Author Topic: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)  (Read 9594 times)

irlite

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #25 on: 2019-04-25 08:18:06 »
Hello. I enjoyed playing through the beta of your mod over the past week and thoughts I'd share my thoughts. Please don't interpret any of this negatively as it's all meant in good faith. I had a lot of fun and appreciate the many changes you've made to the game to make things more interesting. Anything I say below is just a suggestion and if not congruent with your vision of what you want the mod to be I understand. =)

Context for my comments:
My playstyle favours minimal drawing and zero card modding because the former is tedious and the latter game breaking. I do not grind when I play FF games as I find grinding boring. I loved the concept of 1->100 junctions so much I bought FF8 on steam so I could try your mod out. I haven't played vanilla FF8 in years, although I have done a few run throughs over the past 16 years since I first played it. I like the world of FF8 and despite how broken the Junction system is in its implementation I find myself coming back now and again! I was looking forward to playing your mod a lot, particularly to see if it would be more challenging. Having said that, I know this isn't a HARD MOD (and thank the gods for that). Removing Magic, Draw, GF, Item command abilities from the additionals GFs I liked. Whether it's because you have plans for their development or want players to actually utilise the abilities to teach GF abilities I don't know - but I like it! Really liking the distribution of abilities you've given the GFs.

PROS
Having elemental/status attack/defence already available at the beginning of the game is a change I really like. Makes it very exciting when you stumble across status magic. Speaking of, I enjoyed having a limited supply of Haste and Double available for use at opportune moments. Kind of made me wonder how balance the game may have been in the initial design were Draw Points and Item Refines the only manner of acquiring magic (I have tried a run through in vanilla FF8 like this, only to find 1 Tent -> 20 Curaga to also make it trival. Really, what were the designers thinking?) Having Mug available early on I really like, because I do prefer refining magic from Items, particularly as magic seems more useful in this mod than in vanilla FF8 for ACTUAL USE.

DIFFICULTY FEEDBACK
Ifrit was a nice beginning challenge, the other bosses fizzled in comparison to the bar he set though. Overall, it seemed very easy still with the occasional enemy presenting a genuine threat (Esthar Cyborgs and Armadillos). I wonder if the status bonuses from magic are too generous and should be reduced a little? I don't think so because the length of the battles is perfect. Upping the offense of the enemies is the best way to achieve a better balance I reckon. I'd probably suggest making the random enemies deal closer to 20-25% Max HP worth of damage. It seems in general they deal about 1/10th of max HP per attack which is a little conservative. Getting Esuna early on is a monumental benefit. Many random enemies still seemed a bit OHKOs (those Zu-like monsters on the way to the Tomb of the Unknown King). Limits do differentiate characters a bit, but maybe they came a tad too frequently?

The other main source of ease is that GFs can be summoned very rapidly and they are extremely powerful. I believe Siren hit the Ranaldos in the training centre for 2500ish. Scale back their strength, make them take longer to cast, and they become a bit more balanced. They'd still serve as shields while you're summoning but the risk they may die before the summon is complete may reduce their overpoweredness during boss battles. It did seem like summoning them drew the ire of some enemies which then tried to kill them off. I liked that. I know your plans for compatibility and think that could be an excellent way of approaching the mechanic. I'd probably suggest starting compatibilities off much lower though (400 or so?).

Although I've claimed ease I did feel there was a sudden difficulty spike at Forest Laguna Dream Seq. Numerous soldiers pulling the Gravity Well + Shotgun tactic is brutal. My team mates died and I think I only got through because I was lucky that on the third battle they didn't use that combination. I thought Brothers were good. I died and came prepared with haste, protect and float on a second attempt. Diablos is located after Brothers in the GF screen yet is easily obtainable after acquiring the magical lamp. If there's a way to make it so he's only really tacklable once the -aras begin appearing that'd be good. Obviously the designers intended him to be more difficult than Brothers but it's your mod so do what you want.

Seifer/Edea were very well improved. Edea could probably have a bit more bite to her (love the use of Break and how it causes damage). I forgot to bring the FEW dispels I had to the battle... Eventually their shell and protect wore off because I was floundering around failing to kill them. Even with 4000 HP, protect and haste, I was hesitant to keep my party around 1000 due to Demon Slice. I wonder what this battle would be like without Curaga Junctioned to HP? A good challenge I suspect. I'll give it a go later.
If you're wondering how I got Curaga, because SURELY THIS ISN'T INTENTIONAL AT THE END OF DISC 1, see quirk #9.

