Author Topic: Bring it on?  (Read 23865 times)

nfitc1

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Bring it on?
« on: 2009-08-21 16:12:20 »
As motivation for me to finish the latest PrC and WM update, I'd like to know how many people would be interested in making enemies and seeing me battle them on Youtube. They're really close to being ready, but I have two or three things to do before that. I want to know if anyone would be willing to submit their enemy hacks to me to provide audio commentary on. I'd be doing them blind and I promise not to look at their stats before the battles. It might offer a more objective opinion of your enemies.
I lost interest in the Kirby SS battle arena vids I was making and my Speed Run of Super Metroid remake is getting close to being complete (about 70% done I think). I need a new challenge.
So make some fierce enemies, or lots of timid enemies. How 'bout it? Any takers?

ff7rules

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Re: Bring it on?
« Reply #1 on: 2009-08-21 18:47:36 »
Im in hell yeah you can fight my midgar zolom for my patch as a demo since you have helped me so much! ill email u the scene.bin when im done with it. Oh KOTR is banned in my patch it doesn't exist.

nfitc1

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Re: Bring it on?
« Reply #2 on: 2009-08-21 18:51:00 »
You'd need to send me all the modifications you've made as well as a save file you'd like me to fight it on. Fighting with my goosed-up players won't be a challenge.

ff7rules

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Re: Bring it on?
« Reply #3 on: 2009-08-21 18:59:40 »
i dunno noone has managed to beat it yet. ill send you that and the kernal, your free to use your own save.

titeguy3

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Re: Bring it on?
« Reply #4 on: 2009-09-11 16:30:04 »
Hrm...I haven't made anything obscenely hard, but The turks at midgar, the turks at the gelnika, final ultimate weapon, and sepher sephiroth are decent challenges in my AI Renovation...

secondadvent

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Re: Bring it on?
« Reply #5 on: 2009-09-12 04:28:29 »
hmm... i may have to take you up on this at some point :D.

as for now, i am still redoing the enemy stats, and as the stuff i am doing is mainly just to see how a good balance would go (not extremely hard yet), it wouldn't be that hard... i will put that part off until i find a good full-game balance :P. from what i have seen so far though, with my enemy AI overleveling is actually pretty dangerous if you don't get better equipment, testing at level 25 with just the thunder/thundara and cure/cura (with initial equipment) was pretty difficult through the reactor, but using ultimate equipment and having master magic/summon made things simple (though since i am allowing higher stats for every few areas for the monsters, the disk 3 enemies would still be very difficult with all of my rebalanced attacks/equipment, or so i hope.

EDIT: made all reactor one enemies with a shot elemental attack to essentially ignore back row for damage calculation (since enemies do not do that for whatever reason, even with the shoot element) by creating an identical attack with just double power, and making the AI check for either the target or self in the back row, and if it is, it will use the double strength attack, otherwise the normal version of it, making it so that no matter where you or the enemy are, the attacks will do full damage. the fact that only guard hound and mono drive (though it has souped up fire attacks) do not have ranged attacks now, means that even the back row is not really safe anymore (fighting a gruntx2 and sweeper battle at level 25 was actually boss worthy, due to the ranged attacks and lack of equipment, not to mention blind from smoke shot :-P), and is how i am assuming most of the reactor enemies were meant to be designed, based on their AI layout (shoot was supposed to be LR for enemies as well, but it didn't make it or is bugged).

after i make my changes to guard scorpion, as well as the menu item/magic power (though i have no idea of where to look :X), since it is separate from the kernel data, i think it will make a decent taste of what everything will be like (may not add in an exp/ap/gil equation for the enemies for now, though it will likely be added later, but the exp needed to level will also be boosted, and AP for learning altered as well, though that is later :-P), i still have to play the entire way through the reactor, and i think that a restore materia may be added to cloud in place of the ice materia, because cure costs 8 MP now (with boosted output), my 200 hp healing potions are likely better since you get a cure materia before GS, though you cannot use it until sector 7 :roll:. i hope you are willing to play through the first reactor, or at least my GS battle, though it wouldn't have the same effect as leveling your party yourself  :wink:.
« Last Edit: 2009-09-13 10:23:09 by secondadvent »

nfitc1

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Re: Bring it on?
« Reply #6 on: 2009-09-15 03:22:55 »
Now that they're out and (should be) working, send 'em my way and I'll see how they are. :D

secondadvent

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Re: Bring it on?
« Reply #7 on: 2009-09-15 12:15:07 »
i'm almost ready, just have a little more tweaking to do (GS is a long fight if you run out of MP), i am thinking of making ethers more common from mono drives since 1/8 seems to be too low chance for only restoring 40 MP now (i would really like to find the menu data for the items so that the changes happen there as well :|), and with the higher MP cost, i think 1/4 would be more appropriate. still debating on having barret with fire materia, and giving cloud restore in place of ice, though activating the materia menu at the start would probably be better since you get a free restore materia anyway.

