Author Topic: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new  (Read 20737 times)

ff7rules

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I know I'm probably going to get flamed for posting this but here goes. Recently a team of people have got together and started trying to crack the LZS compression format. We can view the models in FFv7 but all there bones and joints are allover the place, anyway from there we exported it to whatever model building program we each use.

However our problem is we can't get it back into the LZS format, is there anyway to do this we have a very good willing model maker willing to make loads of unique new stuff for ff7 but hes only interested in the PSX version atm. We have looked at wiki and see that the files are indeed different to the PC versions and we see that each joint is spilt from each other. The modeller is going to make a low poly model with the exact same requirements as the one we are replacing and the exact same animation's same vertices's polygons joints bones everything it'll be like the original model but made better or colored differently so here's my question is there anyway to convert the model back to LZs when we are done?
« Last Edit: 2009-03-02 21:39:46 by ff7rules »

NFITC1

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #1 on: 2009-03-03 00:25:09 »
If you're talking about this kind of LZS then Ficedula's FiceLZS will compress it to a "level 4".

I got WM to compress the text files of the KERNEL.BIN a little better than Ficedula's (in fact, it uses the game's compression level to create identical files from raw data) so if you really need it, I could make a simple compression prog. Only catch is it may take a few days.

ff7rules

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #2 on: 2009-03-03 01:16:39 »
If you're talking about this kind of LZS then Ficedula's FiceLZS will compress it to a "level 4".

I got WM to compress the text files of the KERNEL.BIN a little better than Ficedula's (in fact, it uses the game's compression level to create identical files from raw data) so if you really need it, I could make a simple compression prog. Only catch is it may take a few days.

Yeah thats the format I'm talking about the one viewable in ffV7. Dude that would be awesome if you could make a compression program what files would you be able to compress from? we are using a range of formats Milkshape, 3DS max etc but we can always decode them right? So we would be able to compress back to LZs so we could finally have psx model mods? This is something we are serious about doing and i thought i hit the jackpot when i found bitturn but it didn't write back to lzs so we have no way of inserting them back into the game.
« Last Edit: 2009-03-03 01:30:52 by ff7rules »

NFITC1

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #3 on: 2009-03-03 12:19:53 »
As far as I can tell, file type is unimportant. I could write a simple compression/decompression prog that will take any file, de-LZS to any file, then LZS back to any file. Can you email me an example file and it's LZSed source (one compressed one decompressed) so I can experiment with?
Email addy in profile.

hotdog963al

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #4 on: 2009-03-03 12:57:57 »
ff7rules is using Biturn to convert 3D models in LZS files to workable formats (3DS etc), then editing them and wanting to get those files stuffed back in the game. Surely if you create an LZS compresser/decompressor the 3DS files are still going to have to be reverse-converted back to the original 3D format regardless of LZS compression.

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #5 on: 2009-03-03 13:30:52 »
Are you planning to make new models for the PSX version? Because if you are, you might run into trouble with file sizes, since better models almost always mean more kilobytes.

ff7rules

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #6 on: 2009-03-03 13:44:37 »
Are you planning to make new models for the PSX version? Because if you are, you might run into trouble with file sizes, since better models almost always mean more kilobytes.

Thats our ultimate goal yeah and file sizes will be a buttercup but if we make them smaller cdmage should padd it.

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #7 on: 2009-03-03 13:47:56 »
But how can the new, high quality models be made smaller than the original, low quality models? I'm no expert on compression, but I imagine that will be very hard to do...

ff7rules

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #8 on: 2009-03-03 13:54:46 »
But how can the new, high quality models be made smaller than the original, low quality models? I'm no expert on compression, but I imagine that will be very hard to do...

They won't be high quailty they will be really low this is more a test than anything. If that works we work from there. Also i don't think the PSX version could handle hi res models all the time it would LAG like mad.

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #9 on: 2009-03-03 14:02:23 »
Also i don't think the PSX version could handle hi res models all the time it would LAG like mad.

Is that a problem with the game or with the PSX itself (so it wouldn't come up when playing on an emulator/PS2/PS3)? Forgive me if that question sounds a little noobish.

ff7rules

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #10 on: 2009-03-03 14:13:51 »
Also i don't think the PSX version could handle hi res models all the time it would LAG like mad.

