has like a 30% crit rate currently) so with 3 to 6 shots I mention earlier that's 3000-3300 to 12000-13200, very unlikely to reach this tough often I say I get an average of 2 crit when shoting 6 ammos so that's more 8000 to 8800.
Armor Shot damage will max out at around 5500 HP per shot if Irvine's Strength is at 255, so damage will fluctuate between 16,000 and 33,000 HP, (critical hits excluded) depending on Crisis Level. It also has the lowest base critical rate out of all Ammo types, so I don't think it will be overly powerful in the late-game, when bosses have 100,000 HP or more, unless you seriously put some work on Irvine's Luck stat. Armor Shot has actually been nerfed two times in this mod already, but if you think it's still too powerful, don't hesitate to tell. Maybe changing the formula for physical attacks and critical hit calculation / Luck will be inevitable sooner or later, to get more pleasing results overall.

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It certainly is to early to judge if Duel is to strong or not especially considering I'm not using high tier magic yet (I've got some tough), I'must say tough that it's the most fun Limit Break to use, since the easy way of spamming Booya and Punch Rush is out of the way I have to found new combos, so on that aspect you manage to make it more fun, by the is Meteor Strike still a Gravity move ? Or did you make it a physical attack, I haven't test it yet.
Meteor Strike has been changed from a Gravity attack to a physical attack that ignores enemy Vitality, so Duel is not totally worthless against high Vit enemies. Base power is between Mach Kick and Dolphin Blow, and its input should take a little longer than most other moves, so I think it's in an ok spot. But of course it would be interesting what you think after some testing on your own.

What are your character levels at the moment by the way? I wonder if you still have a certain advantage over normal enemies because their levels are rather low. Hexadragons in G-Garden will be around LV 40 fixed in the upcoming version, so if you face only LV 20 ones at the moment due to own levels, that would be quite a difference.
« Last Edit: 2019-10-03 16:42:47 by Callisto »

Nesouk

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
« Reply #357 on: 2019-10-03 19:35:42 »
Armor Shot damage will max out at around 5500 HP per shot if Irvine's Strength is at 255, so damage will fluctuate between 16,000 and 33,000 HP, (critical hits excluded) depending on Crisis Level. It also has the lowest base critical rate out of all Ammo types, so I don't think it will be overly powerful in the late-game, when bosses have 100,000 HP or more, unless you seriously put some work on Irvine's Luck stat. Armor Shot has actually been nerfed two times in this mod already, but if you think it's still too powerful, don't hesitate to tell. Maybe changing the formula for physical attacks and critical hit calculation / Luck will be inevitable sooner or later, to get more pleasing results overall.

Well I plan on eventually doing kind of a Crit build on Irvine, since he already has the highest Luck of 3 dudes and is arguably the character that beneficiate the most of an high crit rate so I planned on taking advantage of it, I guess I'll see how he turns out.

Meteor Strike has been changed from a Gravity attack to a physical attack that ignores enemy Vitality, so Duel is not totally worthless against high Vit enemies. Base power is between Mach Kick and Dolphin Blow, and its input should take a little longer than most other moves, so I think it's in an ok spot. But of course it would be interesting what you think after some testing on your own.

What are your character levels at the moment by the way? I wonder if you still have a certain advantage over normal enemies because their levels are rather low. Hexadragons in G-Garden will be around LV 40 fixed in the upcoming version, so if you face only LV 20 ones at the moment due to own levels, that would be quite a difference.

My LV were Squall LV37, Zell LV25, Selphie LV20 so an average of 27 definitly not LV40 altough I could use the LVUP ability to test on a higher LV Hexdragon actually I might do that.

Actually Meteor Strike's input for me are easier to perform than Dolphin Blow so that's not an issue to me, it seems to be less frequent than Dolphin Blow who seems to be everywhere XD, but like I said I think I'm to early in the game to really judge, I read in this thread that magic casting is OP, and seems to be the way to go (especially if the opponent has an Elemental weakness), for now it goes like this on an Hexdragon with the average LV I said :

-Zell's Duel is for now does up 21k in 1 turn or even more with crit
-Irvine's damage vary a lot depending on Crisis Level and Critical Hits currently up to around 8000-8800 a turn
-Squall's renzokuken currently does around 950-1050 per hit so that's 3800 up to 8400 and Fated Circle does around 2200 (it can crit dor Double) so Squall can currentyl reach up to 12k-12.8k if Fated Circle crit.
-Squall with 100 Water to Elemental attack can also deal around 8500 damage with Darkside, so yeah in the case of Squall Darkside compete with his Limit Break ^^
-Selphie with 136 in magic can deal around 6800 damage with 1 Water cast (meaning with Triple (tough I need to manage a Cerberus summon if I want it) it's 20400)
-Quistis with 140 in magic can deal 16500 with Aqua Breath
-Rinoa with 168 in magic deal 7500 a water cast (so 22500 with Triple)

So for now Zell has the best damage against neutral foe, if there is an Elemental weakness like Hexdragon tough magic is the way to go.