QUIRKS
1. Junction auto is doing something odd. Selecting str prioritises cure over aero, esuna, and fira for the str stat. 
2. Brothers came with mid mag Refine already learnt. Mid mag ref 2->1 is quite overpowered. 5->1? One of the advantages and disadvantages of altering the difficulty in this mod is that 1->100 means only 7 of a given magic is required for junctioning across all characters for the FULL bonus (really 3, as magic can be easily moved between characters). Given this, I'm intrigued how you will handle the most powerful spells and their availability.
3. Money still far too plentiful. I'm partially to blame here as I did level my SeeD rank up to level 9.
4. Luna tonic cures darkness. That doesn't match the written description or the name of the item.
5. Pain description says it deals silence, darkness, and poison.
6. SeeD test level 7 question 4 asks about how many fires you get from m-piece. Maybe getting rid of these tests is a better idea than refining them though?
7. No exp for brothers fights? Exp for other bosses is given so I assume this is an oversight? Exp following bosses was a change I REALLY liked. I'd even go a bit further and make it so bosses give 3000 exp to force multiple level ups, given enemies leveling up with you is the main source of difficulty in the absence of access to crazy magic Junctions.
8. No automatic Carbuncle after Iguion fight. Oversight?
9. Healing Mail and Regen Ring Refine to 1 cottage. 1 cottage then refines to 20 Curagas. I stumbled across this is Deling City sewers. Suddenly I was a party of level 19-24ers with 3000-4000 Max HP... Enabled me to reliably get limit breaks at 1000hp which is very high given the damage enemies were dealing. I suspect balancing Refine may be tricky at first because of the chains invovled. This is why you have playtesters (and thank you for the privilege). I assume I acquired the healing mail from mugging something in Tomv of Unknown King. Armadillo maybe?
10. For ST-Atk: Pain only 25% Darkness. Blind does 25% Darkness. Intentional?

Anyway, this was fun to play through and thanks for that. I look forward to seeing you develop this mod further and I may even finish a playthrough of FF7 in future using your NT mod, which will mark the first time I've progressed more than 10 hours into FF7...

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #26 on: 2019-04-27 17:31:13 »
I've maybe been a bit too cautious with enemy balancing for FF8; I try to aim for randoms taking only a few attacks to put down as larger groups can drag out if they have a bit too much durability. But one thing this game offers is level adjustment so I could try making the enemies themselves slightly tougher but having heavier level penalties when they appear with others.

One benefit of having support magic only boost secondary stats is that they can be made available in limited amounts through field draws or character starting stock to be used at the player's discretion without throwing the stats balance off. Offence spells by comparison I've found difficult to allocate because they can throw things off too much if made available earlier so that's a limitation of the 1 stock = 100 stock stat adjustment at the moment.

GFs I'm a bit lost with. The intended design was as a 'panic button' but that doesn't work here because unlike FF7 I can't limit the uses of a GF per battle. There is a reversal to how affinity works in that a GF loses affinity with each use, but it's limited in how much it can drop by so some sort of adjustment is going to be needed there in the assembly to make the affinity swings more pronounced.

I'll check into the gravity well thing and maybe replace it with something else.


Quirks
1) I reckon Auto is probably not checking the actual stat bonuses available on the spells, and instead going by a static list of spell IDs that would have been best in the default game.

2) Mid Mag-RF could be moved onto Carbuncle instead with an AP requirement so that it needs a little work put in to be used for the Disc 1 finale (but will unlock from AP if taken into the Disc 1 straight away). That way it'd be available when intended + offers option to get an extra stat edge if player is having trouble with that fight so they don't get stuck. I think the lower refinement cost was just so the player could quickly upgrade their elemental spells to the next step.

3) I haven't really tackled money yet but plan to do so.

4) An oversight I had with the items is that their in-battle effects are different to their field menu effects (this is the same for FF7) so I'll need to find where that is in the .EXE though I might have it written down somewhere.

5) I probably missed that string when rewriting it; intended effect is just to have a chance at inflicting Poison.
6) Wasn't aware that there were questions like that, I'll review them.
7) I must have forgot to set the EXP flag for their formation, sorry about that.
8 ) Yeah, I forgot to add that to the field script

9) My refines are full of holes at the moment, so having people find and report these is always helpful. I managed to avoid the shame of enabling a Disc 1 Lionheart at least, but I think some players were able to produce Punishment and other high level weapons so still got work to do on this front.

