[FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.99994)

[Gatchaman]

Yup, I liked that dialogue too! As soon as I saw him comment on my choice of sword I knew I had to check it with the Buster, and was disappointed I couldn't beat him with it (mostly because it took too long and I got stuck in the mog power soft lock), but I'm sure it's possible if the bug is fixed (if slow).
I enjoyed the battle so much that I've actually gone back to play Crisis Core again, I hope you're pleased!
Adding a slow growth to the Buster Sword would be very cool for keeping it relevant - more weapon options is more fun, right? And it's so iconic, I'm sure at least a few people would like to use it.

I kind of agree that all the boss battle SP should be given to all the characters equally, but I like the idea of giving the characters some individual SP for giving them attention in story sequences, or for their sidequests. So maybe you could award individual bonus SP for completing the battle square and the Junon leagues with a character too, if someone feels their character is underdeveloped. Makes up for neglecting them!

[Sega Chief]

well its your mod, you can choose what you please with the SP thing, just think how bad FF8's draw system is for stat building hehe.

but overall I think it would be best if everyone got equal SP, i don't see how it could work any other way as how would you scale things back for certain playthroughs with different party members.

not sure at what points you mean when talking to them in the story, i guess your basically asking the player which one to increase its stats, sortof like a choice, im not sure if that's such a good idea either as then the player would feel forced to keep whichever one he chose in that situation, and for the choices where the player can't choose to talk to a certain party member , he wont get to use them, but its your choice at the end.

its most likely the player will be doing everyones new threat boss anyway to get the party read to take on the final story bosses, you can give SP points for that particular character for each of the boss fights, but its most likely you will expect the player to do all of them anyway, so it wouldn't much either way.

yeah half the new threats bosses are really cool, but i hope barrets and cids get replaced with something better, i never got to see tifas.


what is with this new boss towards the end of this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGjA1Zu0VZA

I don't remember encountering it in 1.2.

Also I would suggest blocking off the final story bosses until the new threats are taken care of, including the weapons, and then you will be strong enough to do the final story bosses.

That video was from v1.1 of the mod; Bio-Troopers replaced Thunder Gunner there and TG was moved to the Elevator battle.

Hi me again,

After i defeated Safer Sephiroth, the Game freezed/stopped working in the Moment when Sephiroth called Cloud. Background-video(rain)+Audio was still working.
No Error message.

Greetz Aquarii

I can hazard a guess at what caused that, probably someone got stuck when they walked off-screen (maybe). But it was raining in the crater? Maybe I forgot to add the variable switch to the entrance, but I thought I had. Sorry for the soft-lock, that's probably the worst place to get one.

Yup, I liked that dialogue too! As soon as I saw him comment on my choice of sword I knew I had to check it with the Buster, and was disappointed I couldn't beat him with it (mostly because it took too long and I got stuck in the mog power soft lock), but I'm sure it's possible if the bug is fixed (if slow).
I enjoyed the battle so much that I've actually gone back to play Crisis Core again, I hope you're pleased!
Adding a slow growth to the Buster Sword would be very cool for keeping it relevant - more weapon options is more fun, right? And it's so iconic, I'm sure at least a few people would like to use it.

I kind of agree that all the boss battle SP should be given to all the characters equally, but I like the idea of giving the characters some individual SP for giving them attention in story sequences, or for their sidequests. So maybe you could award individual bonus SP for completing the battle square and the Junon leagues with a character too, if someone feels their character is underdeveloped. Makes up for neglecting them!

The Soldier 1st hype is real :p.

Oh yeah, the Junon Leagues could be good for SP. I need to overhaul that place slightly though, it takes a little too long to get through it all. I could try a test or three with the Buster Sword then, see if I can make it scale or not.

[Rufus]

oh right i never took the elevator, i guess this means i missed a boss fight?

maybe you can make it that the game doens't let you use the stairs so no one can miss the boss fight.

[Sega Chief]

oh right i never took the elevator, i guess this means i missed a boss fight?

maybe you can make it that the game doens't let you use the stairs so no one can miss the boss fight.

No, not THAT elevator; I meant the one with Hundred Gunner and Heli-Gunner. Thunder Gunner turns up with Heli-Gunner in that fight, at least in 1.3 (though I think he's there in 1.2 too).

Edit: Figured out the problem with the ending; I could kick myself. It might be tricky just now to update the flevel because the save points are being modified but if I get that done and disable the rank-up feature on it (at least until that's been properly specced) then I'll be able to get this ending fixed and upload the patch.

