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Messages - hian

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Graphical / Re: FFVII in Retroarch + ReShade
« on: 2017-05-05 01:03:50 »
Looks fantastic. How do I do this?

I think it very unlikely that Sephiroth is a puppet of Jenova. Exhibit 1, the largest of Jenova cell-cultures is in Shinra building, yet Jenova breaks out, takes on Sephiroth's form and travels to where he is, in North Crater, which strongly suggests Sephiroth is exerting his will on Jenova, not the other way around.
Jenova has no reason what so ever to favor Sephiroth, or go to special lengths to facilitate what is ultimately in his best interest, not hers.
This is brought to crystal clear light with exhibit 2 - the fact that you kill Jenova prior to killing Sephiroth, whom is essentially acting as a shield trying to stop Cloud and Co from reaching Sephiroth, and when she dies nothing changes what so ever as far as Sephiroth is concerned. If fact, he doesn't even seem to notice or care.

Finally, although this is part speculation.
Fact : Jenova was based off of Carpenter's "The Thing", and the FFVII's concept stage of productions tied together with Parasite Eve, which features organisms that fit the theme of "The Thing" and are similar to Jenova.
Speculation : Jenova is not sentient. In fact, Jenova is kinda like a virus, the form of which we see in the game is probably just the last human/ancient host of it.
Jenova cells exert some kind of influence on an instinctual level through biological alteration, but Sephiroth having been born with it, and then falling through the life-stream absorbing the knowledge and power of the Ancients puts the virus in check, and uses it to further his own agenda, an agenda that is party influenced by the change in his nature as a result of having been born with Jenova cells to begin with.

Jenova being in control of Sephiroth just doesn't compute with what the game tells us explicitly though, just saying it makes even less sense thematically with what is arguably being implicitly stated too.

I mean, the idea of some sort of collective consciousness between Jenova recipients is kind of a core plot point of the game

Sephiroth/Jenova exerting control over people with the cells in them happens yes - extracting memories from one person and feeding it to another? There's nothing in the original to suggest that is happening.

- that's how Reunion works,

Reunion is simply a calling between the cells. It's never said to be some kind of conscious process from the main cluster that would indicate it could rummage through people's memories, extract the pertinent ones for some grand plot and then feed them to Cloud.
It doesn't even make sense.
Why would Jenova enforce Cloud's delusion? What possible reason, at that point in the plot, would Jenova have to reshape Cloud's personality?
To accept that explanation of events, Jenova would have to be A.) capable of rummaging through Zack's memories after he is already dead, and then plant them in Cloud's head, and B.) she/it would have to have a reason to do that despite the fact that this conflicts with the narrative indicating that Jenova awakens in Shinra building when Cloud comes there (after all, if she was already awake, doing stuff like manipulating Cloud, why didn't she break out earlier?)

In the original, Cloud's mind is being messed with by Sephiroth's conscious efforts through the Jenova cells.
Since Sephiroth didn't have Cloud on his radar back when Cloud woke up in Midgar after Zack died, he wouldn't have done it either.

and how Sephiroth manages to appear to the player several times without ever leaving the crater

That's not at all how Sephiroth appears outside of the crater. The Sephiroth you encounter outside the crater is the Jenova that broke out of Shinra building taking on Sephiroth's form.

- he's imprinting himself on Jenova-infused people, the 'Sephiroth clones' (God, clone was such a poor choice of words in the original translation).  That's in the Ultimania.

Where in the Ultimania is that? Even if it was though, the problem is that the Ultimania guide was released September 9, 2005.
Whatever in that guide has no bearing on whether or not something was thought up when the game was first made and released, and has no bearing on this discussion since this is a discussion on what was intended with the original not about what has been made the case post hoc through compilation ret-cons, which it is likely to contain given it was released only days before Advent Children, likely as a part of the FFVII compilation initiative.

Because, as I have stated a few times, Zax would not know Shinra "well enough". Also, Zax would have had to tell Cloud the time he met Shinra and how they know each other well. Cloud is not a mind reader - he basis part of his life on the stories he was told by Zax.  It is a big stretch of the imagination to suppose Zax knew Shinra well enough to be on a first name basis with him. Shinra himself even heavily implies in the same dialogue  that he doesn't know any Soldier's name apart from Sephiroth's.  So you've got a brick wall by Shinra's own words.

Apparently, according to the canon as established by the compilation, Cloud is apparently not basing stuff on what Zack told him - rather the Jenova cells are apparently feeding him memories from Zack. Apparently Jenova can read minds, and there's some collective shared consciousness bullcrap going on between people with Jenova cells.

I'm not trying to take away from your overall point, or condone this contrived plot-addition, but this is apparently the case, and the explanation for why Cloud seemingly remembers stuff he wasn't there to witness, or had no reasonable way of knowing.
I say apparently a bunch, because as anyone with half a mind realizes, that is a dumb reason, SE's established canon or not.

