FF7 Remake general thread

[Neophyte]

Damn, had to create a new account as I forgot my old one >_<

Anyway, if there was a like button on here, I'd probably like every one of Dan's posts and moreso on this subject.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong but is there some kind of backlash going on over in "generic flashy fps shooter land" right at this moment? Yeah, even the modern gamer dudes are starting to rebel against the mighty dev houses over the CoD franchise. Even they want something more akin to "old school" (for them at least).

This FF7 remake is absolutely not what we wanted. I'm guessing a fair percentage of you, like me, simply wanted a graphical spruce up with some sweet, modern graphics and sound alongside a fixed translation. That really is all I want. At what point did any hardcore FF7 fan actually request a complete reboot of the game?

Let's be honest, reboots are quite pants. We only have to look at the recent run of movies which are complete bab. Robocop, Total Recall, Terminator Genysisysis... There was no need to remake or reboot FF7, all we ever wanted was a technological update.

[gjoerulv]

...
They have "better things to do" than cater to their old fans =P

They aren't catering to them directly; they don't have to. They know a good bunch of 'em will buy it anyway, no matter how skeptical.

@Neophyte
Most people I've talked to also want something similar. Things like: Polished graphics, fix bugs, better translation, more gameplay options (such as difficulty), online play and added content (like materia, sidequests tec.). Absolutely no one I've talked to personally wants an uptodate-action-RPG-DBZMatrix-FF7.

However, many of these "fixes" are already released by mods. In that sense SE's approach is somewhat understandable.

[DLPB_]

I doubt Enix or the people doing the remake are even aware of some of the mods here.  I mean someone will be aware that there are mods, but I doubt any of them sat down and used them. As for translation - they've gone for a totally different script, as I always feared they would.

[gjoerulv]

True or not, I should have phrased that better. It's safe to assume the modding community has next to no (probably no) effect on FF7R. What I was getting at was that we will always have the original to "fix" ourselves. I'm not trying to justify SE's approach on behalf of the mod community.

[Lein]

It looks to be a mixture between FFXII and crisis core. You'll probably have an action battle system similar to crisis core and your team will be AI controlled then you'll be able to switch to them at any time. Also I got a Mass Effect vibe when I saw Cloud walking through narrow spaces. I guess it'll be a mixture of:

Crisis Core
Final Fantasy XII
Mass Effect

I hope they keep the world map and try to relax the camera a bit. Less Michael Bay more Akira Kurosawa. I'm not a huge fan of the look of the characters, Barret's sun glasses look unnecessary and Cloud's muscly arm look odd. I know a thing or two about anatomy and the muscles are too defined.

[jbi]

I don't like how they have Barret wearing shades.

The original Barret would never wear shades, he was a practical, realistic guy who was not interested in "street cred" He certainly wouldn't wear sunglasses in a place as dark as midgar.

[hian]

I don't like how they have Barret wearing shades.

The original Barret would never wear shades, he was a practical, realistic guy who was not interested in "street cred" He certainly wouldn't wear sunglasses in a place as dark as midgar.

As I said before, and said again, shades are not illogical in lowly lit/dark places when you're wielding a gun that has a pronounced muzzle flash - which Barret's Gatling gun would have.
When you enter a dark places, your eyes will adjust to the lack of light - if however, you're then subjected to a bright flash of light, your eyes do an immediate readjustment - this screws up your entire night-vision, and demands your eyes readjust all over again.
Not only, will bright flashes look even brighter when its dark - the dark will look even darker after the flash - which means that if Barret is supposed to be firing that gun non-stop, he wouldn't be able to see anything at all most of the time in combat - which would be dangerous as all hell.

There are plenty of things to pick on about the new art-direction - Barret's sunglasses is not one of them.

[DLPB_]

I think it looks ridiculous, though.  That would be my gripe.  It's clearly being done to make him look "cool" = like Morpheus or something.  I agree that it isn't something Barrett would wear - but regardless it simply draws far too much attention for the wrong reasons. It's an addition that isn't needed and a symptom that the writing dept / design dept aren't thinking.

[White Wind]

The explanation about his gun's fire flashing in dark places makes sense in the real world, but that's no video game consideration, it's just too far-fetched.
Then what, we'd have that degree of realism, along with a damaged little plane roaming the seas and Chocobos with belly buttons?

And what if Barrett faces Rude? haha.. But you could argue that if they're all jumping all over the place, their sunglasses won't have much room to draw much attention (like a lot more things).

And his one-on-one with Dyne.. Okay I'm in a junkyard in the middle of the desert, trying desperately to settle what results from a major issue from my past.. but that doesn't mean I don't have to stay classy and cool heh
naa  kinda kills it for me, although he might already have dropped the glasses already up to that point.