Nsandro

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
« Reply #358 on: 2019-10-03 19:49:59 »
Quote
@Nsandro: I can't guarantee anything yet, but it's definitely planned to be compatible with the Remastered version at some point. Will start to look at it thoroughly soon.

Thank you.

Im lvl28 in G-Garden and Cerber crush me easy, so my lvl is to low or its very hard ? ^^

Can you tell me if this mod http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=15354.0 is useless with yours ?

Thank you.

Nesouk

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
« Reply #359 on: 2019-10-04 05:10:07 »
Im lvl28 in G-Garden and Cerber crush me easy, so my lvl is to low or its very hard ? ^^

I just beat him yesterday around that LV, he can be tough if unprepare, but junction Aero and Float to Elemental defense Junction, Berserk to Statut Defense Junction, set Protect ASAP and NEVER let him in Triple if he cast Triple just Dispel him, as for offense personnaly I was keeping Irvine at low HP and spamming Armor Shot but you can do that with anyone.

Callisto

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #360 on: 2019-10-07 14:59:45 »
Version 1.1.5 now available

Changes Overview

Enemies
  • All enemy levels are now fixed, not just bosses, to further encourage leveling up and keep perceived difficulty more constant throughout the game.
  • Turn skips have been removed for most enemies, and have been preserved only for enemies that use major counter attacks or are just very fast.
  • Sacred's base chance to inflict Confuse has been reduced to around 50% (and can be further reduced by Vit and Stat Def junctions).
  • Malboro's Bad Breath status infliction rate has been reduced.
  • Hitrate for physical attacks has been generally increased.
  • Certain enemy AoE attacks such as Grendel's Thunder Breath or Granaldo's Poison Gas inflict less damage.
  • Stat changes have been applied to many enemies in general.

Spells, Card Mod and Refinement
  • Meteor base power has been reduced.
  • Base power of Flare, Holy and Ultima has been slightly increased.
  • Regen, Death and Meltdown have been removed from early-game Card Mod.
  • Grendels can still be turned into Catoblepas Cards/Black Holes/Degenerator, but Eject resistance has been increased for some enemies.
  • Ammo refinement is now less generous and relevant items drop in fewer numbers.
  • Some more insanely uneconomic Refine Rates have been spotted and adjusted.

Boss changes

Almost all bosses have been changed in some way. The most notable changes are as follows:
  • Granaldo uses an additional attack when on the battlefield alone.
  • Diablos casts Haste on himself after his HP drop below 50%; counters Draw Cast Demis as well.
  • Iguions use a new move when on the battlefield alone.
  • Edea (1st) uses an AoE up to two times per battle.
  • BGH251F2 in FH has been changed to some kind of durability battle.
  • Odin unleashes a powerful attack every 4 turns.
  • Tonberry King has some changes to his attacks.
  • Fujin & Raijin in Balamb have been generally overhauled.
  • Adel has access to two additional attacks.
  • Krysta is more durable and has changes to its attack pattern.
  • Ultimecia (1st) is more structured, can no longer spam the same move multiple times in a row.

Pigtail Girl sidequest

It has recently become known that Zell receives a spell during one of the events in Balamb Garden's library, depending on the survey answers from one of the previous events. The player can pick Zell's favorite color and food from 3 selections each, so there's a total of 9 different outcomes, and therefore 9 different spells Zell can get. The rewards are a little underwhelming in the base game, so they have been improved in this version of the mod. Credits go to gamefaqs user aladore384 and myst6re for discovering this. The rewards are as follows:

Code: [Select]
Base game
Red Blue Pink
Beef 1x Meteor 1x Scan 1x Demi
Fish 1x Triple 1x Holy 1x Ultima
Hot dogs 1x Shell 1x Full-life 1x Zombie

New
Red Blue Pink
Beef 10x Meteor 100x Scan 50x Demi
Fish 5x Triple 10x Holy 5x Ultima
Hot dogs 10x Renew 10x Full-life 100x Zombie


Other changes
  • At Centra Ruins, the way back will be blocked after examining the blue orb, and if the timer runs out, it's Game Over instead of just being thrown out.
  • At Missile Base, an extra battle can be triggered when visiting it on disc 1.
  • A new sidequest is available in Dollet. Talk to the girl at the beach if she is alone to initiate it.
  • Another sidequest is available in Esthar after the Lunar Cry. Talk to the assistant in Dr. Odine's laboratory to initiate it.
  • Irvine's previously hidden critical hit chances for each of his weapons can now be viewed in Weapons Monthly magazines.
  • The Queen of Cards generally plays stronger cards than before.
  • Some more overpriced items have been spotted and reduced in cost (Draw Scroll, HP-J Scroll etc).
  • The number of Tonberries that need to be killed to make the Tonberry King appear has been reduced from 20 to 8.
  • A few Draw Point contents have been changed.
  • Gilgamesh can be aquired again if there are no Amethysts in inventory when battling Seifer inside Lunatic Pandora.