What does it fetching matter? Even if Cid was everything the original poster thinks he is, that's still a moot fetching point. People like that exist in the real world. Why for god's sake, should they not exist in stories?
You're not supposed to like Cid for being the way he is, and regardless of author's intent here - whether you do or not, is on you.
Getting stuck on surface level reactionary BS like that when engaging with art and media is a one-way ticket to coo-coo land.

People in stories, like in the real world, have flaws. If you expect every character in a story to be exemplary moral paragons of the 1st order, then not only is the story for you probably not written yet, even if it were, it would be the most boring and pointless story ever.

General Discussion / Re: FF7 Remake general thread
« on: 2016-07-31 15:44:21 »
Delete this.

General Discussion / Re: FF7 Remake general thread
« on: 2016-07-31 15:43:35 »
Because it looks completely ridiculous when a scrawny guy, who could realistically bench 150 lbs, throws around a 5-600 lbs slab of metal like it's a bag of cotton balls.

I think in the anime scene, the formula for highlighting proficiency in a skill is to make it look as improbable as possible. The huge muscle guys are weaklings and the masters look emaciated.

Here's the thing though - The original FFVII's Cloud doesn't have the necessary muscle mass for what he's doing either. In fact, wielding the Buster Sword efficiently is already physically impossible since the forward momentum of wielding that blade with any meaningful speed would send Cloud flying off like rag-doll.

If you're being entirely selective with the physics of your world to begin with - what way in which you're being selective matters little if at all.

Also, notice that Cloud is not wielding the blade in the remake like he was in the original. His visibly struggling with each swing, whilst in the original he twirled it around like a god damn cheer-leader's baton.

At the end though - Cloud is a person enhanced by alien cells and Mako energy - why Cloud being relatively skinny and wielding the buster sword like it's a feather is worse than Cloud being slightly more skinny and wielding the sword like it's actually big and heavy makes no sense what so ever.

If people want to rag on the remake - there are plenty of good places to do so - like how they ditched the anime aesthetic of the original, for this uninspired quasi-realistic manure that they've been doing since VIII, the fact that they're taking the game-play in the direction of action which is wholly counter-productive for strategical game-play involving a party of several characters, or the fact that they couldn't even get Uematsu back to work on the soundtrack.
Let's not get bogged down on non-essentially changes that don't make a meaningful impact on quality one way or the other because the original already did it poorly.

General Discussion / Re: FF7 Remake general thread
« on: 2016-07-31 04:43:29 »
*sigh* why he so skinny?!

Because he's spent how many years in a giant test-tube?

I think there's a lot of issues with the lighting. Depending on the scene and the lighting in the trailer, his looks changes a lot.

General Discussion / Re: FF7 Remake general thread
« on: 2016-06-23 09:07:57 »
I don't like how they have Barret wearing shades.

The original Barret would never wear shades, he was a practical, realistic guy who was not interested in "street cred" He certainly wouldn't wear sunglasses in a place as dark as midgar.

As I said before, and said again, shades are not illogical in lowly lit/dark places when you're wielding a gun that has a pronounced muzzle flash - which Barret's Gatling gun would have.
When you enter a dark places, your eyes will adjust to the lack of light - if however, you're then subjected to a bright flash of light, your eyes do an immediate readjustment - this screws up your entire night-vision, and demands your eyes readjust all over again.
Not only, will bright flashes look even brighter when its dark - the dark will look even darker after the flash - which means that if Barret is supposed to be firing that gun non-stop, he wouldn't be able to see anything at all most of the time in combat - which would be dangerous as all hell.

There are plenty of things to pick on about the new art-direction - Barret's sunglasses is not one of them.

I think Chrono Trigger has the better battle system. That's about it in terms of what I think can be spoken of in terms of "better" and "worse".
Also, the load-times in Chrono Trigger are better =P but that's to be expected.

I prefer the story, the world, the art-style, the music (although certain tracks in Chrono Trigger stand out to me as being above the general tracks of Cross, Cross has more music I like on average), and the overall feel of Chrono Cross.

I don't really see the issue with this.
After all, action games for instance frequently have stories that are a fraction of that of most RPGs.
The reason they're still stand-alone games at relative short lengths though, is partly because games like Uncharted are much more technically demanding game-play-wise and that requires more development-time and resources.

Since this game is obviously going to be action based, and they're making things to scale (and Nomura babbling on about stressing the ability to interact with the environments) it's completely reasonable to expect even the rudimentary story of FFVII to stretch out into three volumes - because last time I checked, with voice-acting etc. that would still be longer than the story of all the Uncharted games put together.

Not saying they won't bloat the game etc. but from a development perspective this is pretty basic.

