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Messages - gjoerulv

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51
I fail to see the logical connections here; have SE created a new sub-genre? Please explain.

FF7R IS made into an action game, because that's where the money is. Same thing with FF15. The trend in sales goes that way, or rather have never shifted. I'm not saying that the devs works against their wishes. I'm sure many of them, if not all of them are totally hyped about FF7R FF15 and so on. But that's besides the point.

The whole concept of RPG in gaming is rather vague anyway, but most of the games I listed are usually labeled as action-RPGs. FF7R is hardly a new genre.

52
I hardly think making it an active rpg is base on market research.... As the majority of action RPGs are fairly niche groups that enjoy them, as are tactical action games so why would they put the effort into creating a new subgenre

Welp all I can say, do some research.

Now, not all of these are exact ARPGs like FF7 pr se, but still not that far off either.

The Elder Scrolls
Diablo
Red Dead Redemption
The Witcher
Dragon Age
The Last of Us
Borderlands
Mass Effect

To mention some. They have all outsold FFs, or was/is at the very least close contenders.
What turn based games outsold these, and/or is in direct contest? Not many. Pokemon perhaps.

And you have action games like Call of Duty, PUGB, GTA, Fortnite, etc, all outselling FFs and other popular traditional turn-based RPGs too by a rather huge margin.
FF as a franchise is almost caught up by Assassin's Creed as a franchise when it comes to sales (counting all games including re-releases and spin-offs). Considering FF has been around 20 years more than Assassin's Creed, that's telling SE's market team something.

SE has since the PS2 days pushed FF in the action direction to be appealing to more people.

53
40hrs in and I've yet to experience anything that is just pandering to the masses via market research.

The fact that they changed it into an action game is alone "pandering to the masses".
The storytelling is, for the most part, also easy on the masses. One could go in depth here, but let's just say, it's nothing wrong enjoying a main-stream story like this. The original also had a lot of "pandering to the masses" going on. No need to pretend it didn't.
Design choice, story beats, gameplay, is all there mainly due to marked research. Most, if not all, AAA companies does this. It's no big secret. The only thing I think is not heavily influenced by is all this kingdom hearts stuff. But kingdom hearts is a commercial success so... "Hey, Nomura those KH stuff you made were pretty successful, can you put some of that stuff in?"

There are risks involved though. I would say the most risky move SE has done here is splitting it up into multiple games. It can backfire hard. Depending on sales they may decide to end it early and pretend that it was the plan all along. To be honest, I don't think they have a complete story ready yet. But at least they haven't promised X amount of games like Disney promised ep 7-9, which I don't think need to explained how hard failed as a story.

If they continue to being somewhat "faithful" to the original I'm guessing the next games will do good overall. But if they decide to go all in KH crazy... welp, not easy to say what'll happen. SE will probably look at feedback to decide how much to tone down the KH stuff in the naxt game.

54
.

Fast reply as I don't have time now.

Not pissed, but disappointed (and ammused at the "whisperers" stuff,  lmao, what a mess).

FF7R is a blatant marked-research game with some crazy, over the top kingdom hearts crap thrown in.

Added/changed/retconned story: There are good things here, but mostly main-stream cringe. Would work great in a cartoon with a returning villain each episode. Like TMNT or something.

Graphics, music and overall technical presentation is good.

Music is all good afaict.

The gameplay is not my cup of tea, so I'm not the right person to judge. I tire of these kinds of games very easily. I'm still baffled that not more people are disappointed that this "remake" is another genre then what it's based on.

55
As lazy as I am, I haven't really tried 7h that much yet. I tested out v2 some days ago. If it uses 1.0.6s then it's basically the newest version. You can look at the change log on opening post to see differences.

56
I can see why people would love or hate both systems. After watching my friend playthrough the remake on a stream, the combat is certainly not as hack and slashy as it looks. You have to make a lot of mid-combat choices. And if you don't have a plan, you die.

While I do wish Square stuck with something turn based, it doesn't fully upset me either. It did for awhile.

