Author Topic: PSX Emulator (FAO Jari, Dag & Friends) (Read 98679 times)

cHiBiMaRuKo · « **Reply #100 on:** 2001-02-28 21:55:00 »

Whether the specs is finalised or not, it shouldn't be a problem for developers. DirectX SDK is enough for it as that SDK is hardware transparent. But I think it ( the spec ) is already finalised by looking at the fact that nVidia already start manufacturing chips for the x-Box.

M0T · « **Reply #101 on:** 2001-03-01 01:11:00 »

Yeah they are making chips for it but my question is (and I dont know too much about this) since some of the specs aren't totally finalised does it mean that if the developers dont know what they are they cant take advantage of the special features.
I have decided in my wisdom not to get an xbox unless it costs Â£300 or less (Â£300 is about $480) but due to the high value of the Â£ it will probably cost Â£400 (just my luck) If it has ff12 on it ill definatley get one, but come to think out it i have internet connection sharing so my net is crap so i better get one for 11.
btw. i think there is still a chance that square may put the ff series on gamecube, the reason is nintendo are keeping very quiet until e3 ( which would not be good buisiness sense if you consider most people dont know what one is - I went into an eb in london "gamecube, whats that?- the sensible thing to do would be to do what the underdog (microsoft) are doing - hype and lots of it) which would suggest that they are either stupid (not likely) or have something important and very big to announce and the only thing I can think of (but thats just me) is a large franchise - get my drift. so square may end up being a multiplatform company.
but thats just my thoughts they may just be trying to build suspense.
anyway got to finish typin as I have some geog course work to do in under 3 hrs

Aaron · « **Reply #102 on:** 2001-03-02 22:25:00 »

> the underdog (microsoft)

Microsoft shouldn't be considered the "underdog" b/c it has more money than both Sony and Nintendo combined...

My friend is sitting here reading this, and he says "You better buy an X-Box before its forcefully implanted into your spinal cord."

Threesixty · « **Reply #103 on:** 2001-03-03 09:36:00 »

Honestly...if you own a computer, why buy the X-box?

cHiBiMaRuKo · « **Reply #104 on:** 2001-03-03 10:56:00 »

Why buy the X-Box? It's because you got nVidia NV20 power ( or more ) at probably half the price! And console is a console and PC is a PC. Both are 2 different things!

ficedula · « **Reply #105 on:** 2001-03-03 18:48:00 »

Would I buy an XBox? No. Why? Well, if the development environment for it is DirectX, then I suspect anything developed for it could be ported to the PC very, very quickly - in fact, there'd probably be little cost to do it, so most developers will. So there's no point in me buying an XBox, when I already have a good PC. At least with Gamecube/PS2 there might be some games that don't make it to the PC. (I don't think that's a GOOD thing, but it IS a reason to buy one of them!).

M0T · « **Reply #106 on:** 2001-03-03 19:37:00 »

Microsoft is considered an underdog because it has no prior experiance of console gaming which is pretty much a good reason

M0T · « **Reply #107 on:** 2001-03-03 19:40:00 »

I think that the xbox would maybe be a little too large to insert into my spine

Ant · « **Reply #108 on:** 2001-03-03 19:42:00 »

Absoulutely Fice.

Thats why there seems very little point in buying an X-Box since I reckon pretty much all X-Box games will be ported over to PC so they reach a wider audience.

Plus the gamecube is gonna rock and kick PS2's ass.

cHiBiMaRuKo · « **Reply #109 on:** 2001-03-03 21:04:00 »

ficedula: Even if X-Box games is based on DirectX, the X-Box games aren't that easy to port to PC. With X-Box, there's only one chip the developers have to test the games with, the nVidia NV25 ( or whatever they call it ). How many PC around the world that have the same video chipset as the X-Box have? None as of today! The NV20 price is so high, I doubt if there's are lot of people will buy it before the price going down. To develop games for PC, developers have to cater for many different configurations ( Voodoo5, Radeon, G400 etc. ), thus I believe, a direct conversion from X-Box to PC will have technical difficulties as those chips ( Voodoo5, Radeon G400 and NV15 ) don't have the features that were present in NV25 inside the X-Box. If a developer plans to release a game on X-Box and take advantage of all NV25 features have to offer, a direct conversion to PC is unlikely to happen unless a lot of people have GeForce4 or sacrifices in image quality is done to cater for Radeon, Voodoo5 and NV15 users.