But the way I see it - if they're going to create the entire world, and fix its broken infrastructure (add roads, railroad tracks, expand cities/towns to actual resemble real cities/towns capable of sustaining an actual population) then that offers of lot of natural padding to the game.

If FFVX is anything to go by, we're looking at a game where it's going to take a lot of time to get from point A to B, and we're probably looking at the introduction of mini-quests like monster hunting and NPC fetch-quests to fill up that dead-space etc.

I'm not worried about stats etc though. Legend of Heroes have already proven without a shadow of a doubt (although even games as early as Suikoden 1 and 2 did this) that you can have game series with transferable stats.

As for release date -
Releasing the first game within 2017 should also be reasonable simple. The game has already been in development for over a year. By late 2017 we're closing in on 3 years.
To put this into perspective - FF8 was made in little over a year.
This game is being outsourced to more than 2 companies besides the work being done at SE, and it's obvious based on the game-play trailer that they are in part using resources from the FFVX development process (Clouds "free-running"/crawling through the ruins animation is obviously ported over from FFVX as it is identical to that of Noctis).

I always thought Aerith's death was intended to be somewhat like that of Obi Wan in Star Wars - that it was strongly implied she ultimately made the trip to the city of the ancient on her own knowing that Sephiroth would kill her, so she could work her magic from within the life-stream.
So having her not die, would be as stupid as not killing off Obi Wan in Star Wars - or rather more, since Obi Wan didn't actually do much of anything after dying, while Aerith certainly did.

But, to reiterate the most important point here - this article is on themarysue, and that fact alone disqualifies it from serious consideration. That site is a troll heaven for intellectual midgets who think feminist literally analysis derived from critical theory is not just a vapid exercise in tortured reasoning and projection, and that it somehow has anything of value to say about the medium of video games despite the obvious f'ing differences between literature and video games both historically and in a contemporary context.

I wish people like this would get an actually f'ing education, and maybe do some cursory reading on philosophy/philosophy of science, so they would stop polluting the space and the air with their trite and inflammatory garbage.

General Discussion / Re: FF7 Remake general thread
« on: 2015-12-27 14:55:02 »
The "true to the original" ship has long sailed. It's no good being disappointed by every new announcement that content is being changed or completely warped.  We all know now that that is how they're doing it.  And I've known that's how they'd do it for well over 5 years which is why I never wanted them to start.  Your best bet is to stop reading their interviews and forget the game is even being made - like me.  And then not buying it - like me.

I disagree with Hian that what they're saying isn't controversial.  Their entire game plan has been a slap in the face to the original fans and will continue to be.  But my point is - that's how it is. There's no changing it.

What I meant to say is - it's not controversial from a design or industry perspective - it's perfectly "reasonable". It's hilariously insulting and sad for long-time fans though.
But, that's what I was expecting to happen to begin with - this isn't Squaresoft - it's Square-Enix, a monolith of a company, and one of the last bastions of AAA console gaming in Japan.
They have "better things to do" than cater to their old fans =P

General Discussion / Re: FF7 Remake general thread
« on: 2015-12-27 03:40:03 »
My thoughts on this:
I guess this will mean the game will be cut short quite heavily in regard to trivial dialogs. There is NO way they will have every single line voiced that was in the original game. This makes me wonder, why the hell do they present themselves with such a challenge? This is something NOBODY has asked for. I'd rather have all the dialog from the original, with voice acting added for cutscenes. Nobody will argue, even today that the way they did it for FF-X was already perfect.

I don't think we should assume that what he means by "fully voiced" is that every single NPC in the game will be voiced - rather that everything of importance will be voiced.
Even if that weren't the case, I'm pretty dialogue heavy games like the Witcher already do this, so it's far from impossible.

We shouldn't forget it was because of constraints like this, that FF XIII has become the sh1tty linear game it was.

This is on a new platform though, with less restriction, using a much more developer friendly engine, being partly outsourced to multiple outside companies, being released in parts presumably to avoid this being an issue.

Whether it's necessary? NECESSARY??!

Are they short on budget already making statements like this, or what? We want nothing less than all the mini games. ALL of them.

You really gonna miss Sumo Arm Wrestling that much?
Especially if the trade off is, for example, a better, and more fleshed out Chocobo breeding/racing mini-game with online multi-player?

Are they seriously prioritising development of some MMO-spinoff and a Kingdom Hearts game over FF VII?? I don't know about you people, but I never cared about KH not in the slightest. I just can't take it seriously and it doesn't grip me at all, which probably has to do with the fact that it's based on the completely RIDICULOUS premise of mixing Disney characters with Final Fantasy. And I couldn't care less about yet another Final Fantasy MMO either. Now that FF XV is near completion, all their focus should logically be on the newest game in their main franchise, which is the FF VII Remake.

That's not what Nomura was talking about in the Dengeki interview though. He referred to being swamped in other work preventing him from giving out more news in the near future, not about the pace of the development.

