Author Topic: "One" question, if someone can help.  (Read 5884 times)

Edgah

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"One" question, if someone can help.
« on: 2006-02-22 00:04:37 »
Ever since the first time I had ever played Final Fantasy VII on the PSX I had always noticed there are two empty slots in your PHS menu (After losing our beloved flower girl of course)... I always wanted to fill those slots, and heard ENDLESS rumors about reviving Aeris and getting Zack, or Young Cloud, or Sephiroth in your group... We all know this is BS......

Recently, I put my FF7 PC disc aside, and tried out this Ultima Edition, nicely enough it has fully updated Final Fantasy 7 PC to it's latest known 'official' patch (I believe...) Now, knowing what I'm using (And do keep in mind I did pirate this, but have owned FF7 since it first came out on BOTH platforms) IS THERE ANY WAY to add Aeris AND Sephiroth to my PHS menu??? I've found ENDLESS methods, but each one resorts in losing another character to put the new active character in (Usually vincint being the victim, who I happen to like...)

So, if anyone knows a way for PC, without a gameshark (Although if there IS a solid gameshark method TOO, I'm interested in both) please fill me in, and help direct me to any 'programs' that may be used... I would much appreciate it... Thanks.

Midgar

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"One" question, if someone can help.
« Reply #1 on: 2006-02-22 00:09:09 »
Er we don't support warez users (but then again, someone did this and Qhimm unlocked it because they said that they had the real one too)...
It might have been a good idea not to say that.
But this has been dicussed
http://forums.qhimm.com/viewtopic.php?t=5122&highlight=full+team
EDIT: And you can't ever control Sephiroth.

dziugo

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"One" question, if someone can help.
« Reply #2 on: 2006-02-22 06:55:34 »
Adding Aeris back is possible and it would be just setting (or resetting...) the bit in your save-game. 5 minutes of work with a hexeditor and calculating new CRC. That would however cause your game to crash in few places (that's what I've heard).

dziugo

Emerald Weapon

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Re: "One" question, if someone can help.
« Reply #3 on: 2006-02-22 10:42:41 »
Quote from: Edgah
IS THERE ANY WAY to add Aeris AND Sephiroth to my PHS m


*Grabs big, heavy hammerlike-object and drops it on skull*

Hi and welcome to the forums!

Edgah

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"One" question, if someone can help.
« Reply #4 on: 2006-02-22 18:21:33 »
Quote
Er we don't support warez users


I wasn't implying I was being the typical jerk that rips off Squaresoft, I DO FULLY OWN the CD, on BOTH platforms, and only mentioned it so that anyone who would try to help me out would know how far patched my version is to help out any confusion incase there was a possible way noted in any version.

Quote
But this has been dicussed
http://forums.qhimm.com/viewtopic.php?t=5122&highlight=full+team


Thank you.

Quote
Adding Aeris back is possible and it would be just setting (or resetting...) the bit in your save-game.

Would you know where-about the hex area would be to make it where you can actually USE HER with the PHS... I tried jenova program for the first time yesterday, and was unable to REMOVE her from the party... I guess it's because her last apperance she HAD to be in the party...

Quote
Hi and welcome to the forums!


Hey, thanks a lot man. ^_^

dziugo

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« Reply #5 on: 2006-02-22 19:43:16 »
Look at qhimm's wiki for the explanation. Offsets are a little bit off:
Code: [Select]
0x10AD - PHS Locking Mask - Should be 0x10A4
0x10AF - PHS Visibility Mask - Should be 0x10A6

Rest should be fine. Xor those with appropriate value and that's it. Use this to recalculate the checksums for your save-game.

dziugo

Midgar

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« Reply #6 on: 2006-02-22 23:38:41 »
I understand that, thats why I supplied you with information also...
Dziugo, could you help us dumbasses that don't know how to get Aeris into our party by making us a patch? Anytime this year would be good, I will still be playing it for a long time.^^

dziugo

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« Reply #7 on: 2006-02-23 06:24:18 »
It would be useless. Having Aeris in your party when she is dead (disc2+) would cause crashes, and I don't want to hear "Hey, your patch crashes the game, fix it!" as I don't know an easy way to do so...

dziugo

Emerald Weapon

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« Reply #8 on: 2006-02-23 11:37:17 »
Quote from: Edgah

Hey, thanks a lot man. ^_^


No thanks! And just to point it out, it was nothing personal, just me and my weird brainthingie when I hear someone asking if it's possible to... :wink:

VincentVal

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« Reply #9 on: 2006-03-02 01:00:40 »
There mus be another switch that activates when she is killed, if we find this and create dialog for her, it MIGHT just be possible to overcome this

Alhexx

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« Reply #10 on: 2006-03-02 12:20:14 »
Quote from: Edgah
I wasn't implying I was being the typical jerk that rips off Squaresoft, I DO FULLY OWN the CD, on BOTH platforms, and only mentioned it so that anyone who would try to help me out would know how far patched my version is to help out any confusion incase there was a possible way noted in any version.


We generally do not give any support for the Ultima version, since it is a) illegal and b) it has not only the offical patches applied, but also cracks.
Nobody really knows what patches or cracks have been applied to the Ultima version, so that's another reason why we do not support it.

 - Alhexx

VincentVal

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« Reply #11 on: 2006-03-02 12:32:29 »
the ULtIMA version has only two things wrong with it,
1) no CD - CRACK
2) Slightly altered dialog

EmperorSteele

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« Reply #12 on: 2006-03-02 13:56:28 »
Dzuigo: Mind you, i say this with 100% ignorance of how FF7 works, buuut...

