Author Topic: [FF7PC-98] The Reunion (OLD THREAD, SAVED FOR POSTERITY) (Read 1265349 times)

Template · « **Reply #1725 on:** 2013-07-02 12:24:42 »

Quote from: Yarow12 on 2013-07-02 08:21:41

[things] that could have been a simple attempt by translator(s)/developers at being subtle

I really think this sort of gets at the heart of why I couldn't "feel" the Retranslation when I tried it. It was like the dialogue, though technically fixed in a ton of places (which is good), had also been robbed of a good deal of its spontaneity and charm. Many of the changes seem unnecessary to me. People rarely speak in grammatically proper forms if they have not prepared for the situation. I really almost enjoy the obvious mistranslations beacause they make the game more HUMAN.

The emphatic weirdness, ambiguity, animism and reverence towards all things "cute" are what made the entire ff series so enjoyable for me; so far, the Retranslation seems to resist these things, imo. I've seen too little of it to be so general, and I've been rude to Dan in the past so I really hope he won't take my criticism as hostility; I'm actually a big fan of his now, but nobody is perfect and no translation is perfect...

I'm going to play it with the translation on and I won't be surprised if I change my mind about it afterwards. I'm super impressed at what you've done with this one Dan, I kinda wasn't sure you'd be able to finish it when you started, considering how many other millions of things you also did during this period... I wish I could do what you can with the 0s and 1s buddy. If I had the dedication and focus I would love to try my hand at fixing the dialogue myself, using your translation as a guide. Not just to fix the big gaping problems like everyone's beloved Scorpion battle confusing warning--don't you think that might have been a deliberate tactic for the game to mess with you? That's something they got really into later... But yeah, also I would want to try to preserve the original style and feel of the dialogue, wherever possible, as an option.

There's something good about being mystified sometimes (like the movie Akira, right? What the hell is going on there... nvm I don't want to hear it I'll watch it again next year) and I'll admit to being pretty confused by ff7 the first time I played it, but it wasn't really because it was badly translated. It was Japanese and weird--like Akira, like Lost in Translation. Wtf just happened? Idk, I'm not Japanese. But let's do it again.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1726 on:** 2013-07-02 13:04:01 »

Remember that the localisation that's currently in the installer is grossly out of date, and nowhere near finished

It is currently having its second revision now, then it needs some other people to go through it, before finally the input of 1 additional Japanese proof reader. So a lot has already changed, and will continue to

I agree that some of the charm of the original has been lost due to nostalgia for the old lines and ambiguity, but the gains that have been made far outweigh that. Remember also that the Japanese writers intended the story this way, and where they desired ambiguity, I have left ambiguity.

As for the scorpion battle, it is definitely an error in translation. Even if you don't know Japanese and think about it logically, Barrett would not be telling Cloud to attack while the tail's up. Not if he values his own life, at any rate.

Template · « **Reply #1727 on:** 2013-07-02 13:40:03 »

Man, sincerely, that was a really good response. I am way more excited about the Retranslation part of The Reunion than I expected to be...

I know you know this but in that opening boss fight it's Cloud talking to Barret! I'm sure of that, Cloud just shouts Barret's name so it almost looks like it's Barret talking. I am almost positive you are completely correct and it is purely a mistranslation. But Barret is not the brightest guy in the world (we know this because it takes him a while to follow the group on where to go next sometimes... and yet he wants to be leader) and I could just see the scene as if it were in a movie where Cloud is yelling to Barret because there's a crap ton of mechanical noise and it's hard to hear, "Be careful! Attack with it's tail up and it's gonna use it's laser" but between the words "up" and "and" Barret shoots the thing without thinking too much, and BAM. I think it's funny. I always did. It seemed like they did it to me on purpose... and even if not, that's just another quirky thing I like about this old badly translated game: the unintended sillyness. Involuntary slapstick, if you will.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1728 on:** 2013-07-02 13:41:47 »

Well, that's always going to be there... you can always play the original game. Same with the old borders, the old nostalgic feel of the menu, old lego models... I mean all of it is still there if you want to play it that way. So nothing is lost, but much is gained.

Template · « **Reply #1729 on:** 2013-07-02 13:56:34 »

Yah, I hear you 100%. I wouldn't and didn't (for like 10 years) play the game because their port was so buggy. I much prefer to use your mods, thanks! I guess if I didn't know better my request would just be an option for a super dumbed-down version of the Retranslation that only fixed the obvious mistakes and mistranslations in the script and nothing else. But I know how much of a pain in the ass it would be, and I know you won't do it, and I know it's not just because its me that would be asking lol, so I wont.

