Author Topic: Sony bites Nintendo's style, chokes on the seed  (Read 8755 times)

Covarr

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Sony bites Nintendo's style, chokes on the seed
« on: 2006-05-09 07:17:38 »
Sony has announced that the PS3 controller will feature motion detection. Other than that, it will be a PS2 dualshock without vibration. Basically, they stole an idea, and overcomplicated what they already had, while throwing away something else they stole.

Opinions?

James Pond

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Re: Sony bites Nintendo's style, chokes on the seed
« Reply #1 on: 2006-05-09 08:30:14 »
I think that you need to wait and see what has actually been produced before judging it.

ChaosControl

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Re: Sony bites Nintendo's style, chokes on the seed
« Reply #2 on: 2006-05-09 08:50:29 »
Lol the facts tell me this:

- It stole the motion sensor of Nintendo
- Its too pricey (600 euros isnt even competetive)
- it stole some xbox stuff

so its really gonnu suck imho, but you're right we'll see how it turns out.

L. Spiro

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Re: Sony bites Nintendo's style, chokes on the seed
« Reply #3 on: 2006-05-09 10:25:51 »
It’s Sony; what can you expect?
If their products reflected their own minds we would get a black box with a hole on top between some fake breasts and a sticker that reads, “We give you sex, now insert money into hole”.

Meanwhile Microsoft would just ship a big dollar sign with two slots on top where the user can insert money.


There is difference between wanting money to survive and wanting money out of pure greed.
Nintendo takes profit cuts to uphold their quality standards, while Sony and Microsoft don’t care what kind of games are made for their systems; anything based off sex and blood is good because it sells.

You’ll never see Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball on Nintendo and you’ll never see Brain Age on PlayStation or Xbox.
One cares about innovation, quality entertainment, and family, while the others just care about money.


L. Spiro

ChaosControl

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Re: Sony bites Nintendo's style, chokes on the seed
« Reply #4 on: 2006-05-09 12:59:21 »
It’s Sony; what can you expect?
If their products reflected their own minds we would get a black box with a hole on top between some fake breasts and a sticker that reads, “We give you sex, now insert money into hole”.

Meanwhile Microsoft would just ship a big dollar sign with two slots on top where the user can insert money.


There is difference between wanting money to survive and wanting money out of pure greed.
Nintendo takes profit cuts to uphold their quality standards, while Sony and Microsoft don’t care what kind of games are made for their systems; anything based off sex and blood is good because it sells.

You’ll never see Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball on Nintendo and you’ll never see Brain Age on PlayStation or Xbox.
One cares about innovation, quality entertainment, and family, while the others just care about money.


L. Spiro
Yesh i was thinking the same thing and thus fully agree with your statement. The thing is.. If nintendo doesn't survive this generation of console gaming, what'll happen to the console gaming industry?

Sad Jari

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Re: Sony bites Nintendo's style, chokes on the seed
« Reply #5 on: 2006-05-09 13:31:20 »
Covarr: Well, they gave the worst controller in the industry (IM-not-so-H-O) yet another chance. Personally, I don't like PSX/PS2-controllers; they are too small for my hands, the plastic on the controller body is slippery and perhaps worse; the analog sticks can get slippery if your hands get sweaty, the finish is bad; at least mine has sharpish edges around the seam, and it just feels flimsy, like some cheap toy - especially obvious with the shoulder buttons.

And the motion detection... well, that's just Sony "innovation" at work. :-D


EDIT: Interesting speculation about PS3 features. Sensing... PS3 fanboys shutting up about the lack of HDMI on 360... right about now. :P

More seriously though, it's starting to look that most of the hype has been just hype (What? A console manufacturer? Hype? Say it ain't so!), or PS3 is turning out to be more expensive to manufacture than Sony thought.

