Author Topic: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums  (Read 271865 times)

anaho

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #150 on: 2013-04-19 19:10:05 »
1.) Ambient/ Omni/ World/ Hemi (whatever lol) washes away a lot of details, I think this is what you mean by low contrast.
2.) Walls and Floor look to flat and just like shades of 2-3 colours.3.) Wood texture looks so the same on every object.
3.) Porcelane and lamp and flowers look very good. They are the most detailed objects but take the least space.
4.) Towel on table looks good, carpet looks flat.


anaho

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #151 on: 2013-04-19 19:13:27 »
Lighting: Kill the hemi and use fill lights ( turn of spec) to get rid of completely black shadows.
Or use a proper rendering engine like Cycles. Will get you much better looking shadows, glass and reflections. And hours to wait until a render is finished ;)
Texturing: Can´t really give any specific tips other than having simple UV´s help a lot. In Cycles you can resolve a lot in the shader directly, maybe take a look?

It is a nice looking scene. Would be a shame if you dont push it to the next level.
« Last Edit: 2013-04-19 19:24:45 by anaho »

Mayo Master

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #152 on: 2013-04-19 20:01:48 »
Thanks a lot for your feedback  :)  That will be helpful when I am able to revise this scene. Currently, I have annoying limitations because my laptop is so old and slow. As the scene gets complicated and the file grows bigger, many things become impossible. Mostly:
- I can't do any proper render anymore, even with a downsized render. So, to test all the lighting/textures (which I've mostly done by going back and forth between the original image and the rendered pic), it becomes unfeasible.
- I'm limited on polys, so I can't make enough subsurf to apply displacement on most of my textures.

Anyway...
1. Yes, that's what I meant by "low contrast", everything looks flat. The problem with ambient lighting is that it cancels bumpmaps (which are revealed by a preferential direction of the lighting). If I don't use ambient lighting, then I'm wondering how I am going to light the external side of the walls. Or do I have to combine 2 separate renders with different lighting conditions?
2. I relied on bumpmapping for the walls and the floor. I could ramp it up, and while decreasing ambient lighting, hopefully it will look less flat. As for the colors, maybe it needs more shades on the flagstones (do you recommend the use of a photo texture?), however I'm not sure I need more shades on the walls (after all, I would think the walls are painted), unless you meant to apply a more elaborate dirt map or something. As for wood textures, I did try to have some variations there, I can try to have other texture images to get in there.
3. Thanks. The vases were easy, while I went creative with the porcelain. I used special flower fonts to make the UVs  :)   The flowers took me some time, but I ended up with a decent method. I will make that "make a flower" tutorial some day  :P
4. I'd like to make the carpet less flat, and the one in your scene would be very much like what I'd like to achieve. Did you use displacement on your carpet, or were bumpmaps enough? I used only bumpmaps, however once again the ambient lighting killed them.

Then... at this point I've stuck to Blender internal rendering engine. I've never used cycles - I don't think my current laptop can handle it (the GPU of my laptop is very poor). However I think it's worth looking into it, I'll do that.

anaho

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #153 on: 2013-04-20 13:36:41 »
1.) I suspect that you have relatively low RAM count if the scene doesn´t render at all. Having little CPU power is a problem as well, but it only forces you to wait longer.
Things you can do to get higher poly count: Disable raytracing ( might be impossible for a lot of scenes but you seem to use buffer shadows anyway) or use Cycles.
Having all even quads on the object you want to tesellate helps a lot as well ( I suspect it will only be the floor and maybe the walls).
Using .jpgs instead of .tgas or .pngs can help but they have less quality, however I find that hard to notice.

2.) I find the walls look better than the floor. Didn´t you model the cobblestones by hand? They absolutely don´t stand out at all. Maybe extracting them further out, and mixing in a grunge map in on the concrete already does the job.
That Omni light makes bumpmaps pretty useless, unfortunately. Is there AO in the scene, btw? It looks like it is either of, or set to add. Setting it to multiply will also give you more depth.

4.) They are strands.

Seriously, give Cycles more than a try. It handles heavy geometry much better, and the overall quality is just superior. With BI in scenes like that all you can do is is throw around a bunch of lights and literally hope for the best.
You don´t need a powerful GPU to use it. In fact I am using it with a an HD4250, and that thing is probably the slowest GPU you can think of. Just make sure to use a small window ( not fullscreen) if you switch to realtime preview.
« Last Edit: 2013-04-20 13:41:49 by anaho »

Sapphire

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #154 on: 2013-04-22 12:30:10 »
Fabulous work there mate.

