Author Topic: Bring it on? (Read 28719 times)

secondadvent · « **Reply #25 on:** 2009-09-17 04:43:59 »

is it just me, or does your game start cloud with omnislash instead of braver? that seems kinda weird to me

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titeguy3 · « **Reply #26 on:** 2009-09-17 04:47:22 »

Quote from: secondadvent on 2009-09-17 04:43:59

is it just me, or does your game start cloud with omnislash instead of braver? that seems kinda weird to me .

EDIT: Holy ish!!! you're right! how'd that happen??? [fixes it]

secondadvent · « **Reply #27 on:** 2009-09-17 05:01:43 »

whats with the starting 3 megalixers? is it because they are not very common normally, or just to help you along the way, since there is little heal-all items? enemy away/lure is a nice little addition though, they take a while to obtain normally, and could help with farming/running through areas

@nfitc1, whenever you decide to pop in again

this is kinda off topic, but how much is known about the shop data and such, because i found what looks like all of the prices (assuming shops' items are in the field data, since i do not know anything about it, and am not seeing it here) for items/materia and such within the exe when looking for the item/magic menu data, and it is in a fairly easy to read way too, sans what i am assuming is more materia stuff (like the master materia sell multiplier). it is more than likely known, since it is essentially right out in the open, but i just wanted to know what was known

. and, from my count there are 32 (just a rough count in a quick pass through WM) items/magic total that can be used in the menu, so it could just be a chunk of data like that that needs to be found (like the stuff under the item menu names), though there is nothing that looks like the WM data, or even any bits of it, so it could be in a different format altogether

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titeguy3 · « **Reply #28 on:** 2009-09-17 05:12:24 »

OOOOOOOO I know what's up...

this is the kernel.bin i was testing on... sh*t... didn't mean to upload this...

hopefully i didn't delete the original...

Okay, now the file that should be uploaded has been uploaded.. Yeah i was fuxing with stuff to test the new version of wallmarket, so did a whole bunch of random stupid crap like rename "cure" to "kur" and stuff like that.

But yeah, I figured adding enemy away and enemy lure would be a nice thing to have at the start...

secondadvent · « **Reply #29 on:** 2009-09-17 05:20:22 »

yeah, i did a test with a kernel as well, but i made sure to put the changes onto a fresh kernel because i did not know what all i changed

. i also do the same with the scene, though i may just copy my current one and make changes to the copy while my main is taking a break until i find what i like

and you are probably going to hate me, but cure has a power of 99, based on what the patched kernel says

. i am assuming (since the names are not saved due to something with WM not saving the names to the patch) that you replaced wall with horology, since it is based off of the clock, a move that can have potential, though seems a little costly to me (not knowing how much the damage cap is)... sorry, just looking over your kernel and adding my two cents

meh... some of my magic is probably extremely strong now (which is pretty good, since enemies get that boost as well), and are cheaper as well (though kotr is much weaker, it now costs 155MP, to suit it's new damage... i did this weird damage to MP cost thingy to determine my ratio

), so magic is much more powerful, and physical attacks, mainly weapons, are going to be nerfed in mine, i can up it for you to look at if you want.

titeguy3 · « **Reply #30 on:** 2009-09-17 05:29:35 »

Quote from: secondadvent on 2009-09-17 05:20:22

yeah, i did a test with a kernel as well, but i made sure to put the changes onto a fresh kernel because i did not know what all i changed . i also do the same with the scene, though i may just copy my current one and make changes to the copy while my main is taking a break until i find what i like

and you are probably going to hate me, but cure has a power of 99, based on what the patched kernel says

Oh, it looks like WM didn't update properly when I reloaded the Kernel.bin...odd...

Okay, this time it's normal for sure!

secondadvent · « **Reply #31 on:** 2009-09-17 05:40:58 »

you not going for 6 hits on comet2?

titeguy3 · « **Reply #32 on:** 2009-09-17 05:47:47 »

it's four by default, isn't it?

secondadvent · « **Reply #33 on:** 2009-09-17 05:52:30 »

yeah, but 6 makes it have more room for power, and you could even keep the same total damage as the original by lowering the damage, and raising the hits, it would just make it so more enemies could be hit if targeting a group... that is if you set the power to 20 with six hits, because it does the same as four at a power of 30

. if you are going more towards a harder/more balanced original feel to the game, which i assume you are, then keeping the power the same could work, even with more attacks, though the overall power for most magics and such is usually overpowered or underpowered anyway

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titeguy3 · « **Reply #34 on:** 2009-09-17 05:54:46 »

