Author Topic: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer  (Read 1214 times)

Manakaiser

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #25 on: 2019-06-11 14:41:08 »
Well, calling it absurd to have that view is way too harsh, and doesn't really make sense (bad choice of the word absurd). I agree that FF7's combat falls short on how it was realized in the game. Too easy, too many ways to exploit, too many overkill attacks, <insert more "flaws" here>, etc. The biggest problem is that you don't really need to explore the combat system to beat the game. Upgrade your equipment, heal often and pretty much everyone and their grandparents can beat the game. All of the above may not be bad in itself, but it really undermines everything the combat-system has to offer. Anyone who has worked on tools, mods, or even played mods, know how much more potential there is in the battle system. It just wasn't realized in the game.

Personally, I think the action style combat looks stupid. It's really, really hard to take it seriously considering it's supposed to look realistic. In turn-based, you know that the combat you see on-screen isn't actually what happens. It's an abstraction of what really happens. When it's action based like this, how you should interpret it is vague. Is this how it really happens? Do these character really survive several machinegun shots to their bodies?

The realistic approach could look dumb if it was turn-based too, don't get me wrong, but it would depend on how it was implemented. But we've now seen how they are doing it with the action approach and it looks stupid. Imo they shouldn't have done the realistic style, and they would have avoided this "problem" altogether.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REiyl4haWnY&t=11m

Sorry don't like to hang out specific people, but these comments really make me smh. It would be a waste not to make it action oriented? What about FPS fans? Or puzzle-game fans?

On the feminist Tifa thing... Doesn't she look more like a thing feminists would shriek about in the new desing? A mean, that mini-skirt + socks look like a school-girl fetish thing.

Thats a fair opinion overall and i can apreciate that some people just dont like it for subjective reasons (I really just have issues with attempts to reason the dislike with appeals to objective complexity being far superior in the original, which is simply not the case) even though I personally disagree, partly for the reasons you mentioned yourself (about the turnbased potentially looking equally silly with such a visual fidelity/artstyle, and that the potential of the system is not what matters but what was effectively realized through balancing and whatnot in regards to me calling it absurd to say it required any intellect. Fair point that absurd might be too strong but you understood what i meant so no worries here).

We fully agree on arguments like the fps part etc that you mentioned (that some people seem to make? havent looked much into opinions except this topic but that FPS part in particular must be a VERY fringe opinion no? :P) being idiotic, and seemingly on the tifa too.

Cheers

« Last Edit: 2019-06-11 14:53:48 by Manakaiser »

mr_nygren

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #26 on: 2019-06-11 15:16:49 »
It's also too far-fetched that Zack meets Aerith in the same way as Cloud did. But it happened that way.

There are many hints that the first CD will be play in Midgar. Nomura said that the story will change and that the compilation of FF7 won't fit anymore (it's silly that he thinks that it fits before), which indicates a massive rewrite of the story. They also said that they want to decide the game into episodes, where each episode will be a full game and has its own game play. This means they have to divide the game into separate pieces and have to find a way to tell each story without direct contact of the other stories.
Then there is a very practical reason. SE has to produce the remake with as low cost as possible, but they also want a breath-taking experience, so they can't come with a lifeless small city as in the original. What's clever to do is to keep the story in Midgar and working only on the huge city rather than working on a whole continent. Maybe that's why they hired Cyberconnect2 for the project in the first place, because they had experience with creating big lively cities. (Keep also in mind that SE struggled with creating FFXV open world.)
The last hint is that we have no footage of outside of Midgar. The iconic moment where Sephiroth goes walking through the burning Nibleheim is something I would expect to see, instead we see Sephiroth confronting Cloud in Midgar. Then there are additional bike scenes, which probably means that there is a lot more to be explored than in the original game.

Though, the only argument why I could be wrong is that we have mainly seen scenes from the very beginning of the game, but... well, call it a feeling that I right about that. If you look on some older threads where we discussed the refusing of SE to make a remake of FF7 I predicted that SE will make a remake of it in the middle or to the end of the PS4 lifetime, because they need this money. And I was right about that.

Get me right I hope I'm wrong and FF7-R will blow our minds away. But my concerns started when I saw, which people are responsible for it. Hideo Kojima would have been a welcome surprise to me and a cooperation with Monolith, even though it means that it would have been designed with the switch in mind. But at last I had a guarantee that they focus on a very good game play and story and not on shiny graphical blending mechanics to hide the next uninspired Final Fantasy meets Kingdom Hearts mix.