The SaiNt · « **Reply #110 on:** 2001-03-04 01:16:00 »

cHiBiMaRuKo, I think I'll save Fice the effort of saying anything. Do you know what the point of DirectX is? DirectX is supposed to be a layer between all hardware components and the operating system. So this is sort of like a library of predefined functions so if your video card or sound card supports a certain version of DirectX, it supports all the functions or calls for that version of directx. DirectX was meant to alleviate this multiple hardware problems. In other words, porting the game wouldn't be very difficult.

cHiBiMaRuKo · « **Reply #111 on:** 2001-03-04 01:45:00 »

I think you've missed my point.
If a developer release a X-Box game that fully exploit the DirectX 8 features like those nVidia programmable vertex shaders ( graphic )or DLS2 ( sound ), then only by recompilation will that game works for PC?

No is my answer. Which PC graphic card support DirectX 8 functions in hardware? Only the ultra-expensive NV20. Which soundcard will support DLS2? None as of yet!

An X-Box game will have to massively reenginnered for porting to PC ( reducing graphic elements or changing sound engine ). That's my point here. There's a big difference between DirectX 8-supported hardware and DirectX-compliant hardware. Due to it's price, NV20 won't sell unless the price dropped. While Live! and Vortex2 card technically support DLS2 in hardware, their current drivers don't have that feature.

ficedula · « **Reply #112 on:** 2001-03-04 03:48:00 »

You've still missed the point. Yes, there'll be a lot of changes needed to port XBox games to the PC. But it will *still* be less than games written for the PS2/Gamecube, that will in all likelehood use a COMPLETELY different system to DirectX. And so what if nothing supports DX8 100% in hardware yet? Do you need 100% hardware acceleration? Nope. Do you see XBox's for sale? No, so by the time they come out, I suspect a lot of PC hardware *will* have DX8 support.

Srethron Askvelhtnod · « **Reply #113 on:** 2001-03-04 16:03:00 »

I've just a couple things to say. First, unless something's changed recently in Microsoft's strategy, most X-Box games will be X-box only. PC users will probably get a few bones (such as the awesome looking Halo, which was originally coming out on the PC until Microsoft swallowed Bungie), but certainly not many. However, Ficedula's right. The X-box is basically a regular Microsoft PC. Sure it's got a few differences (for one thing, being able to use your TV as a monitor as soon as you turn it on

), but they're all relatively minor. At it's core, the X-box is a single purpose (entertainment) PC with a stripped down OS.
I think that even though most X-box titles will be X-box only, X-box emulation will be a piece of cake (especially compared to, say, the PS2).
I see little reason to buy an X-box. By the time it comes out, most of it's "special" features (DLS2, an advanced graphics chip, etc.) will be relatively standard on mid-range PCs. If I want the games, I'll get an emulator.

[This message has been edited by Srethron Askvelhtnod (edited March 04, 2001).]

cHiBiMaRuKo · « **Reply #114 on:** 2001-03-04 05:23:00 »

Quote

You've still missed the point. Yes, there'll be a lot of changes needed to port XBox games to the PC. But it will *still* be less than games written for the PS2/Gamecube, that will in all likelehood use a COMPLETELY different system to DirectX. And so what if nothing supports DX8 100% in hardware yet? Do you need 100% hardware acceleration? Nope. Do you see XBox's for sale? No, so by the time they come out, I suspect a lot of PC hardware *will* have DX8 support.

Who say X-Box is just another PC? X-Box is MUCH faster than equivalently clocked PC. It don't have to deal with the superslow AGP and PCI connectors. It have almost dedicated high-speed bus to every component of the console, ie. RAM, HDD etc. Developers will surely take this into consideration and probably will put more texture processing that probably even AGP 8x couldn't handle.

I've see that you agree with my point of an X-Box game have to be massively rewritten for porting to PC. But I don't think that porting PS2/Gamecube games MUST be harder than porting X-Box games. For example the Summoner Demo for PC. Still looking very good for me here. After all, PS2 games still use large potion of C/c++ language.

Also I don't agree with the statement that say when X-Box come out, more hardware will have 'DirectX-8 support". For the second time, I must stress that DirectX8-supporting hardware IS DIFFERENT with DirectX8-compliant hardware. If a DirectX8 driver for Voodoo5 have come out, will it automatically made Voodoo5 to have the same features as NV20? No. Radeon2 ( which should support Directx 8 ), don't have a fixed release date yet. I don't think that there will be a lot of DirectX-compliant hardware out there when the X-Box come out.

Anyway, I sure think that an emulator for X-Box will be easy to write than of PS2/Gamecube.

ficedula · « **Reply #115 on:** 2001-03-04 05:30:00 »

I still think porting an XBox game would be far, far easier than porting a PS2 game, say. So what if a particular effect is accelerated on the XBox but not on every PC? Just make it an option ... or use it anyway! All of the library code (DirectX) would be the same. Compare this to, say, FF7, where they probably had to rewrite the whole graphics engine from scratch.

