Author Topic: [FF7PC] Getting Reunion R06 and Remako HD to work together  (Read 6481 times)

JabbaJabba

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I realize that Reunion R06 isn't out yet, but I'm curious. What would be the installation method if I wanted to use Reunion R06 and Remako HD together? I'm only really interested in making Remako's HD backgrounds and battle textures since they don't seem to be covered by Reunion. Would it be as simple as installing Reunion first and then Remako's textures after?

mitz

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From what I understand, R06 is going to be released in IRO form.
You shouldn't have a problem using Remako with it, however I would highly recommend using these one's as they have significant more improvements in detail: http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=19204.0
Ultimately we will just have to wait til r06 is released (really soon™) to see how well everything works together.

LordUrQuan

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We'll have to wait and see, but that was pretty much the process I worked out and published for folks wanting to play with R05c.

DLPB

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Very easy.  Easier than you can imagine.  And it's not IRO form.  In fact, I am hoping R06 will be largely used instead of 7h.  I haven't made up my mind whether the two can even co-exist.

EQ2Alyza

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Very easy.  Easier than you can imagine.  And it's not IRO form.  In fact, I am hoping R06 will be largely used instead of 7h.  I haven't made up my mind whether the two can even co-exist.

Yes, it's known by now that you want 7H to sink and your work to take sole control. Them coexisting is not your decision though. The public will use what they want to use.

LeonhartGR

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Haha! The two of you could create 2 great FF rivals! The "R06 mecha apocalypse" and the "7th heaven goddess"! loool  :mrgreen:

DLPB

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Yes, it's known by now that you want 7H to sink and your work to take sole control. Them coexisting is not your decision though. The public will use what they want to use.

A few things:
1. 7h is an awful, convoluted, badly designed, gimmicky solution that tries to be an all size fits gauntlet.  Even installing the cretinous thing is a chore. I hated it from the start, but hoped it would get better.  When I realized it wouldn't, I decided to make my own solution.

2. You've caught me on a very bad day.

3. I didn't like the fact you or someone else decided to add Reunion without my permission to that pile of turd to begin with - but, that aside, the biggest problem is that an old, crap version of Reunion is out there and I can't stop it being installed and used when my intention was for it to die.

4.  The co-existing is my decision. R06 will check for 7h and will refuse to load when it's detected. Disabling R06 is VERY easy.  It's an option at the top of the Options.ini file.  So, if people want to disable it and use 7h, they can at any time. 

5. Until your response, I was willing to work with you to come to some sort of compromise.  That's gone now.  My aim is to kill 7h off.

6. It's nothing to do with "taking control"  It's the following:

a. 7h causes confusion and problems and I get bug reports because of 7h.  Nightmare.
b. It takes MY control of MY mod away from me.  The same way it takes away control of any modder's mod.
c. People start to believe 7h IS the mod.  That the work was done by 7h team.
d. My solution gives control to the modder and to the end user in a more or less painless way.
« Last Edit: 2019-10-24 23:58:56 by DLPB »

BahamutSIN

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I wonder if the compromise was making Reunion the mod manager/integrator and 7 Heaven the mod library/downloader? These two could have worked hand in hand to make the most convinient modding experience.

DLPB

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to be fair, i've had a look and it's highly unlikely the two would work together even if I wanted them to.

Chrysalis

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I am very sad to read this thread.

I do respect DLPB for his work on reunion, but it is sad to see him diss 7thheaven so bad when right now its by far the best modding tool for the game.  It is buggy but its still the best.

I dont like installing mods that require their own installer, primarily the issues are I dont know whats been replaced/updated by the installer, and also that typically these mods are not modular in the sense they play well with other mods.

For this reason my ff7 installation remained in a static configuration for several years as I didnt want to change any of the files from the working setup I had, I then discovered 7thheaven and the way it works by allowing you to setup a profile of mods to work together and dynamically load on top of a static install of ff7 is brilliant.  Ironically the only real flaw I found with 7thheaven was reunion, as it used a custom exe that was overwriting my custom changes.  This is when I realised the flaw of using custom exe's vs hext patching.

This was a prime motivator for me to look into making enhanced stock mod after I seen the hext version of reunion iro posted a while back.  As I wanted a higher resolution UI without been locked into using a specific exe and in a modular fashion.  Of course looking at all the hext code in that mod I also can see the sheer amount of work that has gone into menu overhaul.

