Author Topic: [PC] Mod manager - 7thHeaven (v1.54)  (Read 440724 times)

Template

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #300 on: 2013-08-12 11:49:56 »
The real issue with that is that you have to download the whole iro file before configuring which one you want - if you have 10 separate mods, at least you're only downloading the one(s) you're interested in. If you pack all 10 into a 1GB iro file, then you end up downloading them entire thing even if you really only wanted one particular set of models.

I don't know what other people prefer, but I'd rather have lots of smaller mods, than 15 huge ones that each take a lot longer to download. It makes it a lot easier to just try things out.

One of the reasons I want to do it this way is to avoid bugs. Many times when you change a model, it affects a group of other models that also use some of the same files. If I have known sets of models that have been fixed specifically so they don't conflict with each other, I would rather use those then have people constantly running into little bugs they've created for themselves by using 2 incompatible small mods which they then have to try to figure out which one needs to be swapped etc.

This is part of the reason more and more people started using bootleg. PitBrat and the rest of his team of shadowy figures (VGR) fixed a list of bugs a km long. But the files had to be put together in a certain way if you want to use the chibis... and a certain way if you want to use this particular difficulty mod with this particular model... and it just goes on and on.

Most of the people you see coming through Qhimm are trying to figure out how to use EQ2Alyza's 17GB torrent. It's a monoblock, you can't break it apart. 10 1GB mods in a catalog people can look through and then choose 2 to actually download, which will cover every type of mod, plus Omzy's field pack doesn't seem so bad. The more advanced or obsessive folks are downloading individual mods... only one of them is really big (Omzy's) the rest are almost all small groups of files that may or may not do more than they are designed to do. Bootleg works one way... installing those groups of small mods in the proper order and making changes to them during the install process so that you don't have to know the tricks.

This will work similarly, but the compromise for the instant uninstall/swap features you've created will be slightly larger mod size for the "bootleg subscription", which will give people the stability and versatility that bootleg offers. I'm just going to start calling it that because what I'm trying with this catalog is to emulate the "meat" of bootleg. Another factor is that there will always be the ability to create alternate subscriptions if people would prefer: a Tifa's torrent style catalog with every possible bootleg mod (there's the 100-150 mods in the catalog at once), a plain old movie catalog. Then perhaps in the future something will come along to do all of the external things like convert the game, configure and run the TA installer/s, ff7music, set up 7thHeaven and your preferred subscription, organize a VHD.     

I guess I'll put up a test catalog in the next few days and see what you think.
« Last Edit: 2013-08-12 11:53:04 by Template »

cmh175

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #301 on: 2013-08-12 13:28:35 »
As far as a single .iro with different mod packages you can select, this is very doable. Actually not very hard either. What's better is that you can package it into a rar file and compress it to a third of it's size. I put together a 3.2 gb iro for testing and when I uploaded it to email myself (didn't have a thumb drive) it was about 632mb, so download speeds wont be a problem. For an example you could configure it so you can select a base model pack, and have Kaldarasha's unshaded models load over top of them, and then still be able to load other models over top of them like APZ Cloud. If you set them up like that, going from the bottom up, each pack just loads over top of each other.

~I was referring to the xml by the way. Everything you add goes up in priority from the bottom up.
« Last Edit: 2013-08-12 14:06:36 by cmh175 »

EQ2Alyza

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #302 on: 2013-08-12 13:41:03 »
The real issue with that is that you have to download the whole iro file before configuring which one you want - if you have 10 separate mods, at least you're only downloading the one(s) you're interested in. If you pack all 10 into a 1GB iro file, then you end up downloading them entire thing even if you really only wanted one particular set of models.

I don't know what other people prefer, but I'd rather have lots of smaller mods, than 15 huge ones that each take a lot longer to download. It makes it a lot easier to just try things out.