I think there are tasteful ways to make changes to the original and still be faithful modernization of the original. Resident Evil 2 Remake is fairly close to that mark for me. I loved that game, despite missing some things from the original. I thought it was a faithful modernization.

I think FF7 could have been the same thing. The plot device at the end, and foreshadowed throughout is my main gripe - and what it means for the rest of the series. At the moment is it is a bit vague. I might end up reserving full judgement until all the parts are released. However, at the moment my aprehension is palpable.

Depends on what exactly you mean by modernization. Something is lost from the original RE2 with the addition of free camera. It's not entirely the same type of game anymore. Although, I think they would have made RE1-3 with free camera etc, if they weren't "limited". Probably. I dunno.

In the case of FF7 though, considering battle mechanics only, it was certainly not limitations that made Square chose what type of game to make. Something is gone when you remove battle mechanics entirely (duh), and what you get instead in FF7R is something that feels completely different. Natural evolution? No, this is not the "natural evolution" of turn based games, and it's certainly not a faithful adaptation of it. It could probably be an entirely different type of action game and some people (probably the same people) would still call it a faithful adaptation. Not saying action games are bad btw.

The impression I get however, from reviews and so forth, is that this is indeed thee natural evolution off FF7.
I wonder how people would react if FF7R-2 changes genre again to, lets say, FPS. Would that be bad? Not a natural next step? Why is change bad? Why is it ok for FF7R to change genre from the original, but not FF7R-2 to change genre from FF7R? Personally I would find it interesting if SE does that. To see how people react.

And on the new plot stuff. FF7 originally was a bit too convoluted, imo. The new story elements kinda escalates the convolution exponentially. And is, at least at the face of it, questionable at best, but comes off as horribly juvenile storytelling. It's how I would picture a mid schooler write a FF7 fanfic if they played too much kingdom hearts.

57
The foreshadowing bit is definitely true. Even the intro has foreshadowing.

58
It'll probably settle somewhere between 7-8 I'm guessing. Right now it's the extreme ends that shows, mostly extreme fanboys who rates; hardly a reliable way to measure the "true" score. I've even seen some rate it 0 or 10 just to even out the filed, lol.

One can't deny that the fanboyism has been at all-time high levels, for a loong time now. It's the fanboys who drives the consensus atm, just because how many there are. But some see through SE's seamless manipulative marketing.

...
In the end, how you feel, and how it is supposed to be perceived, doesn't really matter. But the fact remains that SE are manipulative in their marketing by pushing their product in a certain way.
</shemlesspromoting>

https://sidearc.com/square-enix-is-lying-about-final-fantasy-vii-remake/

SE's marketing has an effect. Here are some fanboyquotes (long before release or demo):
Quote
This is how the story was intended to be told from the start.

It would be a waste not to make it (FF7R) action oriented.

FFs have always been action games at heart.

You can finally experience the true FF7 story.

Making the remake an action game stays true to the FF7 spirit.

I'm not triggered; I'm fascinated and amused. It's really a good look at social compliance.

Can't wait for the next "episode" to see what shenanigans SE can muster up. How many mountains will Sephiroth blow up?

59
If there are conflicts in interpretations, I say go for the most reasonable one. A LOT of things are possible, or, not impossible.

It is not impossible for Shinra to blow up the reactor(s) themselves, but the most reasonable interpretation, imo, is that Shinra let Avalanche blow up r5 after r1.

If they retcon Shinra to being the ones who 100% certainly blew up the reactors, it's not necessarily a bad retcon. But, I dunno, did Han shoot first? We can't have the good guys do bad stuff now, can we?

Anyway, it's not technically a retcon if this is a brand-new story.
But if it is indeed a sequel, then it's 100% retcon territory.

60
I just want a 1:1 carbon copy of the original story. Anything added or removed is blasphemy.  ::) ::) ::)

61
Spoiler: show

Hmmm, I was just thinking....
*Commencing useless postulations*
It seems they expand on the FF7 "expanded universe" (EU) here. I'm guessing there will be retconning (haven't there already?).
That means EU is not part of the original game, and that EU + FF7R is a complete different story than the original.

