Hi, Newbie Question...

[ItchyPanda]

I've been crawling this forum for a while, and i find it interesting how you guys modify the game.

So the question is...I'd love to create custom models for each of my characters  (-cough- Yuffie  )
So i was wondering, how can i edit BATTLE models? do i have to edit the animations for them as well?
Sorry if this has been asked before / is on the wrong part of the forum / anything i have done wrong, i just want to be part of this.

Thank you!

[obesebear]

Moved to General.

To answer your question.   If you had made even a small attempt to search you would have found plenty of other situations where models have been edited/created from scratch

Warned because I'm in a bad mood.

[sl1982]

You can't call it a bad mood when it is your normal mood 

[ItchyPanda]

Moved to General.

To answer your question.   If you had made even a small attempt to search you would have found plenty of other situations where models have been edited/created from scratch

Warned because I'm in a bad mood.

Oh, ok sorry for asking...
I'll just...search.

[obesebear]

You can't call it a bad mood when it is your normal mood 

Touché

Oh, ok sorry for asking...
I'll just...search.

Cool.  Once you've finished searching if you STILL can't figure it out, then post back and include the information you've found and maybe even include some links.   I personally don't help anyone unless they prove they have already tried to help themselves.

[ItchyPanda]

Well i found this "kimera" program for model editing, currently trying it out and toying around

Good thing you made me search...because there were some errors on my OS that made me unable to load it...but its working

Thanks!

[Miseru]

 Kimera allows simple edits, but if you trully want to work on models, treat it like a program you'll use to test and correct allignment of your model, not make it there.

 A few steps for "true" changing models.

 - Firstly start from getting original battle models from your game, by unpacking battle.lgp using unlgp or even lgptools.

 - Find info here in the forum which files are what as that'll be your most usefull knowledge for any kind of modding.

 - Get a 3D modelling program 3Ds max 7+(7+ means "at least v7")  or Blender. Blender is free and it's much easier to model with, but converting your model back to the game will take more time.

 - Get "biturn" and convert models you want to change to ASE(if you're using 3ds max) or OBJ(in case of Blender).

 - Now fun part - import those to your 3d modelling program and you can do whatever you want. Make note that it doesn't really matter if you just correct those parts you import or do full character model anew, in the end you'll need to cut it on about same parts you want to change and to simplify later work you need to allign those new parts in same positions as those you got from game.

 - Export each part of your new model as 3DS(if using 3dsmax) or as obj(in case of blender), make note you'll need to use biturn to convert that obj to 3ds here couse blender doesn't really export to 3ds everything you wish it would, and you need 3ds model for next step.

 - Open each part, one by one in a program you can also get here called - PCcreator, correcting UVmap, adding texture and setting it's ID's and save as ff7 model file.

 - Test and correct all of those model parts by putting it over original files you unpacked and opening it's skeleton file(one that ends with **aa) in Kimera which you already have and probably noticed that it's best suited for such simple edits. Then pack it back to game and play with newly improved models.

 Also make note that if you don't do all yourself, but just steal somebody's work aka "rip" the model for reusing in ff7 don't ask for any support regarding it in here. It's against the rules.

 A little add to above to answer one other thing - you don't need to make new animations, skeletons nor anything else, just make sure your new model parts will be about same scale and position as old ones. One last thing - ff7 engine is pretty limited, your battle model can have at most 10 textures and also it's somewhat of an art to make it look nice as it's build from XX parts that aren't trully connected and can't deform - and no - you can't change that, soo even if you have greatest modelling skills end result will never be perfect.

 Side not based on experience - althrough modelling usually is fun, converting and making battle model to look nice in game is boring and troublesome process(not counting weapons which are very fast and easy to convert and always look nice without any changes:P). Start from character you really want, as it's most likely you'll have enough of it after finishing just one=].

[ItchyPanda]

That was really useful!
Thanks Miseru

EDIT: Sorry about that.
Anyway can somebody link me to the PCreator files?
The wiki is broken, and search wont do...

[obesebear]

See the modify button?  That's for editing your post.  You should probably read up on the rules before you get in any more trouble.

[Miseru]

Here it is:
http://www.speedyshare.com/files/24051043/Beta_PCreator_v0.85b.exe

Also nice topic with VERY usefull spreadsheet.
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8874.0

[ItchyPanda]

Here it is:
http://www.speedyshare.com/files/24051043/Beta_PCreator_v0.85b.exe

Also nice topic with VERY usefull spreadsheet.
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8874.0

Thank you Miseru, once again.

