Author Topic: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep  (Read 13770 times)

L. Spiro

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In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« on: 2006-12-06 08:34:00 »
Article

I agree with host Jerry Klein.


L. Spiro
« Last Edit: 2006-12-07 03:57:56 by L. Spiro »

Kashmir

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Re: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« Reply #1 on: 2006-12-06 10:32:44 »
You might wanna fix up that link a little

RPGillespie

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Re: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« Reply #2 on: 2006-12-06 13:04:14 »
In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
Click^

[Edit]
I agree with Jerry Klien as well, that it would be no different from when the Nazis marked the Jews during WWII. However, I must point out that I do think that the muslim religion is very wicked and corrupt. I myself am somewhat mistrusting of muslims as a whole, though I try not to judge on appearence. One of my problems with Islam is its "success" as a religion -- it is based on the fact that "muslim missionaries" (more like Islamic armies) virtually went on religious conquests, forcing everybody to become muslim regardless of their beliefs. Also, it is not a good thing when your religion is associated with mass murder and rape...

In addition to Islam's anti-free-agency conquests,
"Islamic countries are fascist, autocratic or theocratic, where women are subjugated and minorities persecuted. Islamic countries are rife with poverty and have been for centuries. Polls show that in many Islamic countries a majority of Muslims lionize the man responsible for the atrocities of September 11th and the terrorist gangs who routinely slaughter civilians in Israeli buses and restaurants. In Arab schools and on Arab television, children are taught the glory of becoming suicide bombers. Almost everywhere that Islam borders other cultures, there is violence."
« Last Edit: 2006-12-07 19:14:42 by RPGillespie »

L. Spiro

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Re: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« Reply #3 on: 2006-12-08 01:52:35 »
I was shocked and appauled that people agreed with his hoax as well.
When I first read his proposal and read that the phones went off the hook, I naturally assumed it was because of people telling him to screw himself.
But, naturally, America, being a country where bad news spreads to all and actual knowledge spreads to few, and those without knowledge draw—and act upon—their own conclusions, would not stop short of disgracing itself over this issue once again.


L. Spiro

corpse

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Re: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« Reply #4 on: 2006-12-08 09:42:26 »
I myself am somewhat mistrusting of muslims as a whole, though I try not to judge on appearence. One of my problems with Islam is its "success" as a religion -- it is based on the fact that "muslim missionaries" (more like Islamic armies) virtually went on religious conquests, forcing everybody to become muslim regardless of their beliefs. Also, it is not a good thing when your religion is associated with mass murder and rape...

Hi

I just wondered if you were aware of the crusades, where the pope (who at the time was basically a warlord) conquered lands and tired mass conversions. The Christian religion is guilty of the same things you described, at one time or another. Actually I suppose my point is that all religion is the root of all evil. People have got away with doing really evil things in the past because it was in there name of their god. I don't like what some Muslims do, but doesn't mean I mistrust all of them. I judge them when I meet an individual.

Jari

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Re: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« Reply #5 on: 2006-12-08 10:40:40 »
Meh, corpse beat me to playing the Crusades-card, but little repetition never hurt...

However, I must point out that I do think that the muslim religion is very wicked and corrupt.

Oh, I can't wait for you to tell us why you think so.


One of my problems with Islam is its "success" as a religion -- it is based on the fact that "muslim missionaries" (more like Islamic armies) virtually went on religious conquests, forcing everybody to become muslim regardless of their beliefs. Also, it is not a good thing when your religion is associated with mass murder and rape...

One of my problems with Christianity is its "success" as a religion -- it is based on the fact that "christian missionaries" (more like Christian armies) virtually went on religious conquests, forcing everybody to become Christian regardless of their beliefs. Also, it is not a good thing when your religion is associated with mass murder and rape...

How does the concept of Crusades sit with your values?



...where women are subjugated and minorities persecuted. Islamic countries are rife with poverty and have been for centuries...



























Pictures shamelessly stolen from Worldisround.com.

Yup yup, rife with poverty and subjugating women.

Of course, certain countries have been keeping their Jesus-loving fingers out of Iran for almost like... *gasp* 30 years by now. No wonder they are not rife with poverty. Of course, things like that have to fixed, which is why you are seeing glimmer of war in Dubya's beady eyes.


EDIT: Of course, quoting a pundit whose blog's ingress says something like "...these are the product of a specific cultural evolution having its genesis in Ancient Greece and reaching the summit of philosophical maturity in the Anglo-American Enlightenment." does have some dangers. He sounds like he's just a teeny weeny bit full of himself, and his cultural "superiority". :-D
« Last Edit: 2006-12-08 10:47:25 by Jari »

ChaosControl

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Re: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« Reply #6 on: 2006-12-08 10:56:12 »
Religion just sucks, nothing more nothing less.
It's overrated and shouldn't be allowed.