Mayo Master

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #155 on: 2013-04-22 14:20:27 »
...
1.) Yeah, my laptop doesn't have a lot of RAM. That was a big limitation whenever I wanted to do some physics (could handle cloth sim, but not much smoke and fluid sim). Lighting creating soft shadows were also crashing. As for raytracing, I tend to prefer that over buffer shadows in order to render transparent materials, as raytracing enables me to do it with actual refraction indexes. Then... come to think of it, I don't think I have a single tesselated object on that scene. I didn't even try, else I know my laptop wouldn't have handled the necessary amount of polys.
Hopefully I should get a new PC (actually a rebuilt 4 years old pc) soon, which should help me with these problems.

2.) I did model the coblestones by hand. Though, after a fashion, I wanted them to be somewhat flat, thinking of practical matters (no one would like to have a cobblestoned floor in house, it'd be a pain to clean!). Still, as you mentioned, they look way to flat. The thing is: I originally calibrated the amount of bumpmap based on the results with hard-shadow lighting (because my laptop couldn't handle soft shadows), and that setting was ill adapted to soft shadow lighting (the bumps need to be magnified considerably, like x5, to give decent results). I forgot to change that in my previous renders. Then, I could also extrude them a little bit more. As for AO, actually you're probably right. I did put AO in the scene, but I don't know whether it's "add" or "multiply", I'll have to check. That last point was something I was not aware of, so thanks for the tip!

3.) There's no 3.)

4.) They're strands? Do you mean it as a Materials setting, or did you make hair strands based on a particle system? 

Fabulous work there mate.

Thanks! I hope I can give you some motivation for continuing your awesome Midgar model, or make a field screen  :)

Sapphire

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #156 on: 2013-04-23 03:26:54 »

Thanks! I hope I can give you some motivation for continuing your awesome Midgar model, or make a field screen  :)

Sorry buddy, bad news i'm afraid. As I was going through all my stuff that I was able to salvage during a format it appears as though I backed up the wrong Midgar file I am pretty far back now but that's okay, it just means i've made room to perfect what needs to be.

Mayo Master

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #157 on: 2013-04-29 04:31:41 »
Hi folks,

Just to show that I've started to work on mds5_w. I actually got a "new" computer, in fact I tried to repurpose a PC that was being disused in my work... unfortunately, it turned out that I have only a chipset acting as a graphic card, which is terrible. It has a bit more CPU and RAM than my laptop, but the GPU is so poor that it creates aliasing problems on the renders.
Anyway, back on the mds5_w scene (weapon shop in the slums, set up inside the what remains of a bus): I only have "dummy" textures at the moment, I didn't fiddle with that very much. I made some very basic lighting. I will have to look into that when I work with the "cycles" rendering engine - except that I don't think it's an option with my current GPU. Even though I think I started fine, there are a few issues on that scene that I'd like to discuss... so first, here's my current scene:


The original picture can be viewed at: http://mirror.ff7data.com.ar/ff7/data/field/flevel.lgp/mds5_w.png.

So... there are mostly 2 things that have been bothering me in that scene. First is the seat on the left hand side, near the back wall of the bus, where one of the shop clerk sits. This particular seat is actually considerably smaller that all the other seats on the scene. I thought of resizing it so that it matches the others, but it looks like the walkmesh in that area corresponds to the small height of the seat. So...
a/ I can carry on with a seat whose size matches the other, but we'll have to test how that'd look in game
b/ I keep the seat tiny, and we'll have to assume that a kid's seat is being used in that place.

The other part that concerns me is much worse: the bus driver seat, dashboard, etc. In the original picture, it's actually a complete nonsense. The seat is misaligned with the cabin, the height of the seat and its position would make it impossible to see the road when driving, it's a mess really. I made some corrections already in my version (the seat is closer to the dashboard, higher, and the steering wheel is more vertical, like in an actual bus), but if that's fine with you, I'd like to redesign that part quite a bit. I think the original picture from the outside of the bus (http://mirror.ff7data.com.ar/ff7/data/field/flevel.lgp/mds5_1.png) could be used as some reference (in addition to some photos of real buses). A redesign of this section would not be a problem as far as the walkmesh is concerned.