Another question, I was creating an Aerith model using blender, and then i exported every part of the model, and I added the head to PCreator but when i try to Import the UV it says '"the number of UV coords must match the number of vertices"'
What is that?

Thanks in advance.

[obesebear]

Blender has trouble exporting to 3ds IIRC.  Instead export it as a .obj and use wings3d (or something like that) to export your obj to 3ds.

Blender adds extra vertices for some reason

[Miseru]

 Don't use importing UV, it's only for UVmap you can export in 3dsmax which isn't much use either as 3dsmax can correctly export it's uv map to 3ds files anyway.

 In case of Blender you need to export the model part to obj then convert that obj to 3ds using biturn and it should have correct UVmap(NEVER delete duplicates of your model in blender through as it WILL mess up uv map when you convert from obj to 3ds later those additional verticles of blender which athleticbear mentioned have something to do with UV map islands or whatever it's name and if you delete duplicates it'll get stiched after conversion).

 Only way you need to "correct" UV map in PCreator is to view it(View->UV coords) and "flip Y"(just check it once, if you close that view window it'll save it). Make sure to see Options-> and check there "Battle model" and "textured" too(of course only if that's the case - textured battle model), not sure how or if the battle scale works as I scale it up in Kimera later. Also couse all of that conversion your model will be probably face wrong way but if you alligned it in blender before it'll just require one or two rotations by 90 degrees.(Obviously Blender can change obj models by 90 degrees while import/export, but biturn probably doesn't do that that's why this happen.)

[ItchyPanda]

Ahh...
Everything is fine until PCreator, When i Open the 3DS Its backwards and the objects aren't forming the model they are to a side.

I know i can align it with Blender, but why are the parts not forming the model sometimes? like its position its somewhere else its supposed to be?



Thanks for answering and sorry for the trouble.

[Miseru]

 If what I think you're doing is trying to add few parts at once to pcreator to convert it all at once, then stop. Opening more models in pcreator will still make 1 part in the process and that's not what you want to do. You need to convert each part alone one by one. Save it with names, or rename it later into same names each part you replace had. For example when you convert Cloud's head you wish to name it rtao as such name have file with original Cloud's head. Then copy all those converted parts over original model files and open file starting by **aa(for example "rtaa" for Cloud) in Kimera. If you didn't touch model scale in pcreator at all you'll then probably see lots of small objects, and finally after resizing them all and a bit of rotating you'll see your model in a decent state. Through usually then you'll have still lots of moving inside Kimera to make it look best possible.

 Ah and one more thing, not sure if you thought about it after cutting your model to parts, but close those parts too and do it rather "round", you'll see why after you notice how they're "connected" in Kimera.

[ItchyPanda]

So it doesn't matter if lets say the original Aerith model has a lot of parts (head, a hand, an arm, upper body part, lower body part, etc) 47 exactly, and my Aerith model has only a few parts? Can i still replace that?

How is that process?

[Miseru]

 Hmm my memory isn't best but surely original Aerith model didn't had 47 parts, dunno if you made a typo writing it or count something wrong, it should be more like 27 or probably even less. it was more than a Cloud(17 parts) by dress parts and hair. Surely not 47 dunno what you count as parts:P. Character battle model parts starts on file **am and are limited untill **ck which is first weapon, feels alot, but usually they have just around 2X parts. And you need to reuse all of them if you don't want any errors and for best effect. Through you could always add somewhat "empty" - transparent parts in case for example your Aerith model was wearing pants or had shorter/different hair making those additional dress/hair parts useless.

 But anyway I dunno from what you got to think Aerith original model had 47 parts. You can get all that info in file reconstruction project:
rvam    3.5 K   Aerith: Hip            
rvan    6.0 K   Aerith: Chest
rvao    15 K   Aerith: Head
rvaq    1.1 K   Aerith: Ponytail part 1
rvar    1.1 K   Aerith: Ponytail part 2
rvas    1.1 K   Aerith: Ponytail part 3
rvat    704 Bytes   Aerith: Ponytail tip
rvaw    3.1 K   Aerith: Left arm
rvax    1.8 K   Aerith: Left forearm
rvay    3.0 K   Aerith: Left hand
rvbb    3.1 K   Aerith: Right arm
rvbc    1.8 K   Aerith: Right forearm
rvbd    3.0 K   Aerith: Right hand
rvbf    1.7 K   Aerith: Left tigh
rvbg    2.8 K   Aerith: Left leg
rvbh    1.7 K   Aerith: Left ankle
rvbi    1.2 K   Aerith: Left foot
rvbk    1.4 K   Aerith: Rear upper dress
rvbl    1.2 K   Aerith: Rear lower dress
rvbn    1.7 K   Aerith: Right tigh
rvbo    2.7 K   Aerith: Right leg
rvbp    1.7 K   Aerith: Right ankle
rvbq    1.2 K   Aerith: Right foot

