Qhimm.com Forums
Miscellaneous Forums => Archive => Topic started by: Kiggles on 2005-11-29 15:11:15
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I have come to the conclusion that a new game plus feature is the single more important element for all decent RPGs to have, but unfortunately no Final Fantasy to date has made use of such a handy feature.
Whether any of you agree or not, how possible would some of you folks say hacking such a feature into FFVII PC might be?
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Just use Jenova to give your new game party the same stats as the one you finished with.
As for implimenting the actual feature... That would be tricky. I'm sure dziugo (the master) could do it though if he wanted to.
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(...)if he wanted to.
And had skills required :-?. But... how would you want it to be implemented? The general idea of course, not the technical stuff...
dziugo
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....FFX-2.
To date, isn't exactly the truth.....
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BTW, Jenova can't edit stats properly last I heard... I dunno if Qhimm ever released a fixed version =/
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There's only two games I can think of that have that feature (both SNES):
1: Chrono Trigger
2: Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals
What other games have that feature?
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There's only two games I can think of that have that feature (both SNES):
1: Chrono Trigger
2: Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals
What other games have that feature?
thats all I know of
ps: is it relly that hard to make a new game+ feature. I would think the hardest thing would be to add a auto save point at the end after the credits (a clear data save (then make sure the game knows to start you off at the biggining of the game with that save (with all your items and materia)
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Actually it would be incredibly easy to do.
We know which parts of a save file are your items, stats, characters, etc.
The things you want to keep after a New Game+.
To actually achieve a New Game+, you overwrite the entire save file EXCEPT for that data.
All the progression flags will be reset and you will start at the beginning.
After that you need only minor tweaking. Unequip all characters but keep the items. Remove all characters from your team but Cloud.
And so forth.
These are all things we already know how to do.
A program to edit a save file in this manner would take no more than a day.
L. Spiro
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A program to edit a save file in this manner would take no more than a day.
So it was about modifying save-game, not adding that option to ff7?
dziugo
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It gets the job done.
That’s the only point there is.
Who cares if there isn’t an actual save-point added to the game at the end?
People (in general) need to stop being so whiney and expecting too much.
And we have more important things to do anyway. If he wants the feature, he gets what we give given the amount of time we have to make it.
So, he can beat the game and just use the program.
Done.
L. Spiro
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What other games?
Parasite Eve series.
Fatal Frame series.
Devil May Cry.
Metal Gear Solid series
Vagrant Story (I think)
Shadow Hearts series
Xenosaga Ep2
SMT: Nocturne
SMT: Digital Devil Saga
Star Ocean 3 (In a very small sense, unlockables thru battle trophies)
I'm sure I missed more than a few.
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Should have thought of the MGS series, haha. Ah well. I have Star Ocean (one of them, can't remember which), but have yet to go through it. Even have parasite eve, but have yet to go through that as well. I really have a ton of games I need to go through, sheesh.
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i dont know about how you can transfer your stuff and stats, but as soon as thats figured out all you have to do is make a scene.bin file with all the creatures at maxed out levels like your guys prolly are, so they can take many hits with the 4x cut + ultima weapon combo that would normally do 9999 damage per hit, basically a game that makes it super hard from the beginning cus obviously you've mastered the game if you beat Sephiroth, and change the values of what the potion and hi-potion to heal to 1000 and 5000 hp. thats basically what a +newgame is, the same gameplay except a little extra something in the beggining and much harder gameplay from here on out. PS, does anyone notice that if you use Jenova before the flashback sequence in Kalm sephiroth and cloud cant hit anything (their weapons are gone though you can still see them) if you wait till afterwards to edit anything and you won't have that problem.
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Add: Soul Calibur 3.
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Anyone remember the actual point of this thread?
Stop worrying about what damn games are on that list.
If you have a technical idea to contribute towards the actual purpose of this topic, please do so.
L. Spiro
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Anyone remember the actual point of this thread?
Stop worrying about what damn games are on that list.
If you have a technical idea to contribute towards the actual purpose of this topic, please do so.
L. Spiro
I agree this tread was made for this game not making a list of game with the feature we want to add.
I may not know how to program, but I think I might have a idea on how to do it.
First find the part of the cade that makes the save point at the end of disk one and 2. The add the save point at the end of the last fmv, then figure out how to make the save file save it so you start out at the trainstation with only cloud
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Come on, isnt it just a case of READ Stats and inventory at the end of the Safer Sephiroth battle and then dump those into a fresh save of cloud at the train station at the start of the game?
Couldnt you use a program running in the background to capture the information in memory and make the save file?
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Come on, isnt it just a case of READ Stats and inventory at the end of the Safer Sephiroth battle and then dump those into a fresh save of cloud at the train station at the start of the game?
Couldnt you use a program running in the background to capture the information in memory and make the save file?
Do we even know how to "make" save files yet?
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Come on, isnt it just a case of READ Stats and inventory at the end of the Safer Sephiroth battle and then dump those into a fresh save of cloud at the train station at the start of the game?
Couldnt you use a program running in the background to capture the information in memory and make the save file?
Do we even know how to "make" save files yet?
You would be surprised if you knew how easily it can be done (the whole New Game+ mod, not just "making the save files").
dziugo
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What i wanna know is if there's a way to just cruise around on the world map and access the gold saucer after "beating" the game, kind of like how you can finsish the "GTA" games, but then still run around.
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Finally got around to dropping by again.
