Author Topic: Final Fantasy VII is a horrible game!  (Read 2931 times)

Mako

  • *
  • Posts: 669
    • View Profile
Final Fantasy VII is a horrible game!
« on: 2022-04-01 15:19:40 »
Hello all! Spoilers be warned. Clickbait topic aside, and no I'm not lost I know where I am... put away your pitchforks and torches for a second and hear me out - before I throw myself in the proverbial ditch.

I'm mostly through a 2022 run of Final Fantasy VII, as some can attest I'm one of and will always be its biggest fan. That said, the tale of Final Fantasy VII is a horrible one. Filled with sadness and grief only to be wrapped in a bow of sadness and despair. It might even be the most unsatisfying story ever told!

Why do you ask? Well, tl;dr version the bad guy wins. Humanity is extinct, and as far as we know, the being known as Jenova/Sephiroth is still free. This is even made worse when you take the compilation into account. The planet wants to collect the remaining (presumably uninfected) Mako and cut bait. The party stops this in Dirge of Cerberus, effectively stopping what the planet does to naturally defend itself. Making Cloud and company the "bad" guys. But putting the compilation aside for a moment, the original is quite bleak. ALL HUMANITY DIES. that's right according to the original director. Some barebones analysis from the final scene shows that Gaia, can, and still supports life. So did Sephiroth win? Did the planet concoct another Weapon and destroy humanity? After all there were some that lived off the land and did not embrace Mako energy. In the end it doesn't matter, the end result was/is the same. While you are playing FF7 they spend a great deal of effort to try and shift the goals to saving the planet. But it's a zero-sum game, either way, you lose, and we are not entirely sure you managed to save Gaia.

Making it the ONLY story I've witnessed/read/played where the bad guy wins full stop. "But Mako we defeated Sephiroth!?" Nah, the game makes it quite clear through itself and its extended media you did not. It's also hard not to believe Sephiroth didn't appear when Cloud and company were in assisted living facilities and finished the job.

To be clear it's not bad, it's horrible. Since 1997 I have had no good resolution to the tale. To be fair in ANY story that flashes "and the all die -The End" would feel pretty terrible. Except for Red XIII, he lives... so that's something I guess.

As Red XIII pointed out in the remake, this^ is the bad ending. Meaning your fighting in the original for the worst to happen. This is one instance where I would love someone to prove my own interpretation wrong. As it would only help me fall in love with the FF7 story again... but I don't see how that's possible. I'd have to ignore outright too much. Anyway thanks for reading my long-winded rant. lol

 
« Last Edit: 2022-04-01 16:34:25 by Mako »

Kuraudo.

  • SOLDIER
  • *
  • Posts: 354
  • Maktub
    • View Profile
    • Behemoth Productions
Re: Final Fantasy VII is a horrible game!
« Reply #1 on: 2022-04-03 15:43:52 »
What about the kids laughing? Sign of non-extinction, new hope?

nfitc1

  • *
  • Posts: 3011
  • I just don't know what went wrong.
    • View Profile
    • WM/PrC Blog
Re: Final Fantasy VII is a horrible game!
« Reply #2 on: 2022-04-03 17:19:49 »
Head canon, no matter the source, is just that. “If it didn’t happen on screen it didn’t happen.” All we saw is Midgar being overgrown after 500 years. According to the other sources (AC, DoC) the events in this game did not cause the extinction of humanity.

Mako

  • *
  • Posts: 669
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy VII is a horrible game!
« Reply #3 on: 2022-04-04 13:14:52 »
Well, I disagree with "no matter what the source." Misguided labeling aside, two things can be true at once... The events of the game did not cause the extinction of humanity, but conversely, it did not save it either. Ultimately still leads to my issue.

 “If it didn’t happen on screen it didn’t happen.”
Eastern RPGs generally don't handhold that much, some degree of effort is needed on the reader's part. We are also not explicitly told they live. In this one rare case, however, we do actually have a comment from a man who seemingly has complete autonomous control over the story and its direction. In a company that I am completely convinced would bend to his ideas. Meaning if Square put out a conflicting statement, they would walk it back at his request.

Prior to 2020 maybe your stance would have some merit (discounting the comment by its story director) but we have NEW info, since FF7R is essentially a sequel of sorts Red XIII does refer to the original ending as the "bad" ending.   

Kuraudo.