Would the extra damage calculations appear if you changed it to six? Usually when i tinker with the multiple hits option, it *does* hit multiple times, but it only shows the damage for one. (i.e. 1000 needles + multiple hits 10 = attack that looks like 1000 damage but actually does 10000)

secondadvent · « **Reply #35 on:** 2009-09-17 05:58:33 »

from my count, it shows six hits, i can recheck if you'd like.

yep, it is six, but the sound quits while the damage is still happening for the last two comets, but that is likely an animation thing... the attacks all hit and show up perfectly fine. IIRC only highwind and comet2 can have their hits affected, the rest seem to not work correctly or freeze the game, and highwind can get up to 64 hits if i am remembering right, but that seems a little overkill to me

the animation data themselves is what holds the data for when the damage done will display, so you'd have to know what to edit in there, but i am not sure if anybody knows what to edit there

titeguy3 · « **Reply #36 on:** 2009-09-17 06:56:42 »

I'm sure *somebody* does. There appears to be a section about that in the wiki.

Good thing to know, though... I'll try tinkering with it and see what I decide to do...

nfitc1 · « **Reply #37 on:** 2009-09-17 13:34:05 »

OK, I'll join in the fun for the moment.

@secondadvent:
Regarding your question about menu data, I can definitely tell you that that data is NOT part of the KERNEL.BIN (you know this already). It is stored somewhere else and would have a different format. It wouldn't have things like animations, impact sounds, camera data, etc. so it would likely be much shorter. There is data for all items, but only some magics (eg, you can't use Sleepel or Fire in the menu, but that isn't stored in KERNEL.BIN) and they all likely have the same format. As far as I can tell there should really only be the following data:

Strength
Damage Calculation
Statuses to affect
HP/MP/Status healing
Single/Multiple Target
Sound to make when performing

That's as few as nine bytes, but it might be even less. I can't find it myself, but I've only looked at the data and seen what things do like the window.bin (might be in there, but I don't know what to look for) and such.

@everyone
I screwed up PrC by forgetting that .NET destroys all "handles" keywords when an object is removed from the form. Thus, when I put the AI box in the sizing panel it screwed it all up. Other than that, it should be working fine. I also just noticed that WM isn't updating the jumps like I thought it was. I'm looking at those right now. PrC should be a simple fix. WM should too, but we'll see...

secondadvent · « **Reply #38 on:** 2009-09-17 15:41:13 »

well, i doubt that four bytes would be for statuses alone, because of the fact that only the fury, sadness and death statuses can be active in the menu, so only one byte "should" be needed, and would be similar to the initial status section of the initial data, it only has 8 flags (assuming you didn't take out the other three bytes for statuses for being unable to be activated anyway), so the item/magic data could only use the first byte.

the damage calculation could be different as well, since only three are used for items, and the added cure formula, so a total of at least four calculations, though it would have been easier to keep the same format, so it could still be the same there. the rest would likely be the same as well, so if all of the stuff is there, and nothing was combined (like drop/steal rates in the scene.bin), then the minimum could be six bytes for everything.

actually, it seems that most of the items at least would have an easier time being coded in the field data, since stuff like tent and the save crystal would need to know when it could be used, and the source/limit stuff would at least have to have some checking for other things, because they are not handled like normal items.

i am not exactly sure where it would be, though i will have to check out the field data at some point (need to for some stuff anyway, though i am not sure if i will find anything useful for items), it could be integrated into the main game data and be extremely hard to find just looking for the normal data. i think i found the sort list for items though (not sure how it works, it is just pointers, all out of 320, so it includes all menu items, sans key items, at least so far), and i used the empty items as a sort of reference... the empty/dummy items are all set to be sorted to the end, because they have the highest values, so if you had them as items, they would end up at the bottom of the list

. not that important of data, but at least i found something that "could" be useful to some

course it may not be sort data, but it is pointing to something

nfitc1 · « **Reply #39 on:** 2009-09-17 15:59:46 »

Hmm, I suppose you're right about the tent and save crystal. I guess they're all in some global field data.

UPDATE: I'd thought I'd have WM and PrC sorted out by now (I almost do), but I just found a potentially disastrous error in the AI (again). At least this is a simple one that could be fixed in a matter of minutes. That'll be fixed within the next 24 hours and I'm going to change the enemy search results message to include the enemy name.
*sigh* And I thought I was so close.

secondadvent · « **Reply #40 on:** 2009-09-18 01:16:33 »

well, since you are on the search functions, there is a little issue with the searching of attacks by index; it does bring up the scenes and name of the attack, but if there is more than one result found (ex. 110h for the MP's machine gun), it will repeatedly display the name of the attack like so:

Machine GunMachine Gun

and yeah, having the search results for the enemy acting the same as the attack search would be wonderful (searching for MP or grunt for example brings up enemies like jumping and mighty grunt). it was going to be one of the things i suggested, but you decided to do it before i got a chance

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nfitc1 · « **Reply #41 on:** 2009-09-18 13:41:42 »

Quote from: secondadvent on 2009-09-18 01:16:33

and yeah, having the search results for the enemy acting the same as the attack search would be wonderful (searching for MP or grunt for example brings up enemies like jumping and mighty grunt). it was going to be one of the things i suggested, but you decided to do it before i got a chance .

