Qhimm.com Forums
Miscellaneous Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Roxas on 2011-09-14 07:08:28
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http://www.siliconera.com/2011/09/13/final-fantasy-x-is-being-remade-for-playstation-3-and-vita/
Square Enix are remaking Final Fantasy X for the PlayStation 3 and PlayStation Vita, they announced at Sony’s ongoing press conference in Tokyo. Shinji Hashimoto appeared on stage to announce the games as an anniversary event.
More details will be made available later.
Thoughts?
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I'd be willing to bet this is one of those remasters that's so popular right now. Exact same game, but with some widescreen and a touch of HD.
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Like the "PSP Remaster" series?
If done, I assume X would look something like this, only better:
http://i.imgur.com/0akhX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/hWlKb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Oq8Gx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TVhZO.jpg
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It'll just be a port with a filter. Wow.
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so what exactly does it mean,,,, they will remake the game or they will add some enhancements to become hd?.
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so what exactly does it mean,,,, they will remake the game or they will add some enhancements to become hd?.
They'll probably upscale, widescreen, and smooth. It'll be like the God of War collection.
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A game we never really needed in the first place. :-X
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A great game but this is yet another cash in. Am I right in saying it will mostly be upscaling?
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Pretty much.
If it was bundled with X-2, and maybe even XII that would be better.
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things the world doesn't need
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They remade ff 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... and 10. But 7 8 9? the 3 games that would REALLY make a giant impression into HD noope.
FF10 doesn't need a HD port. Only reason why ps2 didn't support HD is because Sony was so damn stingy with video ram.
Bah only if this game ends up looking like ff13 should it be sold to anyone >_>
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half of those they didnt even remake, just mostly port.
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If they gave ffx the same treatment the god of war games received I would purchase it. I enjoyed ffx and have not played it in a long time.
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I'm definitely buying this. My PS2 hasn't been used in a LONG time, this is much better. I've been waiting for them to do this. A pack with X-2 and XII would be better though!
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I'm going to be getting this too. Overall, I enjoyed this game. They better use the International version though.
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I'd be happy with the version we got in the UK, which as I understand it pretty much IS the international version. With the dark aeons and penance and stuff? The choice between Japanese and English voice acting would also be nice though.
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Yeah dark aeons and Penance. And a choice for the Japanese voice acting would be wonderful because honestly, I hated Tidus's voice.
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Well, im not gonna lie, i will buy this when it comes out, and i dont wanna bash square enix, these guys rock and without them we would have never gotten
ff7 in the first place, but i do think that these guys make all the wrong decisions, they really need to listen to the fans. And i dont know why, but there's a voice
deep down inside me that tells me they will remake ff7 one day, it is coming, i truly believe that, lol...or maybe i just want to believe it, haha :P
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Omg omg omg im defo going to get this day 1 for the ps3 and ps vita (day 1 buy for that console too :))
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@E1SUNZ: Please read the PM i send you...
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Well, im not gonna lie, i will buy this when it comes out, and i dont wanna bash square enix, these guys rock and without them we would have never gotten
ff7 in the first place, but i do think that these guys make all the wrong decisions, they really need to listen to the fans. And i dont know why, but there's a voice
deep down inside me that tells me they will remake ff7 one day, it is coming, i truly believe that, lol...or maybe i just want to believe it, haha :P
That's not true. Squaresoft was responsible for FF7. That is just me, playing semantics.
I agree with everything else, though.
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I've actually been expecting this for a while, because there were rumours a few years ago that this was happening. I wouldn't be surprised if they remade X-2 and XII too. I'd buy both. Cash-in or not, they were all great games in one way or another and the ability to play them in beautiful HD can only enhance what was once an enjoyable experience. Plus trophies for those that care!
I don't get why people are acting like they should be announcing a FF7 remake instead. They'd have to entirely re-work that game from the ground up, and they'd probably totally bastardise it in the process - they're like a completely different company now. It's far easier for them to upscale/update graphics and textures for PS2 games, and I'd much rather they did that and be able to enjoy the same great experience (only enhanced) than them completely change it; which is what they'd have to do to VII.
What we want from a FF7 remake is never going to happen.
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That's not true. Squaresoft was responsible for FF7. That is just me, playing semantics.
I agree with everything else, though.
Yea i know, that was just me typing fast and didnt think much, lol...But you all know what i meant by that, hehe :P
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They have already stated that FF7 would take too long to do in HD. i.e. they can't be arsed puttin in the effort of an older game when they can get by on the mediocrity of the new ones. Why spend 10 years making FF7 in 720p when you can rerelease FFX etc with a simple upscaling and make a wedge of money.
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Or they realise that the way they would want to remake it would piss off the original fans. Re-releasing the PS2 era games is a great move.
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They have already stated that FF7 would take too long to do in HD. i.e. they can't be arsed puttin in the effort of an older game when they can get by on the mediocrity of the new ones. Why spend 10 years making FF7 in 720p when you can rerelease FFX etc with a simple upscaling and make a wedge of money.
Sounds good to me. Why are you so butthurt about Square not remaking VII? It would take too long and they would probably ruin something about it.