Catalogs can be created in bulks (e.g. EQ2Alyza's Mod Pack, containing over 9000! mods personally selected), or one that mirrors The Big List of Mods, where every individual is packed into IRO form. In my eyes, the options are endless, and anyone can create whatever catalog they'd like  :)

Iros

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #303 on: 2013-08-12 17:47:40 »
Good point, if Template's creating large contain-everything mods, somebody else can always create a catalog of smaller install-everything-individually mods. Look forward to seeing the first catalog(s) posted...

cmh175

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #304 on: 2013-08-12 22:33:17 »
Hey so I'm still testing the random battle model feature and it doesn't seem to be working. This is my latest script:

Code: [Select]
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<ModInfo>
  <Author>cmh175</Author>
  <Version>1.07</Version>
  <Description>Random Battle Model Generator Test</Description>
   
  <Conditional Folder="Sweeper1">
    <RuntimeVar Var="CounterRnd:IrosTestChangeModel:10" Values="0" ApplyTo="battle.lgp\cvaa" />
    <RuntimeVar Var="Counter:IrosTestChangeModel:10" Values="0,1,5" />
  </Conditional>

<Conditional Folder="Sweeper2">
     <RuntimeVar Var="Counter:IrosTestChangeModel:10" Values="2,4,6,8" ApplyTo="battle.lgp\cvaa" />
  </Conditional>

<Conditional Folder="OriginalSweeper">
    <RuntimeVar Var="Counter:IrosTestChangeModel:10" Values="3,7,9" ApplyTo="battle.lgp\cvaa" />
  </Conditional>
  </ModInfo>

My directories are Random Battle Model Generator\Sweeper1\battle.lgp, so I'm sure everything is correct. I also tried CounterAdv instead but it still failed.

~In case I was battling the wrong enemy (Sweeper is in the first bombing mission yes?) I just tried another using two Cloud models (rtaa) and now it just crashes the second the battle begins. I'm not sure why the first one doesn't work and just loads from the lgp (if it's even the right enemy I'm fighting) while the Cloud one just crashes the game, but either way it seems like something isn't working right.
« Last Edit: 2013-08-13 00:12:49 by cmh175 »

Rundas

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #305 on: 2013-08-13 00:54:38 »
I think I heard somewhere there are two different Sweeper models (?).

PitBrat

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #306 on: 2013-08-13 01:10:57 »
There are two sweeper models. Team Avalanche only released one model. Bootleg uses that model to generate a second model with a different texture.
Because it's a Team Avalanche asset, make sure to clear it with SL1982 before redistributing the sweeper model.

EDIT:
The first sweeper that you encounter in battle is model CVAA.
AV** is the sweeper.
CV** is the custom sweeper.
« Last Edit: 2013-08-14 03:41:38 by PitBrat »

cmh175

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #307 on: 2013-08-13 01:22:29 »
Thanks PitBrat. This is mostly just for a proof of concept since no one's really tested this I think. I went with the Sweeper since it's one of the first enemies you face and you can get three versions of it if you keep back ups of the original lgps. I'll probably just upload the working script once it's ready so others can see how to configure their own, but I can request permission to upload an example iro if anyone really wants to see it in action.

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #308 on: 2013-08-13 01:51:18 »
Because it's a Team Avalanche asset, make sure to clear it with SL1982 before redistributing the sweeper model.
I've attempted to get permissions for redistribution of TA files in iro format. SL1982 asked me to wait until he's had a chance to look at 7thHeaven. It's perfectly understandable and that's why I sent out a form letter for that, and it's part of my excuse for not having a subscription ready. It doesn't really matter for me though, the "bootleg subscription" will be meant to be compatible with actual bootleg40, so if you have the Sweepers from a TA hi-res/bootleg40 install the sweeper being in the iro is not necessary, and indeed, it wont be there unless I do get permission. Neither will the world map overhaul or anything else that comes from an official Team Avalanche mod. The exception being Timu&Millenia's Barret, which I have received special permission for.

On this same subject I have made some progress with the rescaling of TA menus and I am hopeful that I will get the go ahead to distribute them. If not, oh well, I have them, haha. They have not been altered in any way other than various attempts to alleviate artifacts at high internal resolutions without creating new ones, and they are not complete.   