I cannot comment on r06 modding features as it seems only a few developers have been allowed access to it, so I am completely blind as to what it is capable off, how mods will be integrated and as such enhanced stock is in a iro only format.

The problem of not been modular may still exist with r06 it seems because if I as a gamer cannot use r06 alongside mods installed via 7thheaven, then its made absolutely no progress from its r05 form.  The community should work together and not be split like this. :(

The issue raised by DLPB losing control of MO on 7thheaven I assume could be resolved by a conversation with alyzza to get it removed from that catalog and then making his own iro which he maintains by himself, sega chief maintains his own iro for new threat.  I have never heard of anyone who thinks 7thheaven is the actual mod.

LordUrQuan

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Re: [FF7PC] Getting Reunion R06 and Remako HD to work together
« Reply #10 on: 2019-10-25 13:44:40 »
Quote from: DLPB
1. 7h is an awful, convoluted, badly designed, gimmicky solution that tries to be an all size fits gauntlet.  Even installing the cretinous thing is a chore. I hated it from the start, but hoped it would get better.  When I realized it wouldn't, I decided to make my own solution.
But it works.  Usually.  It's gotten worse as MSFT changes stuff, but there's nothing the original authors could have done about that.  You've mentioned your system several times, but as far as I know, nobody outside your core Reunion team has seen it, causing everyone else (like that troll a couple months back) to go into "show it or stuff it" mode. I'm a little more patient than that, but making a YouTube demonstration to see if it's a direction we'd all like to go in would be pretty cool, and possibly help some of the graphics folks prep their own mods for easy inclusion in your system.

Quote from: DLPB
2. You've caught me on a very bad day.
Nothing we can do about that besides buy you a pint.  Or five...

Quote from: DLPB
My aim is to kill 7h off.
I'm not going to attempt to dissuade you from this goal, but since I know you're generally against releasing your source, I will remind you that this decision means you're going to be the one responsible for dealing with ALL the bug reports, ALL the bug fixing, ALL the support, ALL the whining, and ALL the unsolicited "Make this absolutely asinine change because I think it's cool RIGHT FSCKIN MEOW!!!!" demands.

Quote from: DLPB
6. It's nothing to do with "taking control"  It's the following:
b. It takes MY control of MY mod away from me.  The same way it takes away control of any modder's mod.
c. People start to believe 7h IS the mod.  That the work was done by 7h team.
I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that it's taking control away from you.  This is the internet... once it's out there, it's out there forever.  There's crap I posted almost 30 years ago still floating around Usenet, and the wayback archive still has a snapshot or two from my undergrad webpage (even though the server itself has been offline for at least a decade).  I do totally agree with the annoyance of people thinking 7H is the mod... seen it plenty myself, and want to smack them upside the head.

Quote from: BahamutSIN
I wonder if the compromise was making Reunion the mod manager/integrator and 7 Heaven the mod library/downloader?
This would be an absolute maintenance and coordination nightmare.

Quote from: Chrysalis
I dont like installing mods that require their own installer, primarily the issues are I dont know whats been replaced/updated by the installer, and also that typically these mods are not modular in the sense they play well with other mods.
This is the number one weakness in the current Reunion system.  But DLPB promises that he's giving us a new method, so I'm taking a "wait and see" stance... The beauty of 7H is its modularity and "hands-off" approach to the original files.  Of course, that also makes it brittle and vulnerable to MSFT's latest whimsy (as we so often see)

Quote from: Chrysalis
The issue raised by DLPB losing control of MO on 7thheaven I assume could be resolved by a conversation with alyzza to get it removed from that catalog and then making his own iro which he maintains by himself, sega chief maintains his own iro for new threat.  I have never heard of anyone who thinks 7thheaven is the actual mod.
Making a catalog is a long, boring, repetitive, and almost entirely thankless process, which is why updates are so rarely compiled.  I personally think catalogs are best suited for static, "release and done" projects like graphics and sound overhauls.  Mods which are constantly being updated or are otherwise flexible (Reunion and New Threat being the two most obvious examples) are really better off kept in their respective release threads so people can always fetch the latest and greatest, while the authors can kill links to older versions as appropriate.

