[FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods and Modding Framework-The Reunion [R06f]

[DLPB_]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DUjmyW94zcYoX7gIW5yAT4giTPeNmCR4TCaHAiXOLlU/edit?usp=sharing

Almost completed new tab 'Game Text'. 

[the_randomizer85]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DUjmyW94zcYoX7gIW5yAT4giTPeNmCR4TCaHAiXOLlU/edit?usp=sharing

Almost completed new tab 'Game Text'. 

That is um, very extensive and impressive O.O


I enjoy reading the Japanese too

[Psiloc]

Hi there, just looking through the Reunion database and notice that the Orthopedic Underwear section is up for debate.

Since "The writers were trying to convey that the underwear Cloud finds is more adult than you would expect for Tifa at that age", I do have some suggestions:

• If the idea is that the underwear is for older people in an extremely unsexy way, in Britain at least we call these "granny pants/panties". It means large, visually unappealing but presumably practical underwear. The term is slightly rude - you wouldn't want to be accused of wearing them. I think they'd be sold in shops as "maxi briefs".
• Slightly down the scale (something a middle-aged-woman might wear?) is "high-waisted knickers/briefs". I'm sure you can get nice varieties... but they're still high-waisted. Not many young women would wear them
• Probably least humiliating might be "french knickers" (apparently Americans call these "tap pants"). They come in various designs, some more appealing than others, but they're out of fashion and sort of boxer-short sized.

It really depends on whether you want to convey that the underwear is embarrassing for Tifa because of the style of underwear, and to what extreme. Anyway, I thought I'd offer some suggestions.

...What a weird first post this was.

[DLPB_]

This has been debated further in recent times.  The idea is it's more adult than would be expected for her age.

"Lit. Grown-up underwear
[The writers were trying to convey that the underwear
Cloud finds is more adult than you would expect for
Tifa at that age.]"

From The Reunion Database.

Frilly Knickers
Fancy Underwear

[This is under consideration.]

Whatever is used has to give across the understanding that these are more adult. Frilly Underwear kind of works.  It can't be too ridiculous, or too obvious, or too subtle.

The high waist isn't a bad idea.  French cannot be used as this is FF7 world and not Earth.  While language can be real earth types, their names cannot.  So Cait can speak Scottish dialect, but you could never refer to it as such in-game.

[DLPB_]

DLPBToday at 9:01 PM
@Chapybara

ご案内    Goanni    "[A call to a ship.
To guide from danger.]"    Guidance

Is this more "Signal" ?  I'm thinking if there is any real world nautical terminology we're missing here
Hmm maybe it's meant to be "Guide" to give you a clue about Guide Book
Yes... that's exactly it
And "Guide" is correct terminology "A guide".
I've answered my own question

Uprisen also mentions guide ships.  So that's the reason this move exists. It makes sense now - it's to give you a clue that the monster has the Guide Book.

[Ver Greeneyes]

Regarding the underwear thing, that's a fairly common trope in anime - girls in a high school setting are expected to wear plain panties, but then there's one girl who wears something unexpectedly risque, like frilly black or red panties ("adult lingerie"). In this case, I guess she doesn't necessarily wear it to school but she has some at home. Maybe it's more surprising because she's a bit of a tomboy by this time.

[SavenP]

How do you fast forward? I accidentally did it and now it's back to original speed when I restarted game.

[Cert Serth]

I can't quite remember if it was mentioned in this thread or elsewhere, but will R06 include a fix for the swapped light/shadows on character models?

[DLPB_]

It won't - because I failed   I managed to find places that change it - but I wasn't able to fix. It would need someone who understands graphics.  And we'd need to know exactly what is going wrong- as in mathematically.  One way to get around it I suppose could be to disable it entirely and have shaded models.  But Kaldarasha believes this will only look worse.

[Wiseman]

How do you fast forward? I accidentally did it and now it's back to original speed when I restarted game.