IMO it's just not his character. That's more fucking Rude. When I think Barrett, I think tough life, scars, passionate, generous, flaring up, low-brow, concrete;  but no way cool, classy, stable, self-retained, "don't worry bro", "I hide behind something"
He'd find those ridiculous on his face, as I do, and would never give 10 Gils for such a thing  x)

For me  that's a sign they got the character wrong (or changed him deliberately), and that's no detail and assuredly something one can pick on about.

[KnifeTheSky77]

People tend to wear sunglasses when they commit crimes -- they help conceal their identities. It isn't too crazy to think that the head of a terrorist organization would wear sunglasses in the act, but I doubt he is going to wear them 24/7 like the reading rainbow guy that was in star trek

[DLPB_]

It's a totally stereotypical portrayal.  Real criminals do not work like that. But if we are going down that road - don't you think a man with a gun arm would be a little suspicious?

This change is nothing to do with story (I can come up with things pulled out of my brown end but they would be things pulled out of my brown end). It's to do with the idea that sunglasses = cool.  It's just a small symptom of a much bigger problem.  Changing something for the sake of trying to be cool without thinking whether it looks silly or will bring to mind people like Morpheus. It's a grab for flashy visuals over substance.

[KnifeTheSky77]

That is true, sunglasses in this context show a distrust in Barrett of his surroundings. They show that he is concealing his identity/personality/emotions from his crew and his adversaries. I think this is adding some depth to his character, as it implies that he'll open up to the player later on.

Just playing devil's advocate here

[gjoerulv]

I dunno... Barret wasn't exactly the shy, deep type of character to hide his "true" self....
No, those sunglasses are all about looks. Market research baby!. It's blatantly obvious. If everything is added to his characters, it's on behalf of the sunglasses. They didn't change his character and then decide to add the glasses to make it fit lmao.

[KnifeTheSky77]

I wasn't thinking shy, but more like a vigilante with a lot of walls up, the less everyone knows the better kind of thing. But who knows, maybe they just wanted him to look like morpheus who also chain smokes because that's just the epitome of cool according to market research. If that legitimately were the case, I'd be pretty salty about it. I'm skeptical that they intentionally added sunglasses for that reason though.

Cloud wore sunglasses/goggles while riding fenrir in advent children, for five seconds. I don't think they defined his character or were the sole reason that movie sucked

[gjoerulv]

Cloud's sunglasses were also based on cool-factor. Case in point: They made a (semi) big deal of it in the trailer. That alone did not ruin the movie, off course. Barret's glasses will not be the central factor when judging FF7R. It just may be one of those small pieces that drags the experience down.

Hey, they may have a super good reason for those sunglasses, but, as I see it, the most reasonable assumption here is cool-factor.

EDIT: Unrelated, but why is "o_f course" always "corrected" to "off course"?

[DLPB_]

FF7 joke...  the misspelling of "of course" at the Battle Arena.

[JohnLynch]

I started playing FF back in 1997/1998 when VII was first released in Australia. I've since played every non-MMO FF (main series only) and enjoyed FF V, VI, VII, IX, XII. So I'm not some "new fan who didn't grow up with FF" and yet I'm actually optimistic.

If I want the original FFVII, I've got it (both the PSX version and now the Steam version). Thanks to this community I've been able to update the characters, and while I was skeptical of the retranslation, I grew to love it after only an hour. This community has really given the original a new lease of life.

It is true, however, that my love of the new FFVII would be guaranteed if it was a faithful update to the original with only new graphics whereas it is quite likely I will dislike the new remake. However I'm willing to give it a chance (once it gets rereleased on PC or an emulator comes along that can reliably play it). It's quite possible I'll only buy a he first episode, and I'm okay with that as I still have the original.

Regarding the idea that an episodic approach will by necessity destroy the nonlinear nature of the game, I disagree. Here's one potential split that doesn't require linearity. You might say "that requires a lot of duplication", however it's reusing assets from the earlier episode so it's minimal additional work.

Episode 1:
* Midgard - This will get fleshed out much further. Where Jesse says things like "We've heard X" in the original, I expect for the remake it will be Cloud who goes and gets word of X. We also might help go through the wreckage of Sector 7 for survivors. And I expect a lot more flashbacks when people ask Cloud about his past.
* Outside Midgard
* Kalm
* Flashback Nibelheim
* Flashback Mt Nibel
* Chocobo Ranch
* Mythral Mines
* Fort Condor
* Junon
* Cargo Ship

Episode 2:
* Costa del Sol
* Mt Corel
* North Corel
* Gold Saucer
* Corel Prison
* Junon
* Fort Condor
* Cosmo Canyon
* Cave of the Gi
* Nibelheim
* Mt Nibel

Episode 3:
* Rocket Town
* Wutai
* Bone Village
* Gold Saucer
* Fort Condor
* Junon
* Costa del Sol
* Mt Corel
* North Corel
* Gold Saucer
* Cosmo Canyon
* Temple of the Ancients
* Bone Village
* Corral Valley
* The Forgotten Capital

Episode 4:
* Corral Valłey
* Icicle Inn
* Great Glacier
* Gaea's Cliff
* Whirlwind Maze
* <Everywhere in the world except Temple of the Ancients and Cave of the Gi>
* Final Crater

For me, I'm curious what a "full game per episode" actually means. FFXIII: Lightning Returns apparently clocks in at 20 hours for the main story (5 hours less than XIII-2 and half of XIII). Given this I expect we'll get episodes of 15 hours with reliance on side quests to pad out the playtime. My 4 episode split would give us 60 hours of main story (adding an extra 20 hours). Although I'd hardly see 15 hours of story as a "full game". I personally think anything short of 20 hours is a lie to the "full game" promise (which would be doable if we instead got 3 episodes at 20 hours of main story). The first episode could potentially end at either Corel Prison or the Cave of the Gi if it was 20 hours.

