Author Topic: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new  (Read 20731 times)

BlitzNCS

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #25 on: 2009-03-04 23:23:49 »
im pretty sure, and this may not be the case, but im sure battle models use a different compression method to Field ones. and even if they didn't, The Battle ones would be WAY too large for the field, and the difference in filesize would surely crash the game.

NFITC1

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #26 on: 2009-03-06 21:52:32 »
I'm beginning to think that the LZS compression method on the wiki is incomplete. It works for compressing the first 4K bytes with no problem, but when it gets larger than that it gets strange. After position 4406 in that file you gave me, the compressed reference doesn't make sense. (it's byte 0xBB0 in Cloud.lzs). That byte corresponds to position 4406 in Cloud.DEC, but the decoded address points to 0xEEF which is neither the first, nor closest, match that the compression should reference. It does match, but I can't tell why it's using that address. Same thing happens later too.

It's going to take a little longer. :(

kohan69

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #27 on: 2009-03-07 07:10:15 »
When I was playing around with it, nearly a year ago  :-o
i found all models use same compression, but could not be edited due to game reading disc address instead of directories.

But did anyone try to the demo?
Since the FF7 demo came on over 3 different disks, it could be entirely directory based.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

NFITC1

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #28 on: 2009-03-09 14:45:15 »
I think I know why my method isn't working. Basically, I could be compressing over bytes that have a better match. That doesn't make much sense so here goes:

I have a byte-series at the point where I'm compressing:

Code: [Select]
05 21 95 A5 4B FF 00 32 43 85 AB CD EF
and somewhere in the file is the following:

Code: [Select]
05 21 95
However, somewhere else in the file is

Code: [Select]
21 95 A5 4B FF 00
So my compressed code turns into:

Code: [Select]
FC XX X0 XX X1 32 43 85 AB CD EF
So the game's code compresses it like this:

Code: [Select]
FD 05 XX X3 32 43 85 AB CD EF
So it got compressed that block into fewer bytes than I did.

So I got to tackle this differently later today, but that means it's going to take longer to compress. Decompression is still real-time. By the time you've read the compressed file to the end you can have the original file.
« Last Edit: 2009-03-09 14:49:12 by NFITC1 »

ff7rules

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #29 on: 2009-03-09 17:16:04 »
Awesome man nice work! So itll compress back to its orginal file once you figure all this  out?

NFITC1

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #30 on: 2009-03-09 17:31:03 »
Awesome man nice work! So itll compress back to its orginal file once you figure all this  out?

beats me :D I'm just screwing around with it right now. ATM, I compressed the file TOO much and everything's wrong. XD

ff7rules

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #31 on: 2009-03-09 17:39:09 »
Awesome man nice work! So itll compress back to its orginal file once you figure all this  out?

beats me :D I'm just screwing around with it right now. ATM, I compressed the file TOO much and everything's wrong. XD

Ok cool, it sounds like your enjoying yourself while doing it lol.

NFITC1

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #32 on: 2009-03-10 13:44:49 »
When I was playing around with it, nearly a year ago  :-o
i found all models use same compression, but could not be edited due to game reading disc address instead of directories.
...
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Sorry. I wasn't ignoring you, but now I know what you're saying. You are correct. It is, for the most part, physical disc address referencing. However, it only points to the start of the file. The goal is to take the compressed file, uncompress it, edit it, then re-compress it to be smaller than or equal to the size of the original compressed file, then inject it back into the disc image. This is a working method and has been done with other files that are accessed in this way.
The trick is that the file that the compressed file begins by telling the loading process its own file length so it's not dependent on the FAT to tell how big the file is. So long as it doesn't overwrite the next physical file it can be safely injected.

ff7rules

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #33 on: 2009-03-10 13:52:32 »
When I was playing around with it, nearly a year ago  :-o
i found all models use same compression, but could not be edited due to game reading disc address instead of directories.
...
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Sorry. I wasn't ignoring you, but now I know what you're saying. You are correct. It is, for the most part, physical disc address referencing. However, it only points to the start of the file. The goal is to take the compressed file, uncompress it, edit it, then re-compress it to be smaller than or equal to the size of the original compressed file, then inject it back into the disc image. This is a working method and has been done with other files that are accessed in this way.
The trick is that the file that the compressed file begins by telling the loading process its own file length so it's not dependent on the FAT to tell how big the file is. So long as it doesn't overwrite the next physical file it can be safely injected.

