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General Discussion / Re: FF5 on Steam looks a bit very crap
« on: 2015-10-01 17:06:17 »You do know that strawberries is this forums auto-correct for the word "s h i t"?
I think I'll avoid eating that thank you very much.
No. Thank you for the tip though. Just eat strawberries.
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Maybe you should check your eye-sight then? I had no trouble making out what things were supposed to be in the original game.
By 'checking your eye-sight' you mean squeezing the eye? Alright.
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Because we live in 2015 and were talking about a game made by a major AAA game development and publishing company, which means that it's reasonable to expect a certain level of quality from their products, and that it's ah-okay to criticize them for not making products on par with those reasonable expectations.
These reasonable expectations are for an updated release of a classic to not go with a certain art style, even if it is inherently better than the original game?
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If low-/mid-tier sprite artists working for a lick and nothing can make better 2D sprites and tiles than people working for SE at full pay, then that begs the question why that is. The answer is most likely either "laziness" or "ineptitude", and I am not going to enable or support that by paying for it.
Again, why should I care about comparing SE spriters to random unnamed indie spriters? You compare the 'rerelease' to the 'original', everything has been that way. You don't compare the 'rerelease' with 'another game'. When comparing the 'rerelease' to the 'original' in terms of sprites, the sprites are certainly better. Just because 'another game' has better sprites, doesn't mean there was laziness or ineptitude in the equation.
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Spelling mistake. Point still stands - I have no idea what that is supposed to mean in this context. I am not in a position to demote anyone, and the criticism would be true regardless of whether or not you think I shouldn't because it's a person who's been working in the industry for a long period of time. In fact the opposite is true - if this is the best we can expect from a long-timer in the industry, that is extremely tragic and even more worthy of criticism.
Fine. Its extremely tragic to YOU. Not to me though. Again, you're basing your whole criticism on an art style. Art style wise, its great, and much better than the original. Where is the 'tragic' in that, I don't know.
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Firstly, I did qualify my sentiment by stating that it wasn't necessarily his fault as he could have received bad directions by the producers, or worked under other limiting conditions, so you selectively latching unto that point is completely inane.
I'm not sure what kind of bad direction is there to be seen in the sprites. We're looking at sprites that actually manage to both balance telling the sprite's features and leaving imagination room open. They didn't kill the possibilities of imagination by making the sprite more detailed, and they didn't decrease the features by putting less details.
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Secondly, it all depends on what you mean by advancing. Whatever limitations or lack of quality present in his original original sprites, they were excused by the hardware limitations of the time. Now, they are not. Considering the advances in technology, the time between this release and the original, and the level of even amateur sprite artists in the larger gaming community these days, it is not unreasonable to expect more from him, and him making what he made is either indicative of laziness, incompetence or company idiocy. Barring the last, I'd say it's a fair characterization to say he hasn't advanced much as a sprite-artist.
Really? So just because the sprites turned out to be these, he's either lazy, in-competitive, or the company is idiotic? Sure. I'm an idiot if for example, I prefer my art to look cartoonish over realistic. I'm lazy because I think a noir artstyle is more fitting. I'm incompetent because my artstyle is cutesy looking. Your problem here is not that the art style itself is not good, your problem is that you're comparing random sprites from other unrelated individuals to a set of sprites chosen for the re-release of a classic.
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off course graphics come in second (on a general basis). However, the game-play is largely the same no? Also, it's not like this game exists in a vacuum. If it makes me eyes bleed, which it does (off course figuratively speaking), then why should I play it? Does it offer anything that makes it so good that other "prettier" games can't out-compete it, especially considering I've already gotten the story from the original?
There is a better translation, updated controls for the touchscreen, it has soundtrack, the works. Other than that you're right, the gameplay is the same. However, the extra features, including that its updated over the old one with features I'm expecting of SE ports, is why I love them. This is why FF7's port for iOS isn't clicking with me, having no updated control scheme for battles and world map at all.
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So what? How does this have any bearing on the argument? I am not making an argument for why this game shouldn't be or why other people shouldn't play it - I am simply making the argument that it's graphically speaking sub-par and disappointing considering that it's made by SE - which it is.
If its graphically subpar to other games, not my problem, even if it probably isn't. What matters is that it's graphically better compared to the original.
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Why are you harping on about this?
