[FF7PC] Post bug reports here [use The Reunion thread instead]

[DLPB_]

I'll also be adding dialogue issues, but only if it's an original Japanese error.  For example, chocobos having belly buttons   Charlie Beer discovered one recently in his proof check of the Japanese...  Aerith isn't told that Tifa's bar is the Seventh Heaven, but later knows its name.  I've added exposition earlier to compensate.

[Sega Chief]

I'll also be adding dialogue issues, but only if it's an original Japanese error.  For example, chocobos having belly buttons

But do they have ears? 

[DLPB_]

Myst6re has informed me that layer 3 of fr-e is special because it uses transparency. It doesn't seem to be right in the field file (PC) and even if it were, I'm betting the engine wouldn't display it right, unless aalis driver fixed it. I think were forced to use char.lgp with the shadow

And yes, they do have ears. 

[Kaldarasha]

Seems that the layer is really broken. Even Palmer shows only a black layer. Also, compared to kuro_1 the shadow has a strange set of functions, maybe the game should render the shape in real time?

[DLPB_]

The only way to fix this is by putting a shape into char/lgp and using it in field (using makou to add it).

A page or so back I added the shape needed.  If it's possible to create that then I'll have a go at fixing the field that way.  The layer method isn't going to work.  The current PC field has had the background layer disabled due to issues with the transparency effect - and I don't think the engine supports transparent layers in the PC port.

So we're stuck with a workaround.  Luckily the only field in the game that uses transparent layers is fr_e (rootmap does too, but is debug menu only).

[Ansem]

I don't think the engine supports transparent layers in the PC port.

Doesn't it, though? I imported this field's full background from the English PSX files, and the blue bubbles are as transparent as they should..

Then again, it may be a different thing altogether. There's the fact that in this field (startmap) the transparency is on Layer 1, which is the foreground. In fr_e it is Layer 3, which is commonly an animated layer, so I'm not sure if these two instances are even remotely related to each other.

In any case, importing the PSX layers for fr_e using Makou gave shitty results at best, so it's probably not worth it to even try fixing it. Using a flat square model with a transparent shape textured on it is the easiest way to do it, and will look much better, too. I fully agree with that idea.

[DLPB_]

Makou has serious issues with Z order importing and fails on some backgrounds.  This one could be one of them - or it might be transparency related.  I agree that layer 3 may be the issue that wrecks the fr_e background in this case.  Perhaps that's where the port falls down.  But it's nice to know it works for rootmap.

[DLPB_]

Party member placement is not updated correctly from PHS - and not at all from the Order screen.  I don't know if that's the case in PSX.

Cloud
Tifa
Barrett

Cloud has ID 0
Tifa has ID 2
Barrett has ID 1.

The vars (Bank 2 [9], Bank 2 [10] and Bank 2 [11]) should hold the following:

0
2
1

Which they will be if you use PHS and completely change the party.  But if you swap the characters about in the order screen, the vars will remain 0,2,1. So if you then have this order:

Cloud
Barrett
Tifa

The vars will still be 0,2,1.  At cutscenes, this means that the game will behave as though Tifa is party member 2 and not party member 3. The PHS menu also suffers with a problem.  If you completely change the party, the vars will be updated properly. But if you swap out only one member, the vars are not updated properly either. So the cutscenes will again display members out of place.

The vars Bank 2 [9], Bank 2 [10] and Bank 2 [11] are ALWAYS supposed to mirror 4F8, 4F9 and 4FA of the savemap (which are updated with Order option also).  At the moment, this is not happening.  I should be able to add this fix for R06.


edit.

Because Cloud can be moved in the order screen, it messes this up. So the order screen not changing vars may be deliberate.  Still, PHS is not updating properly when swapping out one char. That's definitely an issue.

edit 2.

Because the party leader isn't locked to the first slot, they've basically created some sort of crappy update procedure to make sure the party leader doesn't end up being placed in the vars reserved for member 2 and 3.  What they should have done is lock party leader to the first slot.

edit 3.

An easy fix is to simply make party member 2 always equal the member that is highest (ignoring party member 1, who is leader). That way, if order is

Tifa (2)
Cloud (0)
Barrett (1)


Tifa will be member 2 and Barrett will be member 3.