SE is a developing and publishing company - their focus should, logically, be on whatever projects they've already pooled time and resources into, that have promising near-future economical pay-offs, in the order that they were initiated.
FFXV isn't finished yet, and has yet to generate any revenue. They have multiple other projects closer to completion that have yet to generate any revenue either.

You're saying it would make sense for them to pool loads of money, time and resources into a project  that is nowhere near finished at the expense of other projects despite having dumped loads of money, time and resources into them already?
Where exactly are the funds for salaries and continued development of FFVIIR going to come from then?

It should have been obvious to them from the beginning, that FF VII Remake will be literally their biggest project ever and should get all the development resources it needs, which basically are all of them.

It is getting all the development resources it needs - that's why its being developed by multiple outside companies on a 3rd party engine, while also stealing resources from in-house teams like the KH3 team.
This is literally 100 times better than it being developed on their in-house engine for instance, which would limit their development potential to a much smaller pool of developers who're all currently tied up in FFXV.

Timing was a thing in even getting this project of its feet. They've been candid about this several times - they'd only do this once the original members could get back together.
This was their time-window - however, they can't just have SE, a giant company responsible for several major IPs, drop everything to the floor for this one game.
Because regardless how bloated the confidence of the original fan-base is - this game is not an instant cash-grab when developed on a new system, with this generation's graphics and level of content. Certainly not to the extent that they can sacrifice all their other IPs and still make up the difference with FFVII alone.

Now, I'm under no illusion that this game is going to be the next best thing after sliced bread, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if what it ends up we're looking at is essentially "Final Uncharted of the Old Republic 7" rather than a what a good remake or good re-imagining would be -
but non of what Nomura and Kitase have said so far is really all that controversial knowing at least in part, based on the trailer, what this game seems to be aiming for.
It's a reboot plain and simple. It isn't going to retrace the footsteps of the original.
That however, does not mean that we can safely assume that what it ends up being won't be a good game.

It can be a strawberriesty remake, and still be an excellent game in its own right. Is that unfair towards fans of the original? Yes. But, if that's what we're getting, let's at least rate it for what it is - not for failing at being something it never tried nor pretended to be.

General Discussion / Re: FF7 Remake Gameplay Reveal
« on: 2015-12-13 07:34:31 »
The purple is actually in the game natively, it just doesn't show until you raise the saturation levels with about 50%.

The reason I'd want a filter for this game, is because even adjusting saturation on most TV's is not going to give you this result since it requires the combination of both a bloom effect and a cell-shade effect to make the colors pop like that.

On a technical Level in DX 11 A world can be larger than around over 150-200 km2 its just not even possible on a technological standpoint given the fact that DX11 can only handle up to 8 light sources at a time better yet the massive data involved in doing so.

This assumes it's going to be one open world, not a segmented one like FF15, where areas will be loaded in as you travel.
Keep on racking up on those assumptions though.

Maybe if FF7 was DX12 I would believe it might be possible but it isn't. Add the fact that you were saying they were making a scale of a 1/1 planet that assumed a you know PLANET.. A planet is a very specific size, and assuming the world of ff7 follows the same laws of physics as the real world which it seems to at least follow some gravity exists for example, the planet you speak of would be soo small it would have a gravitational force that wouldnt even be able to sustain basic life.

Not of "a planet" of "the planet of FFVII" - there is a pretty large distinction which should be apparent to anyone with basic reading comprehension.

Also, good job conveniently ignoring the point that this would be equally true for Xenoblade Chronicles X, yet no a single F was given about this when they designed their planet. Good job.

If you make things not to scale you dont have to worry about this you see... Which is why in a practical sense unless the world was the size of the moon and everyone there was jam packed like a street in india it would make no sense from a practical standpoint.. This isnt to "scale" Its not even physically possible.. But I guess Logic to understand that isn't quite obvious

No you see, because if you could grasp basic reading, you'd know I wasn't talking about planets in the sense you're talking about them here - I am talking about a planet in a game - and a planet in a game, like physics in a game, or like pretty much everything in a game, does not have to be consistent with reality. "But I guess Logic to understand that isn't quite obvious" (don't you mean "But I guess the logic it takes to understand that isn't quite obvious.")

Los Santos btw as I stated before around half of Los Santos is Rural area, Hmm not unlike Velen which btw actually consists of other cities. If you took only the city of Los santos and splintered all other territory including the rural area, and compared it to novigrad which is 1/4 of the size of the entire map scale, than they would pretty much be even.. considering the rural area of Los santos consists of roughly a third of the maps area substract that from 45km2 which would only be 30km2 Novigrad being 1/4 the size of the 136km2 territory Novigrad would actually be SLIGHTLY LARGER lol

You're saying the free city of Novigrad alone (this : is about the same size of Los Santos city areal. I think your math is way off.

