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Miscellaneous Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: ludokreshx on 2011-05-01 22:41:17
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My personal opinion is that with the secret ending at the end of DoC and the notion that Genesis considers himself a good guy, and may have had a revelation after seeing minerva upon his defeat at the end of Crisis Core, it would only make sense to me that there would eventually be a great gathering of all the surviving characters for a massive closure to the entire story be it a tragedy or a triumph. I want to hear you guy's opinions of this, or your own statements or feeling about the situation.
[Edit]
(Grammar and spell check fixes)
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I think people should have realised this from the moment they did the FIRST prequel sequel and that dreadful movie.
When a company is only interested in profit and is trying to carry on a game that was FINISHED- OF COURSE there is going to be an issue.
I have not played any of the spin off games, because I do not need to. FF7 ended with FF7. If more people thought like me, squarenix would be kicked off their backsides into doing something decent.
The fact is, so many of you fell for it yet again, and it really pisses me off. Then 20 years later you roll up with "Has it gone too far" YES. It has and it did the second they thought "Hang on, we can get by on the brand name"
They have played this fanbase for fools, and for years and continue to and WILL continue to until a majority wake up. Originality is key. Not allowing a company to rip the piss out of the fanbase is key. Waking up early and not late is key. Not accepting a sub standard story and game just because it is related somewhat to a story and game you loved, is key.
It is simply too late now. FF7's story has been completely bastardised. What is worse is the amount of fanboys who make excuses for
- lame additions like genesis
- retcons (rufus alive, hojo alive, sephiroth alive)
- poor storytelling (brain in a computer)
- substandard dialogue
- graphics over substance
- cash in.
"Oh he didn't really die... no... we didn't see a body"
"We didn't see any body or his heart stop" < yes I actually did get that response!
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- lame additions like genesis
- retcons (rufus alive, hojo alive, sephiroth alive)
- poor storytelling (brain in a computer)
- substandard dialogue
- graphics over substance
- cash in.
"Oh he didn't really die... no... we didn't see a body"
"We didn't see any body or his heart stop" < yes I actually did get that response!
LOL @ that "heart stop" response
i agree that they did play to cash on this story, but we all should have expected SOMETHING of a prequel considering the gaping hole left about the guy Cloud THOUGHT he was for the majority of the original FF7 game. DoC was unnecessary (agreed) AC was LARGELY unnecessary [but entertaining visually] (agreed), but we all should have seen Crisis Core coming. The Character's Genesis and Angeal were also somewhat unnecessary because their existence causes more gaping holes in the storyline, but i think they closed Angeal for good in a stoic way leaving Weiss & Genesis to be extras. But you have to admit, they did play Gen's placement hard into making him into a key necessity in the event of a closing story.
[edit: spelling errors]
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Me, I still prefer to think the entire human race was wiped out and Red was the only survivor.
Well, and his mate. Whoever she was.
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Red XIII was supposedly the last of his species. Where did the other one come from?
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Red lived for a long time, he could have figured out how to clone himself with some of shinra's tech. Hojo did breed stuff to stop it going extinct. so theres that.
thats about as much of an explanation as you'll ever get
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Before Crisis introduced a female of his species IIRC. It's too bad they did that too because it COMPLETELY goes against the original storyline and is therefore shit. Crisis Core was a damn good game. AC was a substandard movie, but watchable. DoC was completely terrible, with a few redeeming points. I'm in the process of watching BC, so no judgement on it yet.
A final sequel should be made concerning how Genesis gets rid of the last bits of Geostigma, or whatever they try to make the villain. Simply so it can be over with. I do, however, have hope for it given the quality of CC.
I saw a potential candidate for a new villain/hero on another site:
Genesis
Angeal
Sephiroth
T (new character)
coincidence? I think not.
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Red XIII was supposedly the last of his species. Where did the other one come from?
Planet Retcon.
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Red XIII was supposedly the last of his species. Where did the other one come from?
The game never states he's the last of his species. He's the last guardian of Cosmo Canyon, as even Bugenhagen confirms.
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If you remember, Bugen also said "The world is a big place" and that "You may find your soul mate" On top of that, the ending shows him with cubs, which confirms that there is another of his species somewhere.
I read about Before Crisis, and the other is called Deneh. Before Red XIII was kidnapped, both Red and Deneh were performing a ritual, which needed the Female to be sealed away for a number of years.
So really, her existence isn't a retcon, but it's more of how they brought her in. The original implies that there are more of the species across the Planet, rather than there being another locked away that they knew about.
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To be honest I think the English translation may be to blame there again...