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Sounds good to me. Why are you so butthurt about Square not remaking VII? It would take too long and they would probably ruin [everything] about it.
I fixed it :P
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They have already stated that FF7 would take too long to do in HD. i.e. they can't be arsed puttin in the effort of an older game when they can get by on the mediocrity of the new ones. Why spend 10 years making FF7 in 720p when you can rerelease FFX etc with a simple upscaling and make a wedge of money.
Final fantasy 3 and 4 ds what? any just dropped by to say i for one want a ps3 solely for this one game and versus that is all
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Or they realise that the way they would want to remake it would piss off the original fans. Re-releasing the PS2 era games is a great move.
they dont give a SHIT about the original fans
see: every installment in the FF series since 9 / 10
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they dont give a SHIT about the original fans
see: every installment in the FF series since 9 / 10
Original fans need to learn how to move on and stop living in the 90's.
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Original fans need to learn how to move on and stop living in the 90's.
What an excuse... This isn't about "living in the 90's" it is about being mighty pissed off with todays games being worse than the 90's. And yes worse because both content and quality of games after the merger are worse.
Every time people are presented with numerous examples of the dumbing down they resort to telling people to "move on" or "i dont care i didnt like those things anyway"
It all amounts to blind fanboyism.
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Even though it would take a lot of time, don't you think that announcing at some point a FF7 release would make it one of the top sellers of the world?? That game send the foundation of the company's success. It's close to impossible though to make such an investment to a ff7 remake, but wouldn't you agree that out of curiousity almost everyone would buy it???
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Original fans need to learn how to move on and stop living in the 90's.
I'm not even gonna bother explaining to you how much your logic falls short of being useful.
Would you like some godwin's law with your nonsense statement?
Also, that ff7 remake would be mostly pirated. All the people that have played the original and have nostalgia goggles for it are old enough to know how to pirate stuff now. Not to mention, at their current designing direction, the game would be butchered and past a initial nostalgia sales boom, the sales would go abyssmal. Because it's one thing to sell a shitty NEW game and a different one entirely to sell a shitty REMADE game.
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What an excuse... This isn't about "living in the 90's" it is about being mighty pissed off with todays games being worse than the 90's. And yes worse because both content and quality of games after the merger are worse.
Every time people are presented with numerous examples of the dumbing down they resort to telling people to "move on" or "i dont care i didnt like those things anyway"
It all amounts to blind fanboyism.
The only fanboyism here seems to be coming from your posts. "PLZ REMAKE FFVII GUIZE N STOP REMAKING USELESS GAMES LIKE FFX IT SUX MAJOR BALLZ O AND FFXIII SUX TOO EVEN THO I DIDNT PLAY IT"
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Are you even reading what I write? At no time have I asked or wanted a remake of VII. Why would I want these jokers to remake VII?
The point I am making is that today's FF games are demonstrably worse than the ones before the merger, and you come back with "so what". Well I will tell you why "So what", I want to play decent games that challenge me on an intellectual level or fulfill me in an artistic sense, not orgasm noises from Vanille.
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Then don't play the series.
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Then don't play the series.
See this again is your problem. You are simply accepting crap and then telling me that it is "tough luck". Do you not see for 1 second the problem here?
And I don't play the series after FFX. I made that clear. Maybe if you did the same we would get decent games again, but no, instead Enix laughs its head off cause you will buy anything it chucks out.
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Actually, the people that liked it wouldn't call it "accepting crap", they'd call it "liking a game". You're not going to get people to jump on your "let's all boycott games we actually like" wagon by implying that we're all idiots for enjoying a game that we actually enjoyed.
However, you are entitled to your opinion, and can bash it as much as you like. It's really not going to change the fact that some people liked it regardless of flaws. And if you think it's depriving you or anyone like you of your perfect FF experience, that, AGAIN, is your opinion.
And you know what? I couldn't give a shit whether you liked it or not.
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See this again is your problem. You are simply accepting crap and then telling me that it is "tough luck". Do you not see for 1 second the problem here?
And I don't play the series after FFX. I made that clear. Maybe if you did the same we would get decent games again, but no, instead Enix laughs its head off cause you will buy anything it chucks out.
I think the games after FFX are decent, therefore I buy then and play them.
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I think the games after FFX are decent, therefore I buy then and play them.
What you find decent has nothing to do with this... and that's been said multiple times by 3 posters in this section of the forum.
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Actually, the people that liked it wouldn't call it "accepting crap", they'd call it "liking a game".
If you like a bad game, those things are the goddamn same thing
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More lazy acts, made solely to cash in on old glory. That's SE for you.
I bet they won't even bother to update the textures. It will probably just look like what FFX looks like when emulated on a good pc, with maxed out settings. Maybe not even that good. It's not much different than the so called "remakes" of the nes/snes games on the psx - but at least those remakes where warranted in the sense the a large portion of the US/Eur audience never got to play the originals to begin with.
This is just rehashing for the sake of profit because making a new game, or remaking the older ones is "too much work".
And some still wonder why a lot of people now criticize SE?
It's so disingenuous it hurts. Yeah, remaking 6-9 would be a lot of work, but not nearly as much as people seem to think, especially if you consider all the different production methods available to them.
