[FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods and Modding Framework-The Reunion [R06f]

[Salk]

Eh the last piece under construction is very, very unclear.

The one above though is a remarkable improvement over the former translation. Much smoother.

Soon you should also be ready with all the SFX!

[DLPB_]

It's simple but hard to put together. The planet can't communicate with the Ancients if there is no Lifestream.  Since Midgar has been sucked dry of Mako - the planet has basically died there. Communicating with it has become harder. The Ancients unlock the planet and reach their Promised Land by talking to the planet.  I am not sure what that actually means - clearly the Ancients / Cetra have a special bond with the planet that is never expanded on.  Aerith can only hear the planet in the church - because that's holy ground presumably.  And that's also why the flowers grow there.  Ifalna explained to Aerith as a child that she would need to leave Midgar if she was to find her Promised Land.  It should be noted that the Promised Land isn't one place.  It's heavily implied - from what I can see - that they find their own "Promised Land".  The Elders of Cosmo Canyon believe that the Promised Land is simply some sort of metaphor for the end of a struggle.  Shin-Ra believe (very likely incorrectly) that it is one place - and that place is at the crater where Sephiroth and the Weapons were, surrounded in Mako.

But whatever.  Ifalna told Aerith (at some point while she was still alive) that for her to unlock the planet and find her Promised Land, she had to talk to the planet - and this could no longer be done from Midgar.

The "noise" I am assuming is all the voices of those recently departed - part of the Lifestream.

Luksy will have to do some of his Ultimania research. He's the Elder.    Charlie Beer should be along shortly too.

[shikun]

you've got it all right, and we're on the right track with the adjustments.   

But PLEASE differentiate Ifalna (mother) and Elmina (mum). The japanese is very clear with this, using Kaasan 母さん for Ifalna and Mama ママ for Elmina.

[DLPB_]

There is no way to differentiate in English.  Mum is Mum... They are all synonyms with completely equal weight. The Japanese looks dramatically different (they've used the English word for Elmina - and used 2 different alphabets) - but an English speaking person simply isn't going to notice a difference between "mother" and "mum". No player is going to get it even if I consistently use one or the other.  But it's not needed anyway, since she makes it clear here that she's talking about her real mother.  I think in real life, people will call both their real and adopted mother "Mum/Mom". It seems a bit silly to make an exception here - especially when the dialogue absolutely makes it clear who she is talking about.

The most I can do is to always use "my mum" when referring to Ifalna.  Not just "Mum said".  If I go the Japanese route here, we'd end up with something like "Mum" and "Mama" or "Mum" and "Ma"  - which looks silly and still doesn't get close to the difference the Japanese has.

[KnifeTheSky77]

"Mum" is a very British way of saying it as opposed to Mom in Amurica. "Mahh" would make sense if FFVII took place in Boston -- no offense to Boston but please don't

I guess my point is that not all English is created equal.

[DLPB_]

I know that. The American option changes all Mum to Mom, but the points I made are the same.  The Japanese above uses a loanword to differentiate - and even 2 different Japanese alphabets.  It would be like me using Japanese "Mom" for Ifalna and English "Mom" for Elmina. That's pretty much what the Japanese writers have done - though "Mama" is obviously well known over there.  Tifa calls her father "Papa" in literal English.

What I am saying is this is something that cannot be localized and doesn't need to be. In the same way, I haven't used "Papa" for Tifa's father, because it sounds ridiculous to me that a teenage girl would call her dad "Papa". Sometimes the literal doesn't work at all.

[DLPB_]

All SFX are now done. I have a lot of checking to do - even created my own quick program to check loops and so on.  But it's looking good!

Total size 87 MB.

[Kaldarasha]

And probably sounds better!

I'm curios regarding the mother vs mum thing. In German Mutter (mother) is more formal you use it with emotional distant, while Mama (mum, though I think some do use 'Mam', but this are mostly teenager) is much closer and personal to yourself. Hmm, it's interesting that it doesn't much matter in English.

[DLPB_]

No probably about it. 

Where I live, we'd pretty much never use " mother" to our mothers.  We'd say "Hi, Mum".  But when saying "What is your mum called"  we may substitute mum for mother.  Mother is therefore slightly more formal.  It's also the case that mother is 2 syllables, and that this is often a deciding factor in what words a person will use. We often abbreviate names like mine (Daniel) to "Dan" - for that very reason.

[Ver Greeneyes]

Regarding mama/papa, I've seen that used in English before, but mostly by teenage girls. Tifa might fit the bill assuming she only really toughened up (mentally) after the Niflheim affair. But maybe only in American English - the only form I can imagine with any kind of British accent would be hopelessly posh. In particular, the emphasis would go on the first syllable in AmE but on the 2nd syllable in BrE, giving it that posh twang. In AmE it's like a less childish form of "daddy"/"mommy" as far as I can tell, but still a pretty feminine thing to say.

[August]

"Mother" can be used intimately and still sound natural - an in-media example I can recall off the top of my head is the character of Littlefoot in The Land Before Time - likewise I've witnessed grown women (or even men) call their fathers "papa" or "daddy" without it sounding absurd. Whether it feels right in dialogue could depend on a number of things, but for what it's worth I wasn't bothered by the usage of either terms in the original script.