I suspect if SL has any misgivings about 7thHeaven it will be the potential for unofficial subscriptions full of contraband mods.
« Last Edit: 2013-08-13 01:56:59 by Template »

Iros

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #309 on: 2013-08-13 08:30:16 »
Hey so I'm still testing the random battle model feature and it doesn't seem to be working. This is my latest script:

Code: [Select]
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<ModInfo>
  <Author>cmh175</Author>
  <Version>1.07</Version>
  <Description>Random Battle Model Generator Test</Description>
   
  <Conditional Folder="Sweeper1">
    <RuntimeVar Var="CounterRnd:IrosTestChangeModel:10" Values="0" ApplyTo="battle.lgp\cvaa" />
    <RuntimeVar Var="Counter:IrosTestChangeModel:10" Values="0,1,5" />
  </Conditional>

<Conditional Folder="Sweeper2">
     <RuntimeVar Var="Counter:IrosTestChangeModel:10" Values="2,4,6,8" ApplyTo="battle.lgp\cvaa" />
  </Conditional>

<Conditional Folder="OriginalSweeper">
    <RuntimeVar Var="Counter:IrosTestChangeModel:10" Values="3,7,9" ApplyTo="battle.lgp\cvaa" />
  </Conditional>
  </ModInfo>

My directories are Random Battle Model Generator\Sweeper1\battle.lgp, so I'm sure everything is correct. I also tried CounterAdv instead but it still failed.

~In case I was battling the wrong enemy (Sweeper is in the first bombing mission yes?) I just tried another using two Cloud models (rtaa) and now it just crashes the second the battle begins. I'm not sure why the first one doesn't work and just loads from the lgp (if it's even the right enemy I'm fighting) while the Cloud one just crashes the game, but either way it seems like something isn't working right.

What debug output do you get when running the game?

Also, you may well not need an 'OriginalSweeper' folder. If that just contains the original unmodified game files - then it shouldn't be necessary. If none of the mod folders activate, then the wrapper will automatically fall back to letting the game read from the actual LGP files like normal.

Oh, and these lines:

Quote
<Conditional Folder="Sweeper2">
     <RuntimeVar Var="Counter:IrosTestChangeModel:10" Values="2,4,6,8" ApplyTo="battle.lgp\cvaa" />
  </Conditional>

Look wrong. What that's saying is that, in the 'Sweeper2' folder, activate file 'battle.lgp\cvaa' when the counter is one of these values. But none of the other files in that folder will ever get activated!

You probably want to use 'ApplyTo' only on the very first variable that applies CounterRnd - basically just as a trigger to say 'if it's accessing this file, then it's time to update the counters'. For the other folders, you don't really care what file the game is accessing - just check the counter to see if it's allowed or not.

Also, on your first folder:

Code: [Select]
  <Conditional Folder="Sweeper1">
    <RuntimeVar Var="CounterRnd:IrosTestChangeModel:10" Values="0" ApplyTo="battle.lgp\cvaa" />
    <RuntimeVar Var="Counter:IrosTestChangeModel:10" Values="0,1,5" />
  </Conditional>

The first RuntimeVar line applies to battle.lgp\cvaa, the second line applies to all the other files. What if the random counter ends up set to 5? All the other files will activate, but the game won't read from battle.lgp\cvaa in the Sweeper1 folder, because you've said that's only activate when the counter = 0...