[Rufus]

oh right.

I think it would be a cool idea to maybe change what happens if you take the stairs, as the original game seems a bit boring.

maybe you could make it that cloud runs automatically up the stairs, and you need to do a rythm game to keep it going.

okay that sounds hard to implement, so not that exactly, but something unique and different like that as the original game is clearly lacking in that area.


Kind of like how you may be fixing the Gaea's Cliff crystals mini boss fights, in that you are improving the original game.

Personally, if I was controlling that section i'd remove the stairs option because its boring, but i would prefer to rework it somehow as the dialogue is kindof cool, but not good enough on its own to have it as a different option to the elevator.

[Sega Chief]

Boring, he says. Taking the stairs is like one of the most iconic scenes in the game, and a proud tradition. You can't tamper with that, it's taboo.

Good thing you reminded me about the Icicles though. I forgot about that.

Edit: Fixed the ending, just going to wrap up these save points and then a patch can be put out.

[Rufus]

will survival mode come out at the same time as 1.4?

I would say I'm only interested in doing a new playthrough in survival mode!

[Sega Chief]

I've said a few times that I'm only starting work in earnest on New Game+ once the NT Mod has reached a point where I'm happy to call it 'finished' and upgrade it to 1.4. When the current re-balance + features are done, I'll likely call it 1.35 because the changes have been quite vast since 1.3 initially released. It's important I focus on the now and make the mod as good as possible with everything I can fit into it.

Edit: Forgot to mention something, I had an idea a while back about giving characters some kind of innate ability. For instance:

Barret: Gains +1 Vitality/Spirit when attacked (maximum of +20)
Tifa: Random counter-attack chance against physical attacks (separate from Counter-Attack materia)
Aeris: Party gets 2x HP from healing
Red XIII: Strength/Magic rises by +1 every turn (maximum of +15-20)
Yuffie: Has a random chance to evade a physical attack, separate from normal evasion (sort of like how Cactuars work)
Cait Sith: Some kind of randomised 'Rage' system using spells + buffs (like Gau, sorta)
Vincent: Innate Fire, Bolt, Poison, and Death resistance (based on his Limit forms)
Cid: When present in battle, all characters have their Luck stat doubled

Just stuff like that. What do you guys think, any ideas? Too broken? I couldn't think of one for Cloud :I

[selius]

I don't have any good ideas for Tifa but i am definitely saying hell no to her counters. i dont want her to do things out of my control when im tryin to morph things. i can remove counter attack materia.

i'll suggest a few anyway, though:

doubled crit chance of the "attack" command.

random chance to attack twice

stacking defense down debuff when she deals physical damage.

random halve damage from an enemy's physical attack (ffxi guarding skill esque)


cloud: strength/magic up when critical

[Sega Chief]

Yeah, I was thinking that about counter attacks maybe not being optimal in every scenario, like for stealing and whatnot. Double-Attacks might cause the same problem though if you're trying to reduce enemy HP safely or knock someone out of confusion, etc.

I was actually thinking of giving Cloud a stacking defensive debuff, maybe 1% each time. It should go on the weapon too, which would save on AI space. Could give that to Tifa instead though, and maybe use the boost to STR and MAG when Cloud is in critical HP (although Tifa has weapons which power up when near-death too; maybe that'd fit better for her?)

[selius]

if you incentivize having her at low health too much it becomes the only way to play her.

i can choose to not use her to lower an enemy's health that im trying to morph, though. i'm fine with either way, but it seems more tifa-esque to do a "flurry of attacks to render an enemy off guard" hence why i suggested the defense down debuff for her. she's got the 2nd highest dex

[Sega Chief]

I didn't think of it like that; I guess we'll go with Tifa having the defence-crippling attacks and Cloud has the critical-HP thing.

[Gatchaman]

Doubling luck and healing for the party seem a bit powerful, but those effects are good otherwise.
Even something like 150% healing makes it super effective, what I see happening is it being a way for Aeris and friends to conserve their MP by using lower level heal spells- her magic stat is so high (maybe not, if you build her differently), that cure magic will already be healing a bunch more than other party members'.
But yeah, I'm sure you'd balance this nicely through testing, and they're both nice effects mechanically and for personality.

some ideas:
A nice effect might be a Dexterity boost with every action (with a limit, of course), like the character is slow to 'warm up'.
I also like the idea of Vincent having innate resistances - maybe other characters could have strengths and/or weaknesses (possible to override with equipment?)
You might be able to make the 'bonus' attacks from innate counter attacks and double cuts HP% based to stop them interfering with morphing or steals. Still could be annoying for breaking confusion.