EDIT2: A picture. Amusing one, even. Although I wish that they had stolen some Engrish skillz as well.
« Last Edit: 2006-05-09 15:27:38 by Sad Jari »

Threesixty

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Re: Sony bites Nintendo's style, chokes on the seed
« Reply #6 on: 2006-05-09 17:39:49 »
I have no problems with the PS2 controllers. Except maybe for the Shoulder buttons not lasting more than 50 hours of Virtua Fighter 4 playing, before sticking or losing it's action for one reason or another.

(and my hand from the tip of my middle finger to the edge of my palm is about 7 1/2 inches, if that means anything.)

Sad Jari

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Re: Sony bites Nintendo's style, chokes on the seed
« Reply #7 on: 2006-05-09 19:00:29 »
About 7 1/4" here, and it's seriously too small for my taste. :-(

Depending on my grip, I would like the... handle-thingies to be an inch or two longer (and bit thicker!), and/or the whole thing to be considerably "fuller" (fatter, if you will), more like Xbox S-controller.

ficedula

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Re: Sony bites Nintendo's style, chokes on the seed
« Reply #8 on: 2006-05-09 19:37:17 »

Yesh i was thinking the same thing and thus fully agree with your statement. The thing is.. If nintendo doesn't survive this generation of console gaming, what'll happen to the console gaming industry?

Given that Nintendo was making the biggest profit of all three console manufacturers from the last round of console gaming, with the alleged "failure" of the 'cube ... the question you should really be asking is: if the Revolution/Wii actually takes off big time, how much trouble do you think that puts Sony in?

Sad Jari

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Re: Sony bites Nintendo's style, chokes on the seed
« Reply #9 on: 2006-05-09 19:48:32 »
fice: Is that profit figure for the console/entertainment/whatever-division in the case of M$ and Sony, or the whole company?

Just curious. :)

I kinda assume that it's for the console-division only, since I can't really see big N being more profitable than the whole of M$. :P

ficedula

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Re: Sony bites Nintendo's style, chokes on the seed
« Reply #10 on: 2006-05-09 22:31:56 »
Yeah, the figures are just for the entertainment divisions.

Of course, in the case of MS, they're (still) losing money on the xbox/xbox360, so my personal ebay account makes more profit than they do. Still, you're right: backed by Microsoft's rather large bank account, they can afford to do so in order to gain market share, and then ... in theory ... start ramping up profit later on in the console lifecycle.

Nintendo, to some extent, don't care so much about market share: they're making larger profits off their console than anybody else, and the fact that Microsoft is shipping more units doesn't really matter when the more N ship, the more they make, but the more MS ship, the more they lose... Also, Nintendo really are aiming at a somewhat different market to MS/Sony - it's not just marketing bullshit - so they're somewhat insulated from any alleged console war.

Sony is the company I'm interested to see whether they'll manage ... well, not to survive, I don't see them disappearing ... but they seem rather vulnerable at the moment. They sold something in the region of 6x more consoles than anybody else last time around (PS2), and were able to start pulling in profit towards the end of its lifecycle, if not so much as Nintendo. But this time around, MS has got their console out first, and it's cheaper; that's kind of the opposite position to last time when the xbox was the expensive late arrival...

(And yes, to belatedly answer the topic title, I did find it immensely amusing that after dismissing the Nintendo controller as gimmicky, Sony suddenly pull a motion sensitive controlled out of their arse for E3. Hmmm.)

Midgar

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Re: Sony bites Nintendo's style, chokes on the seed
« Reply #11 on: 2006-05-10 04:05:19 »
I hope I don't seem too obtuse by saying this, but I don't think the sex sells thing is what keeps X-Box and PlayStation alive. Its the series... Some examples...
PlayStation= Final Fantasy
Grand Theft Auto
X-Box= Halo
Sega games (Dead or Alive)
Nintendo= Super Smash Brothers
Zelda
Resident Evil
Take away the third parties and Nintendo clearly would win. Mario can kick Master Chief's ass anyday, and Crash Bandicoot is dead.

