Author Topic: I AM ABSOLUTELY GUTTED! (Read 21914 times)

Cupcake · « **Reply #25 on:** 2011-05-07 07:45:44 »

Quote from: Jaitsu Strife on 2011-05-06 21:07:28

i don't believe in nuking anything because that would kill innocent civilians

I believe in nuking everything, everywhere, because that would kill all humans, which would actually be a pretty good move on our part.

Jaitsu · « **Reply #26 on:** 2011-05-07 15:22:26 »

Quote from: Cupcake on 2011-05-07 07:45:44

I believe in nuking everything, everywhere, because that would kill all humans, which would actually be a pretty good move on our part.

thank god your not in control of any countries with nukes

Kudistos Megistos · « **Reply #27 on:** 2011-05-07 17:37:40 »

Quote from: Cupcake on 2011-05-07 07:45:44

I believe in nuking everything, everywhere, because that would kill all humans, which would actually be a pretty good move on our part.

You're trying too hard.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #28 on:** 2011-05-07 19:33:53 »

You don't need to kill all humans, we are going to die out one day anyway. No matter what we do., So really everything is rather pointless.

Jaitsu · « **Reply #29 on:** 2011-05-07 21:30:02 »

just... wow, everyones so "woe is us".

humanity has some bad sides sure, but we got a good side too.

Cupcake · « **Reply #30 on:** 2011-05-08 03:35:36 »

Quote from: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-05-07 17:37:40

You're trying too hard.

No, you can ask most of the IRC folk, I generally do legitimately express this opinion.

yarLson · « **Reply #31 on:** 2011-05-08 19:23:27 »

Quote from: Obesebear on 2011-05-04 02:20:54

We can't torture people anyways

you might want to read the Patriot Act, it specifically states that anyone who is considered to be a "terrorist" against america is stripped of all constitutional rights including those that protect against the use of torture. Also you might want to take a look at what we did at guantanamo right after the patriot act was signed in.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #32 on:** 2011-05-08 21:40:05 »

yarlson. that torture happens in places where the law is limbo and it is not a harsh type of torture under the normal definition. It is hardly having your eyes poked out or toes cut off. Some would have you believe placing bacon in a Muslim cell is torture.

It comes down to hypothetics again... if someone knows where and when a deadly attack is going to take place that will kill thousands, do you torture him for the answer? Bluntly. yes you do if you have any sanity.

Bosola · « **Reply #33 on:** 2011-05-09 13:25:16 »

Except that

a) torture doesn't work, and even innocent people usually submit and,
b) terrorists don't leave key info with single individuals precisely because they can be coerced / bought off

DLPB_ · « **Reply #34 on:** 2011-05-09 13:33:26 »

Torture does work, or at least is has done. Not that I agree with the principle except in extreme circumstances.

yarLson · « **Reply #35 on:** 2011-05-09 15:22:48 »

i think it can work, but it can also get them to spew a bunch of lies and bs just to get you to stop

xLostWingx · « **Reply #36 on:** 2011-05-09 16:40:54 »

A discussion on torture...this could be really good, or could get really bad.

Anyone see the movie "Unthinkable"? I mean, torture certainly can work with many people. And it will almost certainly fail with other people. However, if you systematize the process, I'm certain that person-specific torture would work in most cases. Construct a psychological profile of the torturee, determine what they could or could not know and how valuable that information is, develop a specific procedure for that person, and don't kill them when it is over, keep them to torture in the future if the information isn't good.

NOT THAT I THINK TORTURE IS GOOD, but I do believe that in many situations the ends justifies the means. Though torture truely is a disgusting and cruel act.

Bosola · « **Reply #37 on:** 2011-05-09 16:44:56 »

Quote from: DLPB on 2011-05-09 13:33:26

Torture does work, or at least is has done.

No, it hasn't. Torture people and they will tell you exactly what you want to here. Not the truth.

This wastes time and makes the whole exercise pointless.

It also assumes that a competent terror cell would ever give an individual much key information. In practice, they would not, because an agent can be

a) tortured
b) bribed
c) a spy
d) accidentally killed

I don't know how al-Queda operate, but I imagine very few individuals could be captured who ever actually 'know' what is going on. An operative might know that something contains explosives, and a colleague might know that the something is going to place X, but no individual would know that an explosive is going to X except their handler.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #38 on:** 2011-05-09 17:04:41 »

So you are saying at no point through history has torture ever worked or saved lives? That simply isn't logical. It probably works in many cases and has saved lives. I don't know the figure of success and I suspect nor do you.

