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KnifeTheSky77

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #50 on: 2015-06-16 17:48:14 »
They have the potential to do a great job, I hope they don't squander this opportunity. Regardless of the quality of the VA's/gameplay/story, this thing is going to look great.

jeffdamann

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #51 on: 2015-06-16 18:05:59 »
They just announced the PC version is being ported to iOS. Wtf

They must have the source code then right?

Jedimark

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #52 on: 2015-06-16 18:10:35 »
Time to revisit my youth!

Jenova's Witness

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« Reply #53 on: 2015-06-16 18:30:06 »
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« Last Edit: 2015-11-16 07:46:22 by Jenova's Witness »

DLPB_

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #54 on: 2015-06-16 18:37:53 »
According to what I read by someone on this forum not so long ago, they couldn't even get Zack's death right in the "remade" scene for the spin-offs.  And that's just one scene.  Imagine the poor bastards trying to make the entire game keep to a sensible portrayal of the original story.  Not a chance.  More chance of seeing a chocobo, flying or otherwise.
« Last Edit: 2015-06-16 18:39:25 by DLPB »

Jenova's Witness

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« Reply #55 on: 2015-06-16 18:45:16 »
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« Last Edit: 2015-11-16 07:46:11 by Jenova's Witness »

Roden

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #56 on: 2015-06-16 21:53:47 »
Are there any games that fit with the art style and gameplay style of old school PS1 FF games, but with updated graphics (or at least cell-shaded)?
Don't think so.. It's just how the modern world works, I think. If you look at sites like NMA for Fallout, people are still complaining about Fallout 4 not being an isometric game. It seems kind of absurd to me, but then I think "modern" FF fans must view us the same way haha. The attention and money always moves to the "best looking" modern things regardless of gameplay style.

Shard

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #57 on: 2015-06-16 23:30:53 »
The Tales games have a similar playstyle to the retro final fantasies. I'm playing persona3 at the moment and it got me hooked.

hian

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #58 on: 2015-06-16 23:45:50 »
Y'know, I was really worried about this at first, but something was pointed out to me: Square Enix has a surprisingly good track record for remakes. FF4DS (and later iOS, Android, and PC) had awful graphics and atrocious voice acting, but it was absolutely true to the original in gameplay and story. They made balance changes, but at its heart it was still clearly FF4. FF1 and 2 have been remade several times, and all of these remakes have been well beyond than satisfactory. The FF6 remake for mobile has terrible art and serious technical issues with scaling and tiling, but it also gets the story and gameplay right.

However, they have a extremely poor track-record when it comes to how they treat the FF7 franchise.

Instead of giving people the remake they always wanted, they ignored fan-sentiment to release spin-off upon spin-off that nobody asked for - spin-offs that changed the art-style, retconned everything from story to character personalities, and even added new things that make little to no sense in light of the original narrative.

The question will always be - is this going to be a remake that is made is if all that stuff didn't happen, or is it a remake that's going to
expand upon and acknowledge all the other shit in the franchise that they added in later years?

As strawberries as the company has been with spinoffs, direct sequels, and new games in all of their franchises, they simply do not have a history of messing up the gameplay or story in remakes. The closest they ever came to that was FF3 DS, where the added a story because the original didn't even have one. It would be out of character for them to change it; their usual story/gameplay awfulness has been thus far never hurt a single remake they've made.

However, as far as I am aware, non of the games they've successfully remade has the same mess of an expanded universe as FF7,
so that was never really an issue for these games to begin with.

I legitimately don't think they understand what people liked about FF7 or why it was good, but I don't think that'll be an issue.

If you don't understand this, you can't possibly qualify the later sentiment in this statement.

They don't WANT to risk changing it, as that would be more work (and therefore more money) than doing it right, and has a good chance of printing them less money. That's not a creative decision, it's a business decision, and especially after the piss-poor market performance of Lightning Returns, there's just no way they would come to any other conclusion.