L. Spiro

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Re: Sony bites Nintendo's style, chokes on the seed
« Reply #12 on: 2006-05-10 06:02:11 »
Grand Theft Auto: * is sex; they even had the most controversial sex scene in commercial-gaming history (obviously special-interest games go far beyond, but those are not in the same catagory).
Toppled with violence—remember I did add this to their selling points too.

And even Final Fantasy is becoming sex-based.  Interesting way to dress the heroins in Final Fantasy X-2, don’t you think?  I remember people looking bug-eyed at posters of the game before it came out, explaining to me how hot Yuna is in that “outfit”.  Meanwhile Zelda has never had attire-related dilemas.


Halo doesn’t hit on either of these two points, luckily enough for it; it actually managed to sell for the right reasons—interesting design, interactive physics, appealing landscape/world, etc.
But make a chart of how often each system brings this type of game into the world and see which console has the best track record.


L. Spiro

ChaosControl

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Re: Sony bites Nintendo's style, chokes on the seed
« Reply #13 on: 2006-05-10 07:16:14 »

Yesh i was thinking the same thing and thus fully agree with your statement. The thing is.. If nintendo doesn't survive this generation of console gaming, what'll happen to the console gaming industry?

Given that Nintendo was making the biggest profit of all three console manufacturers from the last round of console gaming, with the alleged "failure" of the 'cube ... the question you should really be asking is: if the Revolution/Wii actually takes off big time, how much trouble do you think that puts Sony in?
Frankly, I don't care.. I hope Sony Playstation dies! Then the 3rd party dev's are forced to make games for an innovative console like the Wii.

ye-roon

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Re: Sony bites Nintendo's style, chokes on the seed
« Reply #14 on: 2006-05-10 07:47:52 »
yesterday i streamed the press converance from nintendo, and i also saw the one from sony. Sony said in the last bit something really small about the motion sensor thing and didnt have anything operational yet. Yet nintendo showed alot of stuff using the motion sensor thingy. As reggie said: seeing is not believing, playing is believing. well for me, seeing was believing, casue damn i cant imagine the gameplay possibilities with that type of control. And i know that this will atract 3rd party devs to make stuff on the wii.

But it looks like Sony is afraid. 2 versions, hmmz xbox360 had 2 versions, maybe they are afraid that one needs 2 versions otherwise people think its not worth buying. Motion sensors, hmmz, are they afraid that the new control style with wii is soo good that they gonna lose market share? Imho what sony needs is to develop somethign complety their own and sell that. cause again with the stealing stuff, most gamers i know hate back stabbing...

James Pond

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Re: Sony bites Nintendo's style, chokes on the seed
« Reply #15 on: 2006-05-10 08:38:02 »
I too streamed the Nintendo press conference, and I have actually decided to buy a Wii because of it.

I dont know what it was about the whole thing, but I have been convinced that the Wiicon isnt the faliure of a controller I first thought it was.

Still look like a prick playing it though.

Borde

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Re: Sony bites Nintendo's style, chokes on the seed
« Reply #16 on: 2006-05-10 09:24:06 »
I'm quiet displeased with Sony too. I really liked the PS1. It had some of my favourite games. It rivals with the SNES as my favourite console.
But with the PS2 they have got too cocky lately. They remind me to the time when Sega got mad and started bitching about Nintendo. They sistematically look down to their competitors. They have the monopoly and they know it. And I frankly think that with their deprectaed hardware they have being dragging the advance of the industry.
Their prices polycy also suck. Oh, come on, who expectes selling a PS1 for 90 euros nowadays? I've even seen the GC for 65 euros!
Then again, the GC has disapointed me a bit too. Yes, it's cheap, quiet powerful and VERY resistent.It has some really good games (Smash bros is probably the best multiplayer I've seen for a console). But Nintendo failed misarably to gather the atention of the third parties for it and they paid a high price. I bought one a year ago and I'm prety regretful (hope at least they make Twilight Princes really worthy).
The Wii (man, how I hate the new name...), however, it's looking quiet promising. I really hope they start to gather a nice share of the market and teach Sony a leason.