Kaldarasha

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Re: [FF7PC] Getting Reunion R06 and Remako HD to work together
« Reply #11 on: 2019-10-25 22:25:57 »
I don't need to read this just one thing. Install bootleg 46 and than say 7H is terrible. I see a lot of trouble come with r06 because people think they can switch things as they want to...
Even though it says mod switching isn't an option.
« Last Edit: 2019-10-25 22:28:18 by Kaldarasha »

DLPB

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Re: [FF7PC] Getting Reunion R06 and Remako HD to work together
« Reply #12 on: 2019-10-25 23:49:46 »
Bootleg was terrible - just a  different type of terrible.

This part should really be the end of it:

"to be fair, i've had a look and it's highly unlikely the two would work together even if I wanted them to."

The rest is irrelevant. Having R06 run alongside 7h would create an even bigger mess. There will, of course, be mods that won't work outside of 7h.  For those, R06 will have to be disabled.  One thing R06 is not is a way to merge incompatible mods.  There's no flevel chunking or any of that nonsense.
« Last Edit: 2019-10-25 23:52:16 by DLPB »

JabbaJabba

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Re: [FF7PC] Getting Reunion R06 and Remako HD to work together
« Reply #13 on: 2019-10-26 23:31:27 »
So bringing things back to my original topic:

Very easy.  Easier than you can imagine.  And it's not IRO form.  In fact, I am hoping R06 will be largely used instead of 7h.  I haven't made up my mind whether the two can even co-exist.

Can you tell me the installation method, or is it something we'll find out when R06 comes out next week?

From what I understand, R06 is going to be released in IRO form.
You shouldn't have a problem using Remako with it, however I would highly recommend using these one's as they have significant more improvements in detail: http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=19204.0
Ultimately we will just have to wait til r06 is released (really soon™) to see how well everything works together.

Thanks for bringing this mod to my attention. I like the look of these a little more so I'll use them instead of Remako.

EQ2Alyza

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Re: [FF7PC] Getting Reunion R06 and Remako HD to work together
« Reply #14 on: 2019-10-27 01:54:47 »
A few things:
1. 7h is an awful, convoluted, badly designed, gimmicky solution that tries to be an all size fits gauntlet.  Even installing the cretinous thing is a chore. I hated it from the start, but hoped it would get better.  When I realized it wouldn't, I decided to make my own solution.

2. You've caught me on a very bad day.

3. I didn't like the fact you or someone else decided to add Reunion without my permission to that pile of turd to begin with - but, that aside, the biggest problem is that an old, crap version of Reunion is out there and I can't stop it being installed and used when my intention was for it to die.

4.  The co-existing is my decision. R06 will check for 7h and will refuse to load when it's detected. Disabling R06 is VERY easy.  It's an option at the top of the Options.ini file.  So, if people want to disable it and use 7h, they can at any time. 

5. Until your response, I was willing to work with you to come to some sort of compromise.  That's gone now.  My aim is to kill 7h off.

6. It's nothing to do with "taking control"  It's the following:

a. 7h causes confusion and problems and I get bug reports because of 7h. Nightmare.
b. It takes MY control of MY mod away from me.  The same way it takes away control of any modder's mod.
c. People start to believe 7h IS the mod.  That the work was done by 7h team.
d. My solution gives control to the modder and to the end user in a more or less painless way.

1. Yeah, I know. For years, you've scattered posts throughout this forum stating your distaste for 7H. It wasn't hard to figure that out.

2. What is the point of saying this? Is it your way of apologizing ahead of time for the rude comments you're saying? You've always spoken out this way towards other people, so I'm not buying it as justification for what you say. You have A LOT of bad days with people on these forums. It's who you are, or at the very least, who you're known to be.

3. The whole point of 7H was to move Bootleg forward in a new way. Bootleg had Reunion, but I don't remember the issues from you then. Public mods are meant for the public, especially when where you host it is built on the idea that we're a modding COMMUNITY that shares its work with each other. Bootleg was a tool to bring all the mods together for the user to pick what they want. 7H is no different in that regard.