Giving all - 23 parts and for best effect you should recreate them all, or at least most of them(as I said before you can use transparent parts if your model have shorter hair for example) to make nice looking model. But if your model have for example foot and ankle as 1 part, you should cut it for 2 different ones. Same if arm and forearm are one, cut it to be same as in orginal model, otherwise it'll be pretty much useless and look bad even if you find a way to build own ff7 skeleton and reanimate everything yourself. You should know mesh doesn't deform in ff7 engine and animation is actually a bunch of objects put near that's why you MUST cut your model for parts corresponding to single bones. In case of Aerith that would be 23 bones like you see in the list above. And that's also why you need to close every part you cut in a nice "round way" as they'll be "connected" only by moving one part a little bit inside of another, you should open any existing model in Kimera and see some animations to understand that better.

Edit: I guess you got 47 by counting everything in the list inside Kimera:P 23 model parts, 23 bones and a weapon >.>, well now you know you only need to recreate model parts, as you use existing skeleton with it's animations for making it much easier.

[ItchyPanda]

Thanks a lot for answering my questions Miseru, you are being really helpful.

So basically, i have to "recreate" the parts that the original model has and cut the model I have, so i get the exact number of parts of the original?

[Miseru]

 Yeah soo if your model is alike original you'll be able to make it look nicer in game, but in case your model is different you can always think of some workaround. Like if it have shorter hair you can replace parts your model doesn't have with empty/transparent ones. OR if your model would have additional parts - example wings would need to be joint with body part couse you can't really add new part without changing original skeleton/animations and that would require finding it on your own, dunno if anyone have exact knowledge about it, nor you will not find any tools to do it for you(you can re-animate models in Kimera, but cannot create new animations there nor add bones). If you are still unsure just look at already made models from various mods flying around here. Should be easier to see all that at some high poly model.

 Soo in case you still have any doubts you can make each part one by one using original parts as refference or make a completely full new model which then you need to cut in pieces to get about same parts original model use. You can do same about enemies and summons too, through summons are in magic.lgp if memory doesn't fail me.

 Here's an very basic and simple example - in case you have any character model in standard T position you would need to cut it basically like shown here by red lines:

 Of course Aerith model have also additional parts of dress and ponytail exact parts are model dependant. Also remember to pose(and apply it to the mesh) your model hands as they are in game(always posed as using weapons, just look at original hands for refference). And through it's not seen at this example I made fast, but boots are basically cut on 2 parts in about the middle too. Open any model in Kimera to see an example of that.

[ItchyPanda]

Thanks again Miseru, I feel bad for asking so many questions

But I've been trying to find how to cut parts in blender...cant seem to find it 

[Miseru]

 I'm a bit late with the answer and you probably figured it out, but in case not and I see nobody else answered it:| - after selecting your object in edit mode you must select verticles/edges/faces that will create new part and create new object from that by using separate "p" or better firstly duplicate it by "shift+d" and then separating this duplicate(and better select more than less as it's always easier to delete unnecessary parts than join them together again). It'll leave your part open, so you need to close it by modelling some round finishing to it for best result, which you can often make it fast/easy way by selecting all verticles on the edge of opening and extruding them("e") like 2-3 times and joining verticles in the center from last extrude("alt+m" if I didn't forgot, if that doesn't work, try ctrl+m or just look in edit mode mesh->verticles somewhere there;P I have bad memory for such things and didn't had time to play with blender for few days). The better shape you close your model parts, the better it'll look after putting them all together, but it doesn't really need much work a finish up with cone shape is enough in most cases as the end of each part goes inside other and in case of some heavy gloves it can even finish completely flat. Try looking some tutorials if you have problems with Blender it have lots of free and detailed ones over net.