Because simply reporting the game and putting on a controller overlay for another platform doesn't click with people anymore. This is why rereleases like this are made.
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Good for you then. Personally, I hate touch-screen controls with a passion and avoid them like the plague. It's the primary reason why my phone is an Xperia Play.
I have an Archos Gamepad 2 as well, which is something like an Xperia Play. However, that doesn't mean I hate the touchscreen. Generally, SE makes classics work even greater with the touchscreen. Instead of cycling through the characters with the Square/X? button in one direction, I can just tap a character with a full ATB bar and issue a command. FF6's touchscreen implementation is even better too.
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I don't need built-in music players, because when I listen to music, I listen to music on the MP3 player function on my phone, and when I play games I play games. Listening to music in a separate player within a game has always seemed like a completely redundant and trite feature to my mind.
But to others, it feels like a nice extra. Having "Battle at the Big Bridge" inside the game pretty much playable anytime I want after I beat the final boss is something I like about it.
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Bonus content is a plus though - but then again, I'm not really a completionist and play FF games largely for the story, so I'm not going to buy a game for any of those features if looking at the game makes me want to strangle puppies.
To me, I still occasionally pop up into the Sealed Temple and try owning me some monsters using my relatively overpowered party (all jobs mastered + level 65+), if I wasn't replaying the game at the time.
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Yes it does - because guess what, "good" and "bad" as terms relating to quality are relative in relation to competing products.
If non-professionals make better sprites than you on a hobby basis for non-commercial games then your sprites are bad by any meaningful sense of that word. If you don't think so, I double-dare you to provide a functional definition and use of those terms apart from that. If you can't then you really have no leg to stand on it relation to calling this game either good nor bad.
And again, this is a re-release of a classic game with updated graphics. The graphics of the re-release are better looking than the classic game, therefore the sprites are 'good'. I don't care about indies, aliens, espers, angels, or demons making better sprites than the ones SE made overall, say what you will. What matters is that the sprites are relatively better to the original product. And, even the 'indies' you like to talk about aren't even competing to "FINAL FANTASY V," as that's a game that's been sold since the SNES days in Japan and PSX everywhere else. This re-release is just an extension to that, as is with the other SE ports.
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Then you'd be wrong. When I evaluate the quality of a game, I evaluate it against games in general - just like when the FF7 remake comes out I'll evaluate how good it is in relation to the 2 decades of other RPGs that have come out in the meantime.
It does not get a free pass for being just as good, or a bit better than the original, if everyone else in the industry, even people on the outside have left it behind in the dust with a new generation of products.
I don't approve of comparing an outdated title with outdated standards versus new titles with new standards. You actually want to really evaluate the quality of a 're-release', you'll evaluate it against the old original, as it is then you're comparing the game right by comparing outdated standards in a rerelease with outdated standards in a classic. These re-releases are not meant to compete against the new RPGs of today with whatever advances they brought. Their selling point is more than likely nostalgia.
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SE themselves have already remade several other FFs in full 3D with lots of added content, remastered music etc. so to make something like this, which isn't even on par with what a team of dedicated hobby-term devs and designers could have made on the most recent rpg-maker software is extremely underwhelming and retrograde.
I'm not interested in 3D. Whether the game is 2D or 3D is not of any matter to me. Besides that, they're nearly on the same footing as FF5 and FF6 Android with the extras, only with a harder game instead. Oh, I'd like you to bring me a team of dedicated hobby-term devs and designers and make them recreate for me the FFV re-release in RPG Maker, and make it feel like an exact replica if possible. You keep bringing that up, I want you to show me its possible. Actually, there's one thing I didn't mention about the rerelease, also from the FF Wikia as a source: the whole coding was remade from scratch. So if the game can be coded again and be delivered in a better form than SE has to offer, show me and I'm with you. Mind you, I don't want a mod out of it.
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But hey, you're welcome to hold your lowered expectations and standards. I however, am not going to wast money on something like this and send the message to SE that it's just fine for them to rehash old material with minimal effort.
You're also welcome to compare 're-releases' of old games to the new games of today and mark them a 'F' for having none of the standards of today, even if that's the case by default. This port is actually better than the FF7 port for mobiles you know. Instead of grasping at the sprites as the clutch of your entire argument, why not grasp at the non-graphical extras instead?