{RED XIII}
“My brave mother fought and died here,
but my cowardly father left her…
I am the last of my race.”
cos_btm
How does that play out in Japanese?
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<Red XIII>
「だが勇ましい戦士であった母は死に
ふぬけの父は逃げだし
一族は私だけになってしまった」
一族=clan, not race/species. There, he's the last of his family.
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Well that makes some sense, but then why is Hojo trying to breed Red and Aeris together? If he wanted to stop the cetra from going extinct, aeris could have bred with a human.
Or Am I forgetting part of the dialogue? Doesnt Hojo mention he also wants to do this because Reds genetic presence would greatly extend the life of the offspring as apposed to a half human hybrid?
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Well that makes some sense, but then why is Hojo trying to breed Red and Aeris together? If he wanted to stop the cetra from going extinct, aeris could have bred with a human.
Or Am I forgetting part of the dialogue? Doesnt Hojo mention he also wants to do this because Reds genetic presence would greatly extend the life of the offspring as apposed to a half human hybrid?
It was something about how long the research would take. He, and his subsequent scientists, would need a subject that would live longer than the typical 80 years of a human. At least that's how I always interpreted it.
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<Red XIII>
「だが勇ましい戦士であった母は死に
ふぬけの父は逃げだし
一族は私だけになってしまった」
一族=clan, not race/species. There, he's the last of his family.
heh, useless f*ckin translation, yet again.
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That's why I play my FFVII always in vanilla Japanese builds.
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I saw a potential candidate for a new villain/hero on another site:
Genesis
Angeal
Sephiroth
T (new character)
coincidence? I think not.
I remember reading that when CC was in development :P I remember some people kept saying it was Tseng lmao
Another retcon in Cerberus, was that Hojo looks exactly the same in the flashbacks as he does in FF7. Whereas we've seen in FF7 that he had short hair round about the time they started Project S.
Another thing is, are Genesis and Angeal brothers? I'm confused about how Genesis was born, since he "wasn't born from Gillian's body" :-\
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I remember reading that when CC was in development :-P I remember some people kept saying it was Tseng lmao
Another retcon in Cerberus, was that Hojo looks exactly the same in the flashbacks as he does in FF7. Whereas we've seen in FF7 that he had short hair round about the time they started Project S.
Another thing is, are Genesis and Angeal brothers? I'm confused about how Genesis was born, since he "wasn't born from Gillian's body" :|
From what I understand, Gillian's cells were injected into Genesis while he was still a fetus in his own mom. Angeal on the other hand was conceived by Gillian after she already had been injected with Jenova cells. My CC knowledge is a bit rusty though.
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I have CC right here and would totally g through and make sure but I lack the PSP on which to play it, since the store won't let you trade in imported games...
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Genesis was born from the result of Jenova Project G, lead by Dr. Hollander. Gillian Hewley was injected with Jenova's cells, and her cells were then transplanted into Genesis with the plan this would grant him Jenova's abilities. After Genesis' birth, Professor Hojo's "Project S" which created Sephiroth was deemed superior, and Project G was shut down. Unknown to Hojo and Hollander, the Project G research would continue in Deepground. Genesis was labeled a failed experiment and given to a wealthy landlord in Banora to be raised.
So, going by this Gillian wasn't his mother, but the people he lived with were his adoptive parents.
Also, neither Hollander or Hojo knew about what was going on in Deepground? :-o
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Red XIII was supposedly the last of his species. Where did the other one come from?
just because something is said doesn't make it true, he may have thought he was the last of his kind at one point but lets not forget, at this time in his life he was still only a teenager in comparison to the life span of a human being. he could have easily been mistaken. If I am not mistaken then it is Nanaki himself that states he is the last of his kind, and perhaps also Bugenhagen reinforces this later but I can't clearly remember.
Especially in this case, consider that Nanaki's race is an intelligent species and if they didn't want to be found they could probably manage to stay hidden. Ever since I saw the ending over a decade ago I just assumed he had found another of his kind somewhere in the vastness of the world. I mean he had over 450 years to do so and its pretty hard to completely kill off a species with such longevity.
and I agreed with DLPB, that the spin offs were complete profiteer bullshit. Unlike him however I have played them all, and seen the movie, and they only bore me to tears with how consistently and constrastly terribly the story telling and presentation is compared to the original. You can't just arbitrarily decide to continue a story that has concluded over a decade ago. Of course its possible under the right circumstance, but they were clearly working with dollar signs in their eyes. I think the game is fine the way it is, I don't even really wanna remake lest they ruin the entire game for generations to come.