« **Reply #116 on:** 2001-03-04 09:28:00 »

Hmmm ePSXe.... (FF9) Can you save the game?
Please help

M0T · « **Reply #117 on:** 2001-03-04 16:00:00 »

Definatley should be made an option to turn the particular effect on because in a few years we might come back to an xbox game and we would then have pcs that were better than xboxs and we could then play them with the better options

to save in epsxe make sure the game is forced to run in pal mode then you can save. failing that press f4 when you are about to save. its much easier though to just force the game into pal mode

cHiBiMaRuKo · « **Reply #118 on:** 2001-03-04 20:57:00 »

Yes, I think making the unsupported features of X-Box games as an option is a great idea, but surely the ported games will not give the same effects like the X-box games will offer. So still the X-Box is a better buy than waiting for X-Box games to be ported to PC and have lesser quality as well.

ficedula · « **Reply #119 on:** 2001-03-04 21:39:00 »

...except in a few years time, when the PC produces better effects than the XBox.

*Any* console will produce better effects than the PC at the moment. Remember the PSX? *Far* out performed the PC on release, but for the past 4+ years it's been lagging *way* behind. Happens with every console.

cHiBiMaRuKo · « **Reply #120 on:** 2001-03-04 21:56:00 »

Yes, in a few years time, PC will have better graphic effects than of X-Box. So what? In few years time, the X-Box will drop in price ( as the case with PS ) and having it is much more viable as you can play with X-Box games ASAP and don't have to wait for any porting process to happen!

Probably in few years time, X-Box2 is already out using NV40 and Pentium6 and will be futhrer ahead of that time PC technology have to offer.

it's sure is worth a look if in few years time, a decent X-Box emulator will already come out or not.

Srethron Askvelhtnod · « **Reply #121 on:** 2001-03-04 23:41:00 »

cHiBiMaRuKo: "Who say X-Box is just another PC? X-Box is MUCH faster than equivalently clocked PC. It don't have to deal with the superslow AGP and PCI connectors. It have almost dedicated high-speed bus to every component of the console, ie. RAM, HDD etc. Developers will surely take this into consideration and probably will put more texture processing that probably even AGP 8x couldn't handle."

If I had a PC that was optimized for gaming, I'm sure that I could get results not much lower than the X-box's "stats". The X-box and its routines are optimized for gaming, so yeah, there probably would be a difference, but nothing as large as you're supposing. Also, as Ficedula has been saying, we won't know the *real* stats/performance of Gamecube/X-box until they're released. Until then, the hype is all fluff--nothing more.

"I've see that you agree with my point of an X-Box game have to be massively rewritten for porting to PC. But I don't think that porting PS2/Gamecube games MUST be harder than porting X-Box games. For example the Summoner Demo for PC. Still looking very good for me here. After all, PS2 games still use large potion of C/c++ language."

Summoner was designed from the ground up for *both* the PS2 and the PC. IIRC, same deal with Oni.

"Also I don't agree with the statement that say when X-Box come out, more hardware will have 'DirectX-8 support". For the second time, I must stress that DirectX8-supporting hardware IS DIFFERENT with DirectX8-compliant hardware. If a DirectX8 driver for Voodoo5 have come out, will it automatically made Voodoo5 to have the same features as NV20? No. Radeon2 ( which should support Directx 8 ), don't have a fixed release date yet. I don't think that there will be a lot of DirectX-compliant hardware out there when the X-Box come out."

So? The X-box isn't supposed to be released until fall sometime. More than enough time for PCs. How often do new versions of DirectX come out? Pretty often. I wouldn't be surprised if DirectX 9 is being used on PCs when the X-box comes. New graphics chips come out roughly every 6 months. We're due for some new ones that are a step above anytime now. When new stuff comes out, the price of the now "obsolete" cards (i.e. Radeon) comes down to reasonable levels.

"Yes, in a few years time, PC will have better graphic effects than of X-Box. So what? In few years time, the X-Box will drop in price ( as the case with PS ) and having it is much more viable as you can play with X-Box games ASAP and don't have to wait for any porting process to happen!"

I think by fall, when 1GHz systems are approaching the mid-range standard (as in, the slowest stores will sell), someone will be hard at work on an X-box emulator as soon as it is released. I mean, what's hard to emulate? The P4 has a 400MHz BUS, compared to the X-box's 200. I'm sure the new Athlon machines will have something similar to the P4's so that they can compete effectively. Same with other features. RAM? Not a problem. Sure, it operates differently, but nothing that can't be emulated. Hard drive? 8GB is pretty small these days. etc. etc.