Why?

Because, if it's true that Sephiroth is traveling in time (I'm not convinced yet, perhaps I'm in disbelief) back to the "original story", and every character acts different from what they did in the original, then isn't it logical to assume that what we see is not the original story? And that all EU stuff added to FF7R makes the EU relative to FF7R's story and not the original's?

Still baffled about that this may be a sequel to f*****n AC, lmao. If SE actually intend that to be true my head will collapse into a black hole.

62
General Discussion / Re: FF7 remake discussion time!
« on: 2020-04-06 14:46:25 »
Hahahaha! Man I can't stop laughing...
Some reviews are out, and they are generally ¤%&#¤ SE's d#%&.

I really don't want to single people out, but this was too precious not to share:
This guy is talking about how awesome the story is while showing the most ridiculous DBZ/Matrix scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6ilUU_qROY&t=3m18s
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Nothing personal, it's just sooo dumb, I have no words.

63
General Discussion / Re: FF7 remake discussion time!
« on: 2020-04-05 22:03:48 »
Adding spoiler tag just in case.

Spoiler: show

FF7R is a game that, as far as I can tell, appears to be a reboot of the "FF7 franchise". However, it's called a Remake. But it's actually a sequel?

...

Damn, did SE just invent something here? How the %&#¤ can a Remake be a Sequel? Or is this part of the Reboot thing? Like, FF7R's story has nothing to do with the original's story (except that it's based on it), and the new told story can live on its own without knowing anything about the story it's based on? Or is it truly a sequel? Like we'll get glimpses of the original timeline and stupid crap like that? Man, if all this is true, it smells like bad innovation to me. Perhaps if it weren't SE making it I wouldn't be skeptical... Damn, this just sounds awful.

64
General Discussion / Re: FF7 remake discussion time!
« on: 2020-04-05 06:38:19 »
.
:-o
HAHAHAHAHAHA! IS this for real?! It can't possibly be real... If it is... Omg, that's a new level of stupid. GG SE, you did it again, lmao. Welp, at least I didn't see it coming.  :-D

Sigh, I just wanted them to make a 1:1 carbon copy. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  ::) ::)

65
General Discussion / Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« on: 2020-03-23 10:32:11 »
Ok, I'm not an expert on the subject, but isn't she mini-skirt + socks a japanese schoolgirl thing for old jap pervs?

66
General Discussion / Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« on: 2020-03-20 23:57:43 »
Just want to chip in and say, yes, there was, of course, a creative process behind the original FF7. But the chibi models were not a blueprint for the design. It's not like they started the process and decided the design had to revolve around chibi models. That the game was eventually decided to be made in 3D was probably the biggest factor behind the chibi models. In part because Square, as a company, did not have the fully experience in making 3D games. So they had to, kinda simplify things. If I'm not mistaken they have even admitted this. Please, anyone correct me if I'm completely wrong here.

67
General Discussion / Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« on: 2020-03-19 14:34:07 »
To say you can't know if you like something without trying it is rather silly.

I know I won't like spending hours watching pokemon. I know I wouldn't like getting my kneecaps done in by a sledgehammer. I know I won't like the 2016 Ghostbuster movie.
You probably need to make a fair amount of assumptions, sure, but there are such things as reasonable assumptions.

$60usd for yet another copy of something you already own isnt exactly smart. $60usd for 20-60hrs of new experience in a beloved world sure that makes sense to me, which you can test play for free.

I wouldn't say that original ff7 was manga art style, exaggerated characters sure but that can be chalked up to hardware limitations, in specific max polygons displayable by the PS1, unless your are talking specifically about the concept art, which while nice to look at isn't reflected in game.

Not sure if "manga" is the right word to use here, but the character had a certain "comic/manga" style, yes. Imo, that's obvious. I'm fairly sure DLPB means "manga" as in how they were designed, not how the field models turned out to be due to limitations. Personally I don't like how the words "manga" and "anime" are used like they are something else than comics and animations, but that's another topic. It's not like I don't know what people mean when they say: "that's looks like an anime character". So I guess they serve a purpose.