RPGillespie

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Re: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« Reply #7 on: 2006-12-08 13:20:48 »
One of my problems with Islam is its "success" as a religion -- it is based on the fact that "muslim missionaries" (more like Islamic armies) virtually went on religious conquests, forcing everybody to become muslim regardless of their beliefs. Also, it is not a good thing when your religion is associated with mass murder and rape...

One of my problems with Christianity is its "success" as a religion -- it is based on the fact that "christian missionaries" (more like Christian armies) virtually went on religious conquests, forcing everybody to become Christian regardless of their beliefs. Also, it is not a good thing when your religion is associated with mass murder and rape...

How does the concept of Crusades sit with your values?

Of course, certain countries have been keeping their Jesus-loving fingers out of Iran for almost like... *gasp* 30 years by now. No wonder they are not rife with poverty. Of course, things like that have to fixed, which is why you are seeing glimmer of war in Dubya's beady eyes.
Of course all Christians are associated with these crusades correct? Oh, wait... The Christian crusades were sanctioned by the Pope, who is the leader of the Catholic religion. I completely agree with you on that third to last statement except for one part which I will have to add later because I have to go to class.

*pictures*
Anyone can go and find pictures of people having fun in just about any country.

EDIT: Of course, quoting a pundit whose blog's ingress says something like "...these are the product of a specific cultural evolution having its genesis in Ancient Greece and reaching the summit of philosophical maturity in the Anglo-American Enlightenment." does have some dangers. He sounds like he's just a teeny weeny bit full of himself, and his cultural "superiority". :-D
Note how I only quoted the portion I agreed with. Just because I quoted 2 sentences doesn't mean I agree with his entire blog.

corpse

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Re: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« Reply #8 on: 2006-12-08 14:37:54 »
Just face it rpg, your statement is full of flaws.

Jari

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Re: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« Reply #9 on: 2006-12-08 14:55:09 »
Of course all Christians are associated with these crusades correct? Oh, wait... The Christian crusades were sanctioned by the Pope, who is the leader of the Catholic religion. I completely agree with you on that third to last statement except for one part which I will have to add later because I have to go to class.

And surely you realize that I could take your first sentence and replace the "Christians" with "Muslims" (and replace crusades with the Islamic equivalent, of course) and it would still be just as true ?

Although this is the first time I've heard someone talk about Catholic religion. It's hardly a religion of its own.

Not to mention, at that time there were lot less Churches (as in Catholic, Protestant... not as in buildings) around - so like it or not, most of the modern ones are merely offsprings of the Catholic church of that day. Offspring that certainly didn't seem very eager to separate when the crusades were happening.

In fact, I believe that only Oriental Orthodoxes had separated before the Crusades, and Eastern Orthodoxes separated during the crusades. All the rest are more modern.

So, while I agree that not all Christians as people are associated with the Crusades, I also think that the "Catholics did it!" is an excuse and a pretty lame one, too.


Anyone can go and find pictures of people having fun in just about any country.

...but not all countries are said to be rife with poverty and subjugating women. It would seem that these particular women don't seem that subjugated, nor the country very poor.

Could it be that the pundit is painting a picture that suits his purposes?


Note how I only quoted the portion I agreed with. Just because I quoted 2 sentences doesn't mean I agree with his entire blog.

That's good. :)

Simon

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Re: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« Reply #10 on: 2006-12-08 18:06:16 »
You folks are judging philosphical systems based on the actions of people who claim to practise them. This is being a little immature because every worldview whether it be Christianity, Islam, Atheism or any other for that matter has followers who are quite capable of being wankers to humanity.

Now this thread is about Islam and if you want to bash it for whatever reason you should bash it for it's teachings from the Koran and not base your argument on the behaviour of those who say they are Muslim.

corpse

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Re: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« Reply #11 on: 2006-12-08 18:40:12 »
I think the point we were trying to make (at least I was,) All sorts of things are done in the name of religion. Some good others evil, but the point is that individuals should not be pre-judge based on what they believe.  They should be judged on there actions and what they say etc.

The other point is: although we were bashing religions, we trying to state that doesn't seem to matter what someone believes in, They are still Human. As such cable of committing acts of evil, at the same time believe that religion is some sort of justification. 
« Last Edit: 2006-12-09 08:32:10 by corpse »

Simon

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Re: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« Reply #12 on: 2006-12-08 22:08:41 »
Quote
Although this is the first time I've heard someone talk about Catholic religion.
A famous Nobel Prize winner springs instantly to mind. Ring any bells?

corpse

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Re: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« Reply #13 on: 2006-12-08 23:11:13 »
sorry nothing is ringing bells for me.

and what is your point Simon?