So, try something like this:

Code: [Select]
  <Conditional Folder="Sweeper1">
    <RuntimeVar Var="CounterRnd:IrosTestChangeModel:10" Values="0,1,5" ApplyTo="battle.lgp\cvaa" /> <!-- When game tries to access this file, set the counter to a random value < 10. If it's 0/1/5, then use the file from this folder.
    <RuntimeVar Var="Counter:IrosTestChangeModel:10" Values="0,1,5" /> <!-- For all other files, just check the counter, against the same values of 0/1/5 -->
  </Conditional>

<Conditional Folder="Sweeper2">
     <RuntimeVar Var="Counter:IrosTestChangeModel:10" Values="2,4,6,8" /> <!-- No ApplyTo tag: rule applies to ALL files in this folder -->
  </Conditional>

<Conditional Folder="OriginalSweeper">
    <RuntimeVar Var="Counter:IrosTestChangeModel:10" Values="3,7,9" /> <!-- No ApplyTo tag: rule applies to ALL files in this folder. Although you may not need this folder at all. -->
  </Conditional>

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #310 on: 2013-08-13 13:22:23 »
Oh ok, I think I have an idea of how to fix this. I forgot to run it with debug, if it still fails after correcting the script I'll be sure to do that. I thought about the best way to put this together and decided it was better to include all models involved. Otherwise it's dependent on what's in your lgp, and I cant be sure of that. For example with the Sweeper, if you use bootleg you probably have the TA model, but if you install everything manually yourself you may not and still have the original. This would require me to make two different versions with each or require that you install a particular model into your lgp. To simplify activation of the mod I just set everything up myself so you just have to enable it in 7thHeaven. It doesn't make the iro all that much bigger, and I can just compress it if needed to make it a faster download.

Thanks for the help Iros, I'll do some more testing this evening and update you when I get this working. Also, I was going to try the variable dump feature but I don't see how to enable it or anything. It's not in the settings menu. How do I do that and collect the information?
« Last Edit: 2013-08-13 13:43:49 by cmh175 »

Iros

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #311 on: 2013-08-13 14:29:21 »
Also, I was going to try the variable dump feature but I don't see how to enable it or anything. It's not in the settings menu. How do I do that and collect the information?

Oops. Got left out of the new interface; it'll be back in the next version.

cmh175

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #312 on: 2013-08-13 14:47:19 »
lol oh ok, that's cool. I'll be playing with the Random Battle Model Generator.iro for awhile anyway and put together a template to take it on a larger scale, and look forward to trying out the more technical features with the next release.

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #313 on: 2013-08-14 00:21:39 »
Ok so I got the code to work with the two Cloud models I was using, so it's definitely working. The test with the Sweeper isn't working though. It has the same exact code though and the directories are correct. Is it possible I'm just running into another variant of the Sweeper that isn't CVAA? I've been running around the first bombing mission and battling the same looking one. I enabled popups in bootloader and only got one "unknown zero count", nothing else.

~ Damn it, CVAA is the Custom Sweeper, it's found around Midgar on the world map. Ok script works.
« Last Edit: 2013-08-14 01:06:35 by cmh175 »

Template

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #314 on: 2013-08-14 11:58:14 »
Doing some testing with the catalog, Iros. I'm starting to get my motivation back on this. :) There is a problem with recent version on catalog refresh, you have to physically delete the local users\*.*\7thWorkshop\catalog.xml file I think to actually update your catalog if versions change or anything is added etc. Starting to do the preview images... major time sink. But it's one of the bling features of 7thHeaven so it would be lame to ignore it.

Iros

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #315 on: 2013-08-14 12:26:44 »
Doing some testing with the catalog, Iros. I'm starting to get my motivation back on this. :) There is a problem with recent version on catalog refresh, you have to physically delete the local users\*.*\7thWorkshop\catalog.xml file I think to actually update your catalog if versions change or anything is added etc.

Really?  ???  It won't pick up any changes to a mod unless the version number goes up (that's how it detects that there is updated info available), but if the version number changes, it should automatically put the new information in.

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #316 on: 2013-08-14 13:01:08 »
I actually cant get the version number to change. Through testing my random battle model pack went up to 1.08. Either way the info in 7H always says 1.00 and the date it was added to the library, not when the mod was released.