A list that contains the most important Cards/Items/Spells swaps will soon follow.


@Nsandro: Yes, Hard Mode is compatible with this mod, but keep in mind that enemy physical damage will be 1.5 times higher than intended, and own physical attacks weaker than intended.

@Nesouk: I haven't made any changes to Duel yet, but maybe will soon, depending on how Duel performs for you late-game. I think it's ok if it's stronger than other Limit Breaks in many situations, as in return, it requires more skill to be used efficiently, and using it to full extent is quite time-consuming, and therefore dps is rather low, but we'll see.
« Last Edit: 2019-10-08 15:02:08 by Callisto »

Nsandro

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #361 on: 2019-10-08 13:23:15 »
Nice, thank you for this update !

edit : in centra , if we leave , tomberry kill is no more reset?
« Last Edit: 2019-10-08 20:26:00 by Nsandro »

Nesouk

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #362 on: 2019-10-08 19:29:49 »
Alright so Centra 2.0 (gonna put on spoiler in case other players doesn't want to spoil it) :

Spoiler: show
OH Boy it was like I was routing a speedrun XD, had to retry several time until having a good plan, tough I was probably at a disadvantage since now every monster has fix LV I assume if I would have play the mod like that since the beginning I probably would have been at an higher LV and more powerfull magic, anyway so beat Odin with around 2:00 left, 1 good thing however it seems the code for Odin's chamber never change  once you enter Centra for the first time, so once you get it memorize the first time if you die you just have to go take the Eye at the top, come back put on the statue above Odin's chamber and put the same code directly, this is good as it win a bunch of time due to that ferning animation when climbing to the statue abover Odin's chamber so the plan is as follow :

-Get to the Blue Orb
-Before interacting with the blue get out of Centra and come back to have more time.
-Defeat the monsters
-Goes to Odin's chamber
-Beat Odin

As for the fights :

-Chimaira + 2 Armadillos : The fastest way I found is put the 2 Armadillos on Berserk then on Zombie kill them with Life since they are in Berserk this prevent them from using Earthquake before dying. The Chimaira is really annoying tough, she has no weakness, no usefull statut ailment works against her and even Demi doesn't work as a result she is a big waste of time, fastest way I found is put Vit 0 with Meltdown, lower Squall's HP and spam his Limit Break.

-Odin : So his new attack Heaven's Wrath despite the name and the animation it doesn't seem to be Lightning elemental weird, so it does 3000 damage and inflict stop, so it's a one shot for me at this point without Shell at first I really didn't see how to beat him before the time reach 0 he has a good defense and lot of HP, is immune to Vit 0 and Demi to (again spamming magic with -aga tier probably would have work but I didn't have any), so my strategy was spamming Squall and Zell limit break with Quistis who has 100 Stop and 100 Reflect junction to statu defense to get immune to Stop as a support so basically :

-At the beginning I put Shell and Double on Quistis.
-Then I wait for him to attack, I then use Double Life on Squall and Zell
-I use Double Cura with Quistis to heal her then she just wait for the next Heaven's Wrath, I use Zell and Squall's Limit break, Squall does 350 per hit but Fated Circle can go up 1700 or double if it crit (very rare), as for Zell well I have the advantage of knowing where Meteor Strike is so despite it being invisible I can use it ^^ and it's good here as Odin has a good physical defense, Dolphin Blow and Mach Kick are decent  but clearly inferior to Meteor Strike who does around 900 in this fight.
-Repeat

So yeah safe strategy but it does work I had 2:00 and reach Odin at around 12:00, so quite fun but will definitly require some die and retry to be done properly, tough again maybe it's just that I'm underlevel and don't have best magics so in this case I think it's fine if I can beat this while being underprepare then someone with better stuff should succeed without to much trouble.

EDIT : As for Tomberry Senior, beat him with the same strat as before no difference, the only difference I notice is that his normal attack does Curse which is of no consequence to me cause the character that I plan to use Limit Break are always on Low HP so they will die from his hit anyway, still didn't see Junk so he is still just an HP Sponge to me.

Will try Fujin and Raijin next.


Quote
edit : in centra , if we leave , tomberry kill is no more reset?