I think a good comparison is Lufia II to its DS remake. These are very different from each other, but both are great games. A downside of the remake for me was the very linear story, other than this it was pretty entertaining. But, while it is graphical very impressive for a DS game it still stands in the shadow of the original game.
This is what I expect for the FF7 remake, though this would be a disaster for SE because the remake needs to surpass the original.

Edit
Just found this
https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/06/11/final-fantasy-vii-remake-expands-on-the-story-of-midgar-e3-2019

Very well said, i am sad they didn't use the FMV-graphics for the characters like your models.

It can never surpass the original, only if it had stayed true to it in every sense of the word - and only updated graphics.

You see - the original with modern graphics are better than the original with old graphics - but a remake that changes a lot of things will probably fail.
« Last Edit: 2019-06-11 15:19:44 by mr_nygren »

mr_nygren

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #27 on: 2019-06-11 15:41:19 »


I don't agree. It's your opinion to think so, but hear me out on this. Based upon what you're saying, Advent Children would have also catered to feminists, but almost 15 years ago before the identity politics of today's Western society came into fruition?

Square Enix is a Japanese company first and foremost, and Final Fantasy is their Japanese franchise. I've lived in Japan for long enough now to know that society here functions much differently than the Western world. All the identity representation [nonsense] currently thrown into Western media and entertainment...it's not here. Most Japanese people are ignorant to its existence, and those who may get a whiff of it from the internet, don't care enough to ever talk about it. Another fact is that the majority of the player base is male, and the Japanese gaming industry heavily favors male loving aesthetics. They don't tone down characters because feminist activists [whom don't exist in Japan] demanded it do so. Trust me on this one...it's not a feminist thing.

I personally don't mind the new look they've given, but still enjoy the original the best. The changes themselves at least match pretty well. Barret with sunglasses though? That one will take awhile to grow on me.

This is my take as well. And we know it's a good system seeing how the Hardcore mod and New Threat have shown us what could have been developed instead.

Hello, i never liked the Advent Children look of any character. I thought that compared to FF7 1995 they all looked less cool -  or less sexy in Tifa's case. Also, they no longer had anime-aesthetics that i really liked in the original. To me the Kaldarasha models are a superb representation of how they should look - the FMV-videos.

However, i did accept that style because in the case of Advent Children it took place after FF7. As such they might have changed their style over the years. And not only that, but i get it that they'd want a movie to be more real-life like. Not really a fan that they've taken the remake in that route instead of the anime-route - but at least it's understandable to some degree. As an example, i love the new look of Cloud and the fact that he has gotten his cool pants back. I really disliked how they got too slim in all the modern games. To me Cloud has pants that stretch to the side - doesn't look cool otherwise. I still miss the more pointy hair of the original though.

About feminists, i just thought that because of their bad influende on other games, movies and TV-shows that they caused this change as well. But i also do know that Japan is different - so i am not at all certain as to why they gave Tifa stocking socks/leggins when they could just have kept her the way she is in the original. Wanting a remake doesn't mean "we want you to remake everything in the game" - it could just mean "we want modern graphics but the same game otherwise".

If comparing Advent Children to the Remake, the main difference is that the Remake claims to be Final Fantasy VII - but by changing the style of Tifa it's not looking like FF7. It looks like a "new FF7" and i wanted the old with better graphics. Now, i am not against more story, multiplayer or whatever - i like any "expanded content". But changing the looks of characters is so stupid - why change what isn't broken? The old style of Tifa is Tifa since 22 years ago. I don't like changes that change how characters look.

For example, in the 90's you had Vegeta from DBz as 16bit pixels in snes games, and today you have Vegeta in PS4 games with anime-style graphics - the character still looks the same! They didn't change his hairstyle or his clothes - only the graphics. Why couldn't FF7 Remake do the same?

Advent Children is a continuation, Crisis Core is a prologue, Kingdom Hearts is a mix of Disney/FF - but the Remake is Final Fantasy VII and should have re-used all the original designs unchanged.
« Last Edit: 2019-06-11 15:44:13 by mr_nygren »

mr_nygren

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #28 on: 2019-06-11 15:58:32 »
I fully agree with tifas model being kinda unnecessarily tamed down wtih the long stocking socks; other than that though damn this looks absolutely fantastic im really hyped now combat looks extremely fun and the whole thing is visually absolutely stunning.