  • SOLDIER
  • *
  • Posts: 354
  • Maktub
    • View Profile
    • Behemoth Productions
Re: Final Fantasy VII is a horrible game!
« Reply #4 on: 2022-04-04 22:57:55 »
Dismantled (1997, Nomura)
Q: Unlike with previous Final Fantasy games, the interpretation of this game’s ending seems to vary from person to person.
A: That was deliberate. Some people might think that the Northern Crater is the Promised Land, while others might say that every place rooted to the earth is its own Promised Land. Personally, I’m of the opinion that Midgar is the Promised Land, based on the fact that it’s full of vegetation at the end, and it’s the place where Aerith—an Ancient—directed all those currents of Lifestream. But I don’t know how Nojima, the lead scenario writer, would respond to that [laughs].
~
Dreamaga (2003, Nojima)
Nojima says the ending of FFVII is pretty straightforward. The planet is still alive thanks to Cloud and his party, and smoke can be seen rising from Midgar, indicating humanity survived. However, Naora reveals he actually forgot to add the smoke into the FMV.
~
Dreamaga (2003, Kitase)
Kitase says that with FFVII, he wanted to move away from the overblown and overly drawn-out happily-ever-after endings of FFV and VI. He liked the idea of suddenly cutting to 500 years in the future and showing the planet has been saved but explaining little else.
~
Ultimania Omega (2005)
[Image caption:] Below them lies what used to be Midgar, the city of mako, now buried beneath lush vegetation and surrounded by flowing rivers.
[Image caption:] Mixed in among the chirping of birds and the gurgling of rivers, we can make out the sound of merry laughter…
~
Electronic Gaming Monthly (2005, Kitase)
EGM: At the very end of FFVII, we see the epilogue to the whole story that takes place 500 years later, so really, you still have another 497 years’ worth of games and movies to fill in....
YK: Ha, maybe I’ll try to do that. In a way, I consider that epilogue to be the true happy ending of FFVII. Well, it’s a happy ending even though all the human beings are destroyed. [Laughs]
~
ACRF (2006, Nomura)
Nomura says that Midgar was a place where people had abandoned the land since it was built on top of the slums, but the image of Midgar, 500 years in the future, shows that people returned to living with nature on the ground as they had in the past.

{edited for posperity}
« Last Edit: 2023-07-27 20:08:54 by Kuraudo. »

Mako

  • *
  • Posts: 669
    • View Profile
Re: Final Fantasy VII is a horrible game!
« Reply #5 on: 2022-04-05 06:57:59 »
Nomura comments and breakdowns are dismantled all right, even by himself. In the end he did say pretty much that Nojima would also have to feel this way for this to be true...

My comment came from the guy Nomura passed the torch to, is tasked with (and seems to have sole control) over the direction of Final Fantasy VII. Even Nojima does not openly question him, even though in interviews it seems he wants to. That is Yoshinori Kitase. I could go on, but long story short, if Yoshinori Kitase wants it, he gets it - is an understatement.

EGM: At the very end of FFVII, we see the epilogue to the whole story that takes place 500 years later, so really, you still have another 497 years’ worth of games and movies to fill in....

YK: Ha, maybe I’ll try to do that. In a way, I consider that epilogue to be the true happy ending of FFVII. Well, it’s a happy ending even though all the human beings are destroyed. [Laughs]


I have absolutely no love for Yoshinori Kitase his fingerprints are all over the remake. But every time he speaks it's from a "matter of fact" position, cause he is tasked with keeping the lore intact and consistent. If the ENTIRE original team said humanity lives, and Kitase said otherwise Square would side with him.

~~
But I was not exclusively talking about the comment, as I talked with Covarr-let on discord. There are other references IN GAME that no one seem to acknowledge. Bugenhagen

When it's time for this planet to die, you'll understand that you know absolutely nothing.

Ho Ho Hoooo. It may be tomorrow, or 100 years from now... But it's not long off.

They have come here on a journey to save the planet. - Red XIII

Ho Ho Hoooo. To save the planet? Ho Ho Hoooo!

As we can see, as well as the overall tone of the conversation was that there was nothing they could do, even going as far as laughing at the idea. This in the combination of extended media interviews, movies, games, ect. tip the scales more in favor of extinct. If we were to take Bugenhagen word for word our understanding of how the planet is dying is off. That it wasn't Shinra or Sephiroth related, remember Cloud knows absolutely nothing. 

Even the Shinra Theory still holds water, two years later they are still deciding to hold Shinra financially responsible. Reno and company still seem to be getting supplied, and they are carrying out operations in the northern crater. Sure Shinra is a shell, but nearly every city is still intact, and their president lives. More evidence than not that Shinra has survived.
« Last Edit: 2022-04-05 07:04:15 by Mako »