Better? And no, it doesn't take any additional time. I also got rid of the repeat Attack Names when searching for index. It's amazing what two lines here and there do sometimes.

Admittedly, this is the way it should have always looked.

secondadvent · « **Reply #42 on:** 2009-09-18 22:36:28 »

that is so much better

. now we'll be able to finally see where i need to go to change a specific enemy.

edit and off topic:
ugh... i'd much rather go through eligor's AI code and do a complete rewrite five times, each being done differently, than have to read and give a review of my team's rough drafts in my english class -_-. i thought the first i had to do was bad, and the second looks like a little kid wrote it, due to the fact that it was in one massive paragraph rather than several, and there was no proofreading of any kind (the person used Word to write it, and at the end of every line, instead of just continuing to write, they pressed enter, which causes the first letter of the line to be auto capitalized). i am actually afraid to continue reading it, because i cannot follow it at all >_<.

i just read the entire essay and i think... i think my eyes are bleeding X_x. seriously, i think that the person never had any english classes of any kind, just by how horrible the writing was... i may not capitalize or write well here, but this is a board, and i STILL end up writing 100 times better than that person did

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nfitc1 · « **Reply #43 on:** 2009-09-19 03:47:25 »

Quote from: secondadvent on 2009-09-18 22:36:28

edit and off topic:
ugh... i'd much rather go through eligor's AI code and do a complete rewrite five times, each being done differently, than have to read and give a review of my team's rough drafts in my english class -_-. i thought the first i had to do was bad, and the second looks like a little kid wrote it, due to the fact that it was in one massive paragraph rather than several, and there was no proofreading of any kind (the person used Word to write it, and at the end of every line, instead of just continuing to write, they pressed enter, which causes the first letter of the line to be auto capitalized). i am actually afraid to continue reading it, because i cannot follow it at all >_<.

i just read the entire essay and i think... i think my eyes are bleeding X_x. seriously, i think that the person never had any english classes of any kind, just by how horrible the writing was... i may not capitalize or write well here, but this is a board, and i STILL end up writing 100 times better than that person did .

Heh. I know what you mean. My wife's an English teacher and she gets some DOOZYS of essays from COLLEGE STUDENTS! Too many of them are used to texting on their phones (a habit I refuse to take part in) and writing in short-hand on boards like this that they forget basic grammar and spelling rules. Best not to go any further than that or I'll end up posting three times about it because one post has too few allowed characters.

On topic:
It's good that this in the General board, things can get a bit off-topic once and a while, but this has gone on enough. It's time to get back to where this originally was. The PrC and WM bugs have been found and addressed. I'm going to release newer (hopefully working) version in the morning (in less than 10 hours from now, I hope) and we can get back to enemy challenges. Any further discussions of bugs/feature requests need to go in their respective topics.

secondadvent · « **Reply #44 on:** 2009-09-19 04:14:51 »

yeah, it was going a good bit off topic (me as usual

). anyway, can we discuss some ideas for enemies (like ask you what you think would be good to add, and post some of our progress), or is it strictly for upping the files and seeing what you thought of them?

I do not have anything specifically planned for air buster yet, but he will be much harder than GS was, mainly due to the fact that there are three party members, and that there were shops available, so all three can have materia, on top of limitless potions and ethers (mono drive ftw

). he will not be insanely hard (saving that for my "harder" version in the future

), but he will be a very difficult battle. GS is actually a pushover, even with the new stats... he just takes a little bit of time. i beat GS at around level 4, but i got lucky on ether drops in the few battles i fought on the way (just ran to the save point, and then fought GS, no extra battles involved), so i had plenty of MP for thunder. i still think the first area is too weak for most of the enemies, so i could skimp more on their defenses (they have decent hp, and def doesn't matter as much for them since the overall damage is low anyway), and raise their attacks, but mono drive does a good bit of magic damage, and sweeper is pretty strong as it is (though it could use more HP to balance the thunder weakness).

try it out when you have time (probably not right now

), and lemme know what you think... it only took me about half an hour to do everything in the reactor and get to the train (skipped the MP battles with solo cloud, because i had no items, little HP, and no MP

), so i do not know how the ambush battle would be, it could be fairly deadly

. so, when you do get time to test it, even doing the entire reactor will not take as long as a very difficult battle could, very difficult as in one of my late game enemies, once i get that far

.

nfitc1 · « **Reply #45 on:** 2009-09-21 18:00:12 »

Enemy ideas are welcome. As are submissions.

