Author Topic: Aeris vs Aerith.  (Read 29873 times)

Chris_Chev

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Aeris vs Aerith.
« on: 2013-07-29 03:45:48 »
I understand that this has more than likely been done to death, but whatever.  How do you say her name?  I'm partial to Aeris, simply because that is how I grew up pronouncing it, and Aerith just sounds unnatural to me.  Kinda sounds like you have a lisp.

Kaldarasha

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Re: Aeris vs Aerith.
« Reply #1 on: 2013-07-29 03:50:17 »
Aerith.
Aeris sounds to me like Aegis.

Timu Sumisu

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Re: Aeris vs Aerith.
« Reply #2 on: 2013-07-29 10:43:47 »
Maybe i'm old, grumpy, and don't like things that're different, but i was raised on the ol' ps1 version, and Aeris seems rather normal to me. Additionally Aerith sounds like you're pronouncing it with a lisp. Also its pronounced aeris in japanese.

On the other hand... canon.

Vgr

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Re: Aeris vs Aerith.
« Reply #3 on: 2013-07-29 14:17:54 »
Aerith. That's how it is in Japanese (Can someone confirm this? Not 100% sure). From what I understood, Aerith was changed to Aeris to keep the same pronunciation as the Japanese. Looking at the debug rooms, she's named Earith (which is close enough to Earth), so my guess is that's where it came from. Earth, Earith, Aerith, Aeris. Then again it's all up to personal preference. I prefer the original Japanese pronunciation, some prefer the original English one.

nfitc1

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Re: Aeris vs Aerith.
« Reply #4 on: 2013-07-29 14:33:39 »
The final concept art had "Earith" spelled in English on the final draft.

luksy

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Re: Aeris vs Aerith.
« Reply #5 on: 2013-07-29 14:48:34 »
It's whatever you want it to be, seeing as you can set the names. Having said that, Aerith is one of the few names Square has refused to retcon in later media to match the original English translation (except FFT on PS1 but that was awful translation-wise) so I guess they feel it's important.

DLPB_

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Re: Aeris vs Aerith.
« Reply #6 on: 2013-07-29 14:58:52 »
The correct spelling and pronunciation is Aerith (Air-ith), with the th.  I prefer Aeris (it sounds much better than Aerith), but that's how it is.  According to the writers, the name was chosen as a near anagram of the English word "Earth" (stated in Ultimania). Japanese has no kana for "th", so they Japanese use su.  For example, death in kana is "Desu" when representing the English word, and Behemoth is Behiimosu (ベヒーモス). 

The reason Aerith ends up in some places as Earith is because the kana uses e then a, but if you look at Japanese kana for Aerial, you see the sound is "aer" and not "ear".  Kana is all about sound.  The person who converted to "Earith" actually guessed right that the su was th, but Baskett did not.

Aerith
エ ア リ ス 
E A RI SU

The problem with kana is that you often need the writers to tell you the spelling they desired (as you can see above there are numerous possibilities otherwise like Aerlith aerlis aeris aerith aerisu aelisu).  They did do this with some of the names but Baskett obviously never got a copy of the Official Establishment File.  In that, it lists Aerith, Leno and Yrena (as opposed to Aeris, Reno and Elena).   Aerith is the only spelling they later corrected, probably because the writers thought this was one mistake too many.  And, because we now know that the word was taken from the English word Earth (and the fact Ultimania explains the spelling) we know how it is supposed to look and sound.

Part of my problem with the retranslation project is that those not listed in OEF can also have other spellings and meanings.  The main one I am not sure about is Seto.  Seto セト (Seto) can be Set.. セト(Set)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_%28mythology%29

And there is absolutely no way to know unless a writer tells you what they meant.  Converting to kana is simple.   Converting back to the original word is sometimes impossible.  Japanese use the same symbols to represent l and r, use the same symbol for th , su and s, to name some of the issues.  Sound cannot accurately represent spellings.  And so now you know why Aerith ended up Aeris and Earith.