Sounds about right lol, if it reads the same start of the adrdress since it only points to that the game will think its the same file even though it has  been edited? It needs to be compressed to the length only at the start of the point? if so thenit might be possible to edit the battle models after all but only small things like hair changes and attire changes nothing drastic as file size is limited. I changed the Cloud in the game with the one in the demo and it didn't crash or hang he was just invisible.

NFITC1

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #34 on: 2009-03-10 20:42:04 »
I changed the Cloud in the game with the one in the demo and it didn't crash or hang he was just invisible.

Weird... Maybe the models are different? Probably referencing textures that aren't there or labeled something else

LZS Update:
I am very close. My compressed file is 625 bytes (0.94%) larger than the one you gave me (I'm using a two-pass comparison and making some things smaller). That's a compression ratio of 31.56% instead of 32.2%. This is probably small enough for this particular file (they'll each take 33 2K blocks), but for files that are on the edge of their blocks that's insufficient. I'm still working on it so don't fret.

ff7rules

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #35 on: 2009-03-10 21:43:12 »
I changed the Cloud in the game with the one in the demo and it didn't crash or hang he was just invisible.

Weird... Maybe the models are different? Probably referencing textures that aren't there or labeled something else

Yeah it would be missing alot of animations and file size is alot smaller i just did it really to see if it even loaded the battle and it does. Just thniking if we can get this to work is there a chanceof converting pc models to work with it?

NFITC1

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #36 on: 2009-03-12 13:21:02 »
LZS Update:
I am very close. My compressed file is 625 bytes (0.94%) larger than the one you gave me (I'm using a two-pass comparison and making some things smaller). That's a compression ratio of 31.56% instead of 32.2%. This is probably small enough for this particular file (they'll each take 33 2K blocks), but for files that are on the edge of their blocks that's insufficient. I'm still working on it so don't fret.

Now I believe I have finished this. I emailed it to ff7rules (at least I think I have) about 15 hours ago, but he hasn't gotten back to me about it. Granted, that's hardly enough time for him to reliably check his email and test it. If anyone else would like a go at an LZS compressor/decompressor, send me a PM or email me.

ff7rules

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #37 on: 2009-03-12 16:30:08 »
LZS Update:
I am very close. My compressed file is 625 bytes (0.94%) larger than the one you gave me (I'm using a two-pass comparison and making some things smaller). That's a compression ratio of 31.56% instead of 32.2%. This is probably small enough for this particular file (they'll each take 33 2K blocks), but for files that are on the edge of their blocks that's insufficient. I'm still working on it so don't fret.

Now I believe I have finished this. I emailed it to ff7rules (at least I think I have) about 15 hours ago, but he hasn't gotten back to me about it. Granted, that's hardly enough time for him to reliably check his email and test it. If anyone else would like a go at an LZS compressor/decompressor, send me a PM or email me.

I just got on now and saw the email lol. I haven't been on much have had to train for a boxing match so i haven't had much time i will test it now though and reply with the results thanks again man.

EDIT First 10 minutes of using it everything seems to work  :-) decompression is perfect i haven't tried compression yet though, but yeah everything seems great thanks allot!

EDIT2: WOW it works in game but there is one problem! look at the screenshots to see it



Hes petrify because of stone glare nothing to do with the mod. Speaking of mods i guess you just made one the no weapon mod :D First mod ever for the PSX version its a start ;) Anyway it all works except his victory dance but I'm guessing thats something to do with him not having a weapon to he starts to swing nothing then disappears. BUT what is really promising is again NO crashes no hangs it just loads it.

EDIT3 : AWESOME this really is getting good everything works except his limits but i think if i changed him to Vincent that wouldn't be an issue.

EDIT4: This is really getting to awesome to describe in words so ill let the screenshot do it.

Yep she works but only that stance nothing more.
« Last Edit: 2009-03-12 18:48:39 by ff7rules »

koral

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #38 on: 2009-03-13 00:14:56 »
This is great! :-D
You guys are officially the first successful PSX-FF7-Modders!

ff7rules

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #39 on: 2009-03-13 00:20:18 »
This is great! :-D
You guys are officially the first successful PSX-FF7-Modders!

I wouldn't say we are the first but i think we are definetly getting somewhere just replaced sephiroth with vincent works 100% you could play the whole game with him in battle..... if you disable his limit breaks.

hotdog963al

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #40 on: 2009-03-13 09:31:38 »
Yeah, I can't see the model converting working completely, so custom models are not a possibility just yet.

Here's the problem:
LZS -> FF7 3D -> Generic 3D (for editing) -> FF7 3D -> LZS

ff7rules

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #41 on: 2009-03-13 18:17:26 »
Yeah, I can't see the model converting working completely, so custom models are not a possibility just yet.