Tomberry kill is never reset I don't know where that legend come from but even in Vanilla you can perfectly kill like 17 tonberries in Disc 2, then progress to the story until Disc 4 and come and you will only have to kill 3 Tonberries, the Tonberry kill will only reset if you make Tonberry King appear and run away from him.
« Last Edit: 2019-10-09 05:49:04 by Nesouk »

Nsandro

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #363 on: 2019-10-09 08:34:01 »
I read that in my official guide from Peggyback, "Il vous faut maintenant tuer 20 tomberry sans sortir des ruines" and if i translate "You must now kill 20 tomberry without leaving the ruins". i thinks the translation is missing something like " You can leave the ruins for save , but you cant fight another monster because it will reset all tomberry kill"

Thank you

Callisto

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #364 on: 2019-10-09 12:16:05 »
@Nsandro: Yes, it is as Nesouk said. You can safely escape the Centra Ruins without having to worry about the Tonberry kill counter, as long as you don't interact with the blue orb on the upper levels (if you do, your party will be trapped inside the ruins until Odin is defeated).

@Nesouk:

Spoiler: show
As for Odin, leveling up more would have helped a little indeed. With Regen (from the Guards in D-District Prison) on HP and levels around 30-35, HP would have been over 3000, which should be enough to survive Odin's Heaven's Wrath attack safely with all characters. It's not thunder elemental for now as the fight would likely become too easy otherwise. The idea behind this was to create a battle in which the Spirit stat is of utmost importance, especially in regards to minimize the chance of the entire party falling victim to the Stop effect (it's not very high to begin with, but sometimes happens if Spirit stats are too low). But it's good to know that you managed to win the battle with just one character immune to Stop and durable enough to survive Heaven's Wrath, although I can imagine it was very close.

Other than that, some more things would have helped. For example, Chimera only has low resistance against Degenerator, and maybe it would have been better to make Quistis one of your attackers instead of Zell, as Quistis can use Acid, which ignores enemy Spirit and is faster than Zell's Duel (total damage is lower than a well-performed Duel, but time matters more in this battle). It's also possible to make Odin Vit 0 using Quistis' Ray-Bomb Limit Break, but getting Power Generators is difficult when attempting Centra Ruins at the first opportunity. It's also a good idea to defeat Tonberry King before Odin, so you can draw Curaga from him which is a great help against Odin because of the good junctions effects on HP and Spirit. The ladder climbing speed in the ruins is indeed low and annoying. I'll look for a way to increase it.

In regards to Tonberry King not using his Junk attack, I've just realized what was going on in your case. He is meant to counter with it after he has taken either physical or magical damage five times, but for some reason, Quistis' and Irvine's Limit Breaks will not add towards this meter, despite actually being physical and magical attacks (that's also why the normal Tonberry never counters their Limit Break with Everyone's Grudge). I'll change the counter condition to a general counter, no matter what Tonberry King was last hit with, as being able to circumvent a major counter by just spamming Limit Breaks is not how it should be.

Anyway, thank you for testing the new version so soon. Just to say it advance, Raijin will still use Hi-Potion+, I forgot to change this to Cura.
« Last Edit: 2019-10-09 12:40:27 by Callisto »

Nesouk

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #365 on: 2019-10-09 19:20:33 »
I read that in my official guide from Peggyback, "Il vous faut maintenant tuer 20 tomberry sans sortir des ruines" and if i translate "You must now kill 20 tomberry without leaving the ruins". i thinks the translation is missing something like " You can leave the ruins for save , but you cant fight another monster because it will reset all tomberry kill"

AH French guy to, yeah for some reason this is a common mistake in french guide and website.

@Callisto :

Spoiler: show
AH I didn't know Acid ignore Defense, in that case then yes replacing Squall by Quistis as the attacker and maybe stocking up AP Ammos with Irvine would have been more effective for Odin, also I always fight Odin first before Tomberry cause to be honnest I despise being on a timer for a boss fight XD.

As for Tonberry Junk "countdown" I should have figure that's already the case in Reloaded, also Zell's Duel wasn't adding to Tonberry's counter cause my refight was with Zell instead of Irvine, also Irvine's limit break is just weird as to how the game handle it like it's suppose to be physical I think BUT :

-His Limit Break doesn't wake up sleeped ennemies unlike Squall's Renzokuken.
-When taking an ennemy with a back attack Irvine's Limit Break doesn't make them turn around (meaning all Irvine's Shots will deal Double Damage in that case).