Quote from: Loaded statements
$20 For a massively polished experiences of something you know and love, with A LOT of extra content, quality of life improvements, bug fixes, huge AI improvements, perfect localization and more is EXACTLY what you want.
$60 For a game, with storytelling and gameplay comparable to DBZ, boring hack and slash, style-over-substance is stupid.

xP. You can make anything look like anything with the right words.

68
FF8 Tools / Re: [PC] Enemy editor - IFRIT (0.11)
« on: 2020-03-18 10:58:38 »
Yes, I haven't tested this with the remaster version. But, iirc, there is some wrong information in the ifrit app. You should in fact extract all files instead of just the valid ones. It's easier to work with if you know what files to use.

69
General Discussion / Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
« on: 2020-03-14 15:06:12 »
I don't really get the 'realism' complaint personally. Yes, the game does look a bit more 'realistic' than it used to, but does that not mean it can't have fantasy elements?
...

Don't know about others, but when I talk about realism in regard of FF7R I mean how SE designed the remake, not the actual setting. It obviously is a world with smagic, materia and summons.
The tone of the game is "realistic" if you will, and it clashes with the mainstream appeal it goes for. To illustrate my point: Imagine if GoT had a mustache-twirling villain going: "Hahaha, I'll get you next time, Stark!" at the end of each episode. Wouldn't that seem a little bit off? Clash with the overall feel? This example is exaggerated, yes, to make my point clear. FF7R isn't that bad.

Most of the criticisms are based off assumptions, and nostalgia. The whole same game just prettier has always rubbed me the wrong way...

The nostalgia card can be lumped right back. "People just like it because of nostalgia". Regarding assumptions, and now I'm talking gameplay, isn't it natural to assume a game will be remade within the same genre?
To be clear, I don't think FF7R looks like a bad game. It's just that SE has disappointed me by pretty much going the opposite direction of what I would have preferred. Not that I'm surprised by the direction SE takes, still, disappointed.

And I don't think anyone has ever made a serious argument for a carbon-copy remake with improved graphics only. Mayyyybeee 15 years ago, but not now.
Seriously, how many times will peeps spout this? I've lost count over how many times I've seen these "You just want the same game with updated graphics" claims. xD

70
General Discussion / Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
« on: 2020-03-07 17:48:40 »
If it was supposed to be realistic, you would get an uncanny valley vibe.  Nothing in the demo actually appears to be going for realism.

SE themselves made it clear they were going for realism. The graphics appear to be very realistic. But the battles don't.
If a thing can be musing it seem to take precedent over a logical flow.

Having been in the military...
They're amateurs. Silly, goofy, much like in the original? It showcases perfectly why they needed to hire Cloud.
Biggs himself says that Cloud is a professional, unlike them.
I'm in the military too and I'm yet to have a female player lay it on me like Jessie. And as Ric pointed out, these are not military characters, they are ammature eco-terrorists. I think that is very clear in both games.
But they act like this is a casual friday. Again, perhaps SE will come up with some perfect explanation(?), or maybe this is the intention. But I believe this falls down to the "spirit of story in gaming" or "cartoon characters" or "don think abouut it". The setting wasn't considered in high regard when writing this part. It was more important to let us who they are, and that could have been done much better.
Sure, it's kind of a nitpick, but the detail matters. It what makes fictional worlds believable.

1. Pretty sure I address this higher up.
I would agree with you if this were a Tom Clancy game. ...
...
Some of the banter is good and does help with character development. ...
Design choice and tone. The design is very different between the versions; how they act has an impact in that regard.

2. You'll have to be more specific on what the conflict is.

What I mean by design mentality is how SE is deciding to create the game in all aspects. How the game should look, feel, and sound etc. Match that with the statements from SE. They are very manipulative. Example from the top of my head: "FF7 remake will be a traditional action RPG like you would expect with focus on realism." Yeah, not a leading statement at all. Why would anyone expect that?
The term "Realism" is a staple to make it seem more appealing. But the game isn't very realistic at all besides how it looks graphically.
In the end, how you feel, and how it is supposed to be perceived, doesn't really matter. But the fact remains that SE are manipulative in their marketing by pushing their product in a certain way. This is rather normal for AAA companies.