10) I intend Pain to only handle Poison status so I'll sort that out

Thanks for the feedback, bud; modding work has slowed down a bit because of a new job I unexpectedly came into but I'm chipping away at it. I have a last update for FF7 NT in the works so hopefully that'll assist in getting you past the 10hr mark; there's so much more boredom and misery to be enjoyed in FF7 that you're missing out on :p

Rikku

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #27 on: 2019-05-02 16:14:17 »
WoW, this looks so cool, but how does it work??

Every magic boost the same amount as your level ?


If you want them based on level, the following patches should do the trick:

Code: [Select]
#HP
963CB = 8A 5C 24 14 90 90 90

#Primary Stats
966E5 = 8A 54 24 1C 90 90 90

#Speed & Luck
96788 = 8A 54 24 1C 90 90 90

#Hit
9688E = 8B 4C 24 04 31 C0 8A 81 B8 01 00 00

#EVA
9691C = 8B 4C 24 04 31 C0 8A 81 B8 01 00 00

#Elemental Attack
969CC = 8B 4C 24 04 31 C0 8A 81 B8 01 00 00

#Elemental Defence
96AA9 = 8B 44 24 04 31 C9 8A 88 B8 01 00 00

#Status Attack
96BBC = 8B 4C 24 04 31 C0 8A 81 B8 01 00 00

#Status Defence
96C98 = 8B 44 24 04 31 C9 8A 88 B8 01 00 00

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #28 on: 2019-05-02 16:55:32 »
WoW, this looks so cool, but how does it work??

Every magic boost the same amount as your level ?

I think it's using Level instead of stock; so to get the full stat boost from a junctioned spell the character needs to be lv.100.

JWP

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #29 on: 2019-05-02 18:19:45 »
I think it's using Level instead of stock; so to get the full stat boost from a junctioned spell the character needs to be lv.100.
Correct, normally the boost is (magic_amount * stat_boost)/100 but the patches just cause it to use level instead of the magic amount.

Kefka

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #30 on: 2019-05-06 06:46:33 »
Hey Sega Chief, it's great to finally see some more FF8 mods emerging, but too bad that they don't work with the German version. However, there's one change in your mod that seems brilliant to me that Id like to also implement in my own mod, and that is this:

Quote
Limits have had the RNG removed from their check, meaning that milling turns will no longer have an effect. If a Limit does not proc when the character's ATB gauge fills, it means they cannot get a Limit until the battle conditions change (HP is lost, status is inflicted). This works both ways, and means that if a Limit does proc it will be available even if you swap control to another character and back again.

This has probably got to be one of if not the most important feature to prevent endless Limit spamming, so I'd like to ask you how exactly you did that? I'm guessing it involves hex-editing the exe. I'm not really a programmer myself, so if you don't mind could you post the necessary changes to implement this? Thanks in advance.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #31 on: 2019-05-06 13:58:27 »
Hey Sega Chief, it's great to finally see some more FF8 mods emerging, but too bad that they don't work with the German version. However, there's one change in your mod that seems brilliant to me that Id like to also implement in my own mod, and that is this:

This has probably got to be one of if not the most important feature to prevent endless Limit spamming, so I'd like to ask you how exactly you did that? I'm guessing it involves hex-editing the exe. I'm not really a programmer myself, so if you don't mind could you post the necessary changes to implement this? Thanks in advance.

I think I removed the RNG modifier from the check. In the hext document for FF8 NT it looks like this (when game is running, an offset of 400000 is added to addresses for english version; the # symbol is used for commenting lines in a hext file):
Code: [Select]
+400000
#Crisis Level Check
#941F0 - Start

#Formula:
#HPMod=2500*CurrentHP/MaxHP
#DeathBonus=DeadCharacters*200+1600
#StatusBonus=StatusSum+10
#RandomMod=[0..255]+160 - 942E7
#LimitLevel=(StatusBonus+DeathBonus-HPMod)/RandomMod

#Random MOD 0-255 + 160 [Set to 0 for no variance]
942E7 = 83 E1 00 90 90 90
#Default: +160, Current = +255
942F2 = 81 C1 FF 00 00 00

#Change this to EB 09 (or JMP 494329) to set 'fixed' crisis level proc
#or deactivate limits altogether with 0
#9431E

#94329 - Where crisis level 4 checked for, can be changed to any level or 0

So what happens in there is, the game rolls a 0-255 and then adds 160 to it. This value is then used in the Limit Level check along with the other factors to decide what Crisis Level the character is at; if it's less than 1, then no Limit is available. If it's 1-4, then a Limit is available.

