Firefox overtakes IE in the developed world

[Kudistos Megistos]

And Windows 7 is one month away from overtaking XP in Britain and Germany.





The prognosis for the US is not good: better buy some anal lube.





How does this make the qhimm forums feel?

[BloodShot]

Good to see firefox overtaking IE, It's a vastly superior browser.

I still use XP - won't be switching for a while.

lol @ linux being always on the bottom.

[yoshi314]

well that's just how it is with linux. it's mostly used outside of desktops.

[Cupcake]

well that's just how it is with linux. it's mostly used outside of desktops.

Sadly, because it really is a great desktop OS.  Unless you're the average user, but even then, if you're an average user, that has at least a slight interest in learning a little bit about computers, it can be a great OS for you (See: my friend Ron, for years, computer illiterate, then I got him Linux, now he's not quite a "power user" but he's well on his way, his only problem is Flash sucking, which is half his computer, and half shitty linux support)

[Cloudef]

Arch Linux, is best Distro/OS ever designed for any serious computer user. Heck I would use it even for Server environment.

[sithlord48]

well that's just how it is with linux. it's mostly used outside of desktops.

yup i run linux on my server, router, cellphone, ps2,wii, ds. and my desktop (do laptops coun't as desktops if not i run it there too)

personally i perfer debian based distros and KDE , thats why im happly a kubuntu user i can get my newest kde crack and use all the deb packages  i need. that being said i run said i don't only run kde for a DE i have lxde on a few machines (and gnome on one, but thats only till i format and replace it w/ lxde)

[Hellbringer616]

I can say i'm glad for Firefox, It's one of my favorite browsers, I'm glad for Win7 too, I love XP. but it needs to die. It's 7 or 8 years old. And it's holding back both the hardware, and gaming markets.

I use Ubuntu on my laptop (probably going to switch to Kubuntu, I just like KDE more) and Kubuntu on my desktop. Though i spend most of my time on Windows on my desktop. As i spend most my time gaming on my desktop

[sithlord48]

Though i spend most of my time on Windows on my desktop. As i spend most my time gaming on my desktop

the only two windows games i play work fine in wine (ff7 and TES:4) althougth i might have to get a console when TES5 comes out depending on how good it works in wine.

[Mako]

Id say this data is HIGHLY inaccurate...On my site (which is nothing to really to go by) IE encompasses 94% of the people  who visit my site...I like Mozilla and all but A LOT of web developers are having problems on various forums around the web. Google Chrome, Opera, heck even Safari is a better browser in my opinion. But who know perhaps 4.0 will bring back there glory.

[Marc]

well that's just how it is with linux. it's mostly used outside of desktops.

yup i run linux on my server, router, cellphone, ps2,wii, ds. and my desktop (do laptops coun't as desktops if not i run it there too)

personally i perfer debian based distros and KDE , thats why im happly a kubuntu user i can get my newest kde crack and use all the deb packages  i need. that being said i run said i don't only run kde for a DE i have lxde on a few machines (and gnome on one, but thats only till i format and replace it w/ lxde)

unfortunately, linux isn't yet ready for business use.

However it's really no fault of the OS itself but OpenOffice is really no option in a business setting against MS Office.  Too many incompatibilities and workarounds for it to be workable on a daily basis.

If it were not for that fact, I would have rolled out linux to all our workstations at the office instead of ending our experiment and just keeping centos on our mailserver.

As far as firefox goes, I have to say I find IE has come a long way since the IE6 days.  I use firefox on linux machines and ie8 on windows machines.  they both work equally well for me and I don't really use addons anyway.

[sithlord48]

unfortunately, linux isn't yet ready for business use.

However it's really no fault of the OS itself but OpenOffice is really no option in a business setting against MS Office.  Too many incompatibilities and workarounds for it to be workable on a daily basis.