[DLPB_]

Also, wtf is going on in trnad_53 Cloud Script 3?

Looks like not only left over code - but actual code still in use that displays the location in a dialogue box.  Something that somehow doesn't show up in actual play?  Anyone want to find out why while I'm busy?

Actually...  this map isn't being used at all. It's only ever seen via the debug menu.

[DLPB_]

Field error [fixed] nvmin1_2:  Pointed out to me by Charlie Beer... who has a good eye.  He noticed that the brother and sister - who later end up wearing  black cloaks - are the wrong size in PC version.  I've checked Japanese field v PC - and he's absolutely right.  They should both be size 256.  One of them is 512.

[DLPB_]

Having a nice chat with Charlie Beer

sidenote, do you have any idea what tifa is supposed to be doing in this map when she does that weird ass animation
https://youtu.be/29euU5fNqk8?t=369

Daniel Burke: let's see
No i dont
i dont think she is meant to stay there like a lemon at any rate
also sinin2_1 you will see a "memory" dialogue

Anonymous Dinosaur: she's lemoning so hard and it bugs the shit out of me

Daniel Burke: that is erroneous and v likely a left over message from the script programmer to himself
I'll have to look into it
i dont think she is meant to do that

Anonymous Dinosaur: she does that animation twice, then, and when she picks up the Premium Heart
its so weird

Daniel Burke: It's not the first time either that that happens in regards to left over script.  At Junon, the programmer left in "1 2 3 "  set with a var - to tell him the timing in game as we was struggling to work out why Cloud wasn't lining up right and so on.  I fixed it.
he*
in gme you literally see "And... 1" "and...2"  "and.... 3"  Poor Baskett had no fucking clue what it was

Anonymous Dinosaur: lmaooooo

Daniel Burke: also the "switch on" dialogue in the reactor is also a debug message
in the elevator

Anonymous Dinosaur: that makes so much sense

Daniel Burke: they forgot to take it the fuck out
usually debug messages are removed.  Like when Barrett comes running into seventh heaven.  The dialogue is hidden "THUD THUD THUD sound should come in here"

Anonymous Dinosaur: makes you realise how much less proofing these games had

Daniel Burke: well they were rushed and the testers obv thought that "switch on" was intended
lmao

Anonymous Dinosaur: ahahaha
oh well
it has now been solved years later

Daniel Burke: also fun note, the high mid low game at the gold saucer was meant to have better odds... but the programmer made a common mistake with probability.  He didn't factor in how it works in those cases and assumed that overall odds would be like 400-1
he made it 3709-1 to beat the game
as a consequence, no tester ever beat it and so if you ever do there is a bug leading to an invisible final opponent.
the game is meant to end after the superman
luksy and i fixed it

Anonymous Dinosaur: amazing

Daniel Burke: in fact when I noted this issue... a member of Qhimm made the EXACT SAME mistake
that the programmer did

Daniel Burke: http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=12667.msg176030#msg176030  this guy thinks i'm being sarcastic. I'm not.
Erzfreund calculates it properly using math further down

Anonymous Dinosaur: fucking hell

Daniel Burke: It's not as simple as it first appears eh  
In any case... changing the rounds to 5 instead of 10 fixes the odds to around 300-1

so you can actually win the game now?

Daniel Burke: yeah.  Odds are good and also last opponent is correctly last opponent
If you played the fight game 100 times, then you'd beat the Girl ~66 times.
------------
Not true.. you might beat her 0, might beat her 100

<< thats the error in thinking
that because the odds of winning 10 rounds is 66% that means you will always win 66%.  That isnt how it works.  I mean, it's theoretically possible to win ALL 40 rounds without losing  a point
and to lose all 10 in a singl round

Anonymous Dinosaur: yeah thats like...... fundamentally how probability works

Daniel Burke: If you played the fight game 100 times, then you'd beat the Girl ~66 times.
This is only correct of course if you played a million times...  then it will be much closer to 66%
100 times.. forget it.