[atro city]

I've said a few times that I'm only starting work in earnest on New Game+ once the NT Mod has reached a point where I'm happy to call it 'finished' and upgrade it to 1.4. When the current re-balance + features are done, I'll likely call it 1.35 because the changes have been quite vast since 1.3 initially released. It's important I focus on the now and make the mod as good as possible with everything I can fit into it.

Edit: Forgot to mention something, I had an idea a while back about giving characters some kind of innate ability. For instance:

Barret: Gains +1 Vitality/Spirit when attacked (maximum of +20)
Tifa: Random counter-attack chance against physical attacks (separate from Counter-Attack materia)
Aeris: Party gets 2x HP from healing
Red XIII: Strength/Magic rises by +1 every turn (maximum of +15-20)
Yuffie: Has a random chance to evade a physical attack, separate from normal evasion (sort of like how Cactuars work)
Cait Sith: Some kind of randomised 'Rage' system using spells + buffs (like Gau, sorta)
Vincent: Innate Fire, Bolt, Poison, and Death resistance (based on his Limit forms)
Cid: When present in battle, all characters have their Luck stat doubled

Just stuff like that. What do you guys think, any ideas? Too broken? I couldn't think of one for Cloud :I

Would this be easily viewable by the player on the menu or somewhere they can always access? Other than double healing being completely busted, that's the only issue I can think of.

[Rufus]

oh yeah sorry i already asked that ,this mod is soo huge and there are soo many things that have been said i just forgot.


Anyway, yeah, having that extra thing is kind of cool, a pretty awesome idea really.

FF4 the after years had a cool system where by the time of day would affect magic and attacks, example one part of the day could be offensive magic+, offensive weapon lowered etc.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Moon_Phase

something like that can be thought of as similar to your suggestion, but instead of it being something you choose by sleeping in a tent you can just make it so it's a magic spell or something.

[atro city]

oh yeah sorry i already asked that ,this mod is soo huge and there are soo many things that have been said i just forgot.


Anyway, yeah, having that extra thing is kind of cool, a pretty awesome idea really.

FF4 the after years had a cool system where by the time of day would affect magic and attacks, example one part of the day could be offensive magic+, offensive weapon lowered etc.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Moon_Phase

something like that can be thought of as similar to your suggestion, but instead of it being something you choose by sleeping in a tent you can just make it so it's a magic spell or something.

I don't know, that seems kind of arbitrary and in my opinion would add unnecessary complexity. As time goes on a possible issue with this mod could be feature creep, and players may be dismayed by the addition of dozens of new rule sets and mechanics.

[Rufus]

same can be said for SP and special character abilities, this is just another thing that's like that.

I would say all 3 of things could be done, the moon phases added a lot of complexity to bosses, it basically changed the boss fight for each moon phase, with that being said the moon phases is more like the special character abilities.

[Sega Chief]

I'll only add something if I feel there's good reason for it. A common complaint I heard about FF7 is the lack of diversity of the characters in-battle and that character development itself is quite linear. I built equipment with specific stat boosts and effects to help with that, but it doesn't fix it on its own. That's why I think letting the player build the character's stats directly, rather than relying on pre-determined stat arcs, is the other half to the solution.

Innate character abilities aren't quite part of the plan yet, but I thought they'd be an interesting extra. I can add the info in to Beginner's Hall, etc. and can have a text box describe the character's innate ability when they join the party. Double Luck shouldn't be too much of an issue in most cases, though it could be very strong when applied to Cait Sith who has the potential Luck stat of the party. 2x Healing is kind of an all-or-nothing deal due to the way elemental resistance flags work (I can only make it 2x, 1/2, nullify, or absorb); I could make this something else entirely instead, if need be.

As for making weather/time of day affect battles I'd thought about making certain elements stronger in certain weather but I abandoned the idea very quickly basically because I have no way to represent these in-battle. Feature-creep is something I should keep an eye on, I've added a lot of things in a short space of time. Hopefully though they'll all come together to make a better whole, but I'll cut anything that isn't pulling it's weight.

[atro city]

same can be said for SP and special character abilities, this is just another thing that's like that.

I would say all 3 of things could be done, the moon phases added a lot of complexity to bosses, it basically changed the boss fight for each moon phase, with that being said the moon phases is more like the special character abilities.