If it were not for that fact, I would have rolled out linux to all our workstations at the office instead of ending our experiment and just keeping centos on our mailserver.

im sorry to hear that, for me when i used Openoffice it was just fine. i used it at work in place of Ms office. opening mosty documents from word (idk XP version). Truth be told i tend to use the Koffice stuff more now anyway (kde testing mostly). also i don't need any of that for my job now.
EDIT: open document format is the international standard (ISO)for documents (NOT  microsofts formats.)Don't belive me?

As far as firefox goes, I have to say I find IE has come a long way since the IE6 days.  I use firefox on linux machines and ie8 on windows machines.  they both work equally well for me and I don't really use addons anyway.

for a browser Firefox is much better then the last IE i used (maybe I.E 5). althougth if your worried about security your prolly better off using opera.  i have to agree w/ mako when i cared about what browsers were at my page it was almost all IE visits. (a few firefox and safari users but way way IE users). i stoped this maybe a year ago i don't the browser market has changed that much since then but i could be wrong. i don't even use firefox anymore im a rekonq user (it all comes back to testing for kde u see)

[Kudistos Megistos]

Id say this data is HIGHLY inaccurate...On my site (which is nothing to really to go by) IE encompasses 94% of the people  who visit my site...I like Mozilla and all but A LOT of web developers are having problems on various forums around the web. Google Chrome, Opera, heck even Safari is a better browser in my opinion. But who know perhaps 4.0 will bring back there glory.

There's a lot of variation amongst browser usage statistics. However, I think your site might be an anomaly; there's no way that 94% of internet users are using IE.

im sorry to hear that, for me when i used Openoffice it was just fine. i used it at work in place of Ms office. opening mosty documents from word (idk XP version). Truth be told i tend to use the Koffice stuff more now anyway (kde testing mostly). also i don't need any of that for my job now.

I've always found MS Office to be more usable than Open Office (which isn't as open as it used to be now that Oracle are in charge)

Or rather, I've always found Office 2003 to be more usable. Word 2010 is an absolute f*ckfest; what the hell were MS thinking with that ribbon? Now I have to relearn everything.

EDIT: open document format is the international standard (ISO)for documents (NOT  microsofts formats.)Don't belive me?

.odt might be the official standard, but .doc/.docx is still the de facto standard in business. Now that Oracle are making people pay to open .odt files with Word (the standard word processor in the business world), I can't see .odt making any more progress.

Arch Linux, is best Distro/OS ever designed for any serious computer user. Heck I would use it even for Server environment.

I dare you to say that on /g/

[Covarr]

what the hell were MS thinking with that ribbon? Now I have to relearn everything.

They were thinking "Word is getting too complicated, the only people who can figure it out are those who have already been using it for years." The ribbon takes some getting used to for experienced users, but for new users it's really a lot easier to find the basic functions they need.

[Kudistos Megistos]

what the hell were MS thinking with that ribbon? Now I have to relearn everything.

They were thinking "Word is getting too complicated, the only people who can figure it out are those who have already been using it for years." The ribbon takes some getting used to for experienced users, but for new users it's really a lot easier to find the basic functions they need.

But how many new users do they have compared to experienced ones? I'll wager there are far more of the latter*, so Microsoft is making the majority of customers do unnecessary work just to give a little help to a small minority.

THAT IS COMMUNISM!

*Bear in mind that their old system was similar to the menu system on most other word processors. How many people are there who have never used a word processor before? Surely those are the only people who would get any benefit from the sh*tty ribbon

[Mako]

There's a lot of variation amongst browser usage statistics. However, I think your site might be an anomaly; there's no way that 94% of internet users are using IE.

As far as I know, as well as personally knowing many many website owners to even sith here, would all agree that IE IS the majority of the internet browsers out there. That doesn't make IE good or even bad but as far as web development goes everyone would agree, develop for IE everything else comes at a distant second.

Also these figures are that of Europe it does not reflect the world .

[Kudistos Megistos]

There's a lot of variation amongst browser usage statistics. However, I think your site might be an anomaly; there's no way that 94% of internet users are using IE.