When it comes to storytelling in FFs, not everything is bad, of course, but they lean heavily towards style over substance. That's so blatantly self-evident.
It's absolutely fine to like it, but everyone has a limit on what they can handle.
Would it be ok if Pikachu was on the mission and chanted "Pika, pika!" all the time?
What if Wedge actually was a talking carrot that farted a lot?
Rather extreme examples, yes, but the point is to show that everyone has a limit on what they can handle before calling BS.

Hey, if people buy and enjoy the story then more the power to them.

But are you pretty like cloud

Dude, Jessie would die if she saw me. 8)

71
General Discussion / Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
« on: 2020-03-07 04:30:43 »
I'm in the military too and I'm yet to have a female player lay it on me.

Edit: currently responding lol

72
General Discussion / Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
« on: 2020-03-06 23:43:08 »
I was going to write a rebuttal to all of that, but instead I'll just ask why you can't like it? 


Like, is it nostalgia? Or something deeper?

A repeat in TL;DR version:
1. The tone of the setting does not match how the characters act overall. 2. The design mentality is in conflict with the actual design.
The technological evolution in gaming have been great, why does storytelling need to regress to the point which, in part, it has to rely on trivial musings? (hint: welp, again, we know why)

I get not liking it, that's cool, but there's such anger there.   It comes off like Trump and his cries of fake news.  "The Russians didn't interfere!!"  Except, yes, they clearly did.

I know a lot of people expected this to be strawberries, myself included.  The problem is, it actually appears to be quite good.  Maybe not better (due to my own nostalgia goggles), but still surprisingly good.

Dude, I'm not angry. If anything, I tried to be rather comical in my criticism, which I guess can be intrepeted as angry ranting (hard to convey your emotional state by text only).
I'm disappointed by the direction SE is headed and fascinated by the fanboyism, yes :). Trump....??
On what I expected: If I'm not mistaken, I believe I mentioned somewhere that I expected the gameplay to be ok but that the story would annoy me. At least that's how I remember it, but me and my former self don't always agree. :P

1-8

All these things are doable, and have been done, in many battle systems, including turn based.

And, not a response to anyone in particular (lol these walls of text should be documented for future archeologists) (I'm a bit drunk so I feel I have to write more):
Back when, Square had a lot of failed attempts to get FF popular in the west. Making the FFs easier was a way of making them more appealing. That combined with the 3D of FF7 definitely helped getting FF to the mainstream.
And this is my main criticism of most of the "old" FFs. They are too fucking easy. Why do I need those ultimate weapons? Glamour?
Today, gaming is a much bigger part of the culture. To the point where calling gamers "casuals" can be considered an insult. The tables have turned. Nerds rule! Learn how to code goddammit!. Marked research teams knows this, and is THE MAIN reason why AAA companies strives to make their games more gamer friendly (harder). They do this in order to please the "true" gamers, or whatever lall (yes there are other reasons, devs aren't souless zombies).
Is this "bad"? Not self-evedently at least. Imo it's a good thing gaming has been generally accepted as a genuine form of entertainment. But at the same time it bears the mainstream baggage of, for example, stupid batle banter. And out of character behaviour. Like you you see in FF7R demo.

1. Multiple games. I'm worried they will lack the same quality, that they will take forever to release and that gameplay will change from one of the games to the other. I'd like the games to be the same with just new story.

Would it really be that bad if they changed the genre of the game. I mean, come on, just like it! (sorry couldn't resist, nothing against you).

Still not angry. If FF7R will be the best game to ever grace God's green earth, I will be a happy man. :)

73
General Discussion / Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
« on: 2020-03-05 17:04:36 »
PRE-EDIT: Wow this turned out to be a wall of text, that was not my intention xP. Sorry in advance, I don't wanna ruin the experience for anyone...
Take all this with a grain of salt. Haven't tried the demo myself.