The difference is that changing abilities based on time of day serves no clear purpose that I can think of and goes against the concept of elegant design, whereas the other two serve the purpose of allowing for character diversity and customization without seeming too arbitrary in the process.

[Rufus]

it serves the purpose of changing the boss fights, its a cool idea, it was used in a final fantasy game, it has strong merit.

it doens't have to be time of day, it can just be anything, its just a smart idea to make offensive magic less powerful, but attacks more powerful, based on say a spell.



for the 2x healing maybe you can rebalance it by making her stats weaker, so although she is a very powerful healer she herself is now a much weaker character, that would be cool.

[Gatchaman]

I really like the idea of a weak magic but strong healer. Though Aeris is THE magic user in the current version of the game (for me, at least), so it could mess up the character balance. Having strong magic stat would be even more special. I think Vincent would have the highest magic, maybe, with Cloud, Cait, and Yuffie (?) having reasonable magic.
I'm not sure if I'd go through with this if I were Chief, but I'd definitely be interested to see how different my party would look without Aeris being such a nuclear submarine of a caster- she's been in pretty much all of my late-game fights.

Thinking about it, I've mostly used her for maximum damage with W-Magic, Quadra Magic = Ultima/Pearl/Break etc, as well as her limits (though I'm avoiding using 'peerless', or even 'fury brand', because they're so OP)
I've also used Cait Sith with the chocobracelet for getting through Nemesis in the Battle Square ("Miss!"), Cid's lucky lucky weapon and double cut for great justice, Vincent as a great secondary caster, Yuffie for SPEED, and a decent sprinkling of the other characters- nobody's been neglected too badly, I don't think.

[Sega Chief]

Broke my bloody toe coming in from work ;-;

I don't want to start nerfing characters for the sake of this extra ability thing. I'll think of something, but too distracted right now.

[Gatchaman]

Aaah! Broken toe isn't nice - look after it!

[Sega Chief]

Gonna be tough; tomorrow is the busiest day of the year. We're doing a full stock-take D:

[EQ2Alyza]

I've said a few times that I'm only starting work in earnest on New Game+ once the NT Mod has reached a point where I'm happy to call it 'finished' and upgrade it to 1.4. When the current re-balance + features are done, I'll likely call it 1.35 because the changes have been quite vast since 1.3 initially released. It's important I focus on the now and make the mod as good as possible with everything I can fit into it.

Edit: Forgot to mention something, I had an idea a while back about giving characters some kind of innate ability. For instance:

Barret: Gains +1 Vitality/Spirit when attacked (maximum of +20)
Tifa: Random counter-attack chance against physical attacks (separate from Counter-Attack materia)
Aeris: Party gets 2x HP from healing
Red XIII: Strength/Magic rises by +1 every turn (maximum of +15-20)
Yuffie: Has a random chance to evade a physical attack, separate from normal evasion (sort of like how Cactuars work)
Cait Sith: Some kind of randomised 'Rage' system using spells + buffs (like Gau, sorta)
Vincent: Innate Fire, Bolt, Poison, and Death resistance (based on his Limit forms)
Cid: When present in battle, all characters have their Luck stat doubled

Just stuff like that. What do you guys think, any ideas? Too broken? I couldn't think of one for Cloud :I

I like the idea so far. I'm not so worried about what the innates do because I know you'll do a good job figuring out the balance. What I really like is "how" the innates are activated. With the exception of Cid, I'm seeing abilities that fit the three basic roles of offensive, defensive, and support:

- Abilities that are activated by dealing damage (melee or magic).
- Abilities that are activated when receiving damage.
- Abilities that are amplified support (buffs, debuffs, heals).

This helps balance class roles among the characters and would give me an opportunity to choose other party makeups based on what enemies I'll be facing rather than who has the best weapons/limit breaks (because we know those are PERFECTLY balanced in vanilla game ). I don't think Cid's fits the mold though because there is no RNG/Turn-based element involved in it. Having the ability work straight from the start of the fight and automatically double something would almost lock him in place as first party member for most party makeups I might want to play.

I would aim for all innate abilities to have some kind of %chance to activate if possible, with a maximum that it can stack. So for instance, Barret's current suggestion could be 10% chance on hit to gain a +5 Vitality/Spirit stack, up to 5 stacks. Offensive abilities could stack offensive stats, or simply perform a critical/double hit. When anything stacks though, I would like to see them wipe if the character dies and revives in combat.

No idea if any of this can be done. I'm just letting my excitement ramble on