It would take ages if they where to make it look like FF13 - The questions is, why should they?
FF7 doesn't need a FF13 facelift(and doing so would screw over the original art to begin with).
CC was released for PSP for gods sake. Making a three disk PSP game with CC level graphics, wouldn't require half the work of FF13, and most people would still be overjoyed.
This site itself proves how fast a pretty high-quality HD remastered version of FF7 could be made, if it had a dedicated team of payed game devs.
They could even use the original engine if they wanted to, as the people here are. It all depends on how much of a facelift they are going to give, and what console they would be aiming for.
At the end of the day though, if they're willing to give FFX a minor facelift and re-release, they really have no excuse for not doing the same to the older games considering that most of them already has re-releases in ther original formats(I.E waste of time).
Retouch the backgrounds, the 3D models, the textures, the music, the gameplay balance, and the writing, and we'd have a FF7-9 that would at least be passable until(or if) a proper remake is made - This is possible, and wouldn't take SE that much time nor money, and if it had been released through the PSN instead of the original versions, it would probably have sold much better as well. They didn't, yet now they're doing an even shoddier, yet similar work on FFX.
Seriously. What kind of shit is that?
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ahh but Hian, as you said.. when Enix talks about remaking FF7, it does not mean remaking it as we know it. It means messing about with it so that it is in full 3D and has tons of needless cutscenes that weren't there before. For example, when Sephiroth and Zax scuffle in the reactor, Zax is easily beaten as you would expect, but if they remake it, they will want a useless AC battle sequence there that lasts 5 minutes.
This is the problem/. It is their mindset. They want biggerer and betterer, when they should realise that often the simple is more dramatic and less likely to test suspension of disbelief (that AC did ALL the time). When you do things for the sake of doing them, you f*ck things up. See Lucas.
It shocks me how so many people do not understand dramatic tension. When you have a scene that is intending to show a characters power and insanity, the best way to do it is short sharp and to the point. It beats any amount of long fight any day. If you show a battle lasting 5 minutes, not only is it completely unrealistic and unbelievable, but it takes away from the scene. It makes your strong character look weak and it breaks the persons attachment to the fictional world they are experiencing. This is even true in Martial Arts movies. The reason Bruce Lee movies are so good (aside from the fact he was a master) is that he made it so most times, when someone is smashed in the face, they are out cold. He tried to make it as realistic as possible for the genre... it was done in way that made it believable and powerful. No sped up footage or completely unbelievable garbage.
The best examples of people doing the opposite are Star Wars Ep III where Anakin and Obiwan are fighting on lava and the whole of Advent Children.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QThD0r3hZg
People today, and sadly those at Enix, have this idea that "Big graphics = better" and although they will sell to the most mindless among us, it certainly isn't a good thing for fiction to have these totally out of control fight scenes. Not only that, the amount of time to create them is ridiculous. A complete waste of man power.
Graphics if used in a non sensible fashion can ruin the balance of any story or gameplay, as they did with XIII and MGS4, Star wars prequels, Advent Children and a growing number of works. It is completely basic understanding of fiction. Graphics should always be used to enhance the story or gameplay, not a vehicle by which to sell the said story or game. Graphics can never make a story or game, they can only enhance what is there.
If you are using graphics to sell something, you have failed from the start. The reason VII, MGS1 and star wars original endure for well over a decade is because they had depth and quality. The reason Star Wars Prequels ,AC, MGS4 (among other things) will die out, is because there is nothing there except graphics, and appeal to fanboyism, and in time, they become dated or lose their appeal.
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I'm going to get it but I wish they did more than just upscale. I haven't been really impressed with the quality of HD in most remakes but it's good to be able to play them again.
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They have already stated that FF7 would take too long to do in HD. i.e. they can't be arsed puttin in the effort of an older game when they can get by on the mediocrity of the new ones. Why spend 10 years making FF7 in 720p when you can rerelease FFX etc with a simple upscaling and make a wedge of money.
Where's your source on this? I don't remember anything official either way. What you say makes sense though, but even if FF7 would literally require a ground-up re-writing, FF8 and 9 shouldn't. Perhaps SE doesn't want to release 8 or 9 without giving 7 its due course, but then why skip from 4 to 10?! 5 and 6 only got a PS re-release and a GBA update. 4 got those, but then got the DS makeover as well. They may have decided from sales of the 4DS that remakes of that caliber aren't worth it.
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Their exact quote was it will take 10X longer than FF13
http://forums.exophase.com/showthread.php?t=12649&page=1
Kitase:
We’ve gotten this question a lot from many countries (laughs). To make FFXIII at this level of quality, it took us 3 to 4 years. If we were to make FFVII in the same style of FFXIII, it would take 10 times as long, so it would be difficult to take it up immediately. However, we always keep in mind how often this is requested.
Corrected:
FF7 was a quality game, and to create a quality game these days in our precious HD takes too much time. Yawn. Graffix = Sales so get used to it.
It is outrageous what Kitase is saying there, he is blatantly admitting that a game from 1996-7 had more quality than todays games.