 

Jari

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Re: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« Reply #14 on: 2006-12-09 04:03:49 »
Simon: None whatsoever. I'm sure that you'll be most pleased to educate me though, since you already got that far. :-D

Not that it would magically mean that I would have heard the usage before, Nobel Prize winner or no. :) Perhaps more importantly, seems that Wikipedia is completely in the dark too.

Sukaeto

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Re: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« Reply #15 on: 2006-12-09 05:40:06 »
I've got one word: ethno . . . (Jari, I know you know what I'm thinking, so you can finish it if you like ;-) )

Kashmir

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Re: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« Reply #16 on: 2006-12-09 09:27:00 »
we trying to state that doesn't seem to matter what someone believes in, They are still Human.

Opinion is divided on the matter, both in the athiest & religious communities.

Alot of people think too highly of themselves or that they are somehow better than others and are unwilling to accept others for who they are, thats what starts this shite off ... its not a belief dependant trait.

at the same time believe that religion is some sort of justification. 

Someone with an agenda has to convince them of it first, as far as i know its against every religion there is, you know "Love thy neihbor as you would love yourself" and all those sayings you here every now and then. Either that or they are just fools that have chosen to ignor alot of thier own religion, or have been taught wrong.

I really hate this metaphor that im going to use, and your going to hate it as well... but lattely ive been watching those so called reality shows (the dance one to be a little more specific), and there are those people that try out for the show, thinking that they can dance well because they have been taking lessons for the last five years and so on... but then they do their little one minute thing and they completely suck because they have in fact been taught by a bad instructor whos really either just interested in getting paid, or was also been taught by a bad instructor. Thats how alot of people are, im sure you've all heard the saying before... "the blind lead the blind" its got nothing to do with the religion but them passing on their own twisted perspective of the religion.
Then the more you hasle the people with that religion just because of a few bad apples, the more of them start to accept that same twisted perspective. You cannot fight fire with fire.
(oh crap, how many  more of these stupid sayings can i fit in this post)

In the story of adam and eve, the serpent (aka the devil) was said to have twisted the words of god to convince them to sin.

On the other hand, i dont know anything about the islamic religion so it could be completely trucked up for all i know, but i assume that if it was there would be a whole lot less people following it.

RPGillespie

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Re: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« Reply #17 on: 2006-12-09 21:55:44 »
...but i assume that if it was there would be a whole lot less people following it.
Well, the Nazi's were pretty "trucked up" and a lot of people still followed them...
« Last Edit: 2006-12-09 23:02:51 by RPGillespie »

Kashmir

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Re: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« Reply #18 on: 2006-12-10 02:54:00 »
Well, the Nazi's were pretty "trucked up" and a lot of people still followed them...

The nazis had special state schools where people were raised on the belief that they were the superior species, they rejected traditional religions and nazism became the new religion.

Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism
Nazism is not a precise, theoretically grounded ideology. It consists of a loose collection of ideas and positions: extreme nationalism, racism, eugenics, totalitarianism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, anti-communism, and limits to freedom of religion.

Wow, doesn't america sure fit that description today. Also china springs to mind... but it seems to keep to itself rather than invade iraq so i dont mind, and well i just dont know too much about china.

Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler#Hitler.27s_religious_beliefs
  • Hitler was brought up in his family's religion by his Roman Catholic parents, but as a school boy he began to reject the Church and Catholicism. After he had left home, he never attended Mass or received the Sacraments.
  • Hitler’s private statements, reported by his intimates, are more mixed, showing Hitler as a religious but also anti-Christian man.
  • Hitler did not adhere to esoteric ideas, occultism, or neo-paganism, and ridiculed such beliefs in his book Mein Kampf.
  • Hitler advocated a "Positive Christianity", a belief system purged from what he objected to in traditional Christianity, and reinvented Jesus as a fighter against the Jews.
  • Hitler believed in a Social Darwinist struggle for survival between the different races, among which the "Aryan race" was supposed to be the torchbearers of civilization and the Jews as enemies of all civilization.

Sounds like your kinda man chaos control, why dont you two make a start on burning all the heritics.

Id rather just sit and remain neutral here and let everyone else destroy each other without me, there is no peacefull way to get rid of something.

Midgar

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Re: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« Reply #19 on: 2006-12-10 03:56:06 »
i would actually trust Muslims more than any other religion. Saladin didn't kill Christians like Richard the Lionheard did, he just let everyone be. However I agree the most with chaoscontrol.

Kashmir

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Re: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« Reply #20 on: 2006-12-10 04:48:56 »
Meh. i dont care if you dont change you mind about it but, I can only suggest that you shouldn't want to have you ideals forced on anyone else like chaos control does... because as my previous post pointed out, that would make you no better than hitler as thats what he wanted and set out to achieve.