I believe you're referring to the speed up function in battles, but Square didn't include that in the Steam version or the 1998 version. Only their own site and the modern console ports have that. There is a trainer called Ochuu around this site that will do that, but I think it has no hotkeys. Neither does The Reunion.

[Kaldarasha]

Oh, R05 has hotkeys to control the speed.

[Wiseman]

Oh, R05 has hotkeys to control the speed.

Now that I re-read the readme files, I was impressed. I never once used this feature. 

[Headbomb]

Hey, first time using The Reunion. Or doing much of any extensive modding on FFVII.

I'm running into two issues. The first is that the text in windows is often... misaligned. You'll have something like

Hello, my name is Bob Fugeldorm
,
and I am a nice man.

Instead of

Hello, my name is Bob Fugeldorm,
and I am a nice man.

It always seems off by one character, punctuation especially. In-game example

https://i.gyazo.com/6c27cb885354a501a29f2474159775a7.jpg


The second is that the game simply cannot progress when you're in the train on the way to the Mako 5 reactor. Specifically, the game cease interacting (it still runs, but it doesn't respond to any input anymore) when Barrett says

Barret
"Alright, in three minutes
we're jumpin' off this train..."

For the blocker, my solution was to uninstall Reunion and re-install it after the next save point. I'd take a screenshot, but FFVII doesn't behave well enough for that to be possible apparently.

[DLPB_]

The box sizes there are caused by incompatibility of mods you have installed.  When using R05 (or 6) the installation autosizes.  If any other mod is installed that affects font spacing, you'll get that issue.  It doesn't exist as far as I'm aware with a normal install (7th Heaven is not a normal install).

Additionally, a lot more work is needed on grammar - which will be finalized with R07.

[Headbomb]

I followed the steps from here (steam version):

https://captrobau.blogspot.com/p/install-guide-ff7-mod-manager.html

The only mods I have are the ERSGAN background mod and the 7th heaven mod manager. It could be that the transparent dialog box from 7th heaven causes issues, it's just weird that it doesn't do that on its own.

[Kaldarasha]

If you use the menu overhaul in 7th Heaven you  can't use the Reunion. MO needs an older version of the reunion mod which use a smaller font and has therefore also smaller windows. Maybe you have also the steam version on your PC than you can copy window.bin and replace with it the models window.bin of your moded game.

[grifmoney]

Regarding the underwear thing, that's a fairly common trope in anime - girls in a high school setting are expected to wear plain panties, but then there's one girl who wears something unexpectedly risque, like frilly black or red panties ("adult lingerie"). In this case, I guess she doesn't necessarily wear it to school but she has some at home. Maybe it's more surprising because she's a bit of a tomboy by this time.

Seconding this interpretation. My vote is for Risqué Panties (or Risque Panties). Tifa is... a bit sexually repressed, and she's 16 at the time, so I think it's more likely she'd have this kind of secret rather than being embarrassed by "Frilly Knickers" or "Fancy Underwear".

Edit: Sorry if this is backseat translation but I did some digging -- according to the JP text dump the line is:

Code: [Select]

『ちょっと背のびパンツ』を手にいれた！
( chotto se nobi pantsu ) wo teni ireta !This can be translated various ways.
ちょっと: Small, little, or "a bit".
背: Back/spine, sometimes disobey/rebel.
のび: Grow, stretching, extending.
背のび: Overstretching oneself, stretching your back to make yourself seem taller.

I like the reading that the panties were "a little 背のび", implying (Cloud thought/suggested) that Tifa was trying a little too hard to seem grown-up. In this light, my suggestion of "Risqué Panties" doesn't really work, especially considering the International Version graphic is anything but risqué, but I also don't think "Frilly Knickers" captures the meaning either. The scene is being told through Cloud's perspective and, well, intended to embarrass Tifa, so it's pretty important to the joke to directly portray his thought that they were age-inappropriate (also because Cloud is a bit of a dork). "Adult Panties" might work, "Grown-Up Panties" might work better (because only children say "grown-up"). "Fancy Underwear" is definitely pretty good, because coming from a guy, a thing being "fancy" has a sort of judgmental tone (e.g. "Tifa thinks these 'fancy' panties will make her seem more grown-up").