Cant wait to get DLPBs explanation on why this combat is all complete crap and am interested in how precisely the original scorpion battle (or rest of combat) is so much more tactical, braincell demanding than this lol (while restressing that the numbers are too flashy) ^^

I did expect the new battle-system to be trash - like in Devil May Cry, a game i hated because of the mechanics.

I have to agree with you that i were pleasantly surprised by it. The only thing the game needs is a "Classic look"-DLC.

Manakaiser

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #29 on: 2019-06-11 16:27:49 »
One thing even i am genuinely worried about is that any kind of eventual dodging mechanic will be too powerful and/or badly implemented, although from the trailers we´ve seen so far fortunately dont suggest that
(I mean wtf @ ffXV it was not only idiotically implemented (keep button pressed opposed to timing it) but also pretty much an instawin button disregarding undodgable attacks which went the other direction that on some of the harder enemies like naglfar being capable of consistently oneshotting you, forcing you to basically spam revive to win unless you are maxed out)
« Last Edit: 2019-06-11 16:35:14 by Manakaiser »

mr_nygren

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #30 on: 2019-06-11 16:58:18 »
The whole "feminists ruined Tifa" thing is silly. They've ruined plenty but this isn't one of them.

Has everyone forgotten Final Fantasy 15's Cindy?

And Tifa looks awesome. They don't have to design the character to look like a hooker in order for her to look badass.

I haven't played a FF game since FFXIII and i felt it were underwhelming and i really disliked the linear story. I only really enjoyed 7, 8 and 9 - but 10 is still charming even though i never finished it.

FFXII kept me obsessed the first time i played it for many hours, but after i stoped playing i never got back in. So i thought it were impressive and great but i disliked it's battle-system as i died all the time in a catacomb or whatever. Had to use cheats to get past a part in it. I never had to cheat in the old games. - The problem was that the game had real-time battles. Every enemy could attack and you could never be safe - all your characters got attacked at once.

The new Remake has a pausing-ability and also keeps some of the traditional aspects. That will make it harder for the AI to kill everyone in the party before the player can react.

As for looking like a hooker, i think the Stockings are more  like my picture of one - however, after looking again at Tifa i think she is kind of hot still. Just not in the way i'd expected. But i didn't expect changes to her look, the more i look at her the more used i get to her - it's not bad, just not as good as in the past - i could probably enjoy the game with the new look.

Terid__K

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #31 on: 2019-06-11 17:09:07 »
They probably toned down Tifa a bit so people take her more seriously as a character (especially new players). It's got nothing to do with feminism or SJWs, Japan couldn't care less about these things. Expect loads of fanservice elsewhere in the game, if FFXV is any indication.


Kuraudo.

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« Last Edit: 2019-06-11 20:38:10 by Kuraudo. »

gjoerulv

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #33 on: 2019-06-11 21:31:24 »
Cheers

Nice timing, having a couple of beers right now. Cheers!

To be clear, I have no problem with action RPGs, but I am more passionate about turn-based games, be it Civilization, Heroes, FF, ++. Remaking FF7 into an ARPG is entirely up to SE.

FFXII kept me obsessed the first time i played it for many hours, but after i stoped playing i never got back in. So i thought it were impressive and great but i disliked it's battle-system as i died all the time in a catacomb or whatever. Had to use cheats to get past a part in it. I never had to cheat in the old games. - The problem was that the game had real-time battles. Every enemy could attack and you could never be safe - all your characters got attacked at once.

The new Remake has a pausing-ability and also keeps some of the traditional aspects. That will make it harder for the AI to kill everyone in the party before the player can react.

FFXII had a wait option. If on, you could basically press X (ps2) any time to input commands. Or was it when the atb bar was full? Well, in any case, FF12 was kind of a hybrid.
« Last Edit: 2019-06-11 21:42:19 by gjoerulv »

DLPB

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #34 on: 2019-06-11 21:37:00 »
They probably toned down Tifa a bit so people take her more seriously as a character (especially new players). It's got nothing to do with feminism or SJWs, Japan couldn't care less about these things. Expect loads of fanservice elsewhere in the game, if FFXV is any indication.

Seriously as a character?  We have a guy with a crazy hairdo holding an impossibly big sword and a dude who goes around with a gun arm. The new dialogue I've heard so far has also been ridiculous.  I can assure you that seriousness is not the reason she isn't showing any panties.