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The key part of that post, which pisses me off the most, is the "if we where to make it in the style of FF13" -
Again, why the hell would they do that? And why would anyone want that?
The game could be remade in several ways that would allow it retain present day quality, and yet be done much faster than what is claimed by SE officials.
The entire premise is ridiculous which is why the timeline is ridiculous as well.
Furthemore, games like Oblivion, GW2 Skyrim, GTA4 etc, don't even take 10 years despite their massive amounts of content(more than FF13 by far), which in terms of gameplay and content is much closer to classical era game design than FF13 is.. Even if we grant the FF13 premise, it still wouldn't take 30-40 years to produce a FF7 remake of FF13 standards.
It all comes down to internal company issues, laziness and probably a large dose of insecurity, knowing that if they screw up a FF7 remake, they'd probably lose all credibility as a company in the eyes of a large amount of people.
If they'd bother to put together one large dedicated team, instead of wasting work-power on multiple shitty spin-offs at the same time etc, spendt some time trying to get deals with the original team, and interacting with fans of the original game, a remake could be done in the same amount of time it takes to produce any other game.
At the end of the day, producing games might have gotten more time-costly and expensive, but if you consider the increase of funds and technological advances in the franchise altogether, making games today isn't necessarily more difficult than it was back in the PSX era. If FF7 is impossible today, it should have been impossible back in the days too.
It obviously isn't lack of possibility that is stopping SE from remaking FF7-9 - It is lack of will, and risk VS the fact that it's much simpler to rescale FF10 and milk that for what it's worth instead.
Wait a year or so, and they'll make HD version of FF10-2, and FF12 as well. Maybe we'll see a few more cheap shots at selling the PSX 1-6 as a campaign packet for PS Vita.
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That's the fundamental point, they have this notion and plan that FF7 would need to be in full HD with tons of cutscenes and tons of FMV... that's not what I want anyway! I want FF7 to have a good pacing, not out of control sh*tty graphics.
You can see the cogs already turning in Kitase's brain....
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Just so that i am clear, i don't support in any way any companies here and i don't defend them either. We may discuss our opinions about the reasons that the companies don't develop a lot of good games any more, but the thing is that the game world has become really competitive and the world's economy has changed quite a lot this last years. I can't say for sure if the competition makes square drop the quality of the games or the bad economy but surely these are some reasons too.
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A lot of stuff about suspension of disbelief, tension, storytelling, and shit
If you are using graphics to sell something, you have failed from the start. The reason VII, MGS1 and star wars original endure for well over a decade is because they had depth and quality. The reason Star Wars Prequels ,AC, MGS4 (among other things) will die out, is because there is nothing there except graphics, and appeal to fanboyism, and in time, they become dated or lose their appeal.
And this, ladies and gentleman, is the difference between liking a game for legitamite reasons, and being a fanboy.
People who say you have to "stop living in the < insert era>" have to get their heads out of their asses and actually think about what the other person is saying. An example of this is the reason I like Battlefield 2 infinitely better than the bad company series. It has nothing to do with living in the past, it has to do with the fact that despite both being good games, BF2 has better teamwork elements, better coordination, and rewards players for contributing to the team, whereas BC2 tries to, but fails because It doesn't have as solid of a system with which to base it's teamwork on. The framework is there sure, but it's poorly implemented compared to BF2, there's very minimal squad communication unless you are in a clan, there's no noticeable in game chat unless your in a context-sensitive situation, where people don't even hear the in game voices anyway - while the commo rose in BF2 gave you access to radio commands and squad orders whenever you needed, as well as allowing for people to respond even without VoIP. DICE are acknowledging this by making BF3 more like the older games, and not just disregarding them because they are "old"
Even though the graphics are great, again, they are using it to enhance the gameplay, not as a selling point of the game.
Even if it's not in a case where a game doesn't improve upon its predecessors the point still stands. I don't like Quake 1 better than Quake 4 because I'm living in the 90s, I like it because its environmental design, atmosphere and monsters are more recognizable because they are different from other things, where as Quake 4 is the typical space-marine-fights-aliens-game, and it's apparent that much less work went into interesting designs.
Sure, YOU might not like Quake 1 better but don't dismiss someone's thoughts on something because it's old. That's just being ignorant.
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We have long since established that some people just can't get around to let go of their goddamn fanboyism and use logic
Because that'd be behaving like actual sentient life.
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It is outrageous what Kitase is saying there, he is blatantly admitting that a game from 1996-7 had more quality than todays games.
Todays quality games like, DNF? The market is saturated with dumb games and the quality games are harder to find. It does seem that games that spent more times on visuals lack in gameplay or story and vice versa. Since FF7 is a quality game it would take a long time ( though not really 30 years) to get the graphics on par with the rest of it.
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Not sure if it's true or not but..
http://techdeville.com/2011/09/23/final-fantasy-x-for-the-ps3-and-ps-vita-will-be-a-proper-remake/
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Now that I really do not understand. Why fully remake X? Disregarding peoples opinions on FFVII, it really is a guaranteed cash cow.