Here's the problem:
LZS -> FF7 3D -> Generic 3D (for editing) -> FF7 3D -> LZS

Well maybe in the future if bitturn can display the bones and keep the animation data and write to LZs its possible? and like you just said maybe a Pc to PSX model converter i don't know the limits of the psx though.
« Last Edit: 2009-03-13 18:45:28 by ff7rules »

NameSpoofer

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #42 on: 2009-03-13 20:03:38 »
Is it possible to add new texture files into PSX version? If yes then it is the best way to enhance the models.

FF7 models suck because (except for the eyes and mouth) they are vertex colored instead of being textured. Further, these textures of the eyes and mouth are in very low resolution 128x128 or even smaller. Parasite Eve and FF8 models are way better because they are well textured.

A 8-bit color 512x512 texture file only has 257KB. So if you only do 9 primary characters and sephiroth you only need to add 10 textures which are in total only 2 to 3 MB.

From what I read in this topic I have to say that the PC version is far more friendly to mod than the PSX version. It can eat almost everything ( max cap at 2 to the power of 64 polygons ) and with high resolution patch I can even throw in textures with resolution like 1024x1024. My char.lgp is now like 90 MB ( the original is 47 MB ) and the game still runs perfect.

hotdog963al

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #43 on: 2009-03-13 20:28:15 »
You can't increase the file-size of the files, so improving textures are a no-go really.
I'd have thought adding textures could also slow down the game quite significantly too...

NFITC1

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #44 on: 2009-03-13 21:53:23 »
FF7 models suck because (except for the eyes and mouth) they are vertex colored instead of being textured. Further, these textures of the eyes and mouth are in very low resolution 128x128 or even smaller. Parasite Eve and FF8 models are way better because they are well textured.

Because of this, FFVII could very well have been Squaresoft's swansong. This is what they get for being lazy and not wanting to upgrade their models when they knew it was going to the PSX.

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #45 on: 2009-03-13 22:05:04 »
Because of this, FFVII could very well have been Squaresoft's swansong. This is what they get for being lazy and not wanting to upgrade their models when they knew it was going to the PSX.

Do you mean that they made the models when it was still being planned for the N64? If that's the case I can understand why they would have to stay away from something that takes up so much storage space.

NFITC1

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #46 on: 2009-03-14 02:54:44 »
Because of this, FFVII could very well have been Squaresoft's swansong. This is what they get for being lazy and not wanting to upgrade their models when they knew it was going to the PSX.

Do you mean that they made the models when it was still being planned for the N64? If that's the case I can understand why they would have to stay away from something that takes up so much storage space.

Yup. I have no reason to doubt this. It makes complete sense too, seeing as how FFVIII and IX looked infinitely better and VII looks like something designed to work on the N64.

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #47 on: 2009-03-14 15:05:59 »
I never knew the cartridges had a limit of 32MB; I always thought it was 64MB. In any case, far too small.

NFITC1

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #48 on: 2009-03-14 16:34:23 »
I never knew the cartridges had a limit of 32MB; I always thought it was 64MB. In any case, far too small.

Initially it was 32MB. Some of the later ones (Resident Evil, Pokemon Stadium 2, Paper Mario, etc.) have exceptions with larger or multiple chips in them. With the technology now, though, the entireties of FFVII, VIII, AND IX could be put in a single (8GB) cartridge. Of course, then the media itself would still cost >$10, not to mention the licenses for each individual game.

kohan69

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Re: Final Fantasy VII PSX Replacing models creating new
« Reply #49 on: 2009-03-15 21:09:41 »
When I was playing around with it, nearly a year ago  :-o
i found all models use same compression, but could not be edited due to game reading disc address instead of directories.
...
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Sorry. I wasn't ignoring you, but now I know what you're saying. You are correct. It is, for the most part, physical disc address referencing. However, it only points to the start of the file. The goal is to take the compressed file, uncompress it, edit it, then re-compress it to be smaller than or equal to the size of the original compressed file, then inject it back into the disc image. This is a working method and has been done with other files that are accessed in this way.
The trick is that the file that the compressed file begins by telling the loading process its own file length so it's not dependent on the FAT to tell how big the file is. So long as it doesn't overwrite the next physical file it can be safely injected.

Why go through the hassle of attempting to fit a highres file into the same amount of space rather than just append the hi-res models unto the end of the disk, and redirect the disc addresses via gameshark?  :?