The reason it's possible to mash triangle/mill turns to get a Limit to proc is because of that RNG check returning a different number each time. But what that hex-code does is it nops the RNG part (stands for 'no operation'; we can't just delete values from the assembly because all the other lookup addresses would then be off slightly) and the +160 was changed to +255. So now the RNG always returns a value of 255 instead of a value anywhere between 160-415.

So if a Limit doesn't proc, it will never proc until the conditions of the battle change. Same thing for if a Limit does proc; it will always proc when that player's turn comes up until the battle conditions change. This means you don't lose a Limit when swapping to another character, but it also means you can repeatedly use them whenever that character's turn comes up.

The next step of this would be deciding if a further restriction on Limits should be added; like a per-battle 'Stock' or similar. An idea I had was to set it up so that 4 Limits could be used per battle, with the first being a strong Crisis Level 4 and it going down a level every time a Limit is used (until they stop being available in that battle all together).

But another thing I was looking at was trying to make Limits behave more like a character-specific skillset that can be used more freely as some have fairly versatile sets like Quistis and Irvine. Balancing it would be a bit tricky though.

Kefka

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #32 on: 2019-05-06 15:24:19 »
Thanks for the quick reply, and for sharing your documentation.

The Limit breaks are unfortunately one of the most difficult aspects of the battle system to rebalance. I actually like the idea of limited uses per battle as well, it would also restrict Aura over-abusing. I remember that FFVI had a similar mechanic with its desperation attacks, but that one was a bit too restrictive (only once per battle, only after a certain amount of time has passed, and only with less than 1/16th maxHP). Kinda like two extremes without a real middle path.

Another possibility might be tweaking the bonus numbers for dead party members, lost HP and negative statuses, or even the one for Aura. Do you by chance also know where to find those? Or could you give me a byte sequence to search for, since the offsets in the german exe are somewhat different from the english exe, as I've just realized.

Aldebaran

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #33 on: 2019-05-08 15:24:19 »
Quote
The next step of this would be deciding if a further restriction on Limits should be added;

The idea you get Limit Breaks according to the "danger level" the character is in is really cool, in concept. It's hit and miss in game, even without abuse, which is also easy.
An idea: it could depend on a character being hit by a strong enemy attack that leaves them near death and only counting dead party members and status effects when caused in a small amount of turns by the enemy. So lots of damage/status/S.Effects done in a short time by enemy only.

As for Aura and Meltdown they should be removed entirely, or their effect changed completely. Removing the Crisis Level from the LBs at any point defeats the purpose of the mechanic, imo. So is zeroing enemy VIT. Since Meltdown is a cool late game spell, perhaps it should do something like lower stats (or just one stat) progressively during the battle? Something like a stat poison effect that could be maintained by constant application. Would fit the name and make results fit the effort and expense instead of just erasing enemy defenses. As for Aura, it could level up the crisis level when it occurs, instead of increasing the chances of one happening.

Quote
But another thing I was looking at was trying to make Limits behave more like a character-specific skillset that can be used more freely as some have fairly versatile sets like Quistis and Irvine.

I think you can improve the versatility of Quistis and Irvine by simply making their crisis level require a less critical situation, something already done for Seifer and Edea in the party iirc, while decreasing this "bonus" when they gain their stronger LBs, or simply decreasing the bonus with their increasing in levels. In this way low level quistis would be able to use the LBs almost every battle, while Irvine would be mostly limited by ammo.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #34 on: 2019-05-09 08:09:40 »
Thanks for the quick reply, and for sharing your documentation.

The Limit breaks are unfortunately one of the most difficult aspects of the battle system to rebalance. I actually like the idea of limited uses per battle as well, it would also restrict Aura over-abusing. I remember that FFVI had a similar mechanic with its desperation attacks, but that one was a bit too restrictive (only once per battle, only after a certain amount of time has passed, and only with less than 1/16th maxHP). Kinda like two extremes without a real middle path.