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #317 on: 2013-08-14 13:01:14 »
Oh, cool. I'll keep that in mind. I guess then maybe it's just an issue with changing subscriptions completely? Like if I try to go back and forth between different subs I've made they won't change unless I delete that file?
I actually cant get the version number to change. Through testing my random battle model pack went up to 1.08. Either way the info in 7H always says 1.00 and the date it was added to the library, not when the mod was released.
Even in the mod.xml you are setting the version number and it's not showing for an imported mod either? 
« Last Edit: 2013-08-14 13:05:55 by Template »

Iros

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #318 on: 2013-08-14 13:08:05 »
I actually cant get the version number to change. Through testing my random battle model pack went up to 1.08. Either way the info in 7H always says 1.00 and the date it was added to the library, not when the mod was released.

Mm, this is really a bug in the import routine. Next version will fix it. Right now it only picks up the version numbers from subscription URLs.

Quote
Oh, cool. I'll keep that in mind. I guess then maybe it's just an issue with changing subscriptions completely? Like if I try to go back and forth between different subs I've made they won't change unless I delete that file?

Not sure I understand.

When the program checks a subscription it looks at the IDs of the mods in the file it downloads. Any IDs that aren't already in the local catalog, just get added. If the ID number is already in the local catalog, it will update the entry *if* the subscription file has a more recent version number.

At least that's how it should work...

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #319 on: 2013-08-14 13:16:33 »
Hmm yes. Thank you for the clarification. This is working as you describe.

I think it may be preferable to make it so it replaces the catalog.xml to avoid conflicting mod versions. But I see that it may not be necessary, If you change subscriptions in the settings, it won't automatically update mods from the old subscription, but it will if you change the settings back to the old sub and then update it. Which is perfectly logical. I wonder if it's possible to have multiple subscriptions, but it's maybe best not to do that either. I almost wish you could kind of lock it to where only certain subscriptions could be used, but that sorta defeats the purpose, in a way. I just know that's what SE would prefer.
« Last Edit: 2013-08-14 13:24:24 by Template »

cmh175

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #320 on: 2013-08-14 13:21:07 »
Oh, cool. I'll keep that in mind. I guess then maybe it's just an issue with changing subscriptions completely? Like if I try to go back and forth between different subs I've made they won't change unless I delete that file?Even in the mod.xml you are setting the version number and it's not showing for an imported mod either?

Yup either through import or drag and drop into the 7H library. Ok cool, it's not as imperative as some of the other features but it'll really help with organizing and differentiating mod packs.   

Iros

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #321 on: 2013-08-14 13:29:32 »
I wonder if it's possible to have multiple subscriptions, but it's maybe best not to do that either.

Yes, the program supports this. Although I only realized when I actually tried to set it up, that it's not so easy to enter the URLs ... because 'enter' closes the settings window. I think shift-Enter? or control-Enter? lets you enter a second line of text in the subscriptions box; you can have as many subscriptions as you want.

Anyway, that's why it doesn't just replace the catalog completely based on the subscription file - you could be subscribed to other sources, too.

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #322 on: 2013-08-14 13:35:47 »
Well that solves that... I'll have to work from some other angle to get you to update this. :evil:

You can copy/paste from a text editor like Notepad++ multiple lines of catalog subs:

Code: [Select]
iros://Url/http$pastebin.com/raw.php?i=Rct9XwiQ
iros://Url/http$pastebin.com/raw.php?i=dYPnEQHP

I did receive approval to use Team Avalanche assets for a Qhimm.com mod catalog so the work is continuing as planned on a full bootleg+ uninstaller.
« Last Edit: 2013-08-15 11:03:24 by Template »

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #323 on: 2013-08-15 11:36:27 »
Hey Iros, is it possible to add support for the "textures" folder? it acts like the mods folder... I don't fully understand it. But there's some important mod parts that get installed there.

Iros

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #324 on: 2013-08-15 12:31:33 »
Really  ???  How does that work? The small mention they get in the config file makes it sound like it was an older feature that modpath replaced - and if you're repackaging them anyway, perhaps they could get updated to use modpath anyway?

I'd have to see how it actually worked, in order to be sure exactly how to support it (if it's needed).