meh... it should be done here in an hour or so it will still take some time since GS's AI needs more optimizing... i have to start from a fresh kernel though because my current one is probably a little messy from testing stuff :D. i will send the files (created via WM and PrC  :wink:) for you to add, and would send a save but i am still trying to find a good level for the end of the reactor through normal fighting, so it may be best to play through yourself (though you don't have to record it all. if you record anything, i would prefer just a GS fight, though i'd rather just get input from you on how everything went  :-P).

i may also send a starting level of 25 kernel for you to play with as well, though restore materia is mandatory from my experience, because the enemies take more away than the 200 HP restoring potions give, but it would just be to show off the leveling system  8-). oh, and you could check hojo if you wanted for the stats, because you would not be able to see what the enemy stats would be at any given level without checking the AI and making a calculator to find the stats at a given level, so the only reason not to check would be for item drops, though i do have a pretty nice excel spreadsheet that shows the stats for all of my enemies  :evil:.

... i seriously need to stop typing so much  :-)
« Last Edit: 2009-09-15 14:09:28 by secondadvent »

nfitc1

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Re: Bring it on?
« Reply #8 on: 2009-09-15 15:26:54 »
Just be sure to only send the changes files. That's all I'll want.

secondadvent

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Re: Bring it on?
« Reply #9 on: 2009-09-15 16:10:41 »
i cannot for the life of me get the patch thingy to work right... i have created multiple patches, none of which i can patch onto a fresh kernel file (haven't tested PrC's patch maker yet), getting this error:

Code: [Select]
System.IndexOutOfRangeException: Index was outside the bounds of the array.
   at WallMarket.Form1.ApplyChangesPatchWMToolStripMenuItem_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.RaiseEvent(Object key, EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripMenuItem.OnClick(EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.HandleClick(EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.HandleMouseUp(MouseEventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.FireEventInteractive(EventArgs e, ToolStripItemEventType met)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.FireEvent(EventArgs e, ToolStripItemEventType met)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStrip.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mea)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripDropDown.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mea)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStrip.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripDropDown.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)

how exactly is it supposed to be used? do you load a fresh kernel/scene.bin and then load the changes from the modified one, or vice versa? you never really clarified on how it was meant to be used, you just said it could be done  :wink:

edit: PrC does the same thing, but before giving the error it even says that the file is not a valid PrC file, so i have no idea what is going wrong (even tested with making a single change, creating a patch right after, and applied without the invalid file message, but still got the main error). i just seem to be getting all kinds of errors, all the time, huh?  :|
« Last Edit: 2009-09-15 16:40:58 by secondadvent »

nfitc1

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Re: Bring it on?
« Reply #10 on: 2009-09-15 17:44:43 »
Send me the files that are giving you those errors. All my test patches worked. You're likely doing the steps right, but something went wrong in the saving...

secondadvent

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Re: Bring it on?
« Reply #11 on: 2009-09-15 17:53:12 »
alright, hold on a sec, i have to fax something first (because my school doesnt believe in emailing scanned documents, and because of that this is my 5/6th time doing this >_>"), and it is kind of a good thing that i didn't send the older files anyway, because i balanced out mono drive some more, taking from their magic and adding to atk/def (they still do 80-100 damage with fire, due to it's upgraded nature, so the big group of three is still deadly, not to mention how long it takes to kill the grunts that comes with the larger groups)... i ran out of potions in my current save, so all i have is cure from the restore materia, so i am guessing that restore is pretty required now :-P.

and which order does it need to be done in, i am assuming take the original and compare it to the modded one? i am guessing that it is not saving correctly because the file size varies when doing it in reverse, though you'd expect it to be the same :|. keep an eye out, i should have the files sent here soon, though GS is still not fully optimized, but he works, and that is all that matters on your end :D.

and sent... it should be in you mail now :D. i just hope i did it in the right order >_>. meh.. i think i did it backwards... i started with an unmodified one and compared it to a modded one... but either way will not patch, and comparing the original to a modded one (in that order) seems to have a larger file created than doing it the other way -_-
« Last Edit: 2009-09-15 18:23:46 by secondadvent »

nfitc1

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Re: Bring it on?
« Reply #12 on: 2009-09-15 18:09:49 »
and which order does it need to be done in, i am assuming take the original and compare it to the modded one? i am guessing that it is not saving correctly because the file size varies when doing it in reverse, though you'd expect it to be the same :|. keep an eye out, i should have the files sent here soon, though GS is still not fully optimized, but he works, and that is all that matters on your end :D.