Well, actually there's a third thing that may need to be corrected. There's some sort of metallic handrail+grid between the bus driver seat and a passenger seat behind it. In the original picture, this handrail/grid is in the middle of the walkmesh  ???  I'm of a mind to put it on the edge of the walkmesh (moving it towards the front of the bus), especially since redesigning the bus driver seat section will move this part more towards the front of the bus, as well.

So... that's about it for the moment, some feedback would be appreciated.
 

mystery_editor

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #158 on: 2013-04-29 08:14:37 »
It wouldn't make any sense to have a seat that is that dramatically different in size. Could you substitute it for another kind of seat that would logically be that size?

Also, although there is a walkmesh in that area, there isn't any characters actually walking in that area, correct? So would it matter as long as it looked correct with the sitting NPC?

SpooX

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #159 on: 2013-04-29 08:32:10 »
Just to show that I've started to work on mds5_w. I actually got a "new" computer, in fact I tried to repurpose a PC that was being disused in my work... unfortunately, it turned out that I have only a chipset acting as a graphic card, which is terrible. It has a bit more CPU and RAM than my laptop, but the GPU is so poor that it creates aliasing problems on the renders.
you could use that old baby for different purposes as well, I just set up a NAS with Nas4free, with a low powered PC to have all my files in a central place and available from any computer I might be working on. :)

So... there are mostly 2 things that have been bothering me in that scene. First is the seat on the left hand side, near the back wall of the bus, where one of the shop clerk sits. This particular seat is actually considerably smaller that all the other seats on the scene. I thought of resizing it so that it matches the others, but it looks like the walkmesh in that area corresponds to the small height of the seat. So...
a/ I can carry on with a seat whose size matches the other, but we'll have to test how that'd look in game
b/ I keep the seat tiny, and we'll have to assume that a kid's seat is being used in that place.
could be a child-seat, I wouldn't worrie about the size difference.

The other part that concerns me is much worse: the bus driver seat, dashboard, etc. In the original picture, it's actually a complete nonsense. The seat is misaligned with the cabin, the height of the seat and its position would make it impossible to see the road when driving, it's a mess really...

Well, actually there's a third thing that may need to be corrected. There's some sort of metallic handrail+grid between the bus driver seat and a passenger seat behind it. In the original picture, this handrail/grid is in the middle of the walkmesh  ???

About the other things....considering we are in the slums, where everything around is being used, trash is dropped there from the plates, so it is most unlikely the bus will ever drive away. A driver seat might be adjustable, the rail might be moved to a different place... who knows. I wouldn't worrie about it all too much.

Use the force your instincts Luke
 8-)

Mayo Master

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #160 on: 2013-04-29 15:18:51 »
Also, although there is a walkmesh in that area, there isn't any characters actually walking in that area, correct? So would it matter as long as it looked correct with the sitting NPC?
could be a child-seat, I wouldn't worrie about the size difference.
I believe one of the shop clerk actually sits there. I think I'll run with the assumption that it's a child seat and match the original image on that, then.

Use the force your instincts Luke
My instincts tell me that the original designer might have had too much sake on the night before handling that scene  :P  That, and the fact that the outdoor scene of the slums and this one were handled by two different artists. I think I'll re-arrange that section around the driver's place to something I like better.

As for this pc... it would have little use as a data storage unit, it's hard drive is about 100 Gb, while I also have a 1 Tb external hard drive. I think I'll just man up and invest into a good PC and be rid of most limitations (I'm thinking something along the lines of a i7 core with 12 Gb ram and an okay GPU, that should do it and remain below $1000).


ajthedj747

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #161 on: 2013-04-29 19:44:48 »
As for this pc... it would have little use as a data storage unit, it's hard drive is about 100 Gb, while I also have a 1 Tb external hard drive. I think I'll just man up and invest into a good PC and be rid of most limitations (I'm thinking something along the lines of a i7 core with 12 Gb ram and an okay GPU, that should do it and remain below $1000).
May I recommend the one I bought from Cyber Power PC, except use a different seller for your purchase:

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INVOICE NO. 00XXXXXX
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Shankifer

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #162 on: 2013-04-29 21:37:38 »
May I recommend the one I bought from Cyber Power PC, except use a different seller for your purchase:

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INVOICE NO. 00XXXXXX
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 ORDER DETAIL
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 ID-INFO         380548 CFGI3Z                                           1       0.00       0.00
 MODEL1          C SERIES                                                1       0.00       0.00
 SW-152-154      AMD CRYSIS 3 + BIOSHOCK INFINITE                        1       0.00       0.00
 KB-159-101      AZZA MULTIMEDIA/ INTERNET USB KEYBOARD                  1       0.00       0.00
 MO-125-101      AZZA OPTICAL USB GAMING MOUSE                           1       0.00       0.00
 CU-208-223      INTEL I7-3770 3.4 GHZ 8M LGA1155 RETAIL                 1     649.00     649.00
 HD-504-701      64GB ADATA SP900 SATA III 6.0Gb/s SSD                   1      11.00      11.00
 HD-403-303      2TB SATA III 6GB/S 7200RPM 64MB CACHE 3.5" HD           1     112.00     112.00
 RM-317-115      8 GB DDR3 PC3 PC1333                                    2      44.00      88.00
 FA-WATER-101    ASETEK 510LC 120MM WATERCOOLER                          1       0.00       0.00
 FA-104-116      CASE FAN 120 MM                                         1       0.00       0.00
 CS-157-519      BLACK THERMALTAKE COMMANDER MID TOWER NO POWER          1     -14.00     -14.00
 FD-ASS-107      BLACK 3.5 MOUNTING KIT                                  1       0.00       0.00
 CD-146-101      BLACK SAMSUNG 24X DVDRW                                 1       0.00       0.00
 PS-121-109      CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX V2  POWER SUPPLY                    1      71.00      71.00
 VC-221-101      AMD RADEON 7970 3GB DDR5 PCI-E 3.0                      1     402.00     402.00
 SW-170-105      WINDOWS 7 PROFESSIONAL LICENSE                          1     135.00     135.00
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 DISC            SPRING0410 (5% Discount)                                1     -75.45     -75.45
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8GB Ram? get rid of that 2 tera drive and just reuse an old HDD use the SSD for boot and long term programs. Go AMD and save yourself about 500 dollars since the graphics card is AMD. Also make sure the graphics card is on a card with a good heat-sink and fan. XFX has a dual fan setup. The Sapphires are cheaper but they get hot real quick and for the price difference I'd rather have the XFX. For rendering and editing I would grab an 8 core FX as they just dropped to about 170 bucks and you can run them at about 4.0 (which is lower than the quad-core, but the power gets distributed much better. grab at least 16gb ram, preferably like 32 to help out on render times.

Thats a quick breakdown, I just had to post considering that build posted before me is overpriced and underpowered, and that card is not worth 650 dollars. I'd also gram something with a 27in tall case to improve airflow but thats just me. If I had the know-how I could probl render a lot of shit for you guys and never put my PC under much stress.

I used to 3d model but have sinced lost my programs and I get frustrated with blender because I don't understand it lol.
if anyone ever needs anything done and can send me what program to use and what to do, I can try to lend some PC power, just pm me

Cyberman

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #163 on: 2013-04-30 00:37:54 »
The original picture can be viewed at: http://mirror.ff7data.com.ar/ff7/data/field/flevel.lgp/mds5_w.png.

So... there are mostly 2 things that have been bothering me in that scene. First is the seat on the left hand side, near the back wall of the bus, where one of the shop clerk sits. This particular seat is actually considerably smaller that all the other seats on the scene. I thought of resizing it so that it matches the others, but it looks like the walkmesh in that area corresponds to the small height of the seat. So...
a/ I can carry on with a seat whose size matches the other, but we'll have to test how that'd look in game
b/ I keep the seat tiny, and we'll have to assume that a kid's seat is being used in that place.
I suggest replacing the seat with an object like a box or something (the seat isn't used anyhow so... I wouldn't care if it looked like a box instead). You could make it a baby seat for a car instead for example :D

The other part that concerns me is much worse: the bus driver seat, dashboard, etc. In the original picture, it's actually a complete nonsense. The seat is misaligned with the cabin, the height of the seat and its position would make it impossible to see the road when driving, it's a mess really. I made some corrections already in my version (the seat is closer to the dashboard, higher, and the steering wheel is more vertical, like in an actual bus), but if that's fine with you, I'd like to redesign that part quite a bit. I think the original picture from the outside of the bus (http://mirror.ff7data.com.ar/ff7/data/field/flevel.lgp/mds5_1.png) could be used as some reference (in addition to some photos of real buses). A redesign of this section would not be a problem as far as the walkmesh is concerned.
Yeah it always puzzled me about that chair. Also no broken glass visible inside (heh).
Well, actually there's a third thing that may need to be corrected. There's some sort of metallic handrail+grid between the bus driver seat and a passenger seat behind it. In the original picture, this handrail/grid is in the middle of the walkmesh  ???  I'm of a mind to put it on the edge of the walkmesh (moving it towards the front of the bus), especially since redesigning the bus driver seat section will move this part more towards the front of the bus, as well.
Well walking through a handrail does seem odd no? :D
So... that's about it for the moment, some feedback would be appreciated.
You mentioned an old machine and the graphics system on it. You may wish to uprade with a display card (I did on this machine cause the built in one was a 'wtf' do I need this for kind of thing) and disable to iinfernal err internal one. I have 8 gigs on this OLD machine (yep it's 3 years old) it's a quad core and runs OK dokey. I've been looking at upgrades recently myself, but I don't really want to talk about what my next machine will be (bigger is all I can say). All the machines at work have the built in display system disabled and have NVIDIA qudro cards in them because of the huge difference it makes in just doing simple tasks. Running Xp with 2G ram and a quadro card makes my work a lot easier (I do beat the snot out of the machine too I run several applications and compile stuff simultaneously).