Is that a problem with the game or with the PSX itself (so it wouldn't come up when playing on an emulator/PS2/PS3)? Forgive me if that question sounds a little noobish.

Ill be honest im not sure but PSX definetly has its limits as to what it can do, BUT ff8s and 9s models look ALOT better than ff7s so maybe? Who knows if its not the game that limits the graphics but i think it will be. Its not like pc. PC is like depending on your computer specs while psx must have a set limit so will have to see how far we can push it. I know this is getting WAY ahead of myself but i would love it if we could have some ff8 and 9 graphics in there like summons etc. This will happen in the pc version before it happens in the psx version though  :lol:

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #11 on: 2009-03-03 14:49:17 »
Obviously the basic PSX didn't change between the time VII was made and the time IX was made, but what developers could do with it certainly did; Square started on VII in the very early days of the PSX (1994, I believe). By the time they started on IX they understood the workings of the PSX better and could do more things with it.

ff7rules

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #12 on: 2009-03-03 14:54:12 »
Obviously the basic PSX didn't change between the time VII was made and the time IX was made, but what developers could do with it certainly did; Square started on VII in the very early days of the PSX (1994, I believe). By the time they started on IX they understood the workings of the PSX better and could do more things with it.

So its possible they didn't do all they could with it graphics wise. Since Hi res clouds in the game and it could handle that, maybe all hi res models is possible if it wasn't for the damn file sizes.

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #13 on: 2009-03-03 15:00:32 »
This really isn't my area of expertise! I'm just repeating what I've heard from people that sounded like they knew what they were talking about.  :-P

ff7rules

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #14 on: 2009-03-03 15:12:43 »
This really isn't my area of expertise! I'm just repeating what I've heard from people that sounded like they knew what they were talking about.  :-P

Me neither man I'm just learning, i did a few skins for Jedi academy awhile ago the real modeller is currently making a psp game. I don't know what will and won't work.
« Last Edit: 2009-03-03 15:19:45 by ff7rules »

NFITC1

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #15 on: 2009-03-03 16:36:14 »
Dang. I'm close on the compression, but about half the reference addresses are wrong. That's really weird.

ff7rules

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #16 on: 2009-03-03 16:55:45 »
Dang. I'm close on the compression, but about half the reference addresses are wrong. That's really weird.

Could be something to do with the file i sent? ill send another if you want?

NFITC1

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #17 on: 2009-03-03 18:00:21 »
No. It's nothing to do with your file. I just have to modify the method I made for WM. The address generation is a little different. I didn't have to account for some things that I will now. It's close, but it needs a little teeth yanking.

ff7rules

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #18 on: 2009-03-03 18:46:16 »
Ok man just checking if you need anything just let us know.

hotdog963al

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #19 on: 2009-03-04 11:40:54 »
Why presume high quality model mods?  :-)
Can keep it low and still do some pretty cool stuff! (Monster modding!!)

ff7rules

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #20 on: 2009-03-04 13:24:32 »
Why presume high quality model mods?  :-)
Can keep it low and still do some pretty cool stuff! (Monster modding!!)

Yeah but remember they have to  have same animations and everything and because of file sizes there isn't much we can change :(

hotdog963al

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #21 on: 2009-03-04 14:17:02 »
Well you could simplify a complex one, and still make it interesting.......

ff7rules

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #22 on: 2009-03-04 14:28:59 »
Well you could simplify a complex one, and still make it interesting.......

Maybe, That data before was the battle formations my bad  :lol: I will keep looking though!
« Last Edit: 2009-03-04 14:48:32 by ff7rules »

kohan69

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #23 on: 2009-03-04 20:04:41 »
So the goal is to improve model poly count, while keeping it the same size to avoid addressing issues?

Wouldn't it be easier to debug the game with ePSXe and find out the memory codes for in-battle and world models and replace world models with in-battle ones using 'gameshark' ?

ff7rules

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #24 on: 2009-03-04 22:29:31 »
So the goal is to improve model poly count, while keeping it the same size to avoid addressing issues?

Wouldn't it be easier to debug the game with ePSXe and find out the memory codes for in-battle and world models and replace world models with in-battle ones using 'gameshark' ?

That sounds easy? Im pretty sure gameshark can't do that afterall its only hex editing.