Make your modifications and either create the patch based on an unmodified file. Or, in WM's case, you can choose to use the contents of the file you opened it to compare it to. File size shouldn't matter at all.

Proud Clod's changes operate under two assumptions: There are 256 scenes numbered 0-255, and each uncompressed scene is 7808 bytes in size. That's it.
WM has different assumptions, but should work too...

secondadvent

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Re: Bring it on?
« Reply #13 on: 2009-09-15 18:32:58 »
yeah... i will assume that i sent the files that would take a modified version of each and make it back into the original (if it was working for me :-P), so if you can find the problem with whatever is causing the files not to patch, then i will probably have to send the good files, comparing the modded to the unmodded, not the reverse  :lol:.

and also the fact that i forgot to update the scene data in the kernel with the one i sent you  :roll:

and a random question, the kernel is loaded every time you start up a save right? if so, then is the random list stored in the save file itself, because i am getting the exact same two battles in a row (with the same level enemies to boot), and even randomizing the kernel does not change the battles i get (the second battle is a back attack, so i know that getting the same back attack after four consecutive loads means it has to save something)?
« Last Edit: 2009-09-15 19:03:15 by secondadvent »

nfitc1

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Re: Bring it on?
« Reply #14 on: 2009-09-15 19:20:50 »
yeah... i will assume that i sent the files that would take a modified version of each and make it back into the original (if it was working for me :-P), so if you can find the problem with whatever is causing the files not to patch, then i will probably have to send the good files, comparing the modded to the unmodded, not the reverse  :lol:.

and also the fact that i forgot to update the scene data in the kernel with the one i sent you  :roll:

Huh? The changes file(s) should take unmodded data and make the modifications that you made...

and a random question, the kernel is loaded every time you start up a save right? if so, then is the random list stored in the save file itself, because i am getting the exact same two battles in a row (with the same level enemies to boot), and even randomizing the kernel does not change the battles i get (the second battle is a back attack, so i know that getting the same back attack after four consecutive loads means it has to save something)?

Yes, the kernel is loaded every time a game is loaded; No, the Random List in the KERNEL.BIN has no bearing on battles. That is for battle-related random-ness only. That's the list that will determine if a rare item is stolen or if a hit makes contact, etc. Why does it do this? Who knows? That's just the way it works. (Heh, I just confirmed this by setting it all to 200 and using Omnislash. Cloud only hit one out of three targets. :D But the real confirmation is that it did the exact same amount of damage each time.)

secondadvent

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Re: Bring it on?
« Reply #15 on: 2009-09-15 19:28:54 »
yeah... i will assume that i sent the files that would take a modified version of each and make it back into the original (if it was working for me :-P), so if you can find the problem with whatever is causing the files not to patch, then i will probably have to send the good files, comparing the modded to the unmodded, not the reverse  :lol:.

and also the fact that i forgot to update the scene data in the kernel with the one i sent you  :roll:

Huh? The changes file(s) should take unmodded data and make the modifications that you made...

i am talking about choosing which file is the base, and which one it is checked against (i.e. if you start with an unmodded file, choose the file to compare it to by clicking no, and choosing the modded file, it will be different from starting with a modded and comparing it to an unmodded, and comparing modded to unmodded is how it is supposed to be, the opposite of what i sent you :-)), all of this is confusing me, because i am not entirely with it today (three hours of sleep, with a horrid headache :|)... so i may not be thinking how i should be :-P.

meh... my enemies are a little overpowered for the start, unless you can keep ahold of a few ethers and maybe some potions -_-... i guess i will have to lower the cap i have set for stats for this area eventually :|

ok, well the test will have to wait, because after a through testing on my own, i can now say for sure that the current enemies are safer at levels around 20ish, because they start to balance out by that point and grow less each level, while with their high stat mods, it is dangerous at lower levels, which is where it is expected to be beaten at. i fought against my GS, after farming for ethers for about an hour (only managed to keep one max in my inventory before needing more mp), and having a few spare potions, i went up against him, only to run out of resources (sans PD's, which would not help since i came back with less than he could do to me) around half of his life... so yeah it needs to be lowered some. higher item drops would make it easier to stay alive, but with the enemies extremely strong, it would be better to just keep the item rates as is and lower the stats of the enemies :P.
« Last Edit: 2009-09-15 20:46:44 by secondadvent »

nfitc1

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Re: Bring it on?
« Reply #16 on: 2009-09-15 20:56:12 »
OK, I see what you're thinking, but no. You are comparing the changes you've made to either the file you originally opened or a different file. You need to select a "unmodded file" if you select "no". You've already made your changes, you don't even have to save them before you make the patch. The "Not valid PrC file" issue still stands, though as I made a stupid boo-boo by adding the "valid file CHECK" without adding the "valid file DATA". :oops:

After looking at the documentation I realized that I completely fudged on this. I left it all out entirely! Ooopsy. It should read something like this:

Quote
Create Changes Patch:
This new option allows you to save any changes you've made to your KERNEL.BIN/scene.bin. The resultant files will (should) be much smaller than the KERNEL.BIN/scene.bin and legal to distribute to other WM/PrC users without violating your EULA. When you select this item, you'll be given the option to use the file you originally loaded or a different file. If you choose to use the data in the file you originally loaded, it will ask you where to save the changes patch. If you choose to use a different file, select a file that does not contain the modifications you made to base your changes off of.

Example1: KERNEL.BIN was loaded and Cure2's data was changes to give it a power of 35 and renamed to "Cura". When "Create Changes Patch" is selected, WM will ask if I'd like to use the data I originally loaded as the "unmodified" data. If I say yes, a file will be created that WM will be able to use to change an unmodified KERNEL.BIN.

Esample2: PrC opened a scene.bin that already had a few changes in it that I have been working on. I have made several modifications to it and when I loaded it last it was heavily modified. Now I want to save my changes into a patch file for other users. I select "Create Changes Patch" and it will ask if I want to use the previously loaded data as a base. Since I've made several modifications already, saying "yes" to this question would only save the changes I've made in this session since I loaded the scene.bin. I choose "no" and it will ask me to show it a unmodified file to use as the base. This will save all the changes I have made since I started making modifications.

Apply Changes Patch:
This will allow you to load a changes file created by another instance of WM/PrC. After you open a KERNEL.BIN/scene.bin file and select this item, WM/PrC will then ask you which changes file to load. The changes file you selected will apply all changes you've made to your KERNEL.BIN/scene.bin to the one you currently have loaded. These patches can be stacked and the order will be significant.

Example: "Yiazmatisgod" made a KERNEL.BIN changes file that increases the strength of Phoenix Downs and nerfs Megalixers. "AKA-Billy" has decided to make a changes file that renames all items, attacks, materia, and descriptions to "Cheese". "Nobobshere" made a patch that does not allow sources to be used in the out-of-battle menu and has renamed them things like "Bleeding Heart" and "Fungal Brain Cancer". If you want to apply all of these then you should know what they modify. Since "AKA-Billy"'s mod renames everything and "Nobobshere" renamed a few things then you'll have to apply AKA-Billy's first if you want Nobobshere's new item names. Since Yiazmatisgod's changes don't interfere with either AKA-Billy's or Nobobshere's it can be applied at any time.

Applying them in this order:
1. Yiazmatisgod.WM
2. AKA-Billy.WM
3. Nobobshere.WM
will increase Phoenix Downs, nerf Megalixers, disallow sources and rename everything "Cheese" with the exception of the sources, which will have Nobobshere's names.

Applying them in THIS order, however:
1. Yiazmatisgod.WM
2. Nobobshere.WM
3. AKA-Billy.WM
will increase Phoenix Downs, nerf Megalixers, disallow sources and rename everything "Cheese" including the sources because the renaming to "Cheese" was applied after the sources were re-named.


If that's not clear, let me know.
« Last Edit: 2009-09-15 20:57:58 by NFITC1 »

secondadvent

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Re: Bring it on?
« Reply #17 on: 2009-09-15 21:07:00 »
nope, that is a perfectly good explanation :-P. i sort of thought that is what you meant after the last post, but i am used to makeppf, which uses the unmodified as a base, and then compares that to a modded one, and if you do it the same as yours, it creates the reverse, a patch to make the modded become the original, so easy mistake for me to make  :-). anyway, it will be a bit, since i have to rebalance the enemies (not too too long to do that, but i also have to cook and such :P), and fix a minor bug in mono drives AI, and then it REALLY should be ready for you  :roll:.

nfitc1

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Re: Bring it on?
« Reply #18 on: 2009-09-15 21:56:43 »
nope, that is a perfectly good explanation :-P. i sort of thought that is what you meant after the last post, but i am used to makeppf, which uses the unmodified as a base, and then compares that to a modded one, and if you do it the same as yours, it creates the reverse, a patch to make the modded become the original, so easy mistake for me to make  :-). anyway, it will be a bit, since i have to rebalance the enemies (not too too long to do that, but i also have to cook and such :P), and fix a minor bug in mono drives AI, and then it REALLY should be ready for you  :roll:.

