Author Topic: My European Friends...Sorry (Read 14421 times)

Otokoshi · « **on:** 2007-02-23 21:56:07 »

Don't know what else to say but...that really bites. It may come out good for the consumer since Sony is cutting production costs. But will they cut the price? If Sony's updates give better backwards compatability and soon, they can avoid a potential blunder. Will they? Look at their track record and decide for yourself I guess.

Synergy Blades · « **Reply #1 on:** 2007-02-23 22:25:21 »

The Emotion Engine's removal was always going to happen eventually... but someone in Sony's PR department needs to be fired. Quickly. Be like politicians and spin it positively... "a limited selection"? Anyone could come up with something better at that, and then to crown it off with a comment about not keeping up with compatibility via firmware and focusing on the new generation really was head-shake-inducing (something about ongoing support PlayStation fans and a long-term target of better compatibility than current PS2-in-PS3 h/w would at least have gone down well). Withholding the compatibility list until release seems entirely unfair, too; I have visions of them currently ploughing through testing and getting the software emulator up to speed. I suspect if it's anything less than 75, 80% of PS2 titles Sony's in for a riot.

Darkness · « **Reply #2 on:** 2007-02-23 22:27:29 »

Who would buy a ps3 anyway, right?

Jari · « **Reply #3 on:** 2007-02-23 22:35:34 »

Quote from: Synergy Blades on 2007-02-23 22:25:21

Withholding the compatibility list until release seems entirely unfair, too; I have visions of them currently ploughing through testing and getting the software emulator up to speed.

I believe that that is exactly what they are doing. Sony's head of UK PR David Wilson has this to say:

Quote

We have been assessing the extent of backward compatibility, and will continue to do so right up until launch. It is therefore not possible to provide a specific number of backwards compatible titles at this stage.

Personally I think that Sony is providing great entertainment beyond any measure, but then again I'm not in the market for a PS3.

I'd have totally set up a campaign to Googlebomb "failure" to point to PS3 product page, but Google has tweaked their algos and even removed the old Googlebombs. *sniff* WHY GOOGLE, WHY?!?! WE NEED A GOOGLEBOMB NOW MORE THAN EVER!!!111

James Pond · « **Reply #4 on:** 2007-02-24 12:44:06 »

Why anyone would want that piece of shit excuse for Backwards Compatability is beyond me.

Its a pisstake at how BAD it handles the up-scaling.

Colour loss
Jaggies galore
low framerates where the originals were fine.

If it fixes this, the PS3 may not completely fail in the UK.

Admittedly Microsoft are slow on the backwards compatability, but at least the games which have been cleared (Around 200+ now I believe...viewable here http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/backwardcompatibilitygameslist.htm) all work flawlessly.

The 360 has won this generations war before it had even started, Sony fucked up big time going for another obscure format imo. You ask people in the street, "which of the brand names do you know : Blu-Ray - HD-DVD", 85% of the general public ages 18-45 knew what HD-DVD was, only 35% knew what Blu-Ray was. for the same matter, only 6% of those asked knew what a UMD was.

Sony seem, at least to me, to have lost the foothold they gained with the success of the PS2, and its going to cost them big...

Synergy Blades · « **Reply #5 on:** 2007-02-24 13:10:26 »

I assume you're talking about the backwards compatibility before the 1.51 firmware update this month, that fixed the terrible upscaling problems that were there since launch. Also, those numbers do seem rather plucked straight out of the air, considering the number of people that know about HD DVD or Blu-ray in this country is very low - what with less than 10% of households actually owning an HDTV. It will be interesting to see after the launch how many people know about Blu-ray; like it or not, the PS3 will increase awareness of it, as can be seen with the increasing sales numbers for Blu-ray in the States, very strong corporate support for the format, and the decisions of retailers in the states and Australia (JB Hi-fi, Blockbuster) to only stock Blu-ray. Don't forget a free Casino Royale for PS3 registrants.

Synergy Blades · « **Reply #6 on:** 2007-02-24 13:22:44 »

It seems the software emulator is to handle upscaling better than straight hardware emulation by rendering straight out to 720/1080p. FFXII looks pretty good.

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/634/highresko6.jpg
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/7133/highres2in9.jpg

James Pond · « **Reply #7 on:** 2007-02-24 13:35:36 »

Quote from: Synergy Blades on 2007-02-24 13:10:26

I assume you're talking about the backwards compatibility before the 1.51 firmware update this month, that fixed the terrible upscaling problems that were there since launch. Also, those numbers do seem rather plucked straight out of the air, considering the number of people that know about HD DVD or Blu-ray in this country is very low

Yes - And no, they wern't "Plucked out of the air", It was in the tabloids a few weeks ago.