Now I am officially taking submissions (since both are mostly working). I'll do my best to get them done in a timely manner.

Let me know what enemy I'm looking for, what restrictions you want to impose, and email me the .PrC/.WM changes file(s) and a save file close to it or tell me which of Eslava's savegames to use. It's a great compilation anyway and every FFVIIPC user should have it!

@secondadvent: Airbuster was always really wimpy so any improvement would be welcome. If Cloud had Braver and did it as his back was turned that almost always knocked off half his HP. Maybe add a counter when he takes "back-attack damage" either healing himself or draining life from one of the players. That wouldn't make a lot of sense coming from a machine, though. So maybe just a repair/retaliate.

titeguy3 · « **Reply #46 on:** 2009-09-21 18:42:13 »

Alright, so submissions are on?

I've got four challenges, all of which have been compiled into a single save file, they're none too difficult, but they're new and fun:

1) Turks at Midgar
Conditions: No Items, free to arrange Materia/Equipment
2) Ultima Weapon
Conditions: No Items, free to arrange Materia/Equipment
3) Last Boss
Conditions: No Items, free to arrange Materia/Equipment, KotR has been trashed
4) Ruby Weapon
Conditions: Must use Cloud w/ Buster Sword, start with Limit Break, use W-magic + Remove to single out Cloud at beginning of match, Items allowed, free to arrange Materia/Armor+Accessory

Links:
Kernel Patch
Script Patch
Save File

nfitc1 · « **Reply #47 on:** 2009-09-22 03:06:31 »

titeguy3, I accept your challenge. No items is mean though.

It seems obvious to me that you didn't get your text changed either. Your time damage attack (or whatever you call it) is still reading "Wall" in my text.

Why does it only work for me?

secondadvent · « **Reply #48 on:** 2009-09-22 06:06:12 »

because you are special

. nah, you just know more about it than we do... and it could be a bug with checking against an unmodded kernel, rather than the previously loaded kernel (which i was able to create a successful patch from, and got the error you had gotten, though it patched fine by the looks of it). probably should have gone in WM's thread, but i am here, so meh >_>.

i think i will re-re-re-redo my reactor, since being able to just go through with little hassle is just too simple (level 4 at GS, 5 by the time i reached the train), even though i had gotten a free ether on my way down (so a total of three since i doubled the ethers you start with, since they heal 40 now). GS definitely needs higher attack, which i could get by skimping on it's mdef some (i set a limit to the modifiers and base stats, so they cannot get too strong for the area, but sweeper and GS get a higher amount because they are special), because it isn't like it really needs a whole lot of defense at the start, though lightning still hurts a good bit.

grunts and mono drives are probably the strongest normal enemies (sweeper is not a normal one

), and the double grunt, triple mono drive battle (mono drives having a 1/3 chance of using fire, which will do 60-100+ damage, depending on it's level, and they love to target barret... the only way for them NOT to target barret is if cloud, or both are in the back row, the second case would make it a 50/50 spread), which can quickly kill you if you do not get rid of the mono drives, or outlast their MP (can use fire 1-3 times if you are between level 2 and 5, over 5 makes the MP much higher), and the grunts will be doing plenty of damage as well, doing between 34-48 base with beam gun, and 46-64 with hand claw, and the fact that you will probably not level up past 6 means that they will be doing plenty of damage to you, fairly quickly to boot.

i think i need to talk less about what they can do now, and get to making them better

.

titeguy3 · « **Reply #49 on:** 2009-09-22 06:50:02 »

Quote from: NFITC1 on 2009-09-22 03:06:31

titeguy3, I accept your challenge. No items is mean though.

It seems obvious to me that you didn't get your text changed either. Your time damage attack (or whatever you call it) is still reading "Wall" in my text. Why does it only work for me?

Grr..the text didn't update? It's supposed to be called "Horology"... I'm absolutely certain that I hit yes for include text changes...my guess is that it compared the new kernel2.bin with the new kernel2.bin, causing no changes...

Oh, and I'm a fan of No-Item challenges since GarlandTheGreat demonstrated that anything can be done with the proper items (Lv1 Tifa vs Ruby Weapon or something, for example)

They're not so hard that you'll need to megalixer yourself every turn, the only ones you might wish you had items for would be sephiroth and ultimate...and magic hammer is a friend.