Another possibility might be tweaking the bonus numbers for dead party members, lost HP and negative statuses, or even the one for Aura. Do you by chance also know where to find those? Or could you give me a byte sequence to search for, since the offsets in the german exe are somewhat different from the english exe, as I've just realized.

There is a tool that can change those modifiers from statuses but I'm unsure if it works for other language versions: http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=17090.0
To get the game's kernel, use the Deling tool to extract it from Main.fs: http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=13050.0
(Also use Deling to import the modified kernel after changes).

If it doesn't work, then let me know and I'll send a byte string of all the default modifiers to search.


The idea you get Limit Breaks according to the "danger level" the character is in is really cool, in concept. It's hit and miss in game, even without abuse, which is also easy.
An idea: it could depend on a character being hit by a strong enemy attack that leaves them near death and only counting dead party members and status effects when caused in a small amount of turns by the enemy. So lots of damage/status/S.Effects done in a short time by enemy only.

As for Aura and Meltdown they should be removed entirely, or their effect changed completely. Removing the Crisis Level from the LBs at any point defeats the purpose of the mechanic, imo. So is zeroing enemy VIT. Since Meltdown is a cool late game spell, perhaps it should do something like lower stats (or just one stat) progressively during the battle? Something like a stat poison effect that could be maintained by constant application. Would fit the name and make results fit the effort and expense instead of just erasing enemy defenses. As for Aura, it could level up the crisis level when it occurs, instead of increasing the chances of one happening.

I think you can improve the versatility of Quistis and Irvine by simply making their crisis level require a less critical situation, something already done for Seifer and Edea in the party iirc, while decreasing this "bonus" when they gain their stronger LBs, or simply decreasing the bonus with their increasing in levels. In this way low level quistis would be able to use the LBs almost every battle, while Irvine would be mostly limited by ammo.

The HP modifier currently is lower for all characters and their Limits are proccing roughly just past halfway of their MaxHP. Originally it was only going to be a few characters with it set up like this but I was trying it out with all characters in the last build. Aura I was thinking of moving onto an item stone and then converting the spell for use as something else. Meltdown I think is currently a defence-ignoring fire spell but still not 100% sure what the plan with it is going to be; Vit0 itself is something I'm trying to work in as a drawback to certain effects/items rather than a status that gets inflicted onto an enemy/player by attacks.

Aldebaran

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #35 on: 2019-05-09 20:17:57 »
I have to say, all the changes until now sound really spot-on and well thought out. Really hope you keep going.

Kefka

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #36 on: 2019-05-09 21:37:47 »
You're right, Doomtrain can indeed do that! For some reason I thought the code for limits would be in the exe, it never ocurred to me that it could be in the kernel. Yes, Doomtrain works with the german version, and I've been using it for a while already actually, but somehow it seems I never bothered with the last 'Miscellaneous' tab. Wow, I feel stupid now, lol. Anyway thanks, I'll tweak the various limit values a little bit and see how I like the results.

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #37 on: 2019-06-08 20:56:27 »
I always thought that if the game was ever remade it would be cool if they let you switch between your cloths and SeeD uniforms if it's possible I wouldn't mind seeing it here.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #38 on: 2019-06-08 23:00:15 »
I always thought that if the game was ever remade it would be cool if they let you switch between your cloths and SeeD uniforms if it's possible I wouldn't mind seeing it here.

I think that's possible.

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #39 on: 2019-06-13 19:49:23 »
Hi everyone !!

I am looking forward to try the full version of this mod but, does anyone know when will be available ?

I enjoyed A LOT the ff7 new threat mod and i´m really really interested in this version.

Thanks

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #40 on: 2019-06-13 20:49:58 »
Hi everyone !!

I am looking forward to try the full version of this mod but, does anyone know when will be available ?

I enjoyed A LOT the ff7 new threat mod and i´m really really interested in this version.

Thanks

It'll still be a little while I'm afraid.