Midgar itself is 2.97 km^2 this is the world of FF7 rendered by a satellite like view

there are roughly 32 main areas that consist of the world of FF7

Midgar takes up around 1/32 the size of that regions area. Multiply 3km^2 times 32 assuming every other territory was in scale to Midgar the Map size would still be only 96km^2

Not to say that isnt impressive, but its not even close to the 1/1 scale of a planet..

Not of a planet, no - but it would be the 1:1 scale of the planet of FFVII, because that's what it is in the game - a planet - and that's it's scale.

But by all means, keep on getting stuck in semantics and fight a windmill.

So we can agree that if they were to remake FFVII we're looking at approximately 96km^2 of land before we even start to consider added content, or expansions of areas.
Then we consider content, within the world, graphical fidelity, game-play systems etc.

Tell me again how it's inconceivable that this game will need several disks?

You know what your right I'm working off of plain assumption especially when it is clear that given the release date, they are in a development cycle for the first installment of this game for at most 3 years..

You don't know the release date, and neither does anyone else.

I'm further working off of assumption when I actually MEASURE the size of content by real world standards an argument you tried to use against me with regard to the 1/1000 scale of midgar..

No, I was making the argument that if we're going to talk about the size of the remake we should be going by a 1:1 of the original game's world - not real world standards, but whatever.

Im also working off of even more assumption when I look at Squares track record and what they are capable of coupled with what they are offering on the table...

Care to elaborate?

A game that has been in fraction of the development cycle of many of there other projects but because it has FF7 on its package they are already announcing a episodic release.. Why dont they do this for KH3 then or FF15 PART 1 PART 2 PART 3? Why because they know it doesnt have the same name as FF7 by far their most popular project.. Again all assumption though..

Maybe they will?
Also, it's quite obvious that KH aims to deliver a completely different game-play experience from FFVIIR, so why you'd even compare the two is beyond me.

Also Im not making an affirmative argument that one game is going to be larger than the other,

Then how is that you're arguing it makes no sense to put this game on multiple disks?

Im just well lets not say assumming because you would never do that, suggesting is more like it that A modern city scale is quote retarded to compare to a Medieval city..

It is the vast majority of the time, unless you're comparing old empirical capitals to rural modern villages, when you consider history and human development. But hey... Do go on.

Oh and further that you wanted me to do the math for the size of the world of FF7 outside of Midgar because apparently I was unfairly singling out "one city" that you said could easily be 10 times bigger than any city in witcher 3

Which it still could. We don't know one way or the other. I am not making the assumption that it is - I am asking you to consider that you might be wrong in your assumption that it won't.

I also wasn't asking you to consider Midgar's size for it's own sake - I was asking you to do it to grasp the scale of FFVII's world, which you now have, and admit is size-able. And that's the bare minimum if (and only if) they plan on remaking this to a 1:1 scale of the original world.

Oh and also about the planet argument I precisely said the difference between scale and non scale.. The majority if not all devs dont claim to make anything to 1/1 scale in land mass because it is physically impossible to unless Xenosagas devs said clearly we are going to make a 1/1 scale planet which you stated earlier, than non scale allows them freedom.

Again, I was talking about the size of FFVII's world not a planet in the sense of astrophysics and the real world.

The Xenoblade devs made a planet. The FFVII devs made a planet. Both of these are fictional planets.
The difference is that FFVII's planet wasn't made in scale to its characters - as is made patently F'ing obvious by the FFVII world-map.
Xenoblade on the other hand was. Things are scaled to the size of the characters.

My point about scaling of world is only relevant to FFVII because FFVII relied on a miniature abstraction to represent the world around the characters. When I say remaking FFVII in a 1:1 scale I am referring to making the world the size it should be based on the measurement of characters and objects within that world, and silly me, I thought that would be F'ing apparent to anyone who's played the game.

Apparently not to you though.

I was simply pointing out the assertion that scale implies physical property, when you do something to scale, you compare it to real world properties thats what scale is, If it isnt physically possible well then it isnt to scale lol.

You have a quaint idea of scale. Scale is a concept that deals with the abstract concept of measurement.
Remaking the world of FFVII to a 1:1 scale does not mean making it to a realistic scale - it means making all the objects in the world proportionate to standard length in the real world I.E if Cloud represents a human who is 1.75m tall, but the world around him has cities being roughly the size of his body, these cities are not in scale. They are miniatures.
Scaling FFVII to a 1:1 in that context, refers specifically to scaling the in-game world elements to proportion with one another, as they weren't in the OG.

This is readily apparent to anyone who's not a complete idiot.

General Discussion / Re: FF7 Remake Gameplay Reveal
« on: 2015-12-13 06:13:52 »
Nemo problemo -

Here's a comparison for you -
Not all that much I could do to save this model though. Thankfully, it seems to be one of those "cut-scene" HD models that SE use to cheat to make their games look better during close ups in scripted events, rather than the model you have to look at throughout most of the game.
Nomura also hinted at in the interview that Cloud only looks like this in the beginning due to just having awakened from his test-tube.