But I happen to think the original design was a bit silly anyway.  I didn't buy she was the type to walk around wearing those clothes everywhere.  But then this was originally an anime style game - where it could work.
« Last Edit: 2019-06-11 21:39:42 by DLPB »

Terid__K

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #35 on: 2019-06-11 22:42:50 »
Seriously as a character?  We have a guy with a crazy hairdo holding an impossibly big sword and a dude who goes around with a gun arm. The new dialogue I've heard so far has also been ridiculous.  I can assure you that seriousness is not the reason she isn't showing any panties.

Let's do an experiment. What's the first thing that comes to mind when you think of Aerith? Now, what's the first thing that comes to mind when you think of Tifa?

See the problem there? That's what they're trying to avoid this time.

DLPB

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #36 on: 2019-06-11 22:49:29 »
Your proof it's that is the same as my proof it isn't that - but you can't possibly use realism or seriousness as an argument.

Izban

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #37 on: 2019-06-12 10:23:52 »
I'm actually excited for it the remake, the battle system looks engaging with a great deal of care taken to appease the purists, it seems fairly balanced apart from the mental hp maxes, I hope materia is implemented in a meaningful way where you can sort of customise characters with it.

Art wise I think the characters look closer to the original art then alot of people are giving it credit for, considering the chibi-style characters were only done due to limitations on the original PlayStation, as for stockinggate if that's all people are whining about it's a good day for tifa fan boys.

Overall the game looks beautiful, I have some concerns but they arent major and I have quite a few less after the presser

Kuraudo.

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #38 on: 2019-06-12 17:01:20 »

Jason Schreier: "Just asked Yoshinori Kitase how many games are going to be in the Final Fantasy VII remake - he said he can't say yet "because we don't know ourselves."

Square Enix PR reply to journalists on the matter: "While the development team finishes the first game of the project, they are also planning the volume of content for the second. Due to the work already done on the first game, we anticipate that the development of the second game will be more efficient. However, for now we would like to focus on the development of the first game."
« Last Edit: 2019-06-13 18:01:12 by Kuraudo. »

KaidenJames

Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #39 on: 2019-06-12 21:12:37 »
Those 4K renders looks great. Barret without the glasses looks fantastic. I don't mind the glasses, but he looks better without them. SE not knowing how many games they're making was my biggest concern outside of combat. Combat looks great (to me, my opinion) but it would be nice to know how many games we're actually getting. We'll probably know more closer to March.

DLPB

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #40 on: 2019-06-12 21:13:31 »
Quote
Jason Schreier: "Just asked Yoshinori Kitase how many games are going to be in the Final Fantasy VII remake - he said he can't say yet "because we don't know ourselves."

Not good planning...  Sounds like a farce already.

Manakaiser

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #41 on: 2019-06-12 22:26:30 »
::)

Those renders are pretty crisp though, but for some reason i think aeriths face looks a bit weird/off.
« Last Edit: 2019-06-12 22:33:35 by Manakaiser »

obesebear

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #42 on: 2019-06-13 15:13:18 »
I didn't buy she was the type to walk around wearing those clothes everywhere.  But then this was originally an anime style game - where it could work.

You hit the nail on the head. I think her clothes now better match her personality

Kuraudo.

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #43 on: 2019-06-13 16:54:43 »
Question:

Do you think possible to "load" settings (level of character, equipment, items, etc) of the 1st game to the next game?

Or it will be a new start from lvl0?  ???

strife98

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #44 on: 2019-06-13 20:18:30 »
It'll probably load data from the previous games. I know a few games could do that in the PS2 like the .Hack games.

Manakaiser

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #45 on: 2019-06-13 20:29:35 »
While i agree with the load data, what im wondering regarding that though is how they will handle max level if you load you previous data;
It would be highly unsatisfying if the max level in the whole first episode which supposedly is around 50-60 hours long would be lvl 20-30 and if you can get to lvl 99 then will max level after episode 2 be 200? (and it would be equally unsatisfying and lot more immersion breaking (and sadly likely) if the "load data" only loads ruddimentary strawberries like quests completed and choices made and everthing else gets reset. (i find those kind of load data scenarios almost pointless) like in mass effect where it was basically an almost useless feature but it worked there because the games narrative was handled differently and wasnt a previous story with set progression split up) badly worded but you catch my drift hopefully.