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #41 on: 2019-06-15 16:33:42 »
Hey Sega Chief,

first of all, thanks for your work so far and the NT mod for FF7. I had a blast with all the tweaks/fixes and new bosses.

irlite already brought up most points that I have noticed during my run so far and I agree with pretty much all of them, so I just wanted to add a few things:

- Draw point choice is missing for Deling City sewer and the tomb
- Diablos is affected by Demi the first two times of usage. Not sure if that is intentional or just a bug on my end. Also he is still easily beaten when blinding him. Maybe you can make him cast silence or (that spell which disables limits)
- The Raldos (Granaldo fight) take almost no damage until Granaldo is dead. However, I hit them for around 100 once, but I'm not sure if that was a bug or has to do with the mechanic. First I though it had to do with the position of Granaldo (either making them have high or low defence), but that doesn't seem the case.
- Magic is finally usable with this mod, which opens up to new strategies and playstyles, but I think they are still too weak (or physical damage is too high). Comparing character damage with similar stats in Str and Mag, even when exploiting their elemental weakness, there is almost no difference in damage. In my opinion magic users should be more of a glass cannon, especially because you need resources (spell number/MP) for them.
- Some of the draw points feel unrewarding because you already encountered enemies with both options before getting to it. Maybe you can make spells of draw points exclusive to them (until you get the flying garden or so) and add spells that are very useful but not essential and can't be drawn from any other mob (like Life, Esuna, Dispel, Regen, Double, etc)
- Encounter rate seems higher than normal, especially in the training center I was getting into almost 10 fights until I got to the "hidden area"

That's it for now. I will probably do another playthrough and pay more attention to detail.

Hopefully the code of FF8 allows you to make a mod similar to FF7 NT. Though I don't wanna know how many hours went into that ;D


Let us/me know if you need any specific, time consuming testing. Cheers

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #42 on: 2019-06-16 12:44:22 »
Hey Sega Chief,

first of all, thanks for your work so far and the NT mod for FF7. I had a blast with all the tweaks/fixes and new bosses.

irlite already brought up most points that I have noticed during my run so far and I agree with pretty much all of them, so I just wanted to add a few things:

- Draw point choice is missing for Deling City sewer and the tomb
- Diablos is affected by Demi the first two times of usage. Not sure if that is intentional or just a bug on my end. Also he is still easily beaten when blinding him. Maybe you can make him cast silence or (that spell which disables limits)
- The Raldos (Granaldo fight) take almost no damage until Granaldo is dead. However, I hit them for around 100 once, but I'm not sure if that was a bug or has to do with the mechanic. First I though it had to do with the position of Granaldo (either making them have high or low defence), but that doesn't seem the case.
- Magic is finally usable with this mod, which opens up to new strategies and playstyles, but I think they are still too weak (or physical damage is too high). Comparing character damage with similar stats in Str and Mag, even when exploiting their elemental weakness, there is almost no difference in damage. In my opinion magic users should be more of a glass cannon, especially because you need resources (spell number/MP) for them.
- Some of the draw points feel unrewarding because you already encountered enemies with both options before getting to it. Maybe you can make spells of draw points exclusive to them (until you get the flying garden or so) and add spells that are very useful but not essential and can't be drawn from any other mob (like Life, Esuna, Dispel, Regen, Double, etc)
- Encounter rate seems higher than normal, especially in the training center I was getting into almost 10 fights until I got to the "hidden area"

That's it for now. I will probably do another playthrough and pay more attention to detail.

Hopefully the code of FF8 allows you to make a mod similar to FF7 NT. Though I don't wanna know how many hours went into that ;D


Let us/me know if you need any specific, time consuming testing. Cheers

Cheers for the feedback, bud.

My intention was to have the draw point give new magic earlier than they're available from enemies (not all do this, some just offer a top-up on some essentials or what might be useful for upcoming fights). I'll review them against finalised enemy Draw lists.

Encounter rate was unchanged, but will look into it. I think enc-none is going to be an early GF ability just so it can be a random battle toggle like FF7 NT has.

Konichu

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #43 on: 2019-06-17 23:51:11 »
Hey, I just finished the mod and I noticed a few things :

- When you refine Cottage into Curaga, it says that it'll give you 20 but it actually give you 50
- You use the wrong item to cure blind (or my english is really bad at this point when I was looking for an item to cure it)

Is it normal to have to steal Carbuncle but not Undine ?

You should nerf a lot the cards, because before going to Deiling city, I managed to get all the really good cards and transform them in good magic like tornado and curaga and have all my char to have 3.5k hp, >100 str and just spammed Mad Rush (to get haste + protect + berserk) to get my way to all the bosses until the end of disc 1 so I think you should really nerf the cards or Mad Rush.