[opengrip]

This has probably been asked a lot and I don't mean to come off the wrong way but in all seriousness why not make this mod 100% compatible with 7th heaven? "Most" people absolutely want to use both and you are only hurting the success of this amazing translation by not having its recent updates be compatible with the most popular mod manager. You have options for translations and lots of other stuff is optional in your installer (models, 60fps etc). How hard would it be to have a 7th heaven option which adjusts things to be more compatible? That or why not work with EQ2Alyza more to let him update the 7th heaven catalog with recent options from this mod/more updated translation? Also curious why Because and Menu are not modular from each other in the installer?  This stuff can't be impossible and I just don't understand how you don't feel its worth your time? These are just my opinions and at the end of the day its your mod and time which I highly respect but hopefully you can take this comment constructively.

[DLPB_]

Because 7th Heaven is an overly complicated modding solution - and it isn't for me to fix bugs with their installation.  My installation works fine.
Not to mention, I am working on my own modding solution.

Imagine you create a novel and someone else edits it and then it's all a mess.  Would you take your complaint to the editor or the original author?  There's nothing more to say on it.

I don't even have the time to start loading 7th Heaven fixing all the incompatibilites.

Also, the reason Menu and Beacause come together is because of menu changes needed to accommodate it.  This may be something I can make optional in R07.

Finally, I'm not happy that the old Menu Overhaul is part of 7th Heaven, because I don't support that version anymore - and it looks crap.  I am not sure the next version will even be compatible with it at all.  As I say, I am working on my own modding solution. 

[opengrip]

Because 7th Heaven is an overly complicated modding solution - and it isn't for me to fix bugs with their installation.  My installation works fine.
Not to mention, I am working on my own modding solution.

Imagine you create a novel and someone else edits it and then it's all a mess.  Would you take your complaint to the editor or the original author?  There's nothing more to say on it.

I don't even have the time to start loading 7th Heaven fixing all the incompatibilites.

Also, the reason Menu and Beacause come together is because of menu changes needed to accommodate it.  This may be something I can make optional in R07.

Finally, I'm not happy that the old Menu Overhaul is part of 7th Heaven, because I don't support that version anymore - and it looks crap.  I am not sure the next version will even be compatible with it at all.  As I say, I am working on my own modding solution.

Ok so let me respond to each of those things.... First off I never said that your mod didn't work fine on its own. My main point was that it wasn't easily compatible with the system that most people use to mod the game....

And 7th heaven doesn't edit things... the words of your book just aren't compatible to begin with... so in this case I would go to the original author. Like if this was my mod (I know its not, but just humor me for a second lol) I would have started out making the mod in a way that would work with the manager.... And don't misunderstand I don't expect your mod to be compatible with everything in 7th heavens catalog. When game companies make games they usually plan there platform and standalone doesn't really work... imagine having to buy a completely new console for each game. So at the end of the day my minimum goal would be to have a product that worked on the system that most users are using. In this case 7th heaven.

I didn't realize that the menu was needed for Because. Can you elaborate a bit more on why this is? I am currently using the 7th heaven menu as its the only one I can get to work with 7th heaven along with the r5 translation.

Assuming you do make the next version fully not compatible with the version in 7th heaven that will force separation of your users completely from 7th heaven... unless you find a way to make your new updates work with 7th heaven. This would be ideal if you plan to have the new menus be required for future versions of your translation.

If not I guess we will be stuck using your earlier versions which would really suck as I would like to experience the hard work you put into these updates. I really can't justify changing my whole mod setup for 1 mods updates unfortunately and the ease of making mod packs into IRO which you can organize with a mod priority is not something most users would wish to give up.