Actually, I think granted the current state of the market, and the production-costs associated with AAA gaming, they wouldn't risk not changing it - because despite what FF7 fans like to think - there are not enough FF7 purists around to justify spending the kind
of cash you would need to spend for a full-blown, fully 3D, fully voice-acted FF7, which means that if that's the kind of game
SE are going to make, they have to make it and market it to a bigger demographic, which is why the safe thing to do here is to change it.
SE aren't stupid. They can see the success and sales-numbers of the new generation of console RPGs, like Fallout, Witcher, and Dragon Age. They are also bound to have noticed the interest and promise of FF15. They're not going to go "Let's release an RPG with game-play conventions from the 90's aimed mainly at a minority of purist fans that's going to cost us millions upon millions of dollars".

According to what I read by someone on this forum not so long ago, they couldn't even get Zack's death right in the "remade" scene for the spin-offs.  And that's just one scene.  Imagine the poor bastards trying to make the entire game keep to a sensible portrayal of the original story.  Not a chance.  More chance of seeing a chocobo, flying or otherwise.

That's right. They bastardized the entire Crisis Core plot-line, by making Zack, who was originally not a very good soldier by any stretch of the imagination into this super-hero who could fight hundreds upon hundreds of soldiers at once, or face of against Sephiroth without being instantly one-shot.
The entire death scene of Zack has been turned into this Matrix-esque "This is is Sparta!" emotional jerk-off.
Take into account the addition of pointless and narrative-breaking characters like Genesis and Angeal and the entire thing becomes even worse.

CC was a good game IMO, but it made a mess out of the FF7 lore.

The artwork for original FF7 was anime style, but more realistically rendered.  My ideal FF7 remake would be cell-shaded so it looks like this:
http://www.ffcompilation.co.uk/pages/ffvii/images/ffvii_conceptual_artwork/ffvii_conceptual_artwork_020.png
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080926214004/finalfantasy/images/3/32/Cloud_Portrait.jpg
http://www.ffcompilation.co.uk/pages/ffvii/final_fantasy_vii_concept_artwork.php
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110227161510/finalfantasy/images/1/1a/Cloud-FFVIIArt.png
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130202111634/finalfantasy/images/4/42/Cloud_Menu_Young.jpg

That's essentially my thought too - or at least if they made it conventional 3D, to do it similarly to Kingdom Hearts "cartoony 3D".
Despite annoying changes to the characters to make them look more cute, and contrived costume changes, the Kingdom Hearts (the original that is, since later editions started using the AC designs for some retarded reason or another) rendering of characters like Cloud and Cid IMO are probably the best modern 3D renditions of the characters there is.

At least by opting for that graphical approach they could keep pretty much the environmental designs, character designs etc. close to the original.
Good luck to the dev team making places like Gold Saucer true to the original with the current direction. lol.

StickySock

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #59 on: 2015-06-17 00:26:20 »
I think we can all agree that the best we can hope for is that the game is an adequate remake. Most likely, the game is going to have some issues that will prevent it from being the superior version for us old school fans who play it.

I agree with Covarr that Square makes games that are very faithful to the originals; my fear is that the remake is going to be more faithful to the spinoffs than the original game.

All that being said though, for those of you who are completely appalled by the idea of a remake, please don't ruin it for the rest of us by constantly trashing the idea. I'm not super confident in Square's ability but I would rather there be a remake than none at all. The remake will not do any more harm to the original that the spinoffs haven't already done. If all else fails, we'll still be here patiently waiting for more of Dan's mods.

L. Spiro

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #60 on: 2015-06-17 00:35:53 »
I just hope we get to see the Honey Bee Inn massage scene in true HD.
And I hope to be a part of the project after Final Fantasy XV.


L. Spiro
« Last Edit: 2015-06-17 00:39:39 by L. Spiro »

hian

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #61 on: 2015-06-17 01:15:36 »
I just hope we get to see the Honey Bee Inn massage scene in true HD.