FeuFeu

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Re: Sony bites Nintendo's style, chokes on the seed
« Reply #17 on: 2006-05-10 10:28:19 »
While I also love Nintendo and am a proud owner of a GameCube, I also hate them for their lack of creativity when it comes to game characters. I'm sick and tired of their countless Mario/Donkey/Zelda/etc games : i.e. Mario Golf, Mario Tennis, Mario Foot, Mario Party, Paper Mario... Is it too hard to introduce new heroes ? Nostalgia and solid fanbase cannot excuse this.
From this point, they seem far worse than anyone else.

I'm glad they don't this when it comes to console... It won't stop me from buying a Wii, but the games, or more accurately the absence of nice games will surely make me think twice about it. I won't buy another Mario game ever again unless it's really worth it.

Emerald Weapon

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Re: Sony bites Nintendo's style, chokes on the seed
« Reply #18 on: 2006-05-10 11:40:43 »
I think Sony should burn hard for their cheap stealing from Nintendo. I remember some Sony chief calling the Wii-controller "gimmicky" and useless, and now look what the b****** at Sony implemented in their controller: motion-detection. "A whole new gaming experience". Oh, bullocks. Sort off!

I hope gamers will realize Nintendo focuses completely on motion detection, whereas Sony merely hastily put it in as an "extra". The Wii-controller will therefore work much better with games than theirs.

Even some of my friends, hardcore Sony fans, think this is at least a bit of an "odd move" from Sony.

@ FeuFeu: Hating Nintendo for lack of creativity? I think Nintendo is, compared to Sony and Nintendo, an enormous spring of creativity! Sure, you do have a point on the game characters. However, as long as most games involving these characters remain really good games, why complain? Like L. Spiro said, Nintendo is the only company that doesn't go merely for the big money. They could've easily, GTA on the Cube and so on.

And this way of working pays off in the end, compare PSP sales to  DS sales in Japan...

FeuFeu

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Re: Sony bites Nintendo's style, chokes on the seed
« Reply #19 on: 2006-05-10 12:36:48 »
I totally agree about Nintendo being innovative and daring. In almost every field... EXCEPT game characters. Please don't generalize my opinion :-)
And I also really hope Sony gets punished one day for all the features they "invented".


Indeed, as long as games are good, I can overcome it. For example, I found the Donkey Konga series really fun. But that's not always the case. "Dance Dance Revolution Mario Mix" was a lame attempt to have a DDR-like on the NGC in my opinion.

About GTA... I think they'd rather modify some bits before releasing it : you'd then play as Wario/Waluigi/Bowser, being able to plan abduction of Peach and fry a bunch of Toads on the way, and of course, you'd be pursued by Mario/Luigi wearing cop uniforms. Oh man, I can already see it on the stores :-P Nevermind...
Anyway I'm not implying there can't be a game like this on a Nintendo console, that would be forgetting Resident Evil 4 and other similar games.

ChaosControl

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Re: Sony bites Nintendo's style, chokes on the seed
« Reply #20 on: 2006-05-10 13:36:55 »
I totally agree about Nintendo being innovative and daring. In almost every field... EXCEPT game characters. Please don't generalize my opinion :-)
And I also really hope Sony gets punished one day for all the features they "invented".


Indeed, as long as games are good, I can overcome it. For example, I found the Donkey Konga series really fun. But that's not always the case. "Dance Dance Revolution Mario Mix" was a lame attempt to have a DDR-like on the NGC in my opinion.

About GTA... I think they'd rather modify some bits before releasing it : you'd then play as Wario/Waluigi/Bowser, being able to plan abduction of Peach and fry a bunch of Toads on the way, and of course, you'd be pursued by Mario/Luigi wearing cop uniforms. Oh man, I can already see it on the stores :-P Nevermind...
Anyway I'm not implying there can't be a game like this on a Nintendo console, that would be forgetting Resident Evil 4 and other similar games.


