Why are British people so stupid on the Internet?

[Kudistos Megistos]

Whenever I see someone asking a retarded question in the kind of horrendously broken English that marks the writer not as a foreigner, but as an appallingly poorly educated native speaker, I cringe for two reasons. The first is the abuse of my mother tongue that I am desperately trying to decipher, and the second is my knowledge that, when I have seen such abuses in the past, the writer has nearly always turned out to be British.

I am quite confused as to why this is. Why are British people so disproportionally illiterate online? Why are so many British people unable to write in standard English? Why do so many British people think that it is acceptable to write in their local dialect when addressing an international audience? Even the dimmest Americans, even those who can not find Canada on the map and think the Earth was created last Thursday by Jesus riding on a dinosaur, are able to understand the difference between spoken and written English and are able to understand that something that looks like a phonetic transcription of people speaking in their local accent might be hard for people not from their hometown to read.

I remember an incident a while ago (I think it was in the thread in which I exposed Hermoor's lack of knowledge of the Old Norse language) in which Prince Lex gave an example of broad Scots and Hellbringer said that he had once argued with a person who wrote like that. This did not surprise me at all. How many times have I facepalmed whilst reading someone fighting on the Internet in Scouse or Mancunian or Jafaikan*? Too many! This definitely is an almost uniquely British phenomenon. I hardly ever see Johnny Foreigner writing in this way; non-native speakers will do their best to write something as correct as possible and Americans and other native speakers will nearly always use only the most universally understood slang and will make only the more common grammar and spelling errors, except when writing in lolcat speak.

If no-one can explain why this is, then at least share examples of retarded people writing like this.

*WTF is Jafaikan? Watch an Ali G sketch. Or go to Oxford and get accosted by a middle-class, 30-year-old man trying to sell hip-hop CDs.

[Bosola]

I would have thought the answer self-evident. Albanians, Russians and Chinese writers don't use English in informal relations, and rarely encounter it outside the classroom. The only English they know is classroom English, and the only Anglo writing they're accustomed to is in the formal register. They're also less secure about their handling of the language.

Think of writing in French - our priority as English speakers is to simply make French that parses correctly. And the only resources we have are examples of formalized English. We worry about register later - it's hard enough to master the correct use of the prepositional, not three thousand sub-variants of verb formation as well.

[Kudistos Megistos]

Then why is this phenomenon more common amongst British people than other native speakers? I'm sure that there are some Americans and Canadians, Australians etc. who do this, but they seem to be far fewer.

[Bosola]

I'm unconvinced that's especially true.

[Kudistos Megistos]

Really?

Well, it's something I've noticed. There do seem do be a massively disproportionate number of British people doing it.

Actually, I wonder whether it might have something to do with the British class system and the level of pride a lot of people take in their regional accents? If there is an explanation for it, this might be it.

[Bosola]

There are just as many social tensions within the US, Canada and Australia, not least thanks to the more prominent race issue.

[Kudistos Megistos]

But is accent such a strong part of personal identity? From what I've seen, it seems to be a bigger issue in the UK. I've also witnessed first hand the contempt in which "posh" people are held in some areas in the UK; when I was in high school, "posh" people were the most hated outgroup of all; I shudder to think what would happen if I went back there speaking with the accent I've developed since I went to Oxford.

If accent is a part of personal identity and an ingroup marker in the UK in a way that it isn't in other English speaking countries, then it might go some way to explaining why people would shun standard English even when doing so will lead to ridicule and make communication difficult.

[nfitc1]

Even the dimmest Americans, even those who can not find Canada on the map and think the Earth was created last Thursday by Jesus riding on a dinosaur, are able to understand the difference between spoken and written English and are able to understand that something that looks like a phonetic transcription of people speaking in their local accent might be hard for people not from their hometown to read.

Oh no no no no no no no no no, my friend. There are a LARGE number of US-Americans that honestly don't know the difference between speaking, writing, and texting. It's irritating to read or listen to. The majority of them somehow seem to make it into college too. THAT'S scary. Thing is, these US-Americans are too stupid to use the Internet and get murdered when they make mistakes. That's why there are fewer of them. There's the one thing the US is more progressive on than the UK. Gotcha!

There do seem do be a massively disproportionate number of British people doing it.

I have a theory (key word notice!) about this. When you think of a generic human, what do you think of? A male, a female? Most likely (there are exceptions) if you're a male and asked to describe a human you'd describe a male and vice versa. This is just what you know and what impact your life has left on you. You can describe what you know well and you remember things that are familiar. For you, Kudistos, being a UK citizen, you tend to remember UK's offenses because it's something that affects you more closely than a foreigner's offenses. How much do you care about a guy in the US dressed as Darth Vader robs a US bank? Probably not as much as the people that were more affected by it than you. It affected me more than you because I live in the US. It doesn't affect me as much as the people in the state that it happened because I don't live there.