I think the game crashes with Aeris because she simply doesn't have lines.  As you probably know, whichever character is in the top-most slot (besides Cloud) usually has first priority when the game wants one of your party members to make a generic reaction.  I'm sure a good chuck of crashes would be avoided if Aeris was palced in the bottom slot.

However, you can't force users to do this.

Or does the game do a check before "summoning" the characters from Cloud to see what lines they have?  Would this check cause an illegal operation if a character didn't have at least one assigned line?  Would this be fixed by GIVING aeris lines?  Becasue I know the same thing happens with Sephiroth, or if you place, say, Cid in your party before you actually get him (though at much less of a frequency)

I know that goes above and beyond programing, and Im not trying to convince you to make a patch, but seeing this head made my thinking-gears start turning.

Basically, what I'm saying is that if someone wants an aeris patch THAT bad, have them edit field.lgp and give Aeris lines in every scene before you even consider coding-up a patch =P (But make sure this would work first!)

[edit]  Or does it have to do with the fact that the game doesn't have any movement/animation data for aeris at these points? (For instance, I know that she picks herself up at the great glacier when you crash the snowboard... but short of that, the game probably does't know to tell her wher to run/how to move at most of these other points...)  That would be a lot harder to get around =P

Borde

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« Reply #13 on: 2006-03-02 14:28:37 »
I think it's because there is no script for that character and the game forces every character in your party to do something. The problem is that adding script doesn't seems easy at all. I've seen a table of op-codes at Quimm's wiki, but there is no meaning nor synatx for most of them, so I assume it hasn't been decoded yet.

VincentVal

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« Reply #14 on: 2006-03-02 21:23:11 »
Emporer steele, borde, you are BOTH on the right track but this was proven wrong in the japanese version where after Aeris died she still has lines for her part, so that goes to my theory of there being a switch in the EXE or savefile that activates after she dies giving the crash.

EmperorSteele

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« Reply #15 on: 2006-03-03 04:56:38 »
Actually, she still has lines in the US version anyway: You can take her snowboarding and to fort condor in disk 2.  She was programed to work in these areas before the decision was made to kill her, or they just didn't know WHEN to do it (maybe they were aiming for late disk 2?).   Regaurdless, she and sephy won't work in -MOST- areas.  For instance, even though she works in fort condor, she won't work at north corel just before you go chasing the train (if i recall correctly).  But she wouldnt ahve or need any specail lines or animations... in fact, in the north corel part, your two team members are assigned one of two pre-chosen spots to run to, and since Aeris HAS a run animation, i don't see what would cause a crash at this point, short of the game flipping out that she's there but doesn't have a line (even though the triary character won't have to say anything anyway)

Qhimm

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« Reply #16 on: 2006-03-03 15:14:06 »
Right, before I lose my patience and rip someone's spleen out for asking: there is no way to get a working Aeris character for disc 2+3, short of rescripting that entire half of the game. Which we can't do, not even technically (yet). And speaking as a programmer, there is no evidence to support there were ever plans for anything else than for her to die. Yes she does have some lines at a few select places through-out the rest of the game, but there is also an overwhelming majority of non-existant lines. The few that are there could be simply because they hadn't fully decided to which places you should be able to go before Aeris dies, and so she has some lines in places she, in the end, was never able to visit. Isolated incidents like "ghost in the church" and similar stuff with no deeper support in the story should never be seen as having a deeper meaning, in fact I bet the game scripter that wrote that ghost Aeris easter egg into the game on his spare time is having a good time watching the world-wide speculation frenzy that caused.

Technically speaking, it's not so much a problem of Aeris not having any lines, it's more a case of Aeris not existing in those places. In each and every FF7 location, all the characters are scripted into the scene (as the on-screen characters you see), and then the ones that are actually supposed to appear on screen are selected from those based on your current party. Each scripted character can have different lines and actions, thus the actual dialog you get can depend on the current party. If Aeris is in your party, but she does not have a scripted on-screen representation for her to "step into", the game engine will freak out (a little bit like dereferencing a null pointer, though the game script engine is of course a bit more abstracted than that).

VincentVal

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« Reply #17 on: 2006-03-03 21:45:47 »
hmm.. I think Qhimm is right on this one, but it has also been proven that Aeris wasn't going to die in the origional storyline, but something else was going to happen.

Caddberry

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« Reply #18 on: 2006-03-04 05:07:03 »
Quote from: VINCENTVAL
hmm.. I think Qhimm is right on this one, but it has also been proven that Aeris wasn't going to die in the origional storyline, but something else was going to happen.


I don't know how you can say its been proven she wasn't going to die in the original.. I thought that it was more of a possibility that you could perhaps revive her.. And it just seemed that they scrapped the idea.. Either way.. I don't think you can say it's proven can you? Maybe I missed something..

Either way .. for all we know maybe she was supposed to originally die at the end..

EmperorSteele

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« Reply #19 on: 2006-03-04 14:56:37 »
Quote from: VINCENTVAL
hmm.. I think Qhimm is right on this one, but it has also been proven that Aeris wasn't going to die in the origional storyline, but something else was going to happen.


Yes, but the original story line only had three characters =P

My point?  it's not like they were 95% done with the game before deciding on a whim to kill Aeris.  Tifa, the character they made to "replace" her, plays a far too important role to have just been stuffed in at the last second.  So really, your argument is invalid, because they weren't even done coding the game, and that "original" script was more like a first rough draft.

Besides, I fail to see what "but but they wern't going to at first" has to do with the fact that Aeris is absent from the whole second half of the game.  She's gone, deal with it =)

And Qhimm: Chill dude, spleen-ripping = bad ;)  But thanks for your explination for just WHY the game crashes =)  That's something I'd been wondering about =)