Earth Is one of the Smallest planets in our Solar System.. and 25k miles around is what would be the scale of a planet.. If you where to make it any smaller assuming the world of FF7 follows the laws of physics as you people want to play by, the gravitational pull of the planet would be soo light life would be unsustainable. Assuming Midgar has the same gravititational properties as earth which it seems it does, it would have to be roughly the size of earth to warrent its believe-ability. But even it it wasn't and the developers decided to ignore all laws of physics, this would only strengthen my arguement as the scale of their endeavor practically would have to be counting also on a technical standpoint a TINY TINY planet in real world sense.

This is the most contrived argument I've ever heard. When did FF games ever even slightly care about consistent physics in their games?
I guess by that logic Xenoblade Chronicles X shouldn't exist (big open world planet, that is still way too small to sustain life in the real world).
People in game development don't make planets based on real world physics - they make them based on what works for the game and for the lore.

My argument is simply that it isn't entirely unreasonable to expect a 1:1 scale version of FFVII's world as it is presented in the original, small as it is - and that small as it is, it might very well be bigger than what we've seen in other open world RPGs up until now.

In either case, it all boils down to content times size. You simply cannot make the assumption that this game is going to be smaller than say Witcher 3, or that it would all fit on a single disk, when you literally have no idea how much they plan to make, or what the scale of the world is.
You literally know nothing of the scope of this game as it stands right now.

I am not making the affirmative argument that this game is going to be bigger than Witcher 3, I am making the argument that you have no way of knowing that it will be smaller, and as such, your entire tirade here is unwarranted and ridiculous.

You're working entirely off of assumptions towards a positive claim you have no way of demonstrating to be true, and using that to fuel your own anger and distress. It's utterly beyond me how you can possible think that's constructive in any way shape or manner.

As a caveat though - whether this game would fit into a single installment or not also depends on much more than world-size.
Could you fit Uncharted 1-3 on a single disk? All of FF13 or the three next installments of Tekken for that matter?
Games take space in many different ways depending on content and context.
We know nothing about FFVIIR as of this moment.

A 1/1 scale of a planet would roughly be 25k miles around... Your telling me Square is going to make a 1/1 scale of a planet?

Now, I'm saying they might be considering making something to a 1:1 scale of FFVII's world - which is, by any standards, a pretty small world.
It could still very much be bigger than the countries you find yourself in the Witcher 3.

Keep rowing though.

I was comparing btw Novigrad and Velen to Los Santos which Novigrad and Velen are one territory with a major hub city, pretty much the same format as Los Santos.

Except that for your analogy to be correct you should be comparing Novigrad, the actual city areal, to Los Santos's city areal, which you're not doing, so still no cookie.

And btw the calculations assuming Velen and Novigrad are 1/3 of the maps territory than Los Santos city scale would pretty much match evenly with Velen and Novigrad in terms of Km2. As I said the scale of a game in terms of physical size is determined by its actual size relative to real measurements such as kilometers. Nothing in the gaming industry has gotten close to Witchers scale.. And with 3 years of development time I doubt Square would even come close as well.

Except we have no idea how long it's going to take until all the parts of FFVIIR are out, and there's the fact that this game is being outsourced to multiple companies. It's not just Square or CC2 doing the work. The interviews clearly stated that they're using MULTIPLE companies for this game in ADDITION to CC2 and Square.

And better yet how about we do some basic math here assuming my approximations are correct. The formula for area is Length X Width. Lets say your Midgar model was 6 feet long by 5 feet wide that seems fair right? judging by its scale with the people in the background and average height being approx 5.9 I would say that's a fair assumption.  Assuming this was the case and you multiplied this by a grand that would only equal 2.79 KM^2 in a rectangular area. Far from even a fraction of the area of Witchers Map..

Which would be that one city. I see you conventiently forgot to do what I actual asked you to do - calculate the size of FFVII's world using Midgar for scale. And on top of that, leave some room for the expanses they have in the works. Come back to me once you've done that.


You are not in a position to ask for something you do not possess an inch of.

I love how incredibly ignorant your assertions are... YOUR VERY OWN SOURCE TO CITE THE SIZE OF WITCHERS MAP SPECIFICALLY STATES WITCHERS MAP BEING 4 TIMES BIGGER THAN GTA 5s ENTIRE CITY!!! Your honestly gonna tell me Midgar is as big if not bigger than Los Santos? Specifically your source sites GTA 5 as being 45 km^2 where as Witcher 3 is 136 km^2..

I love how your reading comprehension and flailing about trying to confirm your own biases is at the level of a religious child.