Mako · « **Reply #39 on:** 2011-05-09 19:36:48 »

Quote from: DLPB on 2011-05-09 17:04:41

So you are saying at no point through history has torture ever worked or saved lives? That simply isn't logical. It probably works in many cases and has saved lives. I don't know the figure of success and I suspect nor do you.

Not in today's modern world. It may have worked back in olden times but not now

DLBP you suffer from what I like to call "what once works always works" syndrome. Like your "gay" argument, it is very flawed. We live in the age of youtube and cheeseburgers. Bosola is correct torture does not work.

Kudistos Megistos · « **Reply #40 on:** 2011-05-09 20:24:15 »

Quote from: Bosola on 2011-05-09 16:44:56

Torture people and they will tell you exactly what you want to here.

This shows us how much an English degree from Cambridge is worth.

Mako · « **Reply #41 on:** 2011-05-09 20:30:38 »

Holy crow! Bosola has an English degree from Cambridge? @_@ That is astounding! Though that does not mean he is devoid of making mistakes

Kudistos Megistos · « **Reply #42 on:** 2011-05-09 20:37:50 »

Quote from: Mako on 2011-05-09 20:30:38

Holy crow! Bosola has an English degree from Cambridge? @_@ That is astounding! Though that does not mean he is devoid of making mistakes

He does. I have a Classics degree from Oxford, so there's a little bit of friendly (lolno) rivalry.

Mako · « **Reply #43 on:** 2011-05-09 20:52:01 »

I am ashamed of my accomplishments now

I have various medical degrees but nothing that exciting.

Jaitsu · « **Reply #44 on:** 2011-05-09 21:12:24 »

i'm failing in highschool -.-

Kudistos Megistos · « **Reply #45 on:** 2011-05-09 21:15:59 »

Quote from: Mako on 2011-05-09 20:52:01

I am ashamed of my accomplishments now I have various medical degrees but nothing that exciting.

At least you can comfort yourself with the fact that you're doing better than Jaitsu.

Quote from: Jaitsu Strife on 2011-05-09 21:12:24

i'm failing in highschool -.-

There, there. At least you can comfort yourself with the fact that you're doing better than Hermoor.

BTW, is anyone else having trouble posting? I've noticed a weird problem with the page becoming unresponsive when I post. I can copy/paste what I've written and post using a different tab, but it's an inconvenience.

On the other hand, I'm using a bleeding edge version of Chromium, so my browser might be derping.

Mako · « **Reply #46 on:** 2011-05-09 21:22:29 »

Quote

On the other hand, I'm using a bleeding edge version of Chromium, so my browser might be derping.

Same with fire fox 4! Dunno doesn't sound like a SMF problem.

Jaitsu · « **Reply #47 on:** 2011-05-09 21:23:56 »

Quote from: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-05-09 21:15:59

At least you can comfort yourself with the fact that you're doing better than Jaitsu.

There, there. At least you can comfort yourself with the fact that you're doing better than Hermoor.

BTW, is anyone else having trouble posting? I've noticed a weird problem with the page becoming unresponsive when I post. I can copy/paste what I've written and post using a different tab, but it's an inconvenience.

On the other hand, I'm using a bleeding edge version of Chromium, so my browser might be derping.

aww, that gives me such a fuzzy feeling, being smarter then... well, whatever the hell he is.

and yeah, i am to, its as if the entire site just slowed down to a crawl

DLPB_ · « **Reply #48 on:** 2011-05-09 21:25:40 »

Quote

Not in today's modern world.

When the torture takes place does not alter anything. If I knew a terrorist had planted a bomb, I'd be quite happy to torture that man and I am willing to bet that many times you would get good information. It is hypothetical. I am not condoning torture, I am saying there is an argument for it especially in extreme circumstances.

Bosola's argument is torture never works, and I find that an amazing argument which has no proof at all. Logic would suggest that it would work, even if a minority of times. If I was tortured as to a crime I had done, I would spill the beans long before the torture. Just the threat of it would work.

So, I know myself how accurate torture would be with me. I would sing like Tweetie pie. But in any case, for 99.9% of cases, torture should never be an option. I am not saying it should.

Saying torture does not work, sounds nice, but there is not 1 shred of proof of that.

Mako · « **Reply #49 on:** 2011-05-09 21:59:42 »

Quote

But in any case, for 99.9% of cases, torture should never be an option.

So (by your own logic) if torture for over 99% of the cases should not be used, then why debate the issue right? ^_^

Also the sheer amount of money, being sent on wild goose chases cause the terrorist gave bad info should make it worth it.

EDIT: I think your Logic O' Meter is busted