I don't know if these are just dev's oversights, also the game handle it like an AoE for ennemy's counter, so if you have 2 ennemies that can counter, even if you focus all your shots on 1 ennemy both ennemies will counter XD


EDIT : So for Fujin and Raijin so I fight them without Slow (I didn't try actually so don't know if you immune them or not), so the fight honnestly kind of feel the same, also I actually manage to kill Raijin before he uses Hi-Potion + so whatever you put at the place of the Hi-Potion + just know that it can be skipped, and I did that just by spamming Double Bio on him I suppose this is due to the turn skip unless you manage to remove it from Raijin (I know mexico didn't succeed at it, Raijin is one of the few bosses he didn't found a way to remove it without turning the game into a graphical mess), also Fujin is fragile to physical (5000 with Squall's Darkside) and Metsu is a golden occasion to use Limit Break since it does good damage and Poison boosting the crisis level, the part where she put Aura Stone into a Metsu was interesting but then she use a new attack Aerial Slash who honnestly is a none issue with 70% Wind resistance, actually I wonder if the Aura Stone was for her or for Raijin since I kill Raijin just before she uses it, I honnestly have trouble seeing how we could improve this fight without breaking it's idea (Raijin being the physical dude who hit like a truck and take little damage from physical but weak against magical and Fujin more of a glass canon) or entering into hard mod territory.
« Last Edit: 2019-10-09 20:10:49 by Nesouk »

Nsandro

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #366 on: 2019-10-10 10:34:58 »
I see Mcindus release i lot of update for remastered version, i hope this mod going to be compatible with FF8R very soon ^^

Where i can give you donation?

Thx

Callisto

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #367 on: 2019-10-11 02:08:02 »
@Nesouk:

That's some interesting observations regarding Irvine's Limit Break, especially the handling as AoE for counters. I didn't knew that. Sounds like an oversight to me, but I don't think it can be corrected easily. I managed to change Tonberry King's counter behavior though, so that all kinds of Limit Break will add to his counter, and not just a few, like Squall's. Probably wouldn't have noticed this without your help, so thank you. It's always surprising to learn something new about this game after all these years.

Raijin doesn't have any random turn skips in his script, but he will idle if there's only one female party member alive while Fujin is alive, and if Fujin is above 50% max HP (otherwise, he would occasionally heal her). I think you didn't see his healing as you finished him off too fast with Double Bio, and also because of the fact that he uses his healing only once when near death. I haven't noticed the latter until very recently, so I will change the moment he uses his heal to something sooner, and will also increase their defenses a little, so their weak spots aren't as glaring anymore (but of course still weaknesses worth abusing). They can still be slowed down by the way, but their resistance is higher than before, and Aerial Slash was added to have something stronger than Aero, but yes - when at 70% Wind resistance from Aero and Float, it's no problem at all. But better to not go overboard, as you said.


@Nsandro:

I hope so too, and it looks like I can work with most of the files that are relevant to gameplay. Still unsure about a few because of tool incompatibility with the new files (like mngrp.bin that has all the refine data) but in case of doubt, I'll have to apply the changes by hand. I'll send you a PM regarding donation, thanks.

Nesouk

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #368 on: 2019-10-12 19:51:31 »
HA I forgot 1 thing about Odin, considering your change maybe it might be better to increase the chance to mug his Luck-J Scroll or make it a reward for winning the fight cause honnestly it's kind of luck base to win the fight with mugging the Luck J Scroll as mugging bosses is kind of a pain in the ass and can take quite some tries before succeeding.

Anyway as for end of Disc 2 especially G-Garden, I like that you add an extra battle when recovering the first Key, but why not go further and do it for all 3 keys ? Would make senses, as for the bosses :

-Cerberus : I haven't try him in the last update so maybe what I will say is outdate (I actually fought him last week forgot to report about him ^^), sadly I forgot to keep a save right before him, so I had to replay some part in order to fight him again, anyway he seems to love using Quake so naturally some Earth protection is needed, he has a good defense so I decide to rely on Irvine's AP Shots, as for when he uses Triple I don't know what spell he can use and honnestly I don't care, the simple fact that when in his Triple stance he counter with a guaranteed Critical Hit was enough to set my mind on dispeling him right away goddamn his counter hurts, so yeah I just keep him dispelled, use Irvine's AP Shot whenever I got the chance and Squall and Quistis as back up also he doesn't have Spd-J Scroll to steal anymore well that's unfortunate for me ^^.

-Seifer : Very easy, I can actually kill him with 2 Duels if I get lucky and got a good timer, an easy strat to cheese him is to make the middle character which was Squall with Cover cast Protect and shell on him then cast Reflect on the other as long as I keep Squall alive the 2 other are invincible and he can't one shot him (his Demon Slice does 3000 damage with Protect tough), so the 2 other team mates are free to spam their Limit Break or do whatever they want ^^.