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Honestly, games have not become demonstrably worse over the last decade. I can think of scores of piss-poor PSOne games and even more horrid SNES / MegaDrive era titles. The only reason 'classic games' seem better is that, by definition, you forget the unmemorable elements and recall only the extraordinary titles.
FF post FFX has been fairly crap, though. I guess FFTA-2 was... tolerable, but XII and XIII were fucking dire.
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My 3 favourite series have. FF, MGS and Resident Evil. All of them are worse now. I did not mean "games" I meant FF games.
There is also a tradition these days to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Everything has to be 3D and shoot em up style.
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Not sure if it's true or not but..
http://techdeville.com/2011/09/23/final-fantasy-x-for-the-ps3-and-ps-vita-will-be-a-proper-remake/
Eh, I don't believe it for a second. If this was true, the bigger sites, or at least a few that are known for reliable leaks, would be all over it.
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There is also a tradition these days to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Everything has to be 3D and shoot em up style.
Then I'd better leave you to enjoy lofty classics like the 18 (eighteen!) identical NBA games and Austin Powers Pinball.
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FF post FFX has been fairly crap, though. I guess FFTA-2 was... tolerable, but XII and XIII were f*cking dire.
I agree that 13 was not very good but I personally consider 12 to be one of the best games in the series.
In regards to the 10 remake/remaster I will most likely play it as I enjoyed the game but it is not something I would have asked for
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If they gave ffx the same treatment the god of war games received I would purchase it. I enjoyed ffx and have not played it in a long time.
Same here.
FF post FFX has been fairly crap, though. I guess FFTA-2 was... tolerable, but XII and XIII were f*cking dire.
I like FFXII, and would even buy it if they released the International Zodiac Job System with HD graphics & 60 FPS, on PS3. Sure, the story and dungeons are boring - both sometimes sleep-inducing, but if you take it like some kind of pretty and immersive hack n'slash, it delivers nicely.
As for FFXIII, since I could finish it once and complete all the side-quests, it couldn't really be considered a bad game (bad games I can only play for 10 minutes at max). I even know people who like the game. But it's definitely a bad FF. The story is indeed moronic and the whole gameplay so restrictive, you'd be forced to do the exact same things again (be it in the menus, on the field, or in battle) if you were to play through it a second time. It's like, the epitome of linearity, not only in the story & the environments but also in your gameplay choices. Most of the time, it's either "do it" or "don't do it" (Ravager -> Stagger -> kill enemy ; advance in the crystarium or don't... ...and don't get me started on the equipment system).
...I don't know why I felt the need to rant about FFXIII : most of you are already convinced of its flaws >.>
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XII and XIII both suffer with the same problem. Lazy design and lazy story and lazy gameplay dynamics. I know lots of people like XII and XIII but I am afraid they both suffer with glaring faults.
I don't like a game playing without even needing an operator. I prefer some form of intelligent input, a creative spark. 12 and 13 are anything but. There wasn't a story in XII really, and XIII's is a joke. Couple it all together and you have someone who has left FF behind.
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I know lots of people like XII and XIII but I am afraid they both suffer with glaring faults are wrong
Fixed.
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I don't like a game playing without even needing an operator. I prefer some form of intelligent input, a creative spark. 12 and 13 are anything but. There wasn't a story in XII really, and XIII's is a joke. Couple it all together and you have someone who has left FF behind.
Either you never really played ff12 or you are being obtuse on purpose. Every character in your party can be controlled with you choosing everything that they do, the gambits were an option, you did not have to use them. You get as much control of the characters as you did in any of the preceding final fantasies.
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The gambits are not an option. They are a technical option in that if you choose not to use them your life in XII is made miserable. It is bad game design to make a tacky useless and easy system the most beneficial. Telling me I can use an inferior system (my own inputs) is like telling me I have the ability to use manual in a jet airliner for the whole journey.
There are numerous examples of XII and its retarded system, from Summons taking your MP to 0, to them being automatically controlled as you run about, Utterly worthless. Hardly any real minigames, all again relegated to battles which offer nothing but crap prizes. Random treasure that is worthless, not being able to get the most powerful weapons without being glued to a guide, the thin story and non existent character development (don't bother telling me there was any, it was so weak I could have written it on a stamp), nothing to really break up monotony.. all you did was run around huge areas and finish off 1000 monsters with the dumbest system imaginable.
It was a game aimed at the low intellect. It made money because graphics are all that matter these days and because it was called Final Fantasy. Compared to FF7-10 it was a massive dumbing down, and the reason they thought it was great removing 2 playable characters in XIII is because people like yourself salivated over XII.
I am tired of watching this series sink further into brain dead because people continually accept these mindless releases.
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I didn't really enjoy FFXII all that much, but I actually found the gambit system to be quite intuitive. It required strategy and a great deal of thought to plan properly for certain fights, and the option to do it manually was also great. The only real problem I had was with the fact that the characters didn't really end up with specific roles (although they may have started there). So really you ended up with 6 heavy sword weilders absolutely smashing their way through the game. I tried not to play it that way, but it seemed a bit pointless.
Also, it was a far more open game than X, but I still preferred X.