I can't see that happening, because scenes like that will push rating on the game. When was the last time SE made an FF game with anything beyond a PG-13 rating?


But, we're allowed to hope now aren't we?

nickblames

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #62 on: 2015-06-17 01:32:57 »
Must... resist urge... to troll hilariously salty uber fans...

Tekkie.X

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #63 on: 2015-06-17 01:38:30 »
Bottom line, we'll just have to wait and see, maybe Tokyo Game Show for something early.


quantumpencil

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #65 on: 2015-06-17 03:17:35 »
I'm worried more than anything else. This could be great but the art-style has me worrying they're gonna muck it up by stuffing the game with unnecessary melodrama. Part of what I enjoy about the original game is the wackiness/charm and the characterization being full of ordinary dialogue and humor.

I want to be excited but at the same time I've half expected that when the gang rescues Aeris this time, It'll involve running up the side of the shinra building, back-flipping off the wall, bursting through with a spinny halo of buster swords, and a ten minute fight scene with a specter of Sephiroth.

I suppose only time will tell... and if I'm disappointed, there's still NT and the new mod I'll be releasing. (And the many other wonderful projects members of the forum have created)
« Last Edit: 2015-06-17 03:20:01 by quantumpencil »

Gatchaman

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #66 on: 2015-06-17 03:38:22 »
Oh man it would be so cool to revamp the materia system, you could do a lot with it if you're building it back from the ground up. One thing you could do to add differentiation to your characters is have materia grow, as normal, but you lose some growth when you remove it from a slot (gotta break it out!). Cruel choices are fun!
 You could also easily add difficulty settings for people to get the most enjoyment out of their time, for new players who just want to hear the story, and returning players who know the system inside out (like you, reading this, eh? ;) ).
Also, what is wrong with it being Matrix-like? Especially as it's a Japanese game, heavily influenced by Japanese animation of the time, and The Matrix is heavily borrowing from the same sources! It just seems like you're unhappy that your Japanese game is TOO JAPANESE, you know? :p
We will probably get to do most of the fighting ourselves, rather than getting fmvs, anyway. And I will be upset if Vincent doesn't do at least SOME tactical slo-mo back-flips!



Sega Chief

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #67 on: 2015-06-17 03:40:37 »
This about the story:

Quote
“We’ve announced an HD port version on the PlayStation 4, and then we have the remake coming to PS4,” Nomura said through a translator. “You’ll have this extremely, very, very pretty FFVII existing on the same plane. We feel that if that happens, it’s like, why have the same exact game?

“We think that if a game is on a certain platform and that platform becomes obsolete, then we’d recommend playing the new port version,” he added.

Makes sense, Resident Evil's Remake did something similar to great effect. But I wonder what's meant by obsolete platforms?

...the new mod I'll be releasing.

How's that coming along?

quantumpencil

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #68 on: 2015-06-17 03:44:33 »
I don't think there's anything "Japanese" about that kind of action sequence. There's a lot of Japanese animation which doesn't feature those sorts of things.  I do personally find overblown sequences like that puerile. I prefer for the focus to be on the dialogue/character interaction and very rarely do you find the two together. I think the final fantasy series historically has kept the focus off of the action/spectacle (this was relegated to summons and maybe a few FMVs) and on the relationships between the characters.

I hope they don't change this, and I fear that they will.

Quote
How's that coming along?

A few weeks back I started working on it a lot again, and I got some cool things done. I made a very good sapphire weapon model, got the encounter working and scripted in. Some other highlights include a shinryu boss with custom animations and a Four Fiends sidequest (Marilith, Lich, Tiamat and Kraken) which are both about half-implemented in the field. Then, I took a long break because I started a new job and have been putting in a lot of extra hours to get familiar with their ENORMOUS legacy codebase, half of which is written in languages I don't have a lot of familiarity with. That situation is starting to ease up now as I have a better idea of what they need me to know and what is never gonna be touched again =p.