-Seifer + Edea : First doing the exact same strat, except this time I use this to pull off a Cerberus summon to get Triple (Cerberus as only 600HP so I needed a way to prevent Seifer to kill him), since Seifer is almost completly harmless with a character with Cover and Fire Protection I put Protect, Shell and Haste on everyone (not Reflect cause if you keep the Reflect up Edea will eventually resolve to spam Ebon Wave which is honnestly annoying), once set I kill Seifer with Duel and make absolutly sure that 1 character can act. Seifer's Protect on Edea while dying is kind of useless cause we already has access to Dispel so yeah whatever, Edea open directly with Maelstrom have to cast a Triple Haste to get rid of the Slow, Edea's most annoying attacks are Ebon Wave, Maelstrom and Death but I make tactical mistake that screwed up my plan, first off I forgot to put back the Draw command for Selphie and Squall so I had to heal Zell to Draw Alexander. Funny enough the hardest part isn't beating her it's tanking her while mugging her ferning item took quite sometime, but it's worth it as she has a Royal Crow (Mgi + 30%) to mug, after that she is weak to physical so I just put Squall on low HP and the 2 other on support and spam his Limit Break while healing until she fall. So overall it's not to hard but it's a fun fight.

EDIT : Progressing through disc 3 now :

-Did grind a bit manage to get High-Mgi-RF with that I stock up -aga tier spell as well as Quake and Tornado to my character Tornado being my best spell to Junction to Strength.

-Ruby Dragon with Laguna and co : Just make sure to constantly be on Protect and Shell and have at least 2 character in Double should be enough to heal his damage, main damage way is Double Blizzaga deal around 7000 damage on him.

-Salt Lake : The Lefty hand are rough with Quake and Meteor compare to it the Righty hand are kinda pathetic, but overall it's a short area so not really much to say about it. I must say I'm not sure if there is a point playing Edea here, she has a very good magic and spirit stat, but playing her mean no EXP for one of the main characters so not sure I'm gonna use her outside of the part she is forced in.

-Abadon : Man I'm still have nightmare of this guy on Reloaded (man easily one of the hardest storyline boss in Reloaded) and also of Requiem (the fact that he could use Rapture was one of the most bullshit thing of Requiem), fortunatly is neither hard and doesn't pull off cheap stuff like that overall an easy yet fun boss so basically he has to stance when he is seat down he mostly use physical, he Claw attack doesn't hurt to much with protect, his tongue attack is even less powerfull but has a chance of instant-kill the target, on this stance he low defenses especially magic defense Quistis could around 5800 with Firaga, 6500 with Curaga and almost 9000 with Holy so magic is definitly the way to go, Irvine can deal good damage thanks to his Fire Shot (around 780 per Ammo 1560 if it Crit I think the max shot I got was 8 and the lowest 4 so that's around 3120 to 6240 (no counting crit), so basically for this stance I put Protect on Squall and Quistis, Squall is mainly my tank, set Double on Quistis and the she is my main Magic Damage dealer, Irvine is in low HP and spam his limit break.
Once he stand up he switch to a more magic base offense, he also get a HUGE boost in Defense as well as Auto-Shell so Quistis can still get good damage with Curaga (around 6000 with Double) since Healing spell ignore Spirit, Irvine is an even est source of Damage her thanks to AP Shot (deal around 750 per shot (1500 a crit) so that's 2250 to 4500), as for Defense well to put it simply Reflect make almost all of his spells irrelevant as they bounce back to him the only exception is Quake but I can simply immune my self to Earth thanks to 100 Quake to the Elemental defense, so the stand up stance is effectivly harmless against me ^^.
« Last Edit: 2019-10-13 18:55:00 by Nesouk »

Nsandro

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #369 on: 2019-10-13 21:02:56 »
Just killing Odin in 2 turns ( i spam lb of team), the fight before was more hard ?
Lvl 22/31/16 with 100 quake/tornado in str

Nesouk

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #370 on: 2019-10-13 21:44:08 »
Well I didn't have Quake or Tornado of course with spell like that to junction you should be able to kill him very fast, how did you get them ?

HeavensFury

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #371 on: 2019-10-14 01:16:02 »
Hey there! Will this ever be added to the remaster? Bc my god, this is too good of a mod to miss out on! lol, i've mostly just been focusing on the remaster version, because personally i feel like it'll be the more favored version of the future. :)
Keep up the great work though! I'll be keeping track of the updates as time goes on, bc it's looking very promising! :D
One of the best mods around, for sure!

Nesouk

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #372 on: 2019-10-14 13:48:37 »
Probably an oversight balance wise, so the Propagators are a complete joke, as they can be berserked just have either Squall or Linoa with Initiative and cast Berserk at the beginning and it's GG, as a consequence the Purple Propagators can drop Aura Stone which means it's extremely to just farm the Purple Propagators over and over to get as much Aura Stones as you want.