Saw a few playthroughs on YT out of curiosity. Not gonna lie, I cringed a lot. Not only from the game; the fanboy levels are through the roof.

FF7R: Hack and slash - style over substance edition.

No, seriously, it LOOKS like a hack and slash game with some tweaks (probably feels different if you play yourself, I dunno...). Nothing wrong with hack and slash games, but isn't this supposed to feign realism?
Yes, I know that you have to have some suspension of disbelief in a fantasy setting, and that the action can't be 1-to-1 realistic in certain styles of games to make it fun/interesting or whatever, but the slicing and dicing here is WAY over the top for a realistic setting. IF you are supposed to get this realism impression from the overall design I have no idea what they were thinking. To me it just looks dumb, and I would rather prefer it be 110% balls-to-the-walls DBZ. You know, if the game didn't take itself too seriously. If you're trying to look cool like this why not go all out?
(lol who are we kidding, we know why, sales, mainstream, all that. The term "realism" here is a term used to make it seem more appealing to the mainstream.)
Also, you need Barret to shot things up on ledges, but why, Cloud can jump like a ¤/¤%#&8.

Classic mode is NOT the same as original FF7. Not that anyone expected that, but the devs pointed out that this mode was for those who would prefer the original gameplay. It's basically a super easy mod as far as I can tell.

Spoiler: show
The banter from Biggs, Wedge and Jessie was well made if you ignore the setting. Jessie seems like a total player. But the attitude and tone they create is off from what their mission is.
They are blowing up a reactor, killing people, doing eco-terrorism, but they act like sunday morning cartoon characters about it.
I mean, the comments they give to Cloud when they leave the guards to him, the nonchalant attitude, the carefree banter, etc.
Example: First they are hiding from the guards, and when the guards notice Cloud they sneak behind the guards to move on. Only... They don't sneak. Before leaving they make sure to chant: "You got this Cloud!". It's so $%&£ dang stupid, and disregards almost the entire situation. Why even hide in the 1st place?
I dunno, maybe they smoked some greens before they started the mission. That could explain their behavior. They do resemble hippies at some level. I mean, their behavior CAN be explained, but I can hardly imagine there will be some super awesome logical explanation.

Barret acts like a brat sometimes, which seems out of character to me (or perhaps that's what they aim for?). For example when they enter the reactor, he goes on a tantrum because Cloud doesn't answer him right away. I know he doesn't trust Cloud, but, geez, his patience is in negative space at that scene.
Also, the battle banter really made me cringe for the most part. This has plagued soooo many games, please make it stop!


Cringe reactions from the top of my head:
"Omg, there is a map!!??!!?"
"Omg, you interact with stuff??!!?!?!"
"Omg, there can be stuff in the way that prevent bullets from hitting me??!?11?!1!?"
After killing 3 enemies: "Omg this is the best battle system ever!!!!11!!1"
(yes, there are people who mash square on the controller, kills the 1st couple of enemies, and all of a sudden it's the best battle-system ever.)
"This is a deeper look at a story we thought we knew, with new scenes."
...lol

Things that have been normal in games for over 40 years is now super impressive for some reason *cough*fanboying*cough*.

74
General Discussion / Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
« on: 2020-02-14 18:23:08 »
Nobuo Uematsu proves to be a legend yet again.

If you are accepted as a legend, you don't have to prove it again? :P But yaeh, listened to the soundtrack. Good stuff!

75
FF9 Tools / Re: [PC] Save editor - Memoria (0.6.3.1)
« on: 2020-02-08 11:12:36 »
Oh, I dindn't know about that. I'll probably have time to look at it on monday, if not hopefully some time next week.

Is there a way to fix the characters names with this?, after I edited my save all my names were doubled (ZidaneZidane etc) but changing them in the editor doesn't seem to fix it properly.

Hmm, I'm unable to reproduce this. Are you playing on steam, and do you remember what you changed?

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