I've been meaning to make a blog about my mod, but I'm lazy/prone to procrastination and I've always hated documenting code/projects (much to the chagrin of all my colleagues). I have also had a hard time coming up with a name for it -_-.  I definitely have enough to show some videos and I'll get the cool ones up soon (At least sapphire weapon/some of the original bosses I'm proud of). There are some suprises I don't want people to know about until they're playing the mod, but I'd be happy to discuss in a PM =p.
« Last Edit: 2015-06-17 03:57:59 by quantumpencil »

hian

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #69 on: 2015-06-17 03:49:44 »
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/final-fantasy-7-remake-s-story-could-deviate-from-/1100-6428247/

Pretty much what I expected. I mean, just based on the trailer you can see that they have already taken liberties with the design of Midgard, and the soldiers(or whatever they are) look more like something out of Modern Combat or Killzone, than FF.
It could work - as I said in my first post, as a sort of "reboot" to the series rather than just a remake.
However, even if I welcome such change for the chance to experience something new, I am going to expect something that is as good, if not better than the original in its own right.
If they start cutting content (like removing the world-map, or not replacing it with an expansive over-world), scrapping the original materia system in favor of something that allows for much less customization, or remove iconic story portions without replacing them with something to fill the gap, then the game isn't going to be very good even on its own - especially with FF15 around the corner.

FF15, love it or hate it, has a lot of promise on the content side of things, with what seems to be a pretty huge world to explore, and in that sense (the grand epic adventure sense) it does have the FF feel to my mind, despite the action combat and the lack of an Uematsu soundtrack. If the remake comes out, and it's this rush through a linear Midgard, with this abstraction for a world map a la FFX, without mini-games, or chocobo breeding/racing etc. then it's just going to be a bad game period.

Actually when I think about it - if they plan on doing major changes, then I would rather they stop calling it a remake, and call it a reboot instead. At least that way, there won't be any ambiguousness on SE's part, and it won't feel like they're just trying to cash
in on the franchise by slapping the FF7 name on something that will be essentially different.

In either case - I hope they aren't just going to leave us hanging with that teaser for several months and proceed to give us some info of substance on the nature of the project. As it is now, it could be anything - it could literally just be a rail-shooter loosely following the plot of FF7 =P

Also, what is wrong with it being Matrix-like? Especially as it's a Japanese game, heavily influenced by Japanese animation of the time, and The Matrix is heavily borrowing from the same sources! It just seems like you're unhappy that your Japanese game is TOO JAPANESE, you know? :p
We will probably get to do most of the fighting ourselves, rather than getting fmvs, anyway. And I will be upset if Vincent doesn't do at least SOME tactical slo-mo back-flips!

Matrix IMO had some of the worst fight choreography I've ever seen. Might sound like hyperbola, but I'm a purist on the matter, and a martial arts enthusiast, so I'm a stickler for this stuff.
Matrix has sub-par kung-fu mixed together with what can only be described as Dragon Ball choreography, and those two genres just don't mix very well.

Also, that's not typical of all Japanese action. Japanese fight scenes exist in many different forms. Typically, Japanese martial arts are minimalistic, focusing on economy of movement, not flashy spectacle, and by extension a lot of Japanese fight choreographers in Japanese cinema go for minimalism as well, with the exception perhaps of the chanbara genre.

The phenomenon you think of here is a relatively modern phenomenon born from the Japanese animation industry and a feed-back-loop it has had with western action choreography since the rise and popularity of the Matrix. Go back and look at 90's anime, and the action is, while over-the-top light shows etc. nothing like the Matrix with it's drawn-out annoying exchanges of blows in zero gravity (with some exceptions like Dragon Ball Z)

FF7 was flashy in it's own rights (just look at the limit-breaks), but it wasn't Matrix-esque before AC. The FF7 action was, again, this typical 90's neon-colored spectacle with light-waves, laser-beams and elemental stuff flying all over the place.
In AC, it was suddenly a bunch of back-flips and wall-running, and long sword exchanges almost devoid of magic.
EDIT - I also think that the subdued action in FF7 had a much stronger impact on the narrative than the over-the-top action in AC.
Sephiroth was awesome because he just chilled, and took two swipes at a dragon and killed it - not because he flew around like a fairy on coke and cut scenery into ribbons.

