Author Topic: picklejar's Kujatas.com is down. Alternatives for Japanese FF7 Script?  (Read 2576 times)

ocac

  • *
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
I am working on a frequency-based Japanese-for-FFVII project for which picklejar's Kujatas was immensely helpful, but it seems down.

It seems Dialogue for sections 38, 40 and 43 are not even to be found on any available web archive or cache...

I had a previous version of the project complete based on transcripts, but not only did the Japanese of these contain transcription errors, they were also typically incomplete (reflecting only single paths). With my goal being to comprehensively prime Intermediate+ Japanese learners for the language of the game, both mistaken lines and missing lines are signficant issues! Redoing everything with Kujatas (or its source) seemed the best way forward.

Additionally, having searchable side-by-side translation comparison on Kujatas was great for when I encountered ideosyncratic Japanese or kana-izations that caused issues for parsers/translation tools. That way, I could confidently infer what reading etc. was likely intended.

So:
1. There are multiple reasons Kujatas could be down and it might only be temporary, but good for people to know that it is.
2. If people are interested in my project, having the missing script and Herman1134's side-by-side comparison would be a big help to me. Seems DLPB has shared the script in the past, but I don't know if thats still possible, understandably.
3. Was the Japanese script picklejar used the most correct and complete version? I am guessing Kujatas had no updates since changing host in 2018, but DLPB and luksy have been doing so much work on the translation, I wonder if they might have unearthed e.g. overlooked script snippets or even errors in the original Japanese.

Ultimately, the aim would be to either produce flashcards for learners or a tabular glossary, with a focus on vocabulary outside "ordinary" intermediate written Japanese. Happy to illustrate it if people are interested!

I was about to make a fresh start with the fuller and improved script having picked up the Japanese PS4 edition and readied a Japanese text/audio playthrough of Remake, but, this is a disheartening stumbling block right now. Really appreciate any help that the community here can offer, and any interest in my own project!
« Last Edit: 2020-06-09 12:34:16 by ocac »

picklejar

  • *
  • Posts: 145
    • View Profile
1. kujatas.com is back up now, sorry!

2. ocac: Responded to you via email and gave you a copy of Herman1134's spreadsheet.

3. What is "most correct and complete" is a matter of opinion:

(a) Re: Official Square translations: There are multiple versions of the game: original JP, original US, then FF7 International, then Square fixed little things here and there with re-releases on newer platforms, etc.

(b) Re: Unofficial fan-made translations, I know of 2 major ones: (i) Beacause project, which is probably the most thorough; (ii) Kotaku's "Let's Mosey" series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZefYEaNUJ7w

Some final thoughts:

A guy named Roden was working on a project where someone could see Japanese and English side-by-side INSIDE THE ACTUAL GAME while playing it. I don't know if he ever published it. For more information, look for Roden's post on my topic: http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=16481.0

In general, there are lots of ways to learn a new language, and in my experience, the wider of variety of ways of exposing yourself to a language, the better. Having translations side-by-side is one way. Flashcards is another. Kotaku's video series is another. There are probably even better ways, like interactive games, crossword puzzles, word search puzzles, and who knows what else.

I abandoned this project a long time ago, but if I had to do it over again, I would do many things different. I would probably use a wider variety of Final Fantasy material as sources. I would not try to choose just FF7 Classic or FF7 Remake, I would use both, and I would probably include other Final Fantasy games as well. Final Fantasy Tactics also had a bad translation in the original game, then it was retranslated in one of the re-releases (War of the Lions? can't remember). And there are tons of other FF games out there. In fact, I'd perhaps even research which of all the Final Fantasy games had the best localization jobs done?

Having said all that... regardless of how you approach it, thanks in advance for contributing and helping people learn Japanese. No matter how big or small your project is, any contribution at all is special and will be appreciated by many people, even if you are never aware of it. :)

ocac

  • *
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Thanks so much for this! It's great to see the site up and healthy. Really appreciate the spreadsheet too.
I will keep trying to make something good of all this, and thanks for the encouragement to that end.

Regarding 3., I know what you mean! I am trying to at least have a reliable Japanese source, and am only using translations as a cross-reference if the Japanese is unclear. Roden's idea certainly sounds cool, but I haven't seen anything released.

I very much get what you're saying about the wider variety of sources. Something I want to integrate is the concept of "Range" rather than just "Frequency". For example, I have done this with Zelda games for myself, identifying the "core Zelda vocabulary" that appears in all Zelda games and then lower ranges, ranked by average frequency in the games they appear. I think the same idea of what makes vocabulary significant applies not just to franchises (even across media - game and anime), but whole genres.

I do think regular and nutritious input is such a big part, and as you say, it has to come from a number of angles. I used to be very slavish about drilling flashcards (with reviews eating into time I would spend reading, etc.), but now see that more as a short- to mid-term strategy (to get a leg-up for extensive reading/watching, etc.), whereas I think regularly consuming media (reading, playing, listening, etc.) is more significant long-term. Hope it helps others too!

picklejar

  • *
  • Posts: 145
    • View Profile
Yep, everything you made makes perfect sense, and I have a feeling that whatever you're building will be super helpful.

Totally agree with you about how flash cards are good for early phases. They are fantastic for learning small bits like letters and vocabulary. But once you get good, you start facing problems because there is more than one way to translate a flashcard, you're beyond the basics and now you wanna learn the nuances of synonyms, and which grammar structures are more common, and stuff like that. So at that point, yeah, you need both Range and Frequency.

However, flash cards are still pretty damn effective, and there are ways to reduce the time you need to spend on them. For example, I use Anki, because it optimizes how often you need to review each card, based on how well you did the last couple of times you looked at it.

I just had an idea for an app. It's basically a PLATFORM where people submit tons of examples of translations from video games or whatever media they want. Also, either the submitter or any user can optionally "tag" each snippet with meta info like language, video game name, character name, grammar concept, pre-requisite concepts that need to be learned first, etc. Each user can rate each snippet according to how hard it is, how effective it is, and also mark "favorite tags" (like Zelda or final fantasy). Over time, the app could get intelligent and self-learn which concepts are harder than others, which snippets are more effective than others, and which kinds of media and sources /genres / games a particular user prefers, etc.

So basically, people just continually add content and consume it and rate it, and over time it becomes super fun and effective!