Ficedula: ..."except in a few years time, when the PC produces better effects than the XBox."

I'm guessing it'll actually only be 1 1/2 years or less before the PC is once again firmly in the lead. Why? Well, the Athlon 1.7GHz should be out sometime soon. From there, it's just a matter of Moore's Law.

[This message has been edited by Srethron Askvelhtnod (edited March 04, 2001).]

The Skillster · « **Reply #122 on:** 2001-03-05 03:29:00 »

can u lot shut the hell up all readY!!!!
Xbox is gonna be a m$ console and a pc by then will be soo much faster, like the 3rd generation of athlons at 1.9MHz or 3rd generation pentium4s at 2Ghz not enuff for u?
Yes consoles r high bus bandwidth machines hence the RDRAM in ps2 and N64s but thats only 400MHz of memory bus speed where DDR is reaching 2100MHz!!!
put thats not in a consoles' price range... yet!

90% chance X-box software houses will see the profitability in the easier porting for a PC release.
On the other hand the guys who r making that abbe's oddysey think did convert it to xbox inside a week....

cHiBiMaRuKo · « **Reply #123 on:** 2001-03-05 03:53:00 »

Quote

So? The X-box isn't supposed to be released until fall sometime. More than enough time for PCs. How often do new versions of DirectX come out? Pretty often. I wouldn't be surprised if DirectX 9 is being used on PCs when the X-box comes. New graphics chips come out roughly every 6 months. We're due for some new ones that are a step above anytime now. When new stuff comes out, the price of the now "obsolete" cards (i.e. Radeon) comes down to reasonable levels.

Define pretty often. In the past, new release of DirectX is out roughly once a year. But for now, there's still no news about DirectX9. I've been beta-testing DirectX for Microsoft since DirectX 6 days and up to today, there's still are no inside news for DirectX 9. I think it wouldn't come out this year at least, because no news for it as of yet ( as opposed to the last time ).

If it truly X-Box will come out this US fall, PC is highly likely won't have time to catch-up. New graphic card every 6 months? How long NV20 takes to come out? More than 1 full year since NV15 released. Radeon2 will still don't match NV25 speed even if ATI released them in time ( which is hould be now ). Note the word if. The graphic chip market now seems to have beeen slowing down it seems. No competition. And I don't see that NV20 prices will come down before X-Box launch at least.

Quote

I think by fall, when 1GHz systems are approaching the mid-range standard (as in, the slowest stores will sell), someone will be hard at work on an X-box emulator as soon as it is released. I mean, what's hard to emulate? The P4 has a 400MHz BUS, compared to the X-box's 200. I'm sure the new Athlon machines will have something similar to the P4's so that they can compete effectively. Same with other features. RAM? Not a problem. Sure, it operates differently, but nothing that can't be emulated. Hard drive? 8GB is pretty small these days. etc. etc.

I do want to see how those emulator programmers try to emulate the way X-Box handles data streaming, Dolby Digital AC-3 processing and large texture handling routine in PC; that 3 are just for examples.

P4 may have 400Mhz FSB, but their PCI and AGP still operate at 33Mhz and 66Mhz respectively, a hindrance for some of X-Box features to be emulated in PC effectively. AMD P4 contenders like Palomino, Thoroughbred and Claw/SledgeHammers CPUs, won't come out before 2002 as AMD don't regard P4 as a threat for them.

cHiBiMaRuKo · « **Reply #124 on:** 2001-03-05 16:13:00 »

Quote

can u lot shut the hell up all readY!!!!
Xbox is gonna be a m$ console and a pc by then will be soo much faster, like the 3rd generation of athlons at 1.9MHz or 3rd generation pentium4s at 2Ghz not enuff for u?
Yes consoles r high bus bandwidth machines hence the RDRAM in ps2 and N64s but thats only 400MHz of memory bus speed where DDR is reaching 2100MHz!!!
put thats not in a consoles' price range... yet!
90% chance X-box software houses will see the profitability in the easier porting for a PC release.
On the other hand the guys who r making that abbe's oddysey think did convert it to xbox inside a week....

How a PC will be so much faster when X-Box come out? There's will be no peers for NV25 yet for PC at that time. Clock speed isn't everything. A 1Ghz P3 isn't 2x performance of P3 500Mhz in real world applications.

Consoles like X-Box and PS2 are high-bandwidth machines, and that's what setting them apart from PCs, which is a low bandwidth machine. DDR at 2100Mhz? Where do you get that figure? RDRAM is not 400Mhz, but a lot higher than that.

Intel and AMD roadmaps is a good indications of what's in store form them when X-Box come out.