[FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods and Modding Framework-The Reunion [R06f]

[DLPB_]

People would rather discuss an enemy with a piddly move than this

Original
{YUFFIE}
“Are you waiting for {CLOUD}?”{NEW}
“He's flying right now, so you can't get him.”{NEW}
“Were you going to force me
   into the submarine right now?”{NEW}
“Quit it!
   If you want to go, then just leave me behind.”{NEW}
“…ooooooh.
   What're you talking about? I…”

[Ragna]

Is Barret's name open to debate?
I ask because I remember reading somewhere in a japanese book (not sure if it was the Ultimania or some similar official material)
that his name is intended to be 'Bullet' from バレット, but was explicitly changed for the US release to Barret for some reason.

Indeed, I think that either 'Barret' nor 'Barrett' match the kana, but 'Bullet' or 'Barett' does.

Maybe, it could be interpeted as Barett "Bullet" Wallace.

PS: As a side note, Moguri is correct indeed, and was used too for the Spanish official translations since FF8.
I can understand American/English people confused by that, though. But is optional anyway.

[DLPB_]

I have seen this... and it was discounted because of the overwhelming use of the kana for Barrett...

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%B7%E3%83%89%E3%83%BB%E3%83%90%E3%83%AC%E3%83%83%E3%83%88




 There are also two other reasons:

1. The Official Establishment File shows Barett (one R)
2. There is a major US firearms company called Barrett, and I am of the opinion that this is the origin.

Taken together, there is no real evidence of Bullet. It's more likely that Barrett is correct.

[luksy]

IIRC bullet appeared in a very early preview but it's been Barrett or similar every other time.

[Ragna]

I have seen this... and it was discounted because of the overwhelming use of the kana for Barrett...

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%B7%E3%83%89%E3%83%BB%E3%83%90%E3%83%AC%E3%83%83%E3%83%88




 There are also two other reasons:

1. The Official Establishment File shows Barett (one R)
2. There is a US firearms company called Barrett, and I am of the opinion that this is the origin.

Taken together, there is no real evidence of Bullet. It's more likely that Barrett is correct.

Well, now that I think about this, it is impossible (at least without context?) to differentiate Barrett from Barett or Bullet from the kana (from a japanese point of view), so that might explain why all could be somehow "correct".
But the second point you claim is just your opinion without much or any evidence either. Could somehow be considered personal bias (?).

*sigh* Wish I could find again the official material from where I found that info.

IIRC bullet appeared in a very early preview but it's been Barrett or similar every other time.

What do you mean? Was there actually a US preview of the game with Bullet? Now, IIRC, wasn't there actually something equal or similar inside the debug fields indeed?

[DLPB_]

I always went into the origin of names and, often, you will find some huge possible influence.  The surname "Barrett" is massively popular (think Syd Barrett, for one), and then there's the major firearm company.  On top of that you have the Official Establishment file...

When you put all that together, and you have to make a choice, which do you go for?  I went for "Barrett".

As for the debug screens, they are in a very very sorry state.  Aerith is "Earith", for example.

[White Wind]

No but seriously.. in the French version, look at what kind of easter eggs we were greeted with....







Now just imagine the rest of the French text being based on the poor English version, job done by several teams which certainly never translated anything to French before, FF VII being the first FF ever to be "translated" to that language.
That's it, 40% of the time you don't understand a fuck x)

[DLPB_]

Poor.  Very poor.

[Covarr]

Spanish version was also quite clearly translated by people who didn't speak Spanish, but had an English-Spanish dictionary. Nothing like seeing the player's party referred to as a fiesta (party as in birthday party).

[Ragna]

I've found where I saw it so long ago (sorry, I don't have access to it anymore):
ファイナルファンタジー7 解体真書 ザ・コンプリート [1997/11]
ファイナルファンタジーVII 解体真書 ザ・コンプリート [2000/7/31]

As you can see, it was made by the same people who made the Official Establishment File, but if I remember correctly it had way much more content than that, and was published a bit later in November instead of January 25th.
ファイナルファンタジーVII Official Establishment File [1997/1]

As for the debug screens, they are in a very very sorry state.  Aerith is "Earith", for example.

Well, actually, IT IS "Earith", but I don't know if that was the intended name.
Maybe as a connection to "Earth"? But "Earth" is "アース", so... who knows?
I don't remember reading about it.

No but seriously.. in the French version, look at what kind of easter eggs we were greeted with....

Wow, I never saw that version. Is it like that all the time?
I guess the French version was the worst? So awful. Even worse than the Spanish one.
Terrifying! How could French people decipher it?!

[Sega Chief]

I'd love to play a literally translated version of the Spanish game; some of the mistakes I read about were solid gold: 'Please form a political party of three'

[luksy]

It's not impossible that it's Bullet, just highly unlikely as 99% of the time it's been spelt Barrett.

What do you mean? Was there actually a US preview of the game with Bullet?