Jari · « **Reply #8 on:** 2007-02-24 15:00:14 »

I suppose the real stickler here are Sony's ~~talking points~~ lies, like:

HAHAHAHA, MS has two SKUs. Oh wait, so do we.
Our console does TrueHD. Too bad it has no hardware scaler in it, so if your old HDTV set won't accept 720p, your console actually does TrueSDTV.
It's not expensive, get a second job.
Europeans don't mind waiting.
Ooops, Europeans don't mind paying some more, in addition to waiting.
Our console has almost 100% backwards compatibility. Fucking oops, it doesn't anymore.
Excellent, Europeans don't mind waiting, paying some more and getting some features removed from them! Gotta love those Europeans.
Good thing we sneakily prevented all imports to Europe too, not to mention shut down perhaps the premium video game import company. Otherwise the silly Europeans might have like... imported US consoles! See, we are not as stupid as people say we are - we figured this one out well in advance.

I mean, the correct way of doing it would have been to supply every market with consoles having hardware bc, then start offering improved bc via emulation and then removing EE and (possibly) GS.

Mark my words, Sony planned this all along, and this is one of the main reasons for shutting down Lik-Sang and getting a precedent about how importing (for sale) is illegal.

PS. Just you wait a year or two, the rollers in those slot-in drives will wear down and the drives start failing - and scratching discs. More class action suits for Fony.

Borde · « **Reply #9 on:** 2007-02-24 19:15:47 »

So it seems Jari. Who could have imagined this? Now that movement makes sens. Certainly Sony is insulting european with every move they make. If the Ps3 manages somehow to end up dominating the market, it will be a real shame for Nintendo and Microsoft because Sony is giving them the biggest possible adventage.
As for the graphical upgrade possible through emulation... well, it's certainly nice (I bet it could look better since AA seems to be turned off in those shoots). But how easy will be to achive such a thing with an emulator without graphical glitches? Has anyone around here tested PCSX2? Even FFX (wich plays quiet well) has some evident clipping problems. Microsoft went with emulation and they are having a hard time trying to emulate an XBOX which is not very different from a PC. There have been PC emulators for ages, but how many PS2 emulators have you seen? Yes, of course it will be easier for Sony to emulate that system than it has been for the PCSX2 team (how long took them? 5 years to get something that can finally run decently a few games?), but I'm pretty sure it will take them time (and not a short time) to make a decent emulator.

James Pond · « **Reply #10 on:** 2007-02-24 21:35:53 »

You do realise the PS3 outside of EU actually had a PS2 IN it dont you. Thats how backwards compatability was done, not via software, but a physical PS2 processor in the PS3.

Untill the update, it simply upscaled the gfx to "HD", if thats what you can call it.

The Skillster · « **Reply #11 on:** 2007-02-25 21:49:42 »

Sony for many years have Pi**ed on its EU client base, I really hate them for doing so.
Supposedly the EU console will have a redesigned Case, now I wonder if anything will be missing (ports etc).
If ever I get a PS3 - maybe when I am forced to by game designer's choices to go exculsively to Sony - I will have Linux on their and find something usefull for it to do while it sits on the shelve (email/file/counter strike server?) and make use of the Â£400 or so I have to shell out for it.
Not to mention the fact it is larger then the old console (what ever happened to general thinking in technology that more advanced usually equals smaller?).
Sony have not won a fan in me that is for sure.

Synergy Blades · « **Reply #12 on:** 2007-02-25 21:56:09 »

No vanishing ports. No case redesign either, though the internal chassis may be built differently which won't affect actual functioning.

James Pond · « **Reply #13 on:** 2007-02-25 23:49:57 »

I will only buy one for MGS4, and not before its been about about 2 years.

The Skillster · « **Reply #14 on:** 2007-02-26 06:47:18 »

Ahmen to that.

Jari · « **Reply #15 on:** 2007-03-01 16:05:56 »

And how much is one un-emulated European PS2 game worth to Fony?

Somewhere between one and two cents. That's what they save by not emulating them.

Today came the announcement about PS3's software emulation situation: "The situation is changing every day, but on March 23, we expect the list to include over 1,000 PS2 titles". Of about 2000 to 2500 European PS2 titles. Compared to the (supposed) 98% emulation achieved by hardware - even it has glitches and lots of times these glitches just happen to be on big titles. So, Europeans are missing 1000 to 1500 titles. For a saving of 15 to 30 dollars - per console of course - consumer doesn't care how much Fony saves. And actually no saving from consumer's viewpoint, since Fony hasn't lowered the European price one bit, in fact they raised it!

Notice how he says "expected". Which also hints that they don't have any clue.
His name is Phil Harrison. He's known for such great quotes as "But I don't think we're arrogant...", "PS3 Demand Is Unprecedented", "PlayStation 3 launch has been, objectively by any measure, more successful than PlayStation 1, PlayStation 2 or other competing system out previously.", "Nobody will ever use 100% of PS3's capability"... the man obviously is a quotemachine, but I don't think that his touch with reality is very good.

So, what does this mean? The currently claimed success rate is between 40% and 50%, which is pretty good, 360 has a lower one. Compared to 98% and lower price of US PS3, it's not good at all, though.