Callisto

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #373 on: 2019-10-14 14:57:08 »
@Nsandro:

I assume you got Odin on disc 3? If so, then I think being able to rush him down with an appropriate setup is alright. He is supposed to be a challenge when attempting Centra Ruins right away after getting control over Balamb Garden, when there are no Speed Junctions or high-tier spells available yet. It's unfortunately very difficult to keep an enemy challenging for the entire game, no matter your setup (at least if you want to keep him beatable on disc 2). But I'll see what I can do to make him be at a higher level for discs 3 and 4, without enabling level scaling. Thank you very much for the donation by the way. Much appreciated.


@Nesouk:

Tornado and Quake are available on disc 2, but getting them takes time. For Tornado, you can steal Windmills from the Abyss Worms in Kashkabald Desert on Centra, but they don't appear very often. One Windmill refines into 20 Tornados using T-Mag RF, as usual. For Quake, you would need to get the Tonberry GF first, and then use LV Up on an T-Rexaur on Balamb or in Balamb Garden Training Center so you can draw it from him.

The Aura Stones from the Propagators are actually not an oversight, and rather meant as an opportunity to get a few for those who are patient. They should drop only rarely, with a chance of about 5%. How many did you get? If it's too many, I'll change the drops for sure.

Thanks a lot for the progress report otherwise. Cerberus can use Break when under Triple and will only target characters without Break status when using it and yes, his tail attack still hurts. So he should be dispelled as soon as possible, but maybe you noticed he counters Dispel with a standard physical attack since the latest version. This has been implemented so he can no longer be staggered easily after using Triple on himself. As for Duel, it looks like it's still performing very well for you, as you rushed Seifer down so easily using it, so I guess something needs to be done about it sooner or later. Also Righty's physical attacks should be a little stronger indeed. Well observed. 

Just to say it in advance, there is an issue with Jumbo Cactuar not attacking. It'll be fixed by tomorrow.


@HeavensFury:

Thank you. Yes, it will be added to the Remaster version, unless I end up in a dead end in regards to file editing, as file structure is a little different compared to the 2013 version. Can't say when though. Probably takes a few more months.
« Last Edit: 2019-10-14 15:10:43 by Callisto »

Nesouk

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Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
« Reply #374 on: 2019-10-14 16:56:28 »
For Tornado and Quake well I did encounter Abyss Worm but when I mugged him he gave me a Mystery Fluid so I thought Windmill were removes or high Level only XD, but I wasn't seeking for Tornado and Quake, disc 2 was easy enough without these so I think it would have just been overkill ^^

For Zell's Duel I kinda want to wait and see how it perform on boss with higher VIT later especially now that I unlocked all his finisher would like to see if using them is worth it, also for Seifer that's honnestly was just lucky I got 7.33 seconds 2 time in the row of course that ended up being brutal for him. Also I'm not always to perform at his best, didn't mention it but I don't know if it's just personnal issue but sometime I got some weird lag input on Zell's Limit Break which of course mess up my input and timing this happen often and it's annoying. And also now that I got meant to use Triple, Angel Wing and more of Quistis's blue I would like to see how Duel performs compare to these would need a good test subject for that.

By the way I kinda have mix feeling about Linoa's Angel Wing, from what I test she can use Ultima, Flare, Meteor, Holy, Bio, Pain, Firaga, Blizzaga, Thundaga and Demi and her selection don't depend of what is in her inventory, I guess you did that for avoid the infamous Angel Wing Meteor tactics, but I kind of feel the Limit Break isn't as practical since you have no more control on it basically it's impossible to set her for exploit elemental weakness or avoid elemental resistance, also Demi is waste of turn if she uses it on something immune to it.

As for Aura Stones from Propagator I actually just got lucky and get 2 Aura Stones in the row on my 2 first fights against the Purple one since then I didn't get any so that was just pure luck on my side, but I'm gonna farm them anyway theyr are so easy to kill might as well finish teaching my GF's ability as much as I can with them ^^.

EDIT : Well since Jumbo Cactuar currently can't act I guess I can use him for Damage testing, he is good cause he has quite an high Vit which is what I was seeking for Zell's Duel (Jumbo Cactuar is perfect as he has so much Vit that even Critical Dolphin Blow doesn't do as much Damage as a normal Meteor Strike XD) and he has an elemental weakness so I tested various thing with the following stats :

-Squall : 162 Str, 100 Water to Ele Atk
-Zell : 167 Str
-Rinoa : 168 Mgi
-Quistis : 150 Mgi
-Irvine : 137 Str and 89 Luck

And so the results :

-Zell's Duel with 9.33 seconds : 38353 (22 hits)
-Zell's Duel with 5.66 seconds : 20999 (14 hits)
-Zell's Duel with 7.66 seconds : 29596 (16 hits)
-Zell's Duel with 3.66 seconds : 15791 (9 hits)