Just to hammer home my point... take Reno.  The kana is simple:

レノ
RE NO

But the name is actually Leno (assuming the OEF is correct lmao).. because レ can be Le or Re.   Only a document telling the localiser what is intended can fix that. The reason Leno was used is likely because it means "pimp/seducer" in Latin, and contrasts to the meaning of "Rude" which is likely taken directly from the English word itself.  Often in the translation project, meaning and mythology have had to be the guide that we use when deciding spellings, other times documentation by the writers, and failing that, no change is allowed.
« Last Edit: 2013-07-29 16:06:04 by DLPB »

xLostWingx

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Re: Aeris vs Aerith.
« Reply #7 on: 2013-07-29 17:22:30 »
Always Aeris (like Aries).  Fortunately so does everyone else I've encountered IRL - which is good cause I'd kick them in the shins if they walked up to me and said Ear-Rith.

I also say Tiff-a, not Teef-a.  Yuff-ee, not You-fee.  Are there other names or things in VII that have preferential proununciations? 

Oh...I have heard some crazy ones for Tidus lol
« Last Edit: 2013-07-29 17:25:33 by xLostWingx »

Covarr

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Re: Aeris vs Aerith.
« Reply #8 on: 2013-07-29 17:35:27 »
I try to spell and pronounce everything according to the current official US canon. Reno may not technically be an accurate localization, but it's his official name in the west. If S-E ever decides to correct it, then I'll call him Leno.

Kaldarasha

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Re: Aeris vs Aerith.
« Reply #9 on: 2013-07-29 17:41:56 »
Tifa... in German her name sounds similar to 'tiefer', which means 'deeper'.  And this for a girl with really huge *eyes* and a skimpy mini skirt ...

JBedford128

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Re: Aeris vs Aerith.
« Reply #10 on: 2013-07-29 19:24:35 »
I switch between Aeris and Aerith all the time. And I pronounce things the way I choose to pronounce them, and only if I hear the correct pronunciation enough times will that even start to change.

Cl[ow]d
Tiff-fuh
Barret: (like Carrot, but with a B, or barreL with a T) -- i remember a forum a long time ago where it was established that those from the US generally pronounce it Bear-rit, from UK pronounce it as I do, and the French... I think it was "bar-ray")
Air-riss
Red-Fur-teen / Nan-nak-kee
Yuff-fee
Vinss-sʊnt
Sid
Cat-Siff

And I pronounce Reno's name "Ren-no", Nibelheim as "Nigh-bull-hIm" (like Hyne, but m instead of n), and Dio as "Dee-yo".

I used to pronounce Sephiroth as "Sef-royf", and Shinra as "Shryn-nar"-- but clearly my brothers couldn't read, their pronunciation carried over to me, and in-turn i always mis-read it until some point where I must have learnt to read.

And I also pronounce it "Ses-sʊl", "Tie-dʊs",  and "Zid-dan". I am unsure whether I pronounce Vaan as "Van" or "Varn", but I used to do the former more frequently.

xLostWingx

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Re: Aeris vs Aerith.
« Reply #11 on: 2013-07-30 00:03:20 »
I switch...

I don't know whether to laugh, be confused, or give you a high five lol.  I think all of them would be appropriate.

Covarr

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Re: Aeris vs Aerith.
« Reply #12 on: 2013-07-30 16:05:34 »
Cat-Siff
Cait Sith is the only character I consistently mispronounce. Technically it should be "ket shee", but I always pronounce it "Kate Sith". IDGAF.

Template

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Re: Aeris vs Aerith.
« Reply #13 on: 2013-07-30 16:26:07 »
IDGAF.

 :o LMFAO!!!

I am not consistant about Aeris/Aerith; I think I switch depending on whose thread I'm posting on. If it's my own I'm totally unable to decide anymore, and in day to day conversations with people I would probably not be willing to admit having ever considered this issue.   

dkma841

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Re: Aeris vs Aerith.
« Reply #14 on: 2013-07-30 16:56:29 »
I already got used to Aerith by now and im sticking to it

xLostWingx

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Re: Aeris vs Aerith.
« Reply #15 on: 2013-07-31 15:34:37 »
Cait Sith is the only character I consistently mispronounce. Technically it should be "ket shee", but I always pronounce it "Kate Sith". IDGAF.