As far as I know, as well as personally knowing many many website owners to eve sith here, would all agree that IE IS the majority of the internet browsers out there. That doesn't make IE good or even bad but as far as web development goes everyone would agree, develop for IE everything else comes at a distant second.

Most statistics agree that IE is the most used browser. However, even the most favourable surveys suggest IE's usage is around 60% worldwide

Also these figures are that of Europe it does not reflect the world .

Hey, I was talking about the developed world, not the whole world.

[Bosola]

However it's really no fault of the OS itself but OpenOffice is really no option in a business setting against MS Office.  Too many incompatibilities and workarounds for it to be workable on a daily basis.

If it were not for that fact, I would have rolled out linux to all our workstations at the office instead of ending our experiment and just keeping centos on our mailserver.

Disagree there. OOWriter is a far better processor for long documents than Word. Word remains unstable for documents > 30 pages, and still provides somewhat limited style management features. OOW, on the other hand, has style inheritance, customizable ToCs, and true kerning support. The ability to apply macros to long documents without crashes is a tremendous boon, too.

And if you really do need MSWord-specific functionality, you'd be better off with a true typesetting program / document processor, like FrameMaker.

I do think IE9 has come some way, but FF offers more customizability (if only by dint of the sheer number of plugins) and Chrome is, I think, a better browser experience than either. I think I do 90%+ of my browsing in Chrome / Chromium / Iron these days.

[Marc]

im sorry to hear that, for me when i used Openoffice it was just fine. i used it at work in place of Ms office. opening mosty documents from word (idk XP version). Truth be told i tend to use the Koffice stuff more now anyway (kde testing mostly). also i don't need any of that for my job now.
EDIT: open document format is the international standard (ISO)for documents (NOT  microsofts formats.)Don't belive me?

I know .odt is the standard format.  But I can't very well start asking my customers to download and install software for my office.

And as far as opening documents, OOo was actually fairly competent.  It's in saving them back to .doc/.xls/.ppt that the issue comes from (and I'm not even discussing .docx/.xlsx/.pptx).

Most of the time, the formatting is lost (minor), data in forms is lost (major) and documents get corrupted when opened back with MS Word (blocker).

Next time we're looking at renewing our office licenses, I'll take a look at it again but that's years away.

I've always found MS Office to be more usable than Open Office (which isn't as open as it used to be now that Oracle are in charge)

Or rather, I've always found Office 2003 to be more usable. Word 2010 is an absolute f*ckfest; what the hell were MS thinking with that ribbon? Now I have to relearn everything.

I actually love the ribbons myself and I was a poweruser.  I did have to relearn the interface which took me a few weeks and I still stumble around every now and then but I think it was a crazy number like 7 out of 10 top requested features to Microsoft for Office were ALREADY in there!

The ribbon has made finding tasks much more logical in my mind for less tech savy user.  And that's the bulk of the users.  Our office had absolutely no trouble adapting.

Disagree there. OOWriter is a far better processor for long documents than Word. Word remains unstable for documents > 30 pages, and still provides somewhat limited style management features. OOW, on the other hand, has style inheritance, customizable ToCs, and true kerning support. The ability to apply macros to long documents without crashes is a tremendous boon, too.

That's really beside the point.

We can't send all our files out as pdf because some do need to be edited by the customers.  In itself, OOo was good software but its difficulties integrating with the standard 99% of the world uses is what makes it unsuable in a business setting.

I very happily use OOo on my home computer.

[Bosola]

We can't send all our files out as pdf because some do need to be edited by the customers.  In itself, OOo was good software but its difficulties integrating with the standard 99% of the world uses is what makes it unsuable in a business setting.

Remember, though, that OOWriter can output to Word 2003 format, which many people are still using, even in an MS environment.

I do appreciate, though, that this is less-than-ideal.