Now you're thinking, "Why am I still reading this? Or "Where is he going with this?" Or perhaps "I hope he'll stop soon." Here goes: You think the majority of infractions occur by British subjects because that's what you're exposed to and it leaves an impression on you. Not to say that you don't read material from the US (maybe exclusively you do, but I doubt it). Your mind probably notices the US citizenry making errors and says "stupid Americans" and moves on. When you encounter a member of the British Commonwealth (specifically the UK) that bludgeons your "mother tongue" upside the head it hits you harder. Because it makes more of an impact you keep a biased count of infractions. When I see horrid English on the Internet I immediately blame the US.

tl;dr: You're probably just noticing your fellow citizens' mistakes more than other native speakers'. Everyone judges their own more harshly than outsiders.

[The Seer of Shadows]

"tl;dr" is unnecessary.  Your posts are always worth reading

I actually think I judge outsiders more than I judge my own.  I've lived in [country shall remain nameless] as an expatriate for a while now and I'm constantly dissing the locals, but hardly ever pass judgment on my good fellow expats.

[Bosola]

But is accent such a strong part of personal identity? From what I've seen, it seems to be a bigger issue in the UK. I've also witnessed first hand the contempt in which "posh" people are held in some areas in the UK; when I was in high school, "posh" people were the most hated outgroup of all; I shudder to think what would happen if I went back there speaking with the accent I've developed since I went to Oxford.

If accent is a part of personal identity and an ingroup marker in the UK in a way that it isn't in other English speaking countries, then it might go some way to explaining why people would shun standard English even when doing so will lead to ridicule and make communication difficult.

Accent only matters in the UK? See: Martha's vineyard experiment, countless US-based sociolinguistic studies.

[nfitc1]

I actually think I judge outsiders more than I judge my own.  I've lived in [country shall remain nameless] as an expatriate for a while now and I'm constantly dissing the locals, but hardly ever pass judgment on my good fellow expats.

Maybe you judge outsiders MORE than your own, but you'd be more harsh on your own about the same thing who "ought to know better by now". They're almost traitors in breaking established conventions and everyone always seems to be harshest on traitors.

[Kudistos Megistos]

But is accent such a strong part of personal identity? From what I've seen, it seems to be a bigger issue in the UK. I've also witnessed first hand the contempt in which "posh" people are held in some areas in the UK; when I was in high school, "posh" people were the most hated outgroup of all; I shudder to think what would happen if I went back there speaking with the accent I've developed since I went to Oxford.

If accent is a part of personal identity and an ingroup marker in the UK in a way that it isn't in other English speaking countries, then it might go some way to explaining why people would shun standard English even when doing so will lead to ridicule and make communication difficult.

Accent only matters in the UK? See: Martha's vineyard experiment, countless US-based sociolinguistic studies.

Cool false dichotomy, bro.

Of course it matters to an extent in the US as well, but does that mean it matters as much as it does here? Race matters in the UK to a certain extent; does that mean it matters as much here as it does in the US? Religion matters in England; does that mean it matters as much as it does in NI?

[Bosola]

The results of sociolinguistic experiments have been the same across various nations: human beings use dialects as markers of identity. This isn't a regional trend. And even if it were, it'd be moot, because Martha's Vineyard is NJ.

You should read the studies - they're quite interesting.

Are we done here?

[Kudistos Megistos]

But are they used to equal extents in all nations? Accent/dialect as a marker of identity is certainly discussed more in British society than it is in American society, no? I haven't heard Americans talk about accents the same way that British people do, and presumably people aren't likely to be as conscious of this phenomenon.

[Cupcake]

There are a LARGE number of US-Americans that honestly don't know the difference between speaking, writing, and texting.

There shouldn't be one.  You should ALWAYS, speak, write, and text, in proper English, to the best of your abilities.  I firmly believe that this disconnect, which makes people believe "It's the internet, it doesn't matter if I use proper grammar here.  You're wrong when you say that it does, in fact, matter."  This then causes an issue with me, when they go to type that and it comes out "its the internet it dont matter.Your rong wen u say that it matters"

This usually leads to me punching someone in the throat.  Especially the whole Your = You're thing that seems to be all the rage right now.

This isn't a regional trend. And even if it were, it'd be moot, because Martha's Vineyard is NJ.

I take offense to that.  I am from NJ.  First big thing, Guidos aren't from NJ, as much as you'd like to think they are, they aren't.  They're from NY, specifically, Long Island.  Not to say we don't have guidos, they're just from down the shore.   That being said, NJ is actually pretty sweet....  Except for the smell

EDIT:

But are they used to equal extents in all nations? Accent/dialect as a marker of identity is certainly discussed more in British society than it is in American society, no? I haven't heard Americans talk about accents the same way that British people do, and presumably people aren't likely to be as conscious of this phenomenon.

Oh you'd be surprised.  Hell, just New Jersey alone has different accents.  There's the Northern NJ accent (which I have, very close to a New York City Accent due to proximity to New York City), then the Central NJ accent, which is hard to describe.  Then the southern NJ accent...  These people can go die, they're who give NJ a bad name.  They also sound like they're from the deep south...  They also call sprinkles for ice cream "jimmies".  I vote we kill those fuckers, who's with me?

[Kudistos Megistos]

This usually leads to me punching someone in the throat.  Especially the whole Your = You're thing that seems to be all the rage right now.