[shikun]

I noticed another reference while playing, which I can't correct in the proof check because it's in a shop menu:

ポロフの実   Porov/Porofu Nut      [Possibly another name for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilaf]   Polov Nut
パラムの実   Pram/Param Nut      [Possibly Plum in Maori]   Paramu Nut

(^ from the database)

these are much more likely to be references to Porom (ポロム) and Palom (パロム) from Final Fantasy 4, just with one kana each changed (Porom:ム[mu] -> フ[fu]; and Palom: ロ[ro/lo] -> ラ[ra/la]). So, it should Porof Nut ("m" to "f") and Palam Nut ("lo" to "la").

[DLPB_]

these are much more likely to be references to Porom (ポロム) and Palom (パロム) from Final Fantasy 4

Yes, but are the ff4 words correct too?  Wtf is porom and palom anyway?

[Covarr]

Porom and Palom are characters in FF4, sister and brother. These nuts could be a reference to those characters, but I'm not sure to what end. Nothing about the properties of the nuts, either physical or functional, has anything at all to do with those characters.

[DLPB_]

It very likely will be the case though (numerous others don't have anything to do with nuts or greens).  Gysahl was named after a town, after all.  But what I mean is... is porom and palom correct.  Or was FF4 mistranslated also.  What is the etymology of these names? I mean "paLom" and "poRom" already looks like a mistake to me. Is there any verified spelling - why are they spelled like this?

Porom may be named after Porrima. Porrima is a binary star system in the Virgo constellation.

Is what the Wiki gives. Sounds like a stretch to me.

[shikun]

In Japanese, they are Paromu and Poromu, only one kana difference. The translators of FF4 decided to make them Palom and Porom for further differentiation (because of the R/L similarity in Japanese, which I hope you all know about by now...) . I can imagine there isn't necessarily a etymology, they're just cutesy names for cutesy 5-year old twins. Sometimes they just make names up. Quistis, Selphie and Zell, for example, don't mean a damn thing.

Also references that are purely name-wise aren't that unusual in the FF series. Just look at this silliness:  http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Palumpolum

[DLPB_]

Yeah - the original localization of ff4 has decided to use l and r.  I think that's stupid, since the only thing that needed changing was the o and a. They should have called them palom polom or parom porom.   The L for both was probably best here - but as they are proper nouns, leaving them with R is fine.

I will amend the database.  I think it's highly likely that you are correct.

[JBedford128]

The FFIV characters have had their names written in Latin text in Japanese publications that do not match the English localisation, such as the 25th Anniversary Memorial Ultimania and the Final Fantasy Art Museum cards (I'm sure there are older ones but I don't know what they are).

Honestly I'm not sure they're entirely reliable to the original author intention, but since they don't just go with the English localisation (e.g. Cain, Tella, Gilbart, Golbeza) they're a little more reliable: Palom and Porom are written "Palom" and "Porom" in these.

[DLPB_]

Well, that's better than nothing JBedford.  It's at least some evidence that they wanted an L and R - and it wasn't just a localization choice...  So I'll use that with amendment - as they've done in FF7.

[mystery_editor]

I've been having the Mother/Mama/Mum discussion with a few friends, and uhh...
Let's say the arguments shave been surprisingly heated?

Few nice points that came out of it:
 - Aerith
     - Closest equivalent in English that we could come up with would be "birth mother/mum/mom" or "biological mother/mum/mom" for Ifalna
     - General understanding that this may break up conversation in a weird way, but it's how a number of my friends refer to their adoptive parents
 - Tifa
     - The consensus is that Papa would be not unheard of, but potentiality a little weird at the age Tifa is
     - (As an aside, listening to people in their 30's refer to their parents as "Daddy" and "Mummy" is unsettling at best)

[citan]

Hello

I just wonder when R06 might come out?

[DLPB_]

When it's done.

[Jaki]

.

[Liquid_Vegeta]

     - Closest equivalent in English that we could come up with would be "birth mother/mum/mom" or "biological mother/mum/mom" for Ifalna
     - General understanding that this may break up conversation in a weird way, but it's how a number of my friends refer to their adoptive parents

I was literally about to make a post suggesting 'birth mother' but you beat me to it.

+1 for Birthmother and Mum/Mom

[August]

I've been interested in upgrading to R05c from R03b, but after several years have forgotten some of the process involved. I had converted the game from Steam to the PC-98 version and have a separate directory for each. Is it simply a matter of pointing the R05c installer to the PC-98 directory and it will correctly install over the old? Or is it necessary to uninstall R03b first now that mods like Menu Overhaul have substantially changed?
Furthermore, is it possible to copy the entire PC-98 directory elsewhere and thus have multiple installations to play, like is already possible between my Steam and PC-98 installation?

On mother nomenclature: the game's present usage of "real mother" in both localizations is acceptable and has been used in other popular media without complaint (eg Return of the Jedi's Luke: "Do you remember your mother? Your real mother?"), along with sounding arguably better to the ear. It seems people have become more sensitive to language over time, but in that case even "birth mother" has been regarded as problematic. I'd say leave "real mother" as it is; in any case, the game says more than enough about Aerith's mothers to let the player know she loves them both.