[Hellbringer616]

im sorry to hear that, for me when i used Openoffice it was just fine. i used it at work in place of Ms office. opening mosty documents from word (idk XP version). Truth be told i tend to use the Koffice stuff more now anyway (kde testing mostly). also i don't need any of that for my job now.
EDIT: open document format is the international standard (ISO)for documents (NOT  microsofts formats.)Don't belive me?

I know .odt is the standard format.  But I can't very well start asking my customers to download and install software for my office.

And as far as opening documents, OOo was actually fairly competent.  It's in saving them back to .doc/.xls/.ppt that the issue comes from (and I'm not even discussing .docx/.xlsx/.pptx).

Most of the time, the formatting is lost (minor), data in forms is lost (major) and documents get corrupted when opened back with MS Word (blocker).

I use OOo for our workstations at my workplace. I just set everything to output in Word03 format. Wouldn't that work for you?

[Nightmarish]

I lol'd at the US graphics.
It totally gives ground to the clichés of America, where the citizens somewhat dumb/rednecks/hillbillies, since everybody is like using IE. It's like they get a new pc and they don't care to look for something to optimize their experience (Firefox/chrome fe). I bet they even have those epic IE addon bars.

[Bosola]

Optimization? You call it clunk, I call it functionality. I mean, just look at this beauty!



I mean, with all those toolbars at hand, and all that helpful adware, the world's your oyster!

Also, I like the ribbon. Organizing your UI by principles and logical divisions makes far more sense than 'Here's another feature, let's bury it in a Tools submenu somewhere'.

[Covarr]

Also, I like the ribbon. Organizing your UI by principles and logical divisions makes far more sense than 'Here's another feature, let's bury it in a Tools submenu somewhere'.

This. A million times this. The old interface was not suited to Office as it is today, it's a remnant of a time when it had far fewer features. The ribbon isn't perfect, a few things could probably stand to be in different tabs, but overall, it's easy to figure out, and laid out in a logical way. Keeping the old way because it's already there doesn't make a whole lot of sense given the reason it was that way to begin with. If the new UI were genuinely stupid, there'd be something to complain about, but dislike it just because it's different is the same mindset that keeps people on IE.

Also, I don't care how malware-infested Bonzi Buddy may be, it kicks ass if you're ten years old. Just make sure to install it on a virtual machine or something

[Marc]

I use OOo for our workstations at my workplace. I just set everything to output in Word03 format. Wouldn't that work for you?

That's actually what we did during our tests as nobody could open .odt.  Unfortunately, most of the issues I found with OOo stood with its export back to office feature as it introduced the issues I talked about prior.

To be fair, that's not only an OOo issue as even Word versions have some interoprability issues between themselves.  Word 97 actually faired worse than Writer at most documents ...

I also lol'ed at that toolbar!

[Kudistos Megistos]

Also, I like the ribbon. Organizing your UI by principles and logical divisions makes far more sense than 'Here's another feature, let's bury it in a Tools submenu somewhere'.

This. A million times this. The old interface was not suited to Office as it is today, it's a remnant of a time when it had far fewer features. The ribbon isn't perfect, a few things could probably stand to be in different tabs, but overall, it's easy to figure out, and laid out in a logical way. Keeping the old way because it's already there doesn't make a whole lot of sense given the reason it was that way to begin with. If the new UI were genuinely stupid, there'd be something to complain about, but dislike it just because it's different is the same mindset that keeps people on IE.

Don't turn this into "bawww, you can't cope with change". That argument is very tired and get dragged out whenever a major company fucks up something that worked fine (I remember Youtube using it liberally when people complained about their new video page).

I don't like having to relearn everything from scratch after years of using Word just because some idiot decided that catering to a few people who have never used a word processor before was more important than catering to hundreds of millions of people who have.

Tell me, if Obama and Cameron decided tomorrow that Britain and America's national language would be Ancient Greek from now on, would you be fine with that? After all, Ancient Greek is far more logical than English. Who cares that everyone has been using English since they were born? They just can't cope with change!