FF7 + FF9 Field Maps

[markul]

I made many maps from FF8 to FF7 , so i was thinking of trying  the same with the FF9 maps. I saw that there is a tool similar to Makou Reactor and Deling: Hades Workshop.  Has a lot of things and info from FF9 game...also walkmesh! (Great work, Tirlititi!).
So in Deling the process was easy, basically ,i copied the info and made some little adjustments, choosing the right map to copy it, but now its not so easy... of course without the info of every triangle coordinates of the maps, i couldnt do anything....but for these maps i dont have info of the camera coordinates  of the map and the info of the  triangle ID linked of every triangle....
But i think its possible migrate some maps, im going to try to recreate the ice caves, could be interesting....(besides, now i have a "very fast" method to create the triangles of the walkmesh in Makou Reactor    )
Tools : Palmer , Makou Reactor and Hades Workshop

Map1

Spoiler: show

Map2

Spoiler: show

Map 3

Spoiler: show

Map 4

Spoiler: show

[Tirlititi]

Wow, impressive
I can surely provide the camera matrix of each map, but I never really figured out how that matrix should be interpreted (the things I tested back then were always a bit off). Or if you need other kind of informations, feel free to ask. I never used the FF7 modding tools myself, except 7th Heaven as a player.

[markul]

Wow, impressive
I can surely provide the camera matrix of each map, but I never really figured out how that matrix should be interpreted (the things I tested back then were always a bit off). Or if you need other kind of informations, feel free to ask. I never used the FF7 modding tools myself, except 7th Heaven as a player.

Thank you!Yeah, i think that soon or later i will pass to your thread of Hades Workshop, with some questions      
If you are able to extract that data of the camera that could be great!(and a less problem for me  :_D ). For now i can do a camera config similar ,but not the same(at least is playable ).
I dont really understand very well how that works, i learn by try and error, but this is how i think it works (in ff7, but as i see in Deling and your tool, its seems that more or less they work in the same way) :


The data of the camera has 4 coordinates (xyz). The first three of them I THINK that the game use it to create something like a 3d cube (i think this affect to the scale of the models, because when i tested things, some of my results are that the appearance of Cloud looks like a piece of paper O_o) .The 4th coordinate, its used to position the camera inside that cube.

[Tirlititi]

The first 3 lines look like a matrix, yes.
It's not exactly a 3D cube, but it can relate to one, depending on how it is interpreted. But in any case, it's a mathematical device.

Here are the different numbers I have for the camera of these two maps. If you can try and see what you need amongst them and in which order, I can generate a file containing all the coordinates for all the maps.

Code: [Select]

Ice Cavern/Outside
Proj = 588
Matrix =
4096 -14 -32
0 3451 -1763
35 1645 3697
Position = 6 -379 -1190
CenterOffset = 0 -7
WidthHeight = 352 560
vrp = 160 192 112 448
Depth = -1

Ice Cavern/Entrance
Proj = 718
Matrix =
4093 -10 152
0 3814 286
-153 -266 4083
Position = -319 1246 9176
CenterOffset = 0 -136
WidthHeight = 320 368
vrp = 160 160 112 256
Depth = -196
Maybe the matrix should be "transposed", that is, instead of using these for the Entrance:

Code: [Select]

x: 4093 y: -10 z: 152
x: 0 y: 3814 z: 286
x: -153 y: -266 z: 4083The numbers may need to be symmetrized like this:

Code: [Select]

x: 4093 y: 0 z: -153
x: -10 y: 3814 z: -266
x: 152 y: 286 z: 4083

[markul]

Hmmmm i had no lucky with the Entrance map, i tried with many combinations, but nope, i only got crashes and ...strange/spooky results.



Im gonna try with the Outside map, maybe comparing results between them i could see something more.
Thanks for the data!

EDIT:Nothing , maybe there are other parameters that affect the coordinates? Well, for now i will continue with the old way ...

[Tirlititi]

That's too bad

I am fairly sure that it's not "other parameters" that is the problem, it's most likely the fact that they changed a bit the way cameras work between FF7 and FF9. You know, when the system is created, the devs decide for example that the coordinate system will be:

Code: [Select]

1st number: left to right coordinate (negative is on the left, positive is on the right)
2nd number: front to back coordinate
3rd number: bottom to top coordinateBut it's arbitrary. They could have used them in different orders or with different meanings.
For camera parameters, it's the same: knowing the correct number doesn't help if you don't know what these numbers correspond to. Also, there are much more arbitrary choices that can be made concerning camera parameters than for the coordinate system. I hoped that they didn't change the meanings of camera parameters between the different games but I'm afraid that's what is going on there (even though they kept some part of it, like 4096 being the unit).

[markul]

(even though they kept some part of it, like 4096 being the unit).

Now that you mention that...i remebered that in a pdf with specific details of ff7 files, mentioned something about that,4096 its the length of the vector.  I was thinking if that could mean also that every distance from point 0 to Axis1 or axis2 or axis3 could it be 4096 , and it is, i checked other camera axis from ff7 maps and the distances are always 4096(or 4095 sometimes).
So for example , in the Outside map:
4096 -14 -32   = 4096.148923   OK
0 3451 -1763 = 3875.25096   KO
35 1645 3697 = 4046.610804 KO (but near)
 I tried with other combinations and changing signs, but its the same more or less.


i checked also the coordinates of the other map and happens the same, ,with many combinations,its like some values are missing.   Could be like you say, maybe in FF9 it works different,but maybe if i could make some adjustments in some values to reach the 4096 value , maybe it works, i guess i must try that at least.

Edit: Definitely, the coordinates doesnt work in the same way as ff7

[markul]

I been able to prepare 2 more.
The map 4 was a pain, it takes me so much time to find a good config position of the camera that fits in the background but in the end i made it(I would have liked to do it with camera zoom and automatic camera scrolling while the player moves... but this was my best result ).

Map 3

Spoiler: show

Map 4

Spoiler: show

One advice if someone wants to try this also... the FF9 triangles of the walkmesh are grouped in "walkpaths" , and every walkpath has his own coordinates position, so when you are going to put the triangles in ff7, you must increase the coordinates of the triangles with the coordinates of the walkpaths.