YOUR posts are getting harder and harder to understand. I'm not sure if you understand or not.... :?
This creates a patch to turn an unmodified one into a modified one, using a unmodded one as a base.

secondadvent

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Re: Bring it on?
« Reply #19 on: 2009-09-15 22:49:55 »
i understood it since about the post before my last post, your big tutorial post makes it hard NOT to understand  :wink:.

i  know i can be hard to understand sometimes (maybe more than sometimes :-P), but i even confused myself with most of my above posts, but i do understand it all, just ignore my confusion now  :lol:.

well, i found a nice "normal" difficulty, which i was able to clear with no real problem, my original would be like the "very hard", so that means i have to find a good balance for the version i want to be making right now, the "hard" mode. i would send you the normal mode, but it is too easy, and i know you want them to put up a fight :-P.
« Last Edit: 2009-09-16 01:49:36 by secondadvent »

nfitc1

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Re: Bring it on?
« Reply #20 on: 2009-09-16 16:05:08 »
This is getting slightly off topic, but it's good that I know what's wrong with WM and PrC.

I've identified and fixed the errors in creating and loading changes patches (until someone else breaks them) and will upload it shortly once I add the above quote to their documentations.
I've also added a minor graphical new "feature" to PrC. You can now resize the AI box! I've been meaning to do this since I made this window sizable, but didn't know how to do it. I've also made it maximize-ible. The vertical resizing of the AI box itself is a little slow when using maximize; But maxing, restoring, and maxing again should solve that. :)

But the MOST exciting news is that AI scripts now take a fraction of the time to load than they did. Even the dreaded Eligor Main block takes less than two seconds to load and even LESS time to disassemble!! No more of this "be patient" garbage in the documentations. Yeah, I'm awesome like that. ;) (taught me a lesson of things NOT to do, let me tell ya :( )

secondadvent

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Re: Bring it on?
« Reply #21 on: 2009-09-17 00:52:07 »
[off topic]
well... i hate to do it again, but there is still some problems with the patch creating thing in both PrC and WM, WM's will successfully patch, but choosing yes or no to the include text changes results in the same exact patch being made, that does not include text changes, and PrC creates the patch, but it still says it is not a valid PrC file, both are using the recently upped versions from today :|. [/off topic]

anyway, my enemies are alright now, it didn't take an extreme amount of effort to kill them, and it shouldn't, since they are the starting enemies, and no shops are available (though the enemies coming next will be allowed to be stronger, with three members and a shop/limitless ethers for gil in the train graveyard before heading to the next destination, but will still be somewhat reasonable  :wink:). if you want i can send you the WM file, though it will not have my name changes (renamed a good many to fit with the newer FF magic names, though i know one to probably be wrong since i never used the spell in VII  :lol:), and a ppf patch for the scene, which can be patched with a program i can send you as well, and all that would not be present would be the renamed magics/item descriptions.

Quote
I've identified and fixed the errors in creating and loading changes patches (until someone else breaks them)

i didnt break them... they broke themselves  8-)

and the new loading time of the scripts is VERY nice... i havent tried the maximizing yet, because i normally work with multiple opened PrC's anyway, to compare multiple AI at once, but it should also be very nice as well  :wink:
« Last Edit: 2009-09-17 00:59:31 by secondadvent »

nfitc1

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Re: Bring it on?
« Reply #22 on: 2009-09-17 01:30:00 »
It depends on WHEN you dled them. I uploaded new ones a few hours ago, but they're broken in other ways. :(

If you've got the one that loads the scripts fast you'll know what I mean. Putting the AI edit box in a panel really screwed something up. I'm at a loss at the moment to know why.

You should send me all non-working patches files so I can see where they fail and why.

secondadvent

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Re: Bring it on?
« Reply #23 on: 2009-09-17 01:42:40 »
will do, i will send the ones i just made, which is using the one upped a few hours ago, keep an eye out for them.

titeguy3

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Re: Bring it on?
« Reply #24 on: 2009-09-17 04:32:21 »
Great job improving your Big O, NFITC1!

Here's my FF7Remastered Patch, in case you want to play it. Good challenges would be the turks, ultimate weapon, and Sepher Sephiroth, although most bosses in the game have been made at least a little bit more difficult.

WM patch
PrC patch