Yes, the entirety of Witcher 3's map is bigger than Los Santos - now tell me if FF7's world is confined to just Midgar?
Ooops, that's right, it isn't. No points for you.

you know what else was a planet Spira except the freedom of the amount of exploration compared to the any of these game was minuscule..

Good thing FFVII's world isn't anything like Spira's then, and that we have no reason to assume that FFVIIR's world will be anything like that either.

Just because something spans across a planet doesnt mean the size to scale is even remotely as large..

It does if they're remaking it in 1:1 scale which was the qualifier to my argument. But then, grasping that would require to to calm the F down and stop acting like a five year old on a temper tantrum.
We don't know that they will, and you're right, it might end up a tiny linear world - but it's an assumption either way. Thing is, I'm not going to get my knickers in a bunch on an assumption like you are right now.


Omg, it reminds you of it. Good for you. That's not an argument.

They might as well be the same amount of territory.. Witcher 3 might as well just be a planet scaled several times larger..

It might, and it might not.

This is a 1/1000 scale recreation of Midgar :

You do the math, and consider how big the world of FFVII is.

Apparently this doesnt scale with something like Cosmo canyon lol... You gotta love Fanboys

Except I said no such thing. I said that the most of the FFVII world is likely see expansion as well as the fact that the world is quite large as it is.
That's why the assumption that FFVIIR will end up smaller or at the same size as Witcher 3 is not just an empty assumption - it's a poor assumption.

Now take a hike.

Also Really you arent being indicative of physical size your whole arguement was based upon the premise that a Medieval Cities scale could never be the scale of a modern city WHEN YOUR OWN ARTICLE TOLD YOU OTHERWISE LOS SANTOS WHICH IS A MODERN CITY IS A FRACTION OF WITCHER 3s TERRITORY

You're comparing a modern city to all of Witcher 3's territory. I was comparing cities to cities, which is a point you started making - not me.

Again, take a hike. You're arguments are shait, your internet rage is pathetic, and your double/triple posting is a blight on the forum.

General Discussion / Re: FF7 Remake Gameplay Reveal
« on: 2015-12-13 04:40:53 »
I did some tweaking on a bunch of screens from the trailer using approximately the same set-up in my image processing software that I use for filter on my video-game project, a soft cell-shade filter, some bloom and increased saturation, and the above is how it came out (threw the hud together just for fun) - here are the rest of them, just for comparisons sake.


Have you even played Witcher 3, Really???

Have you played the game?

Take your crockshait and peddle it somewhere else.

Also, FFVII takes place across an entire planet - The Witcher does not. End of argument.
Make me a 1:1 scale recreation of a planet and tell me it's going to be smaller or the size of the Witcher with a serious face. I dare you.

That is one of the 4 continents in the entire game.. (and that doesn't even show the whole continent)
there are literally hundreds of locations to explore with their own handcrafted storyboards, and that continent alone has more than 4 main hub cities with Novigrad EASILY being the size if not greater than Midgar..

If you think a Medieval hub city that is easily smaller than most of the cities recreate from actual Medieval times in the Assassin'c Creed series comes even close to Midgar, the fantasy equivalent of modern day Tokyo, you are deluded.*&output-quality=75
that there is just 1/10 of the size of Novigrad ALONE!!

How about Skellige?

The Isles are composed of at least 5 islands with at least 3 main cities including the Kingdom in the center, with each island easily taking 10 minutes at least to sail by ship..
When you add the other territories to the mix ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE ARE YOU KIDDING?!!! THE demo they showed us might as well be a BITE SIZE FRACTION OF WITCHER 3s WORLD.. Unless you can plainly see this YOU have to literally be blind..

The demo they showed us, showed us a couple of streets of Midgar, which could easily indicate Migard being 10 times the size of any city in the Witcher 3, which would be hard granted that even the biggest city in that game can be run through in matter of minutes.

I wasn't arguing that the Witcher 3 doesn't have large maps - I was making the argument that comparing Medieval towns with Midgar is retarded, as is comparing a couple of kingdoms with an entire planet.

The Witcher 3 is undoubtedly impressive, but if you think it will be larger than a faithful recreation of FFVII's world in a 1:1 scale your intellect and imagination is as limited as that of a lobotomized chimpanzee. Now take your caps lock rage somewhere else.

My grief with the multi episods is actually that there is no room for a worldmap, which also means they have to summerize content (Cosmo Canyon could be made easiely to a part of a sector in Midgar).

This isn't true though.
If each game part are added to each-other like an expansion system that we use to see for PC games, it's completely possible for the remake to have a world map that will be extended on with each new install, much like what is done with expansions for FF14, or other MMOPRGs.

