Author Topic: SteamOS, Steam Machines, Steam Controller (Read 14648 times)

Covarr · « **on:** 2013-09-23 18:06:17 »

So Valve is making an OS, based on Linux and Big Picture mode. What do y'all think about this?

Edit: Proto hardware!

Edit: Steam Controller!

nfitc1 · « **Reply #1 on:** 2013-09-23 18:21:32 »

Steam-based console? I wouldn't buy it.

Covarr · « **Reply #2 on:** 2013-09-23 18:32:22 »

Steam-based Linux OS. They'll probably make a console also, but it can just as readily be installed on a standard PC as a dual boot or whatever. They're probably going to announce an actual Steam box later this week, though.

I do think if they can pick up the right exclusives, and charge the right price, a Steam console could easily compete with the Xbox One and PlayStation 4. I probably wouldn't give up my gaming PC for it, but I could definitely see myself spending $400 on a game console that has true cross-platform compatibility and a shared games list with all my PC friends.

LeonhartGR · « **Reply #3 on:** 2013-09-23 22:19:09 »

Quote from: The Great Covarrtsby on 2013-09-23 18:32:22

...true cross-platform compatibility and a shared games list with all my PC friends.

With that said... count me in.

Rundas · « **Reply #4 on:** 2013-09-23 23:37:05 »

I assume this is what they will run on the Steam Box. Although I won't be buying one of those.

Covarr · « **Reply #5 on:** 2013-09-25 17:11:38 »

So they're having a limited hardware beta. You guys shouldn't enter, so that I will have a better chance.

Tenko Kuugen · « **Reply #6 on:** 2013-09-26 08:34:20 »

I managed to talk 317 people into entering.

Covarr · « **Reply #7 on:** 2013-09-27 17:51:52 »

So VALV^E just went and announced their own controller, completing their week of living room stuff. I really don't know what to make of this:

No D-Pad, no thumbsticks, no standard face buttons... everything has been mapped to these bizarre haptic stuff. I'm worried Valve might be a little to "innovative" for their own good here.

I'm not gonna declare it awful without trying it, but I'm certainly not convinced this is the future of gamepads.

dkma841 · « **Reply #8 on:** 2013-09-27 18:49:00 »

What the.. first thing that came to mind was a cassete player

Tenko Kuugen · « **Reply #9 on:** 2013-09-27 22:07:56 »

I'm declaring it awful
simply because there is a good reason controllers have traditionally had 2-8 buttons and an analog pad FOR GOOD REASONS

Rundas · « **Reply #10 on:** 2013-09-27 22:22:09 »

Valve being the least shitty videogame related company at the moment, I'm sure they'll have another more traditional version at some point.

ChaosControl · « **Reply #11 on:** 2013-09-29 00:02:24 »

This will only ever work if this will be complemented with a hypervisor that'll allow people to run Windows only games. 80% of my Steam library are Windows games.

Running Windows inside a VM will reduce performance greatly though, maybe they fixed it somehow. It'll still cost a Windows license and seeing as SteamOS is free I wouldnt bet on it.

Covarr · « **Reply #12 on:** 2013-09-29 05:18:16 »

Their current solution is to stream it from a Windows PC with Steam installed. Goodish solution if you buy a separate Steam box, not a good solution for dual boots.

saftle · « **Reply #13 on:** 2013-09-29 13:02:32 »

The controller isn't what you guys are expecting. I was thinking the same thing and was pretty disappointed that it would pretty much kill being able to play older console games.

However, the more research I did, and the more interviews I read about indie devs trying out the controller, the more I realized I was wrong at how amazing this actually is.

They aren't track pads, they are haptic pads. Basically it uses electrostatic to trick your fingers into thinking you're actually feeling a different surface, curve, bump, whatever. It can even fake your fingers into thinking it's a moving trackball. So if you spin it, it moves and slowly slows down, even though when you look at it, it's just a pad.

Basically, you can program any menu, any game, or whatever to have a different layout and expect a different movement. So you can create a Super Nintendo button layout, Gamecube layout, etc, and have it expect you to press down on specific locations while those locations feel like buttons that are expecting a push action.

I hope that it is as good as it sounds because it's one of those things that you just have to try to understand. Here is a video demonstrating the same technology on a flat screen tablet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiCqlYKRlAA&list=HL1380310319

luksy · « **Reply #14 on:** 2013-09-29 13:12:43 »

I'm genuinely interested in this, using a kb + mouse on the sofa gives my right hand cramps after a while, normal pads are useless for games like Civ V so I really hope this is an improvement.

Quote

They aren't track pads, they are haptic pads. Basically it uses electrostatic to trick your fingers into thinking you're actually feeling a different surface, curve, bump, whatever. It can even fake your fingers into thinking it's a moving trackball. So if you spin it, it moves and slowly slows down, even though when you look at it, it's just a pad.

As I understand it the pad still uses motors to deliver the feedback, which isn't the same technology in the video you linked

Quote

The Steam Controller is built around a new generation of super-precise haptic feedback, employing dual linear resonant actuators. These small, strong, weighted electro-magnets are attached to each of the dual trackpads.

http://www.precisionmicrodrives.com/application-notes-technical-guides/application-bulletins/ab-020-understanding-linear-resonant-actuator-characteristics

saftle · « **Reply #15 on:** 2013-09-29 13:24:48 »

Here is the interview with one of the developers for Super Meat Boy. He tried it using the right trackpad as just one big button for Super Meat Boy, and then played Spelunky and used the 360 controller layout. http://tommyrefenes.tumblr.com/post/62476523677/my-time-with-the-steam-controller

Yeah using a controller for FPS and strategy games that is actually good will be a breath of fresh air.