Anyhow if you check what bus you have change your Vid card installed instead. That is a good upgrade you don't need a gaming monster card but a good display card IS priceless :D I rarely play games on machines. Save maybe oblivion (which is mostly because I can't mod it on the <censored> PS3 system).

Cyb

syntax error

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #164 on: 2013-04-30 20:41:43 »
I am not taking part in this project so a bit off topic
but I still use a dual Pentium III 1260mhz that can take up to 4GB RAM.

Nightmarish

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #165 on: 2013-05-07 01:23:21 »
I believe that in the original the seat is lower and the wheel has a different angle.
Also the square window has that slide thingy on the middle (2 glasses).

Mayo Master

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #166 on: 2013-05-07 23:40:01 »
I believe that in the original the seat is lower and the wheel has a different angle.
Also the square window has that slide thingy on the middle (2 glasses).
About the drivers' seat and wheel: yes you are right, in the original picture the seat is lower, the the wheel is set at a different angle. I started to change that deliberately because when you model it, the original combination seat/wheel/dashboard is completely messed up (basically, a driver wouldn't be able to see the road). Modifying that area wouldn't be a problem as far as the walkmesh is concern, so I'll do that.
About the window: again, you are right. Since I posted the picture, I already modified that window quite a bit and arranged it with 2 overlapping sliding panels, which will fit the original description and be realistic.
As a side note, I also started to work on another field screen from the sewers (colne_be3), using Cycles as a rendering engine. I hope to post some pictures soon.

Timu Sumisu

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #167 on: 2013-05-08 00:58:28 »
when you model it, the original combination seat/wheel/dashboard is completely messed up (basically, a driver wouldn't be able to see the road).

Maybe thats why its a weapon shop now

Nightmarish

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #168 on: 2013-05-08 21:35:28 »
Great to hear Mayo Master.
I can only hope you find motivation to finish every scenario you start with, you have great skills.

Mayo Master

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #169 on: 2013-05-09 16:21:30 »
Thanks for the encouragement  :)
Well, the motivation is there, don't worry about that. I only wish I had more time and a better computer (hell, I don't have the time to get a better computer  ::) ).

Mayo Master

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #170 on: 2013-08-31 17:16:19 »
Hi folks,

Just letting you know: I've converted my "old" HD version of mds5_dk with Palmer and uploaded that to the WIP repo. It's 2 .png files that can be found under /Field Scenes/mds5_dk/. To make it work, they need to be placed in /mods/<modpath>/field/mds5_dk/. You're welcome to give it a try.
As far as this particular scene is concerned, I'll do an overhaul later as I plan to redo the lighting and texturing with the Cycles render. That's why I didn't upload it as a "Final" version.

Mayo Master

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #171 on: 2013-10-07 06:01:28 »
Getting started on a new one, while I'm running the fluid sim for colne_b1...

It's only 50% res here, no point in making a super-detailed render if I got the scene only 3% done  :P

Mayo Master

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #172 on: 2014-01-06 01:33:56 »
Hi everyone and happy new year,

I've resumed working on my scenes during the vacations. I only hope to be able to maintain some kind of pace once the holidays are over.
Anyway, here's a progress update on mds5_1, I hope you enjoy it.


LeonhartGR

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #173 on: 2014-01-06 15:15:25 »
Happy New Year Mayo! Keep it up!

Killerx20

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Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« Reply #174 on: 2014-01-06 20:20:44 »
Happy new year everybody!
Mayo that's looking really good, cant wait to see the lighting from the monitor and buildings put into that!