I think it was in a preview in a US magazine.

[Ragna]

'Please form a political party of three'

Really? I don't remember that but it wouldn't surprise me, lol.

It's not impossible that it's Bullet, just highly unlikely as 99% of the time it's been spelt Barrett.

I think it was in a preview in a US magazine.

You mean Barret's name has been most of the time spelt Barrett?
I've almost always seen Barett from japanese material except that other comment, though.
And if you mean the kana is mostly used for Barrett... its kana can be seen as Bullet too, random examples: Bullet, Bullet-time

[White Wind]

Spanish version was also quite clearly translated by people who didn't speak Spanish, but had an English-Spanish dictionary. Nothing like seeing the player's party referred to as a fiesta (party as in birthday party).

omg xD Your fiesta's doing great today ?? xD

Wow, I never saw that version. Is it like that all the time?
I guess the French version was the worst? So awful. Even worse than the Spanish one.
Terrifying! How could French people decipher it?!

Not all the time, those are some of the best wtf bits. But yeah, sometimes you get some à&à'éèi! stupid gibberish, or the names of locations, or objects in dialogue suddenly change.
Or when Cloud fell through the church roof, the sentence he hears in his head, that not long ago that would only have scratched his knees... in French we had something like : Before, you would have gotten rid of it with your knees like that
Huh? Like what? Why my knees?
Yeah a real good lot of sentences like this one.

Or when you're back to Junon and that the Sister Ray cannon has been moved to Midgar, Barrett says : Maybe it's just how I feel... but didn't we miss something ?
Then yeah, you explore Junon all over again, you backtrack to search for the thing you have missed along the way, and then 10 years later you realise he was talking about the cannon.

[luksy]

You mean Barret's name has been most of the time spelt Barrett?

IIRC as far as it shows up in Japanese documentation (establishment file, ultimania etc.), yes. I suppose you could make the argument that it was consistently misspelled, but again I don't think it's very likely.

[Ragna]

IIRC as far as it shows up in Japanese documentation (establishment file, ultimania etc.), yes. I suppose you could make the argument that it was consistently misspelled, but again I don't think it's very likely.

I see Barret's entry in here has been changed from green to blue...
I am in no way trying to troll you or say it's bad or completely bad, but I think some more research could be done according to what I posted before instead of just making assumptions,
and I think saying that his name has always been shown as Barrett is (probably) a lie since all japanese material refers to him as Barett from the game's instruction booklet to at least the latest material.

I've found where I saw it so long ago (sorry, I don't have access to it anymore):
ファイナルファンタジー7 解体真書 ザ・コンプリート [1997/11]
ファイナルファンタジーVII 解体真書 ザ・コンプリート [2000/7/31]

As you can see, it was made by the same people who made the Official Establishment File, but if I remember correctly it had way much more content than that, and was published a bit later in November instead of January 25th.
ファイナルファンタジーVII Official Establishment File [1997/1]

If someone can find some scans of that on Barret's profile and translate its texts, we could find what I was talking about.
I think it was nearly at the beginning, in one of the first pages. I've been searching for scans but haven't found any.

[DLPB_]

I've changed it to blue because I meant to do it a while back (it was green because of the spelling "Barrett" as opposed to the Official Establishment File). But that's just to make sure this topic doesn't come up again after today... if we find some evidence that makes "Bullet" as likely, I'll change to green again.  But the only thing that's going to change Barrett in the translation is word from the writers.  Sometimes it just comes down to what is more likely and making an educated guess. 

The policy on a conflict, where both have equal weight, is to stick with the original.  It's what I had to do with "Seto", even though "Seth / Set"  is as likely... or maybe even more so.

[luksy]

and I think saying that his name has always been shown as Barrett is (probably) a lie since all japanese material refers to him as Barett from the game's instruction booklet to at least the latest material.If someone can find some scans of that on Barret's profile and translate its texts, we could find what I was talking about.

Sorry I assumed we were still talking about Bullet / Barrett. As far as Barett / Barret / Barrett  is concerned you're right, there's less consistency, the manual and the establishment file have it as Barett, and Ultimania as Barret.

On the assumption that it isn't "Bullet", we've gone with Barrett - it's how the real-world name is usually spelt, and might be a reference to the firearms company, but I'm ok with any variation on that, I don't think it's very important, especially considering it's a PC name that can be changed by the player. Something like "Bullet" however would be a change worth looking into if there were more evidence to support it.

[DLPB_]

The problem with Ultimania has always been that it's a good source for story and some of what the writers say, but not so good with names.  Ultimania largely uses English canon names, even when blatantly incorrect (like Mideel).

So it's been a constant battle to look at as many sources and influences as possible and then make a decision.

[Ragna]

if we find some evidence that makes "Bullet" as likely, I'll change to green again.
But the only thing that's going to change Barrett in the translation is word from the writers.