Your "biggest problem" is not a problem. I'm not buying it. Catalog 2.0 launched with the latest Reunion at that time, so it's intentions were never to cause you problems. You're treating it like modern day PC culture, where someone famous gains traction in something they're doing, only to be publicly destroyed by bringing up a topic that happened decades ago because it fits the new "destructive" narrative for modern day culture. It's irrelevant to what is happening now, and I assure you that the intentions of Reunion in 7H was, and still is, to simply promote the mods it hosts. Reunion wasn't even going to be in 3.0 because I wanted to work together with you to get it installed from your method, and then use 7H over top it for anything extra the user wanted. I realize it's a difficult task that might not be attainable, but you never gave it a chance when:

A) You crap all over 7H for years on this forum.
B) You tell me ONE time that you'd be willing to share R06 to see what we can do, only to go completely silent and never send me anything.
C) Approach me ONE time on Discord, only to derail the conversation with, "oh fern it.  I'm gonna go my separate way..."

4. Whatever you do with R06 is your decision.

5. I'm not buying it. You never showed any pattern of wanting to work together. Just 99% silence while I sat back and had to read your distasteful comments about 7H spread around this forum.

6.
a) Again, not buying it. Majority of Reunion related reports are either using the wrong .exe to run Menu Overhaul or wanting Beacause and New Thread to work together. MO is out in Catalog 3.0, so that's one issue resolved. Beacause and New Threat won't work until you both complete your mods and work together to combine them. That's on you guys, not 7H. Besides, NT gets automatically disabled if users choose the Beacause option, so users can't even make the mistake of trying if they wanted. Any other user reports in are client related due to stupid Windows 10 updates changing the way it calls to 7H. Also, there is an active group on Discord trying to resolve this with possibly a new client build, and I'm very open to their work. There are other small bugs and fixes needed, but nothing to worry over for a public release.

b) Nope. 7H was always a tool meant the same way as Bootleg...to host mods for promotion and easier access. It essentially got rid of aimlessly searching the Qhimm forums or ctrl+F the Big List of Mods. When a mod is added, it's put in as-is (with a few exceptions). If you think it's for taking control away from the modders, then you have a warped way of thinking that was developed by yourself. Nothing publicly says that its meant to take control away from the modders.

c) Says no one.

d) Yes, it gives more control in downloading and placing the mods manually. In a more or less painless way? It's not released to the public yet, so who knows.


All of THIS is just a headache that active modders shouldn't be talking about. It's not healthy. I don't want it. Which is why I'm still willing to swallow each others pride and compromise. But you have to step up and communicate more. And perhaps tone it down a little. It's not hard to tell people that things are a bit of a problem, but that you want to help fix the problems. Even if the problem means taking out Reunion completely from the 7H Catalog...just ask for that. Not once in the past did you ask for that, but your argument clearly shows you wanted it.

Well? What say you now...

DLPB

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Re: [FF7PC] Getting Reunion R06 and Remako HD to work together
« Reply #15 on: 2019-10-27 13:42:13 »
R06 won't work with 7h because 7h relies on aali's old driver and its own processes.  There's nothing I can really do about it...   And i get the sense that if we did work some sort of fix for that...  the result would be anarchy.  It's a much better idea that people can just disable reunion whenever they want - then 7h will be loaded instead. The workload for me is already crazy - adding in checks and balances and work arounds for 7h would make me retire. 

I'll not say another word - good or bad -about 7h from this point. It's up to everyone how they proceed, what they use, how they use it. 

The reason you didn't hear back from me was because R06 is a killer of a project (11000 lines of code alone for my own dll) and sending you it half baked was not a good idea.  But now I've gone into it, it's a moot point anyway because they can't coexist properly. Your accusation that I was never ready to help is not warranted.  I know I did want to help. But don't you think I have enough to do?

It also seems that 7h has a ton of its own bugs and that Iro has vanished off the face of the planet.  It's not looking likely that 7h can be sustained long term. My biggest gripe with 7h is that it creates more trouble than it resolves.

I'd also say your conduct and conversation with me has not been ideal, either. You've been far from open minded or reasonable yourself.  Not asking for permission to add mods wasn't a good start.  That's how we've reached this impasse. I also let it slide. Even though I continually have to put up with bug reports all over my thread that are really 7h issues.  I still didn't ask for it to be removed.

I also do what I do primarily for the community. Statements intended to make it look like all I'm after is fame are nonsense. You can't do what I've done and spend this number of hours on something for free just for that. I love the game and I'm tired of having to justify myself or my mods. 