I'm grateful for the work you've done.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1730 on:** 2013-07-02 16:16:20 »

I need a graphic designer, or someone who can find me decent graphics. What I need is the buttons of the playstation control pad so that in dialogue I don't need to use Press [X] (which is what I am doing with the playstation option)

FFX would be a good place to look to see how they did it. I would probably need a graphic for X Triangle Square Circle R1 R2 L1 L2 Select and Start. If someone can get me these to a professional standard like FFX, I will add them to the main font.

Hellbringer616 · « **Reply #1731 on:** 2013-07-02 16:33:25 »

Quote from: DLPB on 2013-07-02 16:16:20

I need a graphic designer, or someone who can find me decent graphics. What I need is the buttons of the playstation control pad so that in dialogue I don't need to use Press [X] (which is what I am doing with the playstation option)

FFX would be a good place to look to see how they did it. I would probably need a graphic for X Triangle Square Circle R1 R2 L1 L2 Select and Start. If someone can get me these to a professional standard like FFX, I will add them to the main font.

I have access to the buttons that i have permission to use for another project i'm working on, Let me ask them if it's okay to use it here.

It is however missing they L1 button (since gamecube only has z)

Rundas · « **Reply #1732 on:** 2013-07-02 16:35:24 »

Some shitty ass Mad Catz gamecube controllers had an m button above left trigger :p

knightsoftheround · « **Reply #1733 on:** 2013-07-02 16:35:55 »

Quote from: DLPB on 2013-07-02 13:41:47

Well, that's always going to be there... you can always play the original game. Same with the old borders, the old nostalgic feel of the menu, old lego models... I mean all of it is still there if you want to play it that way. So nothing is lost, but much is gained.

This is why the rabidness against the mod (not you Template, at least from what I've seen and if it was you you're obviously better about it now so it doesn't matter!) confuses me. It's not like it's changing anything. Luksy said ages ago that 'it's a mod and changes nothing' (paraphrased) and that has always amused me.

Even if it WAS shit (which it sure ain't), it doesn't effect anything. XD

Covarr · « **Reply #1734 on:** 2013-07-02 18:47:27 »

Stop it. Both of you. ~Covarr

edit: To be clear, this was in reference to Template and DLPB's little argument.

Edit 2: "Stop it" doesn't mean keep going. One more post from either of you on this matter will result in a 40% warning and temporarily revoked posting privileges. ~Covarr

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1735 on:** 2013-07-02 19:24:55 »

I am currently going through all maps again as you know, but I've also decided to log the worst of the mistakes. I'll pop them up here at the end. Should take 2 or 3 days to finish this

knightsoftheround · « **Reply #1736 on:** 2013-07-02 20:08:17 »

Quote from: DLPB on 2013-07-02 19:24:55

I am currently going through all maps again as you know, but I've also decided to log the worst of the mistakes. I'll pop them up here at the end. Should take 2 or 3 days to finish this

By 'finish this' do you mean first release or just logging the worst of the mistakes?

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1737 on:** 2013-07-02 20:15:00 »

this is the second revision

Then I have to wait for Prince Lex to do the Scottish dialect. After that, I have to go through entire game, that's the third revision. After that it will be ready for release, but won't be "finished" officially until it has had other people proof check it, and another Japanese speaker run through it.

Rundas · « **Reply #1738 on:** 2013-07-02 20:16:43 »

Compared to waiting for three years, that's a relatively short time away

knightsoftheround · « **Reply #1739 on:** 2013-07-02 20:21:25 »

Ooh, okay. Can't wait to see the comparisons, then! I've honestly always loved reading comparisons of those types!

And totally agreed, Clever. XD

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1740 on:** 2013-07-03 02:58:13 »

A few from today.

Old then new.

Code: [Select]

{CLOUD}
“I couldn't finish 'em.
	This is gonna get complicated.”

{CLOUD}
“I couldn't finish him off.
	This is gonna get complicated.”

Code: [Select]

{BARRET}
“Shoulda noticed it earlier, you…”

{BARRET}
“It's too late for you.”

Code: [Select]

{CLOUD}
“This is the first time I've actually ever seen him.
	So…that's what he looks like…”

{CLOUD}
“It's the first time I've
	actually seen him.
	So… that's who…”

Code: [Select]

“Someone has switched the machine
	over to mainframe operation!”{NEW}
“We can't operate it from here.”

Reeve
“Somebody has overridden
	the mainframe controls!”{NEW}
“We can't operate it from here.”