Even with games like FF8, when they had the capability to animate more sophisticated battle sequences, the sword-fight between Squall and Seifer in the beginning was subdued (almost tame compared to AC) suggesting that the battle-choreography of the PS1 games were consciously made stylistic choices of the times (by Japanese people no less).

I am not pissed off that the game might be "too Japanese" - rather I am worried that it's going to end up looking like what Japanese animation is like today, rather than what it was back when the original game was made - because by any account, today's Japanese anime is a constant spectacle of trying to create more and more ridiculous fight scenes by relying primarily on how much it resembles
the bastard child of Devil May Cry 3 and every animation movie made by Monty Oum ever.

And personally, I am sick and tired of that, because it's everywhere else as well ATM.
It's literally every action scene ever nowadays. Time to do something new, by doing something retro.
« Last Edit: 2015-06-17 04:12:25 by hian »

EQ2Alyza

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #70 on: 2015-06-17 04:15:10 »
This about the story:

Makes sense, Resident Evil's Remake did something similar to great effect. But I wonder what's meant by obsolete platforms?

How's that coming along?

I would be very happy with a Resident Evil remake approach. Update the menus, models, backgrounds, and cutscenes and you're good to go.

I am slightly curious what the game would look like if done in full 3D, FFXIII/XV style. But then things like dialogue (voice acting vs. text) and music would severely clash with the flow of the game IMO.
« Last Edit: 2015-06-17 04:17:16 by EQ2Alyza »

hian

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #71 on: 2015-06-17 04:35:14 »
And, I'm a bit more positive.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-06-17-it-seems-like-final-fantasy-7s-remake-wont-lose-so-much-of-the-crazy

Seems Nomura is intent on keeping the cross-dressing part in the game, which means Nomura might be intent on keeping the quirks of the original intact in general.
Okay, I'll play ball and tentatively put one toe on the hype-train.

Gatchaman

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #72 on: 2015-06-17 05:10:52 »
Very well explained arguments, I enjoyed the read!

Yeah, I think the FFVIII opening cutscene is a great call, the gunblades felt so weighty and forceful. Sephiroth being menacing, and then being powerful but over-active reminds me of how Darth Vader was shown in the later pictures compared to initially.

REmake is a standard that all these HD upgrades should aim for, it was very well done.

And yay for crossdressing! There should be Rydia, Selphie, Yuna, and Vanille outfits for Miss Cloud!  :-* (let best FF girl arguments commence!)

Edit - also, voice acting will now mean we can't name characters, probably... Boo! Cait Sith's real name is totally MilkyPaws and I won't accept anything else!!
« Last Edit: 2015-06-17 05:26:11 by Gatchaman »

gjoerulv

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #73 on: 2015-06-17 05:56:39 »
It's really happening... I'm expecting "FF7 AC the movie the game". I'm hoping it will be good, but -as previously stated by others- the new art style will compromise some of the original atmosphere and feel of the game. It's hard not to be prejudgmental knowing how they fucked up the FF7 universe with all the spin-offs and shit. I don't see them not expanding on added "features" to the FF7 lore. If they ignore it, it's like admitting they fucked it up.

In the end they will do what they believe is more profitable. It's the way business works. The shareholders must be satisfied. Not saying it's bad or good; just the reality of it.

At least the graphics will most likely be awesome. And they alreaddy have the music. Please don't change that too much.

dkma841

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #74 on: 2015-06-17 10:38:58 »
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« Last Edit: 2021-10-28 16:20:41 by dkma841 »