Now, I've got work to do.  This isn't how I intended to be spending my time before release day - with this nonsense.
« Last Edit: 2019-10-27 15:30:21 by DLPB »

satsuki

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Re: [FF7PC] Getting Reunion R06 and Remako HD to work together
« Reply #16 on: 2019-10-27 16:54:42 »
....Iro has vanished off the face of the planet.  It's not looking likely that 7h can be sustained long term.
That's why i realy want to see in what way r06 deal with mod, and realy hope you'll release the full source code of your work so the project can be upgraded even if you vanish too (you never know what can appens tomorrow and that's why i HATE close source projects, lots of cool project never have been upgraded because of that)

DLPB

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Re: [FF7PC] Getting Reunion R06 and Remako HD to work together
« Reply #17 on: 2019-10-27 22:46:10 »
It will be open source when, like Aali, I've ended updating.  I'll make sure someone I trust has a copy of the source though in case.

I've just tested 7h.  It's this simple:  my new method completely overrides 7h already and there is no way to stop it or change it or make 7h compatible with R06.  The only thing to do is to disable R06 when you want 7h to work.

EQ2Alyza

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Re: [FF7PC] Getting Reunion R06 and Remako HD to work together
« Reply #18 on: 2019-10-28 04:44:05 »
Yes, the main issue with 7H is that Iros vanished before things could get fully ironed out. It was picked up by a few afterwards to try and continue, but work is slow on it. None of that means it's a bad program. It's just had an unfortunate development path.

Everything leading up to now is water under the bridge at this point. MO and Because will be out of 3.0, and your program will release. There's no reason they can't co-exist, and we're going to have to anticipate the "Can R06 mod be used with 7H?" question to pop up despite how much we write it out publicly that it can't.

DLPB

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Re: [FF7PC] Getting Reunion R06 and Remako HD to work together
« Reply #19 on: 2019-10-28 14:30:50 »
The good news is that the two won't conflict.  There's not going to be a "dammit, this mod has wrong files loaded"  - it should just be a case of "7h isnt loading at all"

Gensoul

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Re: [FF7PC] Getting Reunion R06 and Remako HD to work together
« Reply #20 on: 2019-10-30 16:45:47 »
1. 7h is an awful, convoluted, badly designed, gimmicky solution that tries to be an all size fits gauntlet.  Even installing the cretinous thing is a chore. I hated it from the start, but hoped it would get better.  When I realized it wouldn't, I decided to make my own solution.

I can't speak for how much trouble or how limiting 7h is for modders... but, as an end-user, I did a one time install, then was able to add in all the mods I wanted. I've enjoyed 7H as one of the easiest modular modding experiences I've ever come across.

I don't particularly like the outdated catalogs, but I love the ability to download new mods as a single file and just plug them in and arrange them to fit my playstyle.

Gaston_Diggler

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Re: [FF7PC] Getting Reunion R06 and Remako HD to work together
« Reply #21 on: 2019-12-02 05:59:22 »
Bonjour,

I am also interesting to use this two mod together.
Is it possible to copy/past the Remako files ?

Regards

EDIT: Found in https://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=14914.5050

So what you want to do is download satsuki's upscaled backgrounds from here: http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=19204.0

Unpack the .iro files with the tool that he mentions in the thread, so that you get a bunch of .png files in different folders.
After that, move all those files to E:\Spel\Steam\steamapps\common\FINAL FANTASY VII\The_Reunion\CUSTOM\satsuki
Not the movies though, they go under E:\Spel\Steam\steamapps\common\FINAL FANTASY VII\data\movies, just replace the ones that are already there.

And then in options.ini, put this under CUSTOM

[CUSTOM]
Mod_ID = satsuki

Folder path should look like this: https://imgur.com/a/kMJLVP0
If you want scanlines, go to Reunion folder, then program_files, edit psx.post and under MISC put a 1 at #define USE_SCANLINES .

Game should look miles better now!

Let me know if you can't get it working.
« Last Edit: 2019-12-02 07:07:44 by Gaston_Diggler »

Chrysalis

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Re: [FF7PC] Getting Reunion R06 and Remako HD to work together
« Reply #22 on: 2019-12-23 18:13:03 »
That's why i realy want to see in what way r06 deal with mod, and realy hope you'll release the full source code of your work so the project can be upgraded even if you vanish too (you never know what can appens tomorrow and that's why i HATE close source projects, lots of cool project never have been upgraded because of that)

Just want to point out 7h is not a dead project.

TrueOdin and unab0mb are the current maintainers.  A new version is been worked on, alongside a newer driver.