And we shouldn't be able to use magic that have under 10 uses in junction because otherwise we just have to put 1 magic on each character to make the early game a bit more hard

Spoiler: show
I wasn't ready to fight Omega Weapon when I pressed cancel

Pure_Mind_Games

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #44 on: 2019-06-18 10:31:16 »
You should nerf a lot the cards, because before going to Deiling city, I managed to get all the really good cards and transform them in good magic like tornado and curaga and have all my char to have 3.5k hp, >100 str and just spammed Mad Rush (to get haste + protect + berserk) to get my way to all the bosses until the end of disc 1 so I think you should really nerf the cards or Mad Rush.

Counter argument, when selecting New Game have a message that tells people to use self control if they don't want to 'break' the game.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #45 on: 2019-06-18 12:44:21 »
Hey, I just finished the mod and I noticed a few things :

- When you refine Cottage into Curaga, it says that it'll give you 20 but it actually give you 50
- You use the wrong item to cure blind (or my english is really bad at this point when I was looking for an item to cure it)

Is it normal to have to steal Carbuncle but not Undine ?

You should nerf a lot the cards, because before going to Deiling city, I managed to get all the really good cards and transform them in good magic like tornado and curaga and have all my char to have 3.5k hp, >100 str and just spammed Mad Rush (to get haste + protect + berserk) to get my way to all the bosses until the end of disc 1 so I think you should really nerf the cards or Mad Rush.

And we shouldn't be able to use magic that have under 10 uses in junction because otherwise we just have to put 1 magic on each character to make the early game a bit more hard

Spoiler: show
I wasn't ready to fight Omega Weapon when I pressed cancel


For the refines, Cottage isn't supposed to refine into curaga at all but I think I've missed it in my refine list; there's an area I'm not sure of in my hex list that doesn't quite fit with the structure. For the items, the plan was to have items cure two statuses instead of 1 so that one of the items could then be used for berserk/confusion but I think the status heal is hard-coded for the field screens which I didn't realise.

Carbuncle has a thing going on where the monsters are under Reflect until he is stolen from them via Draw. I was planning to add a check to add him to the player's GF list if he wasn't drawn but didn't get around to it at the time.

The cards were the biggest flaw when releasing the Disc 1 demo as the placement of cards by and large was unchanged on NPCs and the refine results were supposed to use a byte that I thought was a level-lock on the refine. It was too much to patch quickly at the time so it's been left for the full release.

Konichu

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #46 on: 2019-06-20 09:42:00 »
Counter argument, when selecting New Game have a message that tells people to use self control if they don't want to 'break' the game.

I controlled my self, I just managed to get all the player/summon cards (like zell,quistis, mog) and transformed it into item. I didn't take any time to farm otherwise
But like Sega Chief said, I broke it only because cottage shouldn't give Curaga  ::)

Schwahn

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #47 on: 2019-06-27 04:34:48 »
@SegaChief

I am a massive fan of NT for FF7, and I cannot begin to express just how glad I am that you are working on another mod for FF8 now.

You have already in this early build made some of the most significant changes I ever wanted to see with this game, such as stock no longer influencing the stat boost from junctions and just overall balancing the game in general.

FF8 felt horrible to me to play, because it isn't inherently designed in a way where you can just "Straight play" through the game. Already just with the base gameplay design changes, I can already tell this will become the definitive edition of the game for me and will likely breathe a life into the game that was NEVER there for me before.

Thank you, and keep up all the amazing work.

/Schwahn

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #48 on: 2019-06-30 00:30:25 »
@SegaChief

I am a massive fan of NT for FF7, and I cannot begin to express just how glad I am that you are working on another mod for FF8 now.

You have already in this early build made some of the most significant changes I ever wanted to see with this game, such as stock no longer influencing the stat boost from junctions and just overall balancing the game in general.

FF8 felt horrible to me to play, because it isn't inherently designed in a way where you can just "Straight play" through the game. Already just with the base gameplay design changes, I can already tell this will become the definitive edition of the game for me and will likely breathe a life into the game that was NEVER there for me before.

Thank you, and keep up all the amazing work.

/Schwahn

Thanks bud, hopefully it won't disappoint.

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Re: [FF8PC - Steam] New Threat Mod (v0.3)
« Reply #49 on: 2019-07-02 17:45:47 »
Hey there, just wondering if the % on squalls hit was reverted back to 255 or if I've managed to somehow mess up the install? Everything else is working as intended from the looks of it though.