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the internation version of FFXII was pretty cool when compared with the standard one.. especialy duo to the job system.. u guys should google the differences, its pretty neat
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I didn't really enjoy FFXII all that much, but I actually found the gambit system to be quite intuitive. It required strategy and a great deal of thought to plan properly for certain fights, and the option to do it manually was also great. The only real problem I had was with the fact that the characters didn't really end up with specific roles (although they may have started there). So really you ended up with 6 heavy sword weilders absolutely smashing their way through the game. I tried not to play it that way, but it seemed a bit pointless.
You should try the International Zodiac Job System version.
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It was a game aimed at the low intellect. It made money because graphics are all that matter these days and because it was called Final Fantasy. Compared to FF7-10 it was a massive dumbing down, and the reason they thought it was great removing 2 playable characters in XIII is because people like yourself salivated over XII.
I am tired of watching this series sink further into brain dead because people continually accept these mindless releases.
look I think we are going to continually disagree on the merits or lack thereof of ff12 so I will leave my personal feeling on that game aside. I will say though, you mention that "Compared to FF7-10 it [12] was a massive dumbing down" first, these four games play very differently as every final fantasy should at least to an extent. If you consider 12 to be dumbed down from the previous releases then you could say that 9 was dumbed down from the previous release. ff8 had what some woud consider to be a complex system namely junctioning, whereas 9 was much easier to pickup and understand how to play and how you learn techniques.
Every final fantasy fan or rpg fan will disagree on what is the best game in that series or genre, many people dont like final fantasy 7,8,9 or 10 (the four games you seem to believe were a pinnacle of the series) in fact it is thought that 7 was "dumbed down" compared to ff6. I like 12 even though I agre it has its faults, but I also enjoy ff7-10 and the games before them which also had faults of thier own and I am sure I will find merit in the so called "mindless releases" that will come in the future as many other people will as well
p.s. please don't imply that I have a low intellect simply because I like a videogame that you don't
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I could sit here and list all the issues with XII compared to VII-X, but you will just do what everyone does, come back with "I liked that". XII is factually and observably dumbed down. I cannot make that any more plain. It would be like making a thesis on why 2+2 equals 4. Pointless.
As I have repeated numerous times, what people like has nothing to do with it.
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ITT "I'm right and you're wrong"
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what people like has nothing to do with it.
This may be the stupidest I have ever seen someone write. the infamous movie "Plan 9 from outer space" is obviously flawed, you can look at it critically and say why it is a badly made film , but I enjoy watching it no matter what . Peoples opinions on a product is the most important thing, I hated ff13, I got it a week before its commercial release and sold it a week later, but if someone were to say thats it is their favourite game ever then that is fine because its their choice. You could list all the problems with ff12 and I could do the same with ff7-10 because they also have problems but it wouldnt matter because you would still enjoy playing those games. Stop being so self rightous it is only a videogame
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ITT "I'm right and you're wrong"
is the argument the party that is wrong uses all the time
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Not at all, personally liking something has absolutely nothing to do with critical evaluation, and the fact you think it does proves I was right to terminate our conversation.
If you can't separate that fundamental point then there is no way you will ever think outside of the box.
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Not at all, personally liking something has absolutely nothing to do with critical evaluation
The problem is, you can't do critical evaluation on subjective matters.
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I have done plenty of times, but the come back along with many is "But I liked not having minigames" " I didn't mind the new challenge of selecting gambits to do all the work for me" "I didn't mind the new political story, I don't like all that character development stuff" "I didn't like NPC" "I didn't like traditional towns"
The come backs ignore everything people say on the matter because one can't accept the games one likes are low quality and dumbed down and contrary to what the basics of RPG are.
Nothing you like or excuse is going to change the fact that XII had a bare bones story and an awful gameplay compared to VII-X, no excuses you can make can hide the flaws of XIII and its 2 AI characters auto mode and its gauntlet play through. There are real flaws, numerous and game breakers in both these games, and that isn't an opinion. It is a fact.
You are asking me to pretend that there is some sort of opinion based discussion going on but like many things that is an illusion. Again, what you like is what you like. It is possible to like something that is flawed and/or dumbed down. That is your own personal preference... but please don't try to argue like because of this, the flaws don't matter or don't exist.
They do.
We have long since established that some people just can't get around to let go of their goddamn fanboyism and use logic
Because that'd be behaving like actual sentient life.
Maybe it just comes down to that.
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loldrama
As for the topic at hand, at best this'll be upscaled for 720p/1080p and might have some updated UI elements being that it's the current trend, the Metal Gear Solid HD Collection due out in November is just upscaled with improved UI artwork and a few other tweaks for controls, as are the recent Splinter Cell and Resident Evil 4/Code Veronica "HD" releases.
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I honestly think FFX is worse than XII. Some people say that Lost Odyssey was the "true" FF12. Some people honestly thinks FF7 is the worst game ever (try to google it).
There will always be diverged opinions on just about everything. I could go on and on arguing why 12 is better than 10, but it's not worth it. If we talk about content, FF11 is probably the best FF (no, no that was a joke). ;D
Will I buy FF10 again? no.