I didn't know this was even a point of contention!  That atrocity's name will always be "Kate Sith" for me too.  Though usually in my saves he gets named "Kitty Sith" or "Cait Shit"

Kaldarasha

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Re: Aeris vs Aerith.
« Reply #16 on: 2013-07-31 15:43:34 »
'Ket Shee'? So he is no Sith Lord? The truth can be so hard...  :'(

Cleanshooter

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Re: Aeris vs Aerith.
« Reply #17 on: 2013-08-13 21:20:14 »
You need to remember that in Japanese there really isn't a "th" sound.... so personally I like Aeris better.

DLPB_

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Re: Aeris vs Aerith.
« Reply #18 on: 2013-08-13 21:55:38 »
You need to remember that in Japanese there really isn't a "th" sound.... so personally I like Aeris better.

That doesn't change the fact that they wanted the th there.  The th sound and spelling do not exist in kana, so they do their best to approximate it for a Japanese audience.  When localisers localise back to English, they should localise it with the th (which they now do), because the spelling and sound exist for English, which is where the name is derived from in the first place.

Your username "Cleanshooter" is cleanshooter.  It is what it is.  When it goes to Japan and back, without knowing what it was originally, it may end up "Creanchuter".  Even the Japanese people wouldn't know for sure what was intended, but when it came back to English, you'd have the full array of letters and sounds, to correctly translate it.  You wouldn't want it coming back wrong.  Saying that, most people (I think it's safe to say), including me, prefer Aeris.

At the end of the day, it is the responsibility and job of the writers to say what they are happy with being changed, and to communicate this to the localising team (and communicate what they intend).  This wasn't done with FF7, and the writers have obviously refused to let the "Aeris" mistake slide, like most of the others.
« Last Edit: 2013-08-13 22:01:57 by DLPB »

BloodShot

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Re: Aeris vs Aerith.
« Reply #19 on: 2013-08-14 02:45:48 »
I prefer aeris myself, though I don't mind saying aerith.

What annoys me though, is Mako.

I like saying "May-ko" a lot better then "Mah-ko"

To me, "May-ko" sounds much more natural around other english dialogue, while when they say "Mah-ko" it sounds to me like they are using a Japanese word.

Vgr

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Re: Aeris vs Aerith.
« Reply #20 on: 2013-08-14 03:39:46 »
I have a tendency to pronounce Aerith as Aeris (a cross between the French and English th sounding, I'd say), but I don't like Aeris being typed out like that. Yet again personal preferences eh.

xLostWingx

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Re: Aeris vs Aerith.
« Reply #21 on: 2013-08-14 05:51:19 »
This is a good thread.  May-Ko absolutely.

On a related issue:  Given my profession, it's extraordinarily interesting to me to observe the various positions of spectrumy people regarding "Correctness" versus "Resistance to Change".  You all know who you are  ;) I certainly do.  On these forums it seems "Correctness" actually wins out over the "Resistance to Change" which is something that I am rather surprised about (I'm thinking some of you Aspys are actually HFAs).  But then again, some diagnostic systems are trying to eliminate these distinctions - which I think is a mistake.  And then there is always massive variability regarding professional judgement.  Damned inexact sciences.  And semantics could also be responsible.  Of course I mean no offense to anyone whatsoever - just in case anyone did feel offended in any way.  Sociological Lingustics are also probably at play here.  Such a thought provoking thread...to me at least.

Anyway...there are a few pronunciations I've been able to change from the way I initially pronounced them.  I used to say "Ko-Ko-Bo" but now I am fine with saying "Cho-ko-bo".  Anyone else have any good ones?
« Last Edit: 2013-08-14 05:54:33 by xLostWingx »

Cleanshooter

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Re: Aeris vs Aerith.
« Reply #22 on: 2013-08-14 13:56:40 »
That doesn't change the fact that they wanted the th there.  The th sound and spelling do not exist in kana, so they do their best to approximate it for a Japanese audience.