-Rinoa's Triple Water with 168 Mgi : 17700-19800

-Quistis's Aqua Breath : 14000-19000
-Quistis's Homing Laser : 7600-18000

-Irvine's AP Shot : around 1600 per shot 3200 with Crit so 3200 up to 9600 Crit excluded (theorically could reach around 19200)
-Irvine's Quick Shot : average of 260 (520 with Crit) per shot manage to shot 31 Ammos at best (maybe could shot more ammo) so 8060
-Irvine's Canister Shot : around 1200 per shot (2400 with Crit) so up to 6800 crit excluded (PS : Seems to have a far higher Crit Rate than AP Shot)
-Irvine's Pulse Ammo : Around 1500 per shot so 9000 damage at best (double with Crit)

-Squall with Darkside : 7000-8000
-Squall's Renzokuken : Around 1200 per successfull hit meaning 8400 on Jumbo Cactuar (fix sequence of 7 hits), Fated Circle does around 3700

OK so for observation out of this :

Zell's Duel is the big one, the damage vary depending of the number of Critical and especially which moves crit, as of now I think the biggest factor here is Meteor strike that move alone can up to 5000 if it Crit that almost the double of a Dolphin Blow's crit, the 9.33's 22 hits chain included 5 Meteor Strike 3 of them were crit these 5 almost deal half of the total damage so I can imagine if we were to find a loop that include more Meteor Strike (the loop I'm using currently include only 2 Meteor Strikes) by the way the loop I'm using currently is the following

1-Meteor Strike (Start with Booya here for 7.66s and 9.33s timer)
2-Dolphin Blow
3-Mach Kick
4-Dolphin Blow (Start with Punch Rush here for 3.66s and 5.66s timer)
5-Mach Kick
6-Dolphin Blow
7-Heel Drop
8-Meteor Strike
9-Dolphin Blow

(EDIT : While I was writing this I manage to found a better loop but didn't get numbers for it ^^")

EDIT 2 : Get the number for the new one :

3.66 second : 19468 (10 hits)
5.66 second : 27707 (15 hits)
7.66 second : 29792 (17 hits)
9.33 second : 43637 (23 hits)

New loop is as follow :

If timer is 3.66 of 5.66 (start with Punch Rush) then :
1-Dolphin Blow
2-Mach Kick
3-Dolphin Blow
4-Heel Drop
5-Meteor Strike
6-Dolphin Blow
7-Heel Drop
9-Meteor Strike
Back to number 6 (Dolphin Blow) just chain Dolphin Blow, Heel Drop and Meteor Strike as much as you can from there.

If timer is 7.66 or 9.33 (start with Booya) then :
1-Meteor Strike
2-Dolphin Blow
3-Mach Kick
4-Dolphin Blow
5-Mach Kick
6-Dolphin Blow
7-Heel Drop
8-Meteor Strike
9-Dolphin Blow
10-Heel Drop
11-Meteor Strike
Back to number 9 (Dolphin Blow) keep chaining Dolphin Blow, Heel Drop and Meteor Strike as much as you can from there.


As for the finisher, they honnestly feel kinda useless like my Final Heaven dealt 3320 (no crit) the one time I tried it they don't seem worth it, my suggestions would be :

-Nerf Dolphin Blow a little (currently can reach 2600 damage with Crit on Jumbo Cactuar, if you can drop it to 1800-2000 on average with Crit on Jumbo Cactuar with the Stat I give that would be good)
-Make Meteor Strike respecting ennemy's Vitality but slighty stronger than Dolphin Blow (the power of actual Dolphin Blow would do I think)
-Make the Finishers ignore Vitality (and adjust their Power for it) or increase their power by a lot, maybe not Burning Rave as it's available right away and for now Burning Rave is good for an early game move, but the 3 others aren't available until quite later and as of now once they became available there's no reason to use them over doing a chain with as much Dolphin Blows and Meteor Strikes as possible.

Outside of Duel the balance seems fine overall for now just the following  notes :

-If Jumbo Cactuar is one of the ennemies with highest Vit possible then I guess Irvine's Limit Break is fine, but if not then I'm bugged by the fact that AP Ammo are his best Ammos, I think AP Ammo should be the best option only against the bosses that has the highest Vit possible, on bosses with average Vit I think it would be fair to make at least Pulse Ammo and Demolition Ammo deal more damage than AP Ammo.

-Squall's Renzokuken seems weak compare to Irvine and Zell's Limit Break, I'm fine with Darkside being a better option if the ennemy has an elemental weakness, but I dunno currently Squall's Limit Break seems very weak for a Limit Break, maybe it will get better with Lion Heart I don't know.
« Last Edit: 2019-10-15 17:01:29 by Nesouk »