My line in the sand is the removal of the world map. If we don't have an open world that can be explored by airship I'll have no interest.

[itoikenza]

*sigh* why he so skinny?!

[hian]

*sigh* why he so skinny?!

Because he's spent how many years in a giant test-tube?

I think there's a lot of issues with the lighting. Depending on the scene and the lighting in the trailer, his looks changes a lot.

[KnifeTheSky77]

*sigh* why he so skinny?!

Because it looks completely ridiculous when a scrawny guy, who could realistically bench 150 lbs, throws around a 5-600 lbs slab of metal like it's a bag of cotton balls.

I think in the anime scene, the formula for highlighting proficiency in a skill is to make it look as improbable as possible. The huge muscle guys are weaklings and the masters look emaciated.

[Tsuna]

The way i get round my minor issues with the game is to understand the game is named Final FANTASY. That means it's not meant to resemble realness so cloud can swing this human sized sword. Like if you wanted to pick at things then how come barret has a gun arm? It's not possible? Plus he never runs outta ammo in there. You have to take with a pinch/mound of salt. Plus on the bright side we can fix the crap they do that we don't like so it's not that much of a big deal. I know people here have earned the right to be fussy after all these years of modding but if it's such a big problem, let's make our game up to our standards. Without any copyright of course

[DLPB_]

That isn't a sufficient argument - in fact, it's the worst argument of all. It excuses bad writing and means you could not criticize any fiction remotely for any of its flaws. Bad writing and other poor choices should be highlighted.  I care about good writing.  I don't watch shows where anything can happen for any reason, because I find no enjoyment in brainless writing, or situations that are too phony to believe.  I, and millions of others, cannot immerse themselves in a story that makes no sense.  Anybody could write such a story.

I got into FF7 originally for many reasons, and one of them was the mostly clever writing within the confines of its own internal logic.  It isn't perfect, but adding in tons of other crap is not going to make the "remake" superior to the original - it's going to make it wholly inferior. Why are people settling for something that is more bloated, more ridiculous, among other absurdities like chapter-based approach? Why should we accept something that has gone backwards in so many ways since 1997? It's ridiculous. They deserve no excuses or absolution. All they deserve is to be smacked hard in their pocket, but they won't be. That's why Star Wars Episode 8 is coming out to laugh at people, and why the Terminator series hasn't been put out to pasture.

[hian]

Because it looks completely ridiculous when a scrawny guy, who could realistically bench 150 lbs, throws around a 5-600 lbs slab of metal like it's a bag of cotton balls.

I think in the anime scene, the formula for highlighting proficiency in a skill is to make it look as improbable as possible. The huge muscle guys are weaklings and the masters look emaciated.

Here's the thing though - The original FFVII's Cloud doesn't have the necessary muscle mass for what he's doing either. In fact, wielding the Buster Sword efficiently is already physically impossible since the forward momentum of wielding that blade with any meaningful speed would send Cloud flying off like rag-doll.

If you're being entirely selective with the physics of your world to begin with - what way in which you're being selective matters little if at all.

Also, notice that Cloud is not wielding the blade in the remake like he was in the original. His visibly struggling with each swing, whilst in the original he twirled it around like a god damn cheer-leader's baton.

At the end though - Cloud is a person enhanced by alien cells and Mako energy - why Cloud being relatively skinny and wielding the buster sword like it's a feather is worse than Cloud being slightly more skinny and wielding the sword like it's actually big and heavy makes no sense what so ever.

If people want to rag on the remake - there are plenty of good places to do so - like how they ditched the anime aesthetic of the original, for this uninspired quasi-realistic manure that they've been doing since VIII, the fact that they're taking the game-play in the direction of action which is wholly counter-productive for strategical game-play involving a party of several characters, or the fact that they couldn't even get Uematsu back to work on the soundtrack.
Let's not get bogged down on non-essentially changes that don't make a meaningful impact on quality one way or the other because the original already did it poorly.

[hian]

Delete this.

[KnifeTheSky77]

I wasn't saying it as a dig against the game, just a silly observation. I think incorporating 'caricature of strength' as part of the styling is cool. It shows that strength isn't directly correlated to physical attributes like muscle mass, but can come from proficiency, mental state, drugs etc