Anonymous Dinosaur: truly a beginners mistake

Daniel Burke: yes!  script programmer should have gotten off his fat arse and walked across to ken narita and asked him

Anonymous Dinosaur: and the programmer literally programmed that faulty logic into the game hahaha

Daniel Burke: hiroki was the script programmer from what I can see
yeah!
haha
when i was a kid i could never beat the 3rd opponent.  To beat 1 2 and 3 has odds if i recall of around 400-1
beating 4th too is 3709-1
So i knew something was amiss

Anonymous Dinosaur: same, i tried and tried and tired

[Kaldarasha]

The animation is correct. Zax Cloud and Sephiroth talk about things of which she has no understanding, so she gets bored and starts playing with the water. It might had looked better if she would kneel down but then she would probably out of the scene. This behavior is also interesting regarding the true Cloud in many ways. If this would be the real Cloud in that conversation, Tifa wouldn't do that but watch him carefully. It's also interesting that she does that in his told story while the Cloud we see doesn't pay much attention to her. This might be over interpretation, but it could be a hint that this is a memory from the true Cloud, who has followed the whole scene and has noticed it.

Edit:
I have currently played the snowboard minigame and realized that the balloon animation is broken on PC.

[nfitc1]

I always thought she does the anime face fault, just not so animatedly. Cloud says "mysterious power" and Sephiroth just laughs and Tifa collapses because she thought it was a stupid thing to say too. The timing of this animation is either intentional or poorly executed.


As for http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=12667.msg176030#msg176030
I could revive that and might be able to give a better equation to the odds of the original script. If you want, that is.

[DLPB_]

I fixed the odds by simply making the rounds first to 5 instead of 10. This slashes odds to around 300-1 to beat the entire game. I am not sure you have interpreted that scene right, kal. In the real cloud version, he is wearing his helmet and she doesn't fi d out its him until the very end in the reactor

[Kaldarasha]

I mean that the real Cloud had seen everything from the distance. It might that what we see, is something from his own memory. Though, I don't believe that this is the case, since Nomura said in an interview that Clouds' mystery past was invented at the very end of the project. This means that they probably didn't meant that this soldier should be Cloud in the first place. Well, who knows? I simply wouldn't remove it from that scene but changing it to another more fitting animation.

[August]

As CB mentioned, Tifa also plays that animation when she picks up the Premium Heart (and we can see more clearly that she's almost touching the floor), except that the Mako fountain scene gives her outstretched arm a prolonged twirling motion. In the previous scene she's standing outside the fountain, close to the water's edge, and does not move during the next scene except to turn towards the fountain and bend down. I interpret this scene to be Tifa idly playing with the water at her feet, captivated by the fountain more than the Soldiers' conversation.

[DLPB_]

I agree.  It does look a little bloody silly, though. Haha.

[DLPB_]

@Kal

Charlie put me onto this.  Check sininb2.  Cid's feet are wrong because he is using Cloud's animations.  What is he supposed to be using for those?

[August]

I agree.  It does look a little bloody silly, though. Haha.

Yes - one might well ask why she has a "pickup" animation like that in the first place, while Cloud's is the more sensible kneeling variety. Let's just say that methinks someone at Square had a bit of fun animating Tifa.

[[email protected]]

.

[DLPB_]

The mansion theme should be fixed with Anxious Heart.  I'm sure I've had this convo at least 5 times. Please check for me. We definitely discussed the other bugs. They are fixed. 

[[email protected]]

.

[DLPB_]

The entire audio module has been replaced in R06 and now also uses psx effects. So those issues you raised are all fixed too. They aren't listed there. Nearly all will be caused by the faulty module which has been replaced.  But I'll add the ones you noted.  The aero one may be a scene.bin battle problem if it isn't the audio module.
 
Please check Anxious Heart for me and make sure that the Mansion music is fixed. I'm sure I went through this question 2 years ago.

[August]

Here's a funny one: if you access the menu while you are moving in the buggy, the menu sfx are all higher pitched. It appears the buggy simply has the one engine noise that is pitched up when accelerating, but it affects all sfx across the board.

[DLPB_]

I didn't know it changed pitch - that's something I am so far not emulating - but when it gets added, it shouldn't cause this issue.  It uses a completely different channel.  I bet this didn't happen in PSX.