Well, to be clear, I was not suggesting actually changing his name, just to make some research on the matter I pointed to:
"His name is supposed to be Bullet and they explicitly changed it for the US release." coming from that official japanese material.
And I don't think the director, writer, or character designer are going to talk about it because there's no reason to do so unless someone foreign asks them.

Sometimes it just comes down to what is more likely and making an educated guess. 
The policy on a conflict, where both have equal weight, is to stick with the original.  It's what I had to do with "Seto", even though "Seth / Set"  is as likely... or maybe even more so.

Well, actually I think Seto is OK, if you consider the theme around that race's names, examples: Seto, Nanaki, Dine... (yeah, not many possible examples, lol) but there's no way to know.

On the assumption that it isn't "Bullet", we've gone with Barrett - it's how the real-world name is usually spelt, and might be a reference to the firearms company, but I'm ok with any variation on that, I don't think it's very important, especially considering it's a PC name that can be changed by the player. Something like "Bullet" however would be a change worth looking into if there were more evidence to support it.

Actually that's a good assumption if you haven't seen what I mentioned, though.
Anyway, what if it was intended to be "Bullet" and then after the US release they scrapped that idea?
Well, I hope we can find a scan from that book to find what I was talking about.

Ultimania largely uses English canon names, even when blatantly incorrect (like Mideel).

Yeah, I think at that time (2005, IIRC) was when they began using the bad US release names.

Anyway, isn't Earith more "accurate", too, including that supposed reference to Earth?
Although earth is "アース" in japanese, so maybe it was English->Japanese->English as usual.
I can imagine what some people would say about this, considering their hate to Aerith instead of Aeris too... lol.

This "names origins" theme is actually interesting to me, aside of the use for translation/localization.

[DLPB_]

  The OEF gives Aerith and the kana gives the "Air" sound, not "Ear".  The spelling of kana may come out as EA, but the sound does not.  "Aerial" in kana is the same, it starts EA. Also, the spelling was corrected from the original writers who were unhappy with Aeris, so there's a very good chance the spelling is now as intended.

[luksy]

Actually that's a good assumption if you haven't seen what I mentioned, though.
Anyway, what if it was intended to be "Bullet" and then after the US release they scrapped that idea?

As mentioned, we've already considered Bullet and decided that it's not very likely, given that it would be a particularly awful spelling error that would have to have been vetted multiple times by multiple people prior to the Japanese release. As I'm sure you've noticed I'm hesitant to just flat out assert that Bar(r)et(t) is 100% the name they wanted, but most of the evidence supports it.

[Ragna]

  The OEF gives Aerith and the kana gives the "Air" sound, not "Ear".  The spelling of kana may come out as EA, but the sound does not.  "Aerial" in kana is the same, it starts EA. Also, the spelling was corrected from the original writers who were unhappy with Aeris, so there's a very good chance the spelling is now as intended.

Wasn't she called Earis(u) in (at least) Crisis Core's japanese voiced dialogues? I remember that. It's not voiced AE but EA.

[DLPB_]

The Japanese don't have the same range of sounds as we do. Their closest sound has to use "su" for "th" among other things.  In English (which is where the name originates), the sound is "air-ith". The kana is an "air" sound, like with "aerial". Honeywood states that the name came from air + earth.  I am not so sure about that (the source we have from the writers is that it comes from an anagram of Earth alone), but certainly the kana sound is "air".

[DLPB_]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Localization_of_Square_Enix_video_games#Changes

Changes

When translating its video games, Square Enix tries to take into account the cultural differences between Japan and western territories. This sometimes involves rewriting dialogue or altering graphics, animations, and sounds. For instance, in Chocobo Racing, visual references to the Japanese folk heroes Momotarō and Kiji were changed to depict Hansel and Gretel, since the game was designed mainly for children, and Hansel and Gretel are better known in the west than Momotarō and Kiji.[2] According to Honeywood, trying to explain to the original development teams why some changes are needed can range from "frustrating to downright hilarious". Generally, older development teams trust the translators with making changes while newer teams can be more reluctant, though they usually build up trust gradually.[2] The localization team for The World Ends with You chose to preserve the Japanese elements to ensure the game's cultural aspect remained intact.[4]

You see, the writers themselves are picky about maintaining their culture. So they should be.  That's why I am


I think Honeywood is the kind of localizer that goes too far...  The vibe I get is that anything is game for him as long as the Western audience is happy.  I don't share that philosophy.  To me, the original writers are more important, and a compromise should be reached. But, as far as I am concerned, when it comes to names, the localizer has absolutely no say in the matter.  The permission must be given.

If Rowling is okay with a Japanese publisher changing Harry Potter to "Hari Amato" , so be it. But if she isn't, then tough luck.  I wouldn't want a name I have made changing in some other language unless there was a very good reason and unless my permission had been sought.

Honeywood has no right to be "frustrated", he is not the writer.