Code: [Select]

Heidegger
“The Peace Preservation force
	will do their best
	to beat the enemy!”

Heidegger
“Public Order's combined
	forces will repel the enemy!”

Code: [Select]

“{AERIS}?
	How did you know that name?
	You must be…”{NEW}
“{AERIS},
	you mean that kid.
	The receptionist? I was
	startin' to worry about her, too.”{NEW}
“And so another rival
	appears on the scene, eh?”{NEW}
“You mean, she's not?
	It's someone else?”


“{AERIS}?
	If you know about that,
	you must be…!?”{NEW}
“{AERIS} is that girl,right?
	The one who was at reception?
	Thing is,I've kinda taken to her myself.”{NEW}
“So I guess you're the rival
	making his appearance,eh…?”{NEW}
“Huh,it WASN'T her you meant?
	…Well,never mind then.”

Code: [Select]

In my veins courses the blood of the Ancients.
I am one of the rightful heirs to this planet!

The blood of the Ancients flows within me.
 I am the rightful heir to this planet!

Code: [Select]

Am I…human?
------------------------------
I didn't really understand
what Sephiroth meant then.
------------------------------
I was even more surprised that
Shinra was producing monsters.
------------------------------

‘Am I… no different?’
------------------------------
I didn't understand
his words at the time.
------------------------------
More than anything,I was
shocked that Shin-Ra
were creating monsters.

Template · « **Reply #1741 on:** 2013-07-03 06:09:12 »

Quote from: DLPB on 2013-07-03 02:58:13

Code: [Select]
{CLOUD} “I couldn't finish 'em. This is gonna get complicated.” {CLOUD} “I couldn't finish him off. This is gonna get complicated.”

Perfect example of how your translation could be called a sterilization. Was no purpose to the change you made, other than to make Cloud sound less authentic. You aren't even consistent about it... You change "''em", I guess because phonetic abbreviations bother you? But you leave "gonna". 'Em isn't necessarily just for "them" it's also the way it sounds when you leave the h off him because you're in a hurry while you are speaking.

knightsoftheround · « **Reply #1742 on:** 2013-07-03 12:21:19 »

Dan, I was thinking about it and I might actually be able to do those button images for you. If you could give me the dimensions you'd want for the raw files, whether or not you'd want it vector, the final file type*, and maybe examples of the nice ones used in Final Fantasy X I could definitely give it a shot! That's a lot of info so over PM would be fine if you'd prefer.

*It would have to be an image filetype, so if there's an extra step to convert it I wouldn't be able to do it. I have Photoshop and Sai as well as access to Inkscape though so I can do pretty much any image filetype.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1743 on:** 2013-07-03 12:51:30 »

128*128 would do. I can resize myself

I'll see whose is best between you and hellbringer and use those!

I don't have anything to start you with though..

knightsoftheround · « **Reply #1744 on:** 2013-07-03 14:17:41 »

I'm actually almost done with the shape buttons, but I can't seem to find your original post on this so could you remind me what other buttons you needed?

And I can edit these as much as you like so you're happy with them, as well. ^_^

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1745 on:** 2013-07-03 14:28:45 »

All of them

To look like the playstation counterparts.

X, Triangle, Circle, Square, L1, L2, R1, R2, Select, Start.

The L1, L2, R1, R2 will probably need writing on top of the graphic. Select and start may need to also. How did the original PSX game deal with these?

knightsoftheround · « **Reply #1746 on:** 2013-07-03 14:41:47 »

I do believe the cases of the 'writing' buttons I've seen just included the writing as part of the graphic. In any case, I've got the shape buttons done and I'd like to see what you think before I continue this method with the others. I've thrown the png versions up on photobucket so you can look at them:

http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx112/mugenginga/PSXCircleButton.png
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx112/mugenginga/PSXTriangleButtonV2.png
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx112/mugenginga/PSXSquareButton.png
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx112/mugenginga/PSXXButton.png

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1747 on:** 2013-07-03 16:16:08 »

They aren't bad at all. Show me a R1

nfitc1 · « **Reply #1748 on:** 2013-07-03 16:52:06 »

Quote

More than anything,I was
shocked that Shin-Ra
were creating monsters.

Shin-Ra in this context is singular so "was" is appropriate. Otherwise it makes Shin-Ra sound like a race (e.g. the Cetra).

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1749 on:** 2013-07-03 16:54:17 »

You're right... but people don't always speak properly. That's part of the problem I have here. Do I always go with perfect grammar in speech?

I suppose in a case like that I have to? Yeah I can't really see a need to keep were there.