[DLPB_]

My mod came long before 7th Heaven.  You aren't hearing me:

My mod has an installer. It works. It isn't my job to make my mod compatible with another mod - or to work around issues with a now totally unsupported older mod that 7th Heaven devs decided to add.  I don't like 7th Heaven either, which is why I am making my own modding solution.

To create a working translation, the menu needs to be edited, as certain text won't fit etc - that's why it currently comes as one mod.

You are also vastly underestimating the work that is needed.  I have my own mod to complete without spending 100s of hours fixing up another install package.

[StickySock]

IMO Reunion Installer > 7th Heaven, at least in terms of simplicity. The only unrelated mod I am secretly hoping might be considered for adding into the Reunion installer is the hypothetical new version of New Threat that Sega Chief mentioned might use BC as a base for translation with his scripts added over in places as needed. It would be awesome to have a "remix" version of FF7 that still includes all the incredible translation work DLPB, Luksy, and the gang have worked on for so many years.

[opengrip]

My mod came long before 7th Heaven.  You aren't hearing me:

First off stop assuming that I just don't understand what you are saying...

My mod has an installer. It works. It isn't my job to make my mod compatible with another mod - or to work around issues with a now totally unsupported older mod that 7th Heaven devs decided to add.  I don't like 7th Heaven either, which is why I am making my own modding solution.

Again I never said your mod didn't work on its own... you don't have to keep repeating that. And actually it is your job to make your mod compatible... Being the mod author that means you are the one that makes changes to the mod... lol not saying you have to make it compatible... you don't have to do anything haha We don't have to use it if we don't like it... blah blah blah Ok now that we are over comparing our egos...

I will repeat as well that I didn't expect you to have support for everything that 7th heaven adds either... just the base installer.... I want to be able have no mods running from 7th heaven and still have your mod working... so I'm guessing you would have to make your installer work on the 7th heaven exe. (More work I get it) Also if you wanted to make your own modding solution that is great assuming it can do everything 7th heaven does and more... if not there is no point... you are just doing work that is already done. Instead of making competition why not work with the small community we have.
[/quote]

To create a working translation, the menu needs to be edited, as certain text won't fit etc - that's why it currently comes as one mod.

You are also vastly underestimating the work that is needed.  I have my own mod to complete without spending 100s of hours fixing up another install package.

Ok fair enough when it comes to the menu... that completely makes sense. Let me ask you something honestly though.... you are making this mod for people who like ff7 and who want to mod the game.... if 99% of the people who mod this game are using 7th heaven why not just make one installer that works on top of the base 7th heaven exe and require 7th heaven? Thats how most games are modded... there is usually a compatibility patch that makes all versions the same... so that all the modders can have a consistent base game to work off of. Which is what 7th Heaven did... but you are still choosing to mod the base game and screw all the other mods and modders over that are using the compatibility patch... seems selfish...

[DLPB_]

IMO Reunion Installer > 7th Heaven, at least in terms of simplicity. The only unrelated mod I am secretly hoping might be considered for adding into the Reunion installer is the hypothetical new version of New Threat that Sega Chief mentioned might use BC as a base for translation with his scripts added over in places as needed. It would be awesome to have a "remix" version of FF7 that still includes all the incredible translation work DLPB, Luksy, and the gang have worked on for so many years.

This is definitely something I'm looking into with Sega Chief when both mods are at a stage where we call them complete.  It may happen sooner than you think

@Opengrip.  It ain't happening.  Move on. I've given my reasons and my position is unlikely to change.  I'm also pursuing my own modding solution for modders and I find it to be much better than what we currently have (for standalone mods, at least).  So time will tell.

[Headbomb]

So what exactly in 7th Heaven do I need to disable for this to work? 'Dialog Boxes'? Other things? I don't see any options to play with menus anywhere.