Then couple of things I realised lately; supposedly PAL PS3 is lacking Emotion Engine (no wonder, it would be crying if it had one), but it does have the GS. So, say byebye to higher resolutions, FSAA and other such things; it's emulating only the emotions, graphics still come from the same old hardware. And perhaps more importantly; Fony's track record at limiting imports... what do you think, will the software emulation play NTSC PS2 titles? I think not. And making it play them can range from being fairly easy (think PSP security), to not easy at all (think 360 security), depending on if Fony has learned anything about security.

Synergy Blades · « **Reply #16 on:** 2007-03-01 16:55:50 »

Quote

will the software emulation play NTSC PS2 titles?

No, but region-locked backwards compatibility has been stated since the outset, EE/GS onboard or not.

Jari · « **Reply #17 on:** 2007-03-02 03:59:51 »

Heh, yeah, that would make sense.

I guess I have just grown so accustomed to my HDLoader (for PS2, of course), that the idea of hardware based locking didn't seem much of an obstacle.

Anyway, in the other news today, Fony found out that pride is a bitter pill to swallow, to the tone of $91 million and no rumble for PS3. Or if you want that in English; Fony finally paid up and made up with Immersion. Basically all that Fony achieved with their "we are not going to pay" was a rumble-less PS3. But it would have been technically impossible to have both motion control and rumble anyway, that's what Fony said.

And then Fony tried to blackball Kotaku for posting a rumor (they post something else too?!?), but that didn't end so well. Note to Fony execs; public relation exercises in the tune of "we ain't going to talk to you anymore" don't work out, if the other party has considerably more public goodwill than you do. Currently entities having more goodwill than Fony probably include Hitler and Stalin, too.

The Skillster · « **Reply #18 on:** 2007-03-02 04:34:12 »

HD loader was a god send. But kudos goes to the independence exploit which really made it all happen with the mode 9 hack (or something along those lines).
Took me an age to learn it all and get the files I needed onto my memory card, but its been well worth it ever since. Mind you I do this to get rid of my DVDs so I can throw them out or sell them, I wish you could do the same with PSX games, it would save the effort of using ISOs with an emulator, Hope someone finds a way to run HD loader on PS3 (mind you with backwards compatibility issue, would PS3 run FFXI with the hard drive? I doubt it).

L. Spiro · « **Reply #19 on:** 2007-03-02 05:59:01 »

PlayStationÂ® 3 Song.

My coworkers wonâ€™t stop singing it.

ã‚¨ãƒ«ã€€ã‚¹ãƒ‘ã‚¤ãƒ

Jedimark · « **Reply #20 on:** 2007-03-02 07:09:01 »

That song is hillarious!

ChaosControl · « **Reply #21 on:** 2007-03-02 13:29:07 »

Hahahaha,
That made my day

Jari · « **Reply #22 on:** 2007-03-07 19:40:24 »

Sony unveiled Home at GDC07:

http://kotaku.com/gaming/clips/gdc07-clip-the-ps3s-home-242341.php
http://kotaku.com/gaming/gdc07/gdc07-sony-unveils-home-242332.php

Personally I love the comments on the video piece; fickle is the mind of a fanboy.

First they were bashing Sony about everything - not that Fony wouldn't have deserved it - and now... now they seem to be gushing about Second Life clone / really awkward GUI for online multiplayer.

I'm of the "Now, why do I want to do this?"-mind.

It looks pretty and all... but why? If I wanted to play with virtual doll house, I'd just get Second Life and go yiffing with the furries. Because unlike here, there you can actually create your own stuff, instead of ~~downloading~~ buying (notice how many times they say that you can download this or that from PlayStation Store? Notice the Store in that sentence? Notice how they are avoiding the word buy?

).

Lobby for online games? Hello Sony, didn't anyone ever tell you anything about UI-design? Namely about things how too many levels of links are baaaad? So, in order to play an online title (I'd imagine that you can do it like you do it now, too. I'd certainly hope so.), I'd first have to log into Home, hoping that the servers are up and running and not lagging horribly. Then I'd start the game? Umm, no thanks.

Does Sony think that I'd actually want to socialize with the people who play games online? Hellll-ooo? We are talking about largely <18 crowd, whose greatest accomplishment is to yell to their mom, because they can't get their motherfucking chocolate milk. Apologies for swearing, but that's what the kid said. I'm sure you have seen the video I'm talking about.

Then again, I think that MySpace servers should be blown up, all users killed and the inventors killed, resurrected and killed again for few thousand times. At least long enough that they'll repent. So, maybe this shit just ain't for me.

That being said, it does look pretty.

James Pond · « **Reply #23 on:** 2007-03-07 23:28:12 »

Oi, I have a myspace >_>

Jari · « **Reply #24 on:** 2007-03-07 23:47:14 »

I'll call the death squad.

EDIT: PAL PS3 Backwards Compatability Progress Update

Mad lulz.