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Not sure if it's true or not but..
http://techdeville.com/2011/09/23/final-fantasy-x-for-the-ps3-and-ps-vita-will-be-a-proper-remake/
So just abandon remaking FF's 5-9 first? I don't believe that at all.
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The problem is, you can't do critical evaluation on subjective matters.
Not? Really? Then what are art critics or movie critics or game critics doing? Lying out their asses? Have you recently won a dummy emmy?
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i'm gonna speak once, and then not again because i don't feel like getting into an idiotic flame war.
it isn't that everyone else is a fanboy, the problem is you are, and can't understand that not everyone likes the same damn thing as you.
i personally loved FFXIII, go ahead, insult me, see if i care (hint: i don't), you can like an old school game, but when it gets to the point that the company isn't going in the direction you want, and you start calling out people that enjoy the games they're given out, it just makes you look sad.
go ahead, insult my opinion, just call me "another fanboy" i honestly don't care, all i ever see Kuugen doing is insulting peoples opinions on this when they conflict his own, a little less so for DLPB but i digress.
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A fanboy doesn't make arguments for and against games in the same series, he makes excuses for the ones that are bad, and buys almost anything the company throw out.
Those are the differences.
tbh I am not sure fanboyism is the be all and end all of this problem. I place it down to a severe lack of taste and/or the lack of ability to approach it with a technical mind. I had 1 guy who placed FF7 as the worst FF and FF12 as his best... as you can expect I didn't exactly appreciate his "opinion" and called him bonkers.
I wouldn't classify him as a fanboy because he hated FF7 and loved 12... therefore he wasn't just sucking up to the series. His problem was he was bonkers and had bad taste... to be fair, most of the FF fanboys are either in the FF6 or FF7 camp (although the 12 and 13 camp is growing)
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Remember, everyone: insult the position, not the person.
Also,
"I didn't mind the new political story, I don't like all that character development stuff"
This gets me onto something else: where did this idea come about that FFXII had a particularly 'political' story? It's true there's a lot of talk about certain kingdoms and empires doing the odd bit of posturing, and heading each other off whilst trying to avoid overt war, but we're talking about some pretty basic stuff here - it's hardly Yes, Minister.
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Yes, Minister is class (and so is the follow up Yes, Prime Minister) ;) [as is The New Statesman"]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZpLE2QYafM Classic.
I think the idea came about because advocates of it being a great game were remaking the Emperor's New Clothes. In my experience, most times a story is called "Deep" it is really either a convoluted mess people have mistook for intelligent or else has nothing there but a very vague pseudo plot.
And that is XII... pseudo politics. Very basic. Some times I get a defender who tells me that a story doesn't need character development, and whilst that can be true in some circumstances, it sure isn't in a proper novel or in what is supposed to be a good RPG story. If you don't care for what is going on to the characters you can't care for the story or place yourself into a story emotionally. It is critical.
In XII because we can't care for these cardboard characters, nothing that happens means anything.. We hear of this horrible empire but we never really feel it or have any care for this boring world.
I am always extremely wary when I see the word deep.
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Not? Really? Then what are art critics or movie critics or game critics doing? Lying out their asses? Have you recently won a dummy emmy?
They just try to explain their opinion, without the pretention to hold the absolute truth. When they say they prefer oranges over apples, they try to explain why, but don't imply that people who prefer apples are mentally deficient. There is your difference.
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They just try to explain their opinion, without the pretention to hold the absolute truth. When they say they prefer oranges over apples, they try to explain why, but don't imply that people who prefer apples are mentally deficient. There is your difference.
This is the root of it right here. Thank you Armorvil, you nailed it. I couldn't find a proper way to describe what I have been seeing.
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They just try to explain their opinion, without the pretention to hold the absolute truth. When they say they prefer oranges over apples, they try to explain why, but don't imply that people who prefer apples are mentally deficient. There is your difference.
This. Multiplied by five million.
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What absolute bollocks. An analogy between apples and oranges and FF games?
Absurd.
Desperation springs to mind. That isn't a decency analogy at all.
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What he's getting at is that the newer FF games are so different from the old ones, there's not even a decent comparison to be made. Gambits and paradigms are more of a metagame, and much less actively involved.
But the bigger point, which you seem to have missed, is this bit:they try to explain why, but don't imply that people who prefer apples are mentally deficient. There is your difference.
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From where I stand, about 90% of the people I see, meet and know are mentally deficent to the point where I wonder how they go on living without forgetting to breath.
Enjoy your subjective standard of mental deficiency
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They just try to explain their opinion, without the pretention to hold the absolute truth. When they say they prefer oranges over apples, they try to explain why, but don't imply that people who prefer apples are mentally deficient. There is your difference.
/thread
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Final Fantasy 12 battle's system wasn't as bad as some people make it sound.. ye gambits do most of the work but in some battles u HAVE to go manually or u will end up meeting the gameover screen.. besides there are TONS of combinations for gambits... its a very different system when comparing it to the previous FF's but its not a bad one... the only thing that felt bad about FF12 to me was the story.. and the fact that all characters seem to be able to do the exact same things.. no diversity at all... however like i posted before, the international version with the job system totaly fixes that and makes the game 20 times more fun...
also ye.. 1 game can't satisfy every1... either u like it or u don't.. if u don't like it, just stay away from it.. mocking people who enjoy it wont make it any better
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I was drunk when I wrote that :o nonetheless I will stick by it :P I have said my piece on it. Peace out people. :mrgreen: I think we all know where we stand on the issue. I am only annoyed that I believe Squenix games will continue to stay stagnated, that's my only gripe.