I get really pissed of by people saying "then" when the mean "than". I don't know how people can make that mistake.

For some reason, I only every see it happen that way around; I never see people saying "than" when they mean "then".

[Cupcake]

This usually leads to me punching someone in the throat.  Especially the whole Your = You're thing that seems to be all the rage right now.

I get really pissed of by people saying "then" when the mean "than". I don't know how people can make that mistake.

For some reason, I only every see it happen that way around; I never see people saying "than" when they mean "then".

Just like how people never say "you're" instead of "your"

GRR NERD RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGggg

[Kudistos Megistos]

Hey, at least there's a reason to never say "you're" instead of "your"; the latter is shorter.

The then/than thing really confuses me

[Bosola]

I can't see this going anywhere. I'm unconvinced there's even a phenomenon to discuss.

So, without further ado, Glitter Hitler:

[Cupcake]

Godwin's Law

[Opine]

Really?

Well, it's something I've noticed.

I agree with Bosola. You probably notice it more when it turns out to be a British person because you feel like they're embarrassing you and yours. I certainly notice every time a United-Statesian makes an idiot of themselves. Of course, the rest of the world seems to pick up on that as well...

There shouldn't be one.  You should ALWAYS, speak, write, and text, in proper English, to the best of your abilities.

I disagree only with the texting. Because I am limited to characters, so I have to squeeze a lot in a little.

[Clodus]

Really?

Well, it's something I've noticed.

I agree with Bosola. You probably notice it more when it turns out to be a British person because you feel like they're embarrassing you and yours. I certainly notice every time a United-Statesian makes an idiot of themselves. Of course, the rest of the world seems to pick up on that as well...

There shouldn't be one.  You should ALWAYS, speak, write, and text, in proper English, to the best of your abilities.

I disagree only with the texting. Because I am limited to characters, so I have to squeeze a lot in a little.

You know...  A teacher of mine told me that if you couldn't type/text anything out in full sentences and correct grammar, along with it's correct structures, you were just lazy. I can see why he said that. Besides! It's nice to have someone compliment the way that you write. (Or should I put right? (Pun on the your = you're, GET IT!? GET IT!?))

Either way, it isn't hard to just type/text something out, rather than actually writing it down with a pencil.

[Covarr]

There shouldn't be one.  You should ALWAYS, speak, write, and text, in proper English, to the best of your abilities.  I firmly believe that this disconnect, which makes people believe "It's the internet, it doesn't matter if I use proper grammar here.  You're wrong when you say that it does, in fact, matter."  This then causes an issue with me, when they go to type that and it comes out "its the internet it dont matter.Your rong wen u say that it matters"

Except there is more than just grammar to keep in mind. It's one thing to always speak and write in proper English, but keep in mind that nuances are vastly different. Written English doesn't generally have tone of voice or body language to help it. Also, social standards are very different. Something can be in proper English, but not work in one area or the other easily.

[nfitc1]

There shouldn't be one.  You should ALWAYS, speak, write, and text, in proper English, to the best of your abilities.

You're right. There shouldn't be one. But there is. I think it boils down to people being impatient. I see that a lot in the US.

I disagree only with the texting. Because I am limited to characters, so I have to squeeze a lot in a little.

That's why. Since texting used to be done exclusively on phones with only a 12 digit keypad words were shortened. There's no excuse anymore to keep typing "thx" or "ne1" when you have a fully functional qwerty alphabet layout. Again, time-savers are our opium. I guess sacrificing clarity for efficiency makes some people happy. Then again, it takes just as much time to decipher as it saved in leaving out "extraneous" (try abbreviating THAT texters! assuming you can spell it in the first place, of course) characters. It's not cool or kewl or leet or l33t or 1337 anymore. That's SOOOO 90's. It's just plain wrong.
It doesn't help that English has the most bizarre spelling and pronunciation rules either. There are over 50 vowel sounds spread across 5 letters many of which are to similar to distinguish at a normal conversation speed. [WHY DID WE GET RID OF THE ASH (æ)?!!?!] Most languages use far fewer. Japanese has 5. That's all. Their "spelling bees" are kanji writing contests. That rocks!

See what happens when you get me on the subject? I'm a linguistic purist, dang it! I see it evolving and I don't like it! Kids these days. Makes me feel like I'm running out of life already. I'M NOT EVEN 30 YET!!! 

[Kudistos Megistos]

[WHY DID WE GET RID OF THE ASH (æ)?!!?!]

Indeed. And why did we get rid of thorn and eth? It would be much easier and more logical if th sounds had their own letter. F*cking Normans and their ridiculous concept of the superiority of Latin languages and the Latin alphabet (I'm assuming the Normans were responsible for this faggotry).

Hell, we should have kept the Runic alphabet, which was actually designed for a Germanic language, rather than adopt an alphabet which works perfectly well for Latin but no so well for English.

See what happens when you get me on the subject? I'm a linguistic purist, dang it! I see it evolving and I don't like it! Kids these days. Makes me feel like I'm running out of life already. I'M NOT EVEN 30 YET!!! 

Just be glad you didn't live in the Middle Ages. The pace of linguistic change might have lead you to murder.