If religion was to successfully baned the resulting war would be unlike anything that has been seen yet. Its my opinion that such a war is unavoidable due to the fact that more and more people are taking that same opinion as chaos control, foolishly thinking that it would somehow be better at the same time that the other half of the world disagrees and would fight back against it if it was to occur.
(i reckon that once the ratio gets to just past half way it will occur, and i would estimate that its only about 1/4 at the moment ... so give it say 500years, thats my guess for ww3)

And as for richard the lionheart, i was under the impression that he was chatholic or something... of to wiki i go.
« Last Edit: 2006-12-10 04:53:55 by Kashmir »

Otokoshi

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Re: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« Reply #21 on: 2006-12-10 04:55:18 »
Quote from: chaoscontrol
Religion just sucks, nothing more nothing less.
It's overrated and shouldn't be allowed.

Quote from: Midgar
i would actually trust Muslims more than any other religion. Saladin didn't kill Christians like Richard the Lionheard did, he just let everyone be. However I agree the most with chaoscontrol.

I respect chaoscontrol's opinions about religion, but who is to say that others can't practice it?  What gives anyone the right to stop others?

Wow...showing prejudice towards an entire religious following because of comparing the actions of two individuals from the twelfth century.  I believe chaoscontrol's religious point of view comes from the fact that organized religion has a tendency to divide people, cause conflict, and mistrust.  And you are doing just that...brilliant.

Kashmir

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Re: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« Reply #22 on: 2006-12-10 05:07:41 »
I respect chaoscontrol's opinions about religion, but who is to say that others can't practice it?  What gives anyone the right to stop others?

Yay, one for the good guys. haha... lol.

Just jesting... i dont consider myself above anyone else here. But i'll have to admit its hard not to fall into that trap.
« Last Edit: 2006-12-10 05:11:12 by Kashmir »

Darkness

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Re: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« Reply #23 on: 2006-12-10 06:01:51 »
One of my problems with Islam is its "success" as a religion -- it is based on the fact that "muslim missionaries" (more like Islamic armies) virtually went on religious conquests, forcing everybody to become muslim regardless of their beliefs.

I had a really long post planned out, but I decided that most of it had already been said or didn't need to be. But this quote above simply isn't accurate. Forced conversions are actually somewhat rare. Since the early caliphates non-converts have been an important source of tax revenue. So important that at times it was even difficult to convert to dodge the jizya. The Prophet Muhammad himself had a brief alliance with Jewish tribes in Medina. Albanian Christians made up the elite infantry of the Ottomans. Conversion was very low in India. And those who converted still retained many indigenous practices as they adopted Sufism. Even Persian Zoroastrians were not forced to convert.

RW_66

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Re: In U.S., fear and distrust of Muslims runs deep
« Reply #24 on: 2006-12-10 06:10:18 »
I think the basic problem with most Monotheistic institutions, including the Judaic, Christian, and Islamic religons, is the idea that "God" (in whatever form) is on your side. Therefore, all other religons and their followers are wrong and evil. If "God" is on your side, and you are fighting for "him", there is no crime that you can commit in "his" name.

You're not killing, you're "purifying", "cleansing", or (even more cynically)"bring 'God' to the masses". Anybody who resists you is resisting "God", and therefore evil in the extreme. Executing them becomes more than a mere nesessity, it is a duty to the Almighty himself. Rape, murder, pillage, all are forgiven, because you are doing the "Lord's Work". And if you die, don't worry. You become a "martyr" to the cause. And we'll kill even more people in your name. Plus, you'll get a fast pass to "Heaven" and your ultimate reward.

The really sad part of this all is that neither the Torah, the Bible, nor the Qhu'ran, advocate or excuse this type of thinking or behavior. In fact, all unanimously denouce it as evil. However, RELIGOUS LEADERS are the people who are twisting and defiling the very things they claim to uphold, usually to expand their power among people. After all, they're "selected/blessed by 'God' ", and therefore able to correctly 'interpret' his words and meanings.

The problem isn't with religon, per se. The problem comes from religous organizations. One person shouting out that 'somethings wrong' isn't dangerous. But when authority figures, especially those espoused to be to be leaders of their communities religous beliefs, start 'preaching' hate and intolerance of others.. well now we see the backlash this generates in others who become the victims of those views.

Don't get me wrong, because I in no way support or agree with those who are willing to trade liberty and justice for security and a false sense of peace. But, the only way to truly 'win' this type of attack, is to refuse to change at the others behest. Every time we ltrade away our rights for some false sense of security, they win. It simply encourages them to do bigger and more damaging attacks, because they can make us change, which is their goal.