Please site proof that they wanted the 'th' sound.  I find it hard to believe that they wanted a sound that is uncommon in their language.  It doesn't matter if you use Aeris or Aerith it still gets spelled out as エアリス or Earisu it doesn't matter if you use Aeris or Aerith the translation remains the same (check google translator yo!).  If your proof is that they have changed it in later translations is say ehhhh... The new translators probably didn't work with the original writers anyway.

At the end of the day I will always say Aeris and (May-ko) I agree Mah-ko sounds lame  :-D

DLPB_

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Re: Aeris vs Aerith.
« Reply #23 on: 2013-08-14 14:26:28 »
 I can prove that the th is there.  It is there because, as the writers state in Ultimania (page 14 if I am not mistaken), the word Aerith comes from the English word Earth.  Unless you want to refer to earth also without a th, then there is a double standard.  There is no s there.  No s at all.  I understand why people want to hang on to any hope of it being Aeris spelling, or sound, but it simply isn't.  It's Aerith.  And even without the fact the writers have publicly stated what they intended, the fact is ALL FF's after 7 have used Aerith. 

Aeris is wrong.  The writers... are right.  You can choose to ignore them, and the th, but it doesn't make it right  :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVRevou_L7M


« Last Edit: 2013-08-14 14:54:09 by DLPB »

Captain Epic

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Re: Aeris vs Aerith.
« Reply #24 on: 2013-08-14 15:04:33 »
Please site proof that they wanted the 'th' sound.  I find it hard to believe that they wanted a sound that is uncommon in their language.  It doesn't matter if you use Aeris or Aerith it still gets spelled out as エアリス or Earisu it doesn't matter if you use Aeris or Aerith the translation remains the same (check google translator yo!).  If your proof is that they have changed it in later translations is say ehhhh... The new translators probably didn't work with the original writers anyway.

At the end of the day I will always say Aeris and (May-ko) I agree Mah-ko sounds lame  :-D

Sounds like you're not familiar with how loanwords work in Japanese

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fclasweb.clas.wayne.edu%2FMultimedia%2Flanguages%2Ffiles%2FJapaneseLoanWords.pdf&ei=MI8LUsarNqml0wXAxYGYAw&usg=AFQjCNGhVzZ_lshHcW8ppfsSXWqsg-RzoQ&sig2=cac-HZQQhgn5rRycpsPgNg

^ Go all the way down to page 11 and look at the list of words with "th" in and notice that in EVERY single example an "s" sound is used (su/se/sa/shi) for the "th" sound.

Examples not used in the link above - the Japanese say "Happy Birthday" as ハッピーバースデー. Also, "death" is デス. "Earth" is アース. Notice that a "su" is used for the "th" sound.

When it (su) doesn't represent the "th" sound, it usually represents the "ce" or "se" sound. For example - "Ice" is アイス. "Dance" is ダンス. "Balance" バランス. "Sense" is センス.

And when it doesn't represent "ce" it represents a double s sound (ss). For example - "Glass" is グラス. "Kiss" is キス. "Chess" is チェス. "Dress" is ドレス.

There are, of course, a few exceptions where "su" is used to represent just an "s". "Gas" is ガス. "Tennis" is テニス. But this is definitely not very common.

One other thing is the fact that "Sephiroth" uses the "su" ending as well. Why is "Aeris" okay, but not "Sephiros" ? Both endings are pronounced the EXACT same way. There's also no "l" sound in Japanese and they just use "r" for it, so why can't her name be "Aelis"? :-D

It's safe to say they wanted the "th" sound, considering that's how loan words work in Japanese.

I also find it intriguing that you're happy with spelling her name the same way Japanese people pronounce it yet you don't like the Japanese pronunciation of Mako and instead use a different way of saying it  :P

One more thing - The original translators didn't work with the original writers, which is why there were so many errors in translation in the original release. Like DLPB said, the developers wanted it to be "Aerith", so the fact it somehow ended up as "Aeris" in the English version proves the original translators had nothing to do with the original writers / development team.

But, hey, if you want to call her "Aeris" (if that's what you prefer) then go ahead; no one can stop you.

EDIT: lol, DLPB beat me to it ^_^ I couldn't find any pics online to prove it though.
« Last Edit: 2013-08-14 15:07:23 by Captain Epic »