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Yeah I'm not at all interested in a remake (any more). I use to want it just for the chance to play through the exact same game with no devisatating story changes with next genn graphics and an updated battle system somethinng similar to CC with the retained ability to summon at will. Maybe they could add the new bahamut as a bonus or maybe some neat new materia and what not but generally leave the script the same story the same. Still would be interesting but I would only rent it from gamefly. But I do want a closure story be it a game book graphic novel or a movie. I don't care I just want there to be a reason why genesis returned and a wa to stop sephiroth from returning via posession.
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So really, her existence isn't a retcon, but it's more of how they brought her in.
Right, that's it in a nutshell: Bugenhagen alludes to the existence of a mate somewhere out there, but it's clearly implied that Red hasn't met her yet.
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I wish they never bastardized FF7 with it's spinoffs. The only one I actually liked was Crisis Core.
And CC pissed me off, because with AC, a bunch of newfags joined the FF7 bandwagon just because of it being flashy, then they go play CC, and it completely spoils the FF7 Story for them. Several of my friends have done this and now want to play FF7.
You know what square should have did? Either A. put a disclaimer at the beginning of the game warning players to play FF7 first, or B. asked users whether or not they played FF7, and if they did, replaced Zack with Cloud and changed some stuff slightly. That way, people who played FF7 could see the whole past, and people who didn't could see the fake past so if they ever played FF7, it would come as more of a shock to them. Or have some question from FF7 you have to play to know the answer to.
It would never happen realistically, but still would've been nice.
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I don't even really wanna remake lest they ruin the entire game for generations to come.
And they would... you can see it now... genesis woven into the story, a few changes here and there, tons of cutscenes that add nothing and go on forever... flashy graphics which end up getting in the way. Dumbed down gameplay and areas.
I can see it now... it is the reason I didn't want any preq/seq and I can see exactly where a remake would go. Of course they'd make a fortune no matter how bad it was...
People would run out to buy it and leave their brains squarely up the arse, like usual.
"OMG HAVE U HEARD! THEY REMAKIN IT"
"WoooooOOoAh this is gonna be awesome!"
"Yeah think of the graphics!!!!111!!!"
"Hang on, what about the newer games and how they have actually gone backwards in terms of creativity and writing and game play?"
"YOUR JUST A ***** ! FF7 ALL THE WAY! IT is gonna be aWEeeeeesssssommmmeee!"
"But wait a second..."
"NO SHUT UP! ITS GONNA BE GREAT!!!! CANT WAIT! Sephiroth in REAL FIGHTS!!!"
"yeah that last 20 years, add nothing to the scene, end up taking away from the drama and please little fanboy retards like you. "
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FF7 is done. F%&@ the spinoffs/pre/seqs!
To be honest I really don't care. In my world only FF7 is FF7.
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Yeah OK, let's make more flimsy spin-offs to plug the plot holes left by the previous flimsy spin-offs...
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FF7 was a huge part of my preteen life (seriously, I had a tight knit group of four friends who did nothing but try to best each other in that game for an entire summer, right before FF8 came out - I was the first of us to beat Emerald Weapon), but for some reason when the Compilation started I had a hard time mustering up any interest at all. I never even bothered watching Advent Children after one of those friends I mentioned said it was terrible.
FF7 didn't need any closure. FF7 needed a slightly better written English script, and that was about it. All of the real plot holes got filled in pretty nicely by the Western/International versions. All I want to see is a direct port with a rewritten script, like the SNES FF games got on the GBA. I don't even want an actual remake at this point.
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Red wasn't suppose to live that long anyway :| Wasn't the conversion 16:48? He has 3 times the longevity, but he survives 5 times as long...
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He, and his subsequent scientists, would need a subject that would live longer than the typical 80 years of a human. At least that's how I always interpreted it.
Slight digression, but did anyone else laugh when -
Shinra (anticipantly): "Any ideas how long the research will take?"
Hojo: "...At least 120 years"
Brilliant.
Also, Gemini, how'd you end up with so many languages under your belt? Was this driven by your technical interests, or do you just enjoy speaking several tongues?
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FF7 is still FF7. However, the compilation isn't that bad.
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I think FF7 could have been left as it was but when considering the timeline and therefore the various spin-offs, the end of DoC was a bit ambiguous and warranted a continuation of the story. I've forgotten that post-credit movie because I played through that thing once when it came out, and I don't care enough to find it on Youtube. But I remember thinking it seeming like the start of something else.
It'd be nice if they released Before Crisis in English and not for mobile phones. But again, I don't care too much. Original is best.
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