Also, as I've said before, the OG's world building is, sorry to say, really bad. Towns like Kalm and Cosmo Canyon make no sense, and couldn't possible be self-sufficient and liveable as is - so they'll all probably be expanded and changed for the remake if they plan to make things more "real”.
I mean, the OG didn't even have a system of roads, railroads etc. No farms outside of the towns to provide them food, not enough houses for even the NPCs in the towns, and no indication that there would be enough customers to keep the stores from going bankrupt.
In total, the world was ridiculously underdeveloped, and if they were to address that we're looking at a world then it isn't easy to see how big the various places are going to end up being.

The Famitsu interviews have Nomura and Kitase both explicitly stating they don't want to make a "digest" version of the game - they're purposefully setting out to make a larger version than the original.

General Discussion / Re: FF7 Remake Gameplay Reveal
« on: 2015-12-13 01:40:55 »
Since it's on Unreal 4, I hope it's mod friendly, so I can make it look more like this, and less like FFXV with its drab and colorless vibe.

Other game companies do not do it and would not do it.

To be fair, this approach is done in Japan, notably by The Legend of Heroes developers at Nihon Falcom.
These games are split because of size, and so, if truly they plan on expanding the game (1:1 scale open-cities/towns and over-world exploration)  in quality of the game-play trailer, then I actually don't see any way they could release this as a single without forcing us to wait at the very least 3+ years and forcing us to pay extra for a 2 or 3 blue-ray disk release, which would essentially make little difference from releasing those disks as they finished them instead of forcing us to wait until everyone is done in either case.

@rest of thread :
As for those drawing parallels to other games -
Almost no other game, Witcher and Xenoblade included, take place on an entire planet with 10+ city locations, 40+ hours of story spanning those locations.
The Witcher's world is quite small for comparatively to what the world of FFVII is supposed to be (an entire planet), and while Xenoblade offers an entire planet, it's a planet devoid of meaningful content, cities etc. where most of the story is told in the 1 hub-city of the game. Non of those titles are comparable in scope and diversity to what a, content-wise, faithful remake of FFVII would have to be.
FFVII issue is that it is a narrative driven game, and an exploration focused game at the same time. Most games pick one or the other. The Witcher 3 is truly an odd one out there, that tries the same, but it limits itself to a single country or continent.
Xenosaga builds an entire world (in dated graphics at that), and sacrifices tight story-telling in favor of boring MMO type game-play where most of the time is spent running through wilderness killing 10 of X and collecting 20 of Y.
FFVII did the best of both - it gave you the vast world of Xenogears and then put Witcher 3-like narrative driven quests at the center of each new area you explored.
This is the biggest factor in making the PS1 era FF games difficult to remake in high-end graphics. Their format works very poorly with the new design trends, costs, and inflation of the industry.

If you're going to have the best graphics you can have for a system, a huge world filled with diverse locations with unique content, and cut-scene driven, motion-captured, heavily directed cut-scenes drive story at every single location whether it's important for plot-progression, or whether it's just Hojo chillin' at the beach, you're easily looking at a game that will take the same amount of space as the 3 first Uncharted games put together, or the 3 first Assassin's Creed games or the 3 Witcher games.

Could you cram all of these unto one disk? Would you release that project in one package at 3 the price of a regular game down the pipe-line many years after having announced it, or split it up into 3?

More to the point - SE has had FF15 in production for a decade now. That game has yet to produce any revenue what so ever.
If you think SE financial backers will float Kitase and Co the money to just develop a game for 3-5+ years without producing anything to sell in that period, whilst FF15 is still in the works and we don't know how well it will sell, then you have no idea how the industry works.

I really don't want to defend SE on this, but the splitting of this game is not a problem. It's the only logical thing to do to make this remake happen at all (at that level of detail), and it's the only thing that answers the concerns of cut content - which was a concern primarily fueled by time, money, and the format, all of which can be addressed by making it a series instead.

If they truly do plan to make a 1:1 scale remake of that world, and everything in it, that game would literally be bigger than any other AAA RPG to date.
The only games it would perhaps make sense to compare it to would be FF15 or FF14 - the former not being out, and the other being an MMORPG that is being updated and added to constantly.

Again, for people who think serialized JRPGs don't work - look to The Legend of Heroes on PS Vita.
It's been done time and time again, and it's worked time and time again.
If Nihon Falcom can do this, SE should be able to as well.

There's a lot of things to dislike about style of the remake if you're a purist - however, the split format, until we know how and how many, is probably the least worrisome on that list.

(Before someone call me a blind fan-boy of SE - I don't even like the new direction of the game. Personally I'd like it to be a cell-shaded traditional JRPG keeping true to the original style and game-play of the game, and I'd be perfectly happy to accept lower graphics for that to be realized (even PS2 level graphics).
Personally, the anime style of the original game, the world map, the transitional encounters etc. are more important aspects of this game to me, than the overarching story - so remaking the overarching story and ditching everyone else, alienates me from the game. I'm not particularly happy with the style they chose for the remake - but they chose it. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't have FFVII look and play like Advent Children, retain its original content, and still make it unto a single release. You just can't.

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