I think the lack of game characters is mainly becuase of the lack of 3rd party support.
On the Wii however, many 3rd party devlopers are very interrested becuase Nintendo finally came with something new!

The 3rd party developers can now use more tools for interaction and as a developer you must admit it's way more fun to program for something NEW instead of making the same kinda game all over again with minor changes. I mean, how many fps are practicly the same? or RPG? or platformer? etc...

Nintendo opened a new dimension in gameplay which atracks big 3rd party support of the big company's, even the small company's because Nintendo is giving programming software to devs so it's easier for smaller company's to produce games.

I can't see a single fault in Nintendo's new console, it'll be the start of a new gaming era. (this is good because now Sony and Microsoft are forced to make some innovative changes of their own... which they probably can't and die.)

Emerald Weapon

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Re: Sony bites Nintendo's style, chokes on the seed
« Reply #21 on: 2006-05-10 14:55:24 »
I totally agree about Nintendo being innovative and daring. In almost every field... EXCEPT game characters. Please don't generalize my opinion :-)

Sorry, that wasn't my intention. As I said before, you are absolutely right on the characters.

Indeed, as long as games are good, I can overcome it. For example, I found the Donkey Konga series really fun. But that's not always the case. "Dance Dance Revolution Mario Mix" was a lame attempt to have a DDR-like on the NGC in my opinion.

Correct, DDRMM sucked big time. However, I think there are more high quality games involving the veteran characters then really bad ones. Name one bad Zelda-game, or Metroid-game. Mario is perhaps the exception here indeed.

About GTA... I think they'd rather modify some bits before releasing it : you'd then play as Wario/Waluigi/Bowser, being able to plan abduction of Peach and fry a bunch of Toads on the way, and of course, you'd be pursued by Mario/Luigi wearing cop uniforms. Oh man, I can already see it on the stores :-P Nevermind...
Anyway I'm not implying there can't be a game like this on a Nintendo console, that would be forgetting Resident Evil 4 and other similar games.

Haha, great game that would be. You could also decide to work for Bowser and become a real crimelord. Then you'd have to put dirty paint on all kinds of houses and then escape from the Toad-cops! Yeah!

I can't see a single fault in Nintendo's new console, it'll be the start of a new gaming era. (this is good because now Sony and Microsoft are forced to make some innovative changes of their own... which they probably can't and die.)

I can, some games might prove very hard to play with the controller. For example something like a real racing game (not Mario Kart). But we'll see.
As for Microsoft, they just wish they had used the motion-control idea too. Now they'll be one step behind this entire generation. However they might just come with a new motion-detection controller later on. I wouldn't be suprised.
« Last Edit: 2006-05-10 14:59:24 by Emerald Weapon »

Sad Jari

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Re: Sony bites Nintendo's style, chokes on the seed
« Reply #22 on: 2006-05-10 15:09:57 »
I can, some games might prove very hard to play with the controller. For example something like a real racing game (not Mario Kart). But we'll see.
As for Microsoft, they just wish they had used the motion-control idea too. Now they'll be one step behind this entire generation. However they might just come with a new motion-detection controller later on. I wouldn't be suprised.

They could just resurrect the Sidewinder-pad that had motion detection. Back in the '99. :P

It's not comparable to Wii's controller, but pretty close to PS3's one.


EDIT: Apologies to PS3 fans for the rather... provocative nature of the picture here, but it does have a point. Well, several, actually.

Note that not only has there been a genocide of connectors there, but the power connector and the power switch have mysteriously shrunk to much smaller size. Or maybe the console itself has grown much larger. But it couldn't be huge like Xbox, could it? :P

Just a disclaimer; I have no idea if the new picture is genuine, but it was bit too amusing not to post.
« Last Edit: 2006-05-13 06:13:26 by Sad Jari »