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ill probably buy a ps3 because of this, if it really happens. especially if its just a hd remaster of same exact graphics. i have played this game a lot, and i still really enjoy it.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO86hl1g6CA
on topic :) at least as far as FFX is concerned. Shame about sound quality.
oh and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3dmDWFM0ms
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Loved those soundtracks my fave would be from ffxiii and certain ones from ff6 and ffx also has some good ones
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Don't know if I will get this. I rather enjoy playing X on a PS2 emulator. And the game looks amazing compared to an actual PS2. And for a remake, I would really prefer IX. That is one of my favorite FF's. And honestly we pretty much have an FF7 remake courtesy of Qhimm.com :). IMO it keeps the old feeling with a lot of nice new stuff thrown in.
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I think that my general thought about the series is that I have liked all the titles but the difficultly has generally went down since IV. From an accessibility perspective I guess that you would not want to make it too hard, and there are always the "No item" or "Low level" challenges or whatnot a player can aim for...I just feel like you should be able to get everything the game has to offer and still be able to have some difficulty. I think it says something about the difficulty of a game if you can beat it at the lowest level, or with no materia in the case of FF7.
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I pretty much agree with everything that DLPB has said apart from his opinion on XII. I think it's a fantastic game that was unfortunately strangled by a poor plot. But anyway.
I just don't understand the claims over the time needed to reproduce VII. 3-4 years for a brand new game yes. That includes designing and concept art from scratch, coming up with the plot and script etc from a blank page. VII doesn't need any of that. Heck, there's no need to change the kernel or any of the other systems. All of the non-cosmetic content is already there and so is all of the base work for the graphical content.
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The time they talk about is the time it will take to make the game have a thousand non needed cut scenes that last for ages.
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I pretty much agree with everything that DLPB has said apart from his opinion on XII. I think it's a fantastic game that was unfortunately strangled by a poor plot. But anyway.
I just don't understand the claims over the time needed to reproduce VII. 3-4 years for a brand new game yes. That includes designing and concept art from scratch, coming up with the plot and script etc from a blank page. VII doesn't need any of that. Heck, there's no need to change the kernel or any of the other systems. All of the non-cosmetic content is already there and so is all of the base work for the graphical content.
If they remade FF7, they'd probably keep fairly faithful to the story but bump up the visual fidelity to FFXIII standards. To do this, they'd need the following:
- Entirely new character and enemy models, including extensive animations
- Entirely new environments, with content on all sides to work with free camera (no 2D backgrounds)
- FMVs either remade or re-done in-engine (no damn reason to use FMVs for elevators anymore).
- Voice acting
- Orchestrated soundtrack
- Either a new engine, or porting FF7 mechanics to Crystal Tools (including a fair number of minigames)
- New dialogue (even required if they're keeping faithful to the original, as there are a fair number of issues even in the original Japanese version that they'd need to fix)
- New translations
The thing is, the graphical stuff takes a lot of time and a lot of money to do if you're aiming for the level of quality visuals that FFXIII had. The cosmetic stuff and programming are the two biggest parts, and both things that would need significant reworking for a modern release.
Based on Final Fantasy III DS, IV DS, and IV Complete Collection, I have a fair amount of faith in Square-Enix to make a reasonably faithful remake; they usually save their shitty new ideas and unnecessary cutscenes for entirely new projects. However, even a GOOD remake that is purely cosmetic and still true to the story, gameplay, and overall feel of the original would require a TON of work. Honestly, concept art, plot, and script are among the fastest parts of building a game, compared to actually implementing it.
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[li]New dialogue (even required if they're keeping faithful to the original, as there are a fair number of issues even in the original Japanese version that they'd need to fix)[/li]
[li]New translations[/li]
[/list]
Or they could jusst take DPLB & Luksy's retranstaltion project and take that off the list that would certainly speed things up :D[/list]
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Even the Japanese dialogue would be different though. Probably not significantly so, but there were a few things they'd change to clarify, or to match engine changes (for example, tutorial stuff).
Not to mention, some of the retranslation stuff focuses on accuracy over convention, but S-E would almost certainly try to match their established conventions instead. For example, they'd use the same spell-naming scheme they use in damn near all of their English-language releases, even though it's not as accurate a translation.
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If they used their brains, they wouldn't have kept the hogwash canon in the first place...and even Malboro has changed... They used Morbol in XI (morbol is possibly correct, malboro is not)... it is a symptom of trying to keep all these insane inaccuracies.. you just get inconsistency.
And certainly dialogue wise, I think our translation holds up overall.. it does use a lot of Michael Baskett's original material. It would certainly save them time.. 'course, they won't bother. Covarr is also correct that they would change the story.
I await the day Genesis is shoe horned into the main story of VII original.