Rundas · « **Reply #16 on:** 2013-09-29 16:34:40 »

I know it's all personal preference, but why would you want to use a controller for fps or strategy?

saftle · « **Reply #17 on:** 2013-09-29 16:48:25 »

Well, personally my GF would rather me game in the living room than me being cooped up in my office and second there is a bit of nostalgia to living room gaming.

Lastly, I want other console manufacturers to miserably fail. There was once a time for proprietary closed consoles, but that time has ended.

Edit: Bridging the gap would be also amazing. No longer being dependent on specific hardware when wanting to play a Mario game, Final Fantasy, Halo, etc.

Luceid · « **Reply #18 on:** 2013-09-29 20:38:34 »

What I don't understand: Steam Box (singular) was supposed to be a kind of console.
Now there will be a dozen or so Steam Boxes?

I doubt this concept will be working without *standardized* hardware.

LeonhartGR · « **Reply #19 on:** 2013-10-01 00:00:07 »

ValveTime Spotlight: TF2 On The "Omni" Directional Treadmill at EGX 2013

luksy · « **Reply #20 on:** 2013-10-01 07:22:07 »

Quote from: Luceid on 2013-09-29 20:38:34

What I don't understand: Steam Box (singular) was supposed to be a kind of console.
Now there will be a dozen or so Steam Boxes?

I doubt this concept will be working without *standardized* hardware.

A flexible performance standard is better than NO standard, which is the current system as far as PC development is concerned. If Valve can create something akin to Windows Experience Index (one that actually gives meaningful results) it'll be a win-win for consumers and developers.

It's the only way to expand their market to less tech-savvy users (or those who can no longer be bothered to invest hours in comparing specs like me) and still keep the boxes modular to target different price points.

yarLson · « **Reply #21 on:** 2013-10-02 06:04:43 »

I will stick to my own builds, will try the controller but it could go either way on that.

Most excited about what SteamOS might do for the linux graphics drivers and the kernel in general if it is a huge success. I hope they launch with built in EGL support (which they probably won't since neither AMD or NVIDIA support it yet and I doubt they will use mesa since it is so far behind performance wise). If so though they would completely OWN Windows on performance and latency right out of the gate thanks to being able to bypass a display server entirely and render directly to the framebuffer right from the kernel. Plus it is better for developers to have access to the entire system to fix a bug rather than code half asked hacks or wait around for the owner or some proprietary driver to fix it (which most often never happens).

For software and game performance (particularly for competive games where latencies is the BIGGEST issue), this could be a huge win for games, software in general and developers everywhere. But it could also crash and burn. Valve is putting up quite a fight though. Most people don't know/care enough to be able to understand the huge drawback of proprietary operating systems like Windows even for the end user. A lot of enthusiasts probably wouldn't bother spending so much money on custom rigs if they knew that their Windows drivers were using incredibly inefficient workaround pipeline magic hackery (can't think of anything better to call it) that destroys latency and performance and makes developement a pain in the ass. I am not really a linux fanboy as much as I am a hater of inefficiency, and closed software is just that; inefficient, and anything built on top of it will suffer for it, even if we are so used to it we don't notice or care. Some projects might be better as closed source but as an operating system the idea is really rather absurd and NEVER would even exist if not for massive public ignorance.

My hope is that SteamOS will make this glaringly apparent once and for all and I hope Valve recognizes this as the most important aspect of the whole damn campaign (since it really is). After all the public is brutal, and won't accept anything new unless it brings something major to the table. Nothing is more major to a gamer than better performance and latency. Nothing is more major to a dev than to be able to produce better code in less time with easier bug fixes. People will not want Windows if they get 15-20 more fps plus better responsiveness in their favorite game on SteamOS. They could either change to free SteamOS (which will run on most all hardware thanks to the kernel) or buy another $600 graphics card and hope it helps, which one do you think they'll do first?

There are a lot of Windows fanboys out there but as far as the facts go it is inefficient, buggy, unprofessional and unfixable thanks to its closed nature. Linux, or another open system like it IS the future, but I am just hoping we don't have to wait another decade to see it. SteamOS is our best chance for that. A lot of people (who don't understand everything I just said) are already saying "what's the point" but people with such underdeveloped opinions can usually be easily swayed one way or the other so it is up in the air at this point. I for one have already abandoned Windows completely and will probably dual boot Arch Linux and SteamOS for a while until I get a feel for it and decide if I want to make it my main system.

xLostWingx · « **Reply #22 on:** 2013-10-03 05:03:29 »

Still no talk of this in mainstream discussions afaik. Qhimm is literally the only place that I've seen mention of this. Then again I'm not a steam user, but how popular is steam? (not being an ass, I actually don't know). Then again, I only play a handful of PC games post- ps2/xbox/gamecube gen. And I can most often be found playing ps1 games and android games. So...I guess I come from a narrow demographic?

yarLson · « **Reply #23 on:** 2013-10-03 05:41:56 »

last I check Steam had over 50,000,000 users. Who knows how many actually use it on a regular basis. Its big picture mode is much less popular with about half a million users and its linux users makes up for less than 1% of its userbase, so they definitely have an uphill battle here. But they have enough influence to make it at least within the realm of posibility. The abomination of closed systems and in general crappy non sharing, secret keeping mindsets needs to fucking end already. God knows when it actually will. Talk about a narrow demographic...

Rundas · « **Reply #24 on:** 2013-10-03 16:35:02 »

Valve is a fucking goliath, people will definitely have interest.