Also curious how they will handle stuff like normal gear/weapons in the same veign; like will the best sword in the whole first episode be the 3rd buster sword (you can see at least 2 in the trailers eleased so far) or will you get to high tier weapons. I dont want to have a proper endgame only in the last episode, endgame and leveling for superbosses is one of my favorite parts of rpgs. All of that and much more is one of the major issues (whole progression in all aspects) i see with the episodic format.
« Last Edit: 2019-06-13 20:38:04 by Manakaiser »

EQ2Alyza

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #46 on: 2019-06-13 23:25:36 »
It seems too far from the original to load data correctly.

Izban

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #47 on: 2019-06-14 02:01:18 »
Subsequent viewings of the new content, detailed breakdowns from the lucky few who got to play at E3, have left me quite satisfied with the combat sections of the remake.

All account point to specific actions in combat making a noticeable difference, so tactics become important, ATB charges matter a great deal, without them no magic, no items and no heavy attacks/skills.

It appears status effects are present, tifa having sadness in one of the trailers, which I'm curious as to how that's going to effect combat, is it going to just slow limit build-up or is it going to have a more noticeable effect, are they going to have all status ailments or are they only gonna stick to ones that are easily relevant.

Pacing is a concern I have, 40-60hrs of Midgar is all well and good if the story is stretched correctly, depending on how they fill the story out it could be spectacular or terrible, as a caveat it appears they are adding a good deal to do with avalanche, which it a step in the right direction, they also seem to be increasing the reunion foreshadowing, which dependant on how obvious they make it could lead to some interesting story potential.

I don't think we are going to have a limited level cap, assuming GS is only about an hour in(based on escape time for the reactor)...hp given in trailer 1024 by GS, 1700 by AB 2400 by Aps, following that growth curve for until motorball 5500+hp.... This is assuming that the demo growth curve isn't twisted for testing purposes which is kinda concerning if they want to make it a continuous game rather then totally separate games, I doubt this based on heavy attack damage numbers during Aps fight only being 120-169

Other concerns I have how is materia going to be implemented, as it's clearly in game and appears variable, what about these new skills, how exactly is leveling going to work, personally I feel a sphere grid Style leveling system is most practical for the remake or ff5 role system.

Motorball is either a rubbish last boss, a fun novelty boss or an excellent first boss
« Last Edit: 2019-06-14 02:13:27 by Izban »

Kuraudo.

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #48 on: 2019-06-14 07:08:37 »
It seems too far from the original to load data correctly.
What do you mean Alyza?

-
I think anyway if true that "load data" is possible... then a level cap is a solution they might apply.

Kuraudo.

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #49 on: 2019-06-14 19:57:45 »
Cross-gen hypothesis from Yosuke Matsuda: "It's the hottest topic at the moment and we thought you might ask us that," Matsuda said. "I believe that our teams have made it so that the game will support both the next generation and the current generation of consoles. I believe it is being developed so that it is going to be playable on both, so I'm not really concerned about that and I believe that the fans are also going to be able to enjoy it on both, including the next-generation of consoles."

Kitase twitter: "Good day everyone, I'm Kitase, the producer of Final Fantasy VII Remake. There had been a raging wave of developments related to Final Fantasy VII Remake, from the sudden announcement in May, the release date reveal in an orchestra concert held in Los Angeles on June 9, and a playable demo at E3. But I'd be glad if all of our fans are delighted with the many surprises after waiting for so long. In doing a remake, what we first emphasized was to depict Midgar, which symbolized the world setting of the original Final Fantasy VII the most, in a charming way. We newly redesigned the interior structure of Midgar, and added new episodes as well as depictions of the daily lives of citizens who live there. Ultimately, just by depicting the story until the original's Escape From Midgar, we already reached a huge capacity with a pack of 2 Blu-ray discs, which should have enough density and volume for the world setting and storyline. To go along with that, we have optimized character growths and boss monster placements for this game, completely reconstructing it as a single standalone game, which we think will have become a title worth playing enough. We plan to develop the Final Fantasy VII remake project into multiple titles in the future, but we hope you will look forward to the release of the first title, Final Fantasy VII Remake, on March 3, 2020. June 14, 2019 Yoshinori Kitase, Producer of Final Fantasy VII Remake"

Kitase again: "While many people may think that Midgar is very dark at first glance, we have a design aesthetic where the city has strong elements of colour and variety. The lighting and colouring we are using throughout Midgar accentuate what is unique about FINAL FANTASY VII’s world. We decided not to use a photo-realistic approach with the design, but instead something more stylised, honouring the artistic designs and choices of the original."
« Last Edit: 2019-06-14 20:31:01 by Kuraudo. »