The idea I had would function along the lines of selecting a particualr save file to load up. -- it could literally be any save file and not necessarily a clear game save. For example, take Chrono Trigger. You required a clear game save, then loading a New Game+ the save you selected was irrelevant --. After selecting the desired save file, an app could hack in the apropriate values while the player loads up a New Game through FF7PC. Once it is booting they could simply close the app, and save normally.
An external app would likely be the easiest method. There will likely be a whole bunch of issues to contend with, such as who's statistics/level are dependant upon Cloud's, or are pre-defined within the binary itself.
If so, then numorous hacks would need to be made to eliminate and remedy all such instances, for a truely complete NG+ mod. Needless to say, such a situation would be a serious pain in the ass.
Anyway, I suggested the idea, because utilizing Jenova, to transfer every detail item by item between save files is a serious pain in the ass. Is just giving yourself master everything a solution? Nah, it doesn't have the same feel that an NG+ would. :) The key here is simply automation. The less trouble end users have to go through, the better the feature.
So let's assume character levels/stats are out of the question. Fair enough. But how about items/materia(+AP)/weapons/accessories? All of this can easily be read from a save file, and either actively hacked back into memory, or simply thrown into another save file. I am infavor of the later, since the player would simply need to select the seed file (which contains the equipment/etc) and the recieving file to be hacked. Click go and then they're ripe to load it as ussual. Yeah, it is a far cry from having all of that fun stuff RIGHT from the begining, but it is the difference of 10 minutes of gameplay, and we could at least pick up all of the goodies for the first boss fight.
Ultimately, a save file editor that is dumbed down but tailor made to swap items from one game to another quick and easily is a great and perfectly realistic goal.
Ah well. Just an idea, and I am rambling too much. If the coders out there are interested, consider this just inspiration. I'd rather the folks with the talents pursue something they are genuinely interested in.
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Kiggles: "Ultimately, a save file editor that is dumbed down but tailor made to swap items from one game to another quick and easily is a great and perfectly realistic goal."
Exactly what I meant, but you have to remember, you need to have a save from the end of the game to transfer items/stats from.
So therefore I said it would be easier to pull the stats and inventory from the memory at a given time and then put them into a fresh save file.
If we can edit save files (Jenova, FF7edit, etc) and read stats from the RAM (trainers etc), why cant we do just that?
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Well, it isn't absolutely necessary to have end end END game stats. Just let the player select which save file to use. This is exactly how NG+ worked in Chrono Trigger. You have to beat/make a clear save, but you were by no means obligated to utilize that clear save file for your New Game+ "seed". You could use ANY of the three save files.
Sure, we will miss out on the oppotunity for absolute end game data, but do we get anything from the last few boss encounters? I honestly don't think it will matter TOO much, whether we mandate the player complete the game, or even have passed the first disc.
I guess that will null the idea of a New Game+, but I don't want a potential project to get too convoluted. A generic --if however streamlined-- save edittor that would essentially just swap up the location of save points/scenario info back to the reactor would probably be the easiest on coders, and most flexible/easy to use on the clients.
Depends on how far coders are willing to go, howver. If someone gets intensely inspired to really fry their brain and hack the whole function/feature into the FF7.exe, who am I to stop them?
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I see what you mean, so rather then having a background program grab the stats from memory, just grab the stats from any save game,
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Well, it isn't absolutely necessary to have end end END game stats. Just let the player select which save file to use. This is exactly how NG+ worked in Chrono Trigger. You have to beat/make a clear save, but you were by no means obligated to utilize that clear save file for your New Game+ "seed". You could use ANY of the three save files.
Sure, we will miss out on the oppotunity for absolute end game data, but do we get anything from the last few boss encounters? I honestly don't think it will matter TOO much, whether we mandate the player complete the game, or even have passed the first disc.
I guess that will null the idea of a New Game+, but I don't want a potential project to get too convoluted. A generic --if however streamlined-- save edittor that would essentially just swap up the location of save points/scenario info back to the reactor would probably be the easiest on coders, and most flexible/easy to use on the clients.
Depends on how far coders are willing to go, howver. If someone gets intensely inspired to really fry their brain and hack the whole function/feature into the FF7.exe, who am I to stop them?
that sonds like a good idea. Since you get nothing from the last bosses you relly won't lose anything. I hope someone makes this soon because I am allmost done with the game and I like to be able to have this so I can start my new game with my old stats
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If someone is going to make this import save game feature. Give me a yell and i will start working on modding the creatures so that the creatures start from level 61 and onwards(61 because thats what sephiroth is). for level 70 or so players. im fairly interested in the idea of being able to import your save game.
however there are a few thing's that strike me as extremely bad idea's, importing summon materia such as knights of the round & neo buhmat would just ruin the entire game. Imagin when you meet guard scorpion and then just cast kotr on it?? rather pointless isn't it. In fact i think importing any materia is generally a bad idea. The is alot of materia i would mind early on, such as 2x cut or steal. but i think it would be best to just leave all materia out completly, even the ones you normally start with.
Items are not so bad, they should be left in so the player can cure themselves early on and stuff like that. also a phs system would be fun.
If this is made i will make two mods. One for Lvl70+ Characters & One for Lvl99+.
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Using Chrono Trigger as an example, I would say the enemy statistics should not be modified at all.
Beating the bosses in one hit added extra flare to that game, though I admit that their level/power system was different in such a way that you might not actually kill the first boss in one hit after your first New Game +, while in Final Fantasy VII you definitely would.
But this evens out by the respective lengths of each game.
After you have played through Chrono Trigger enough times to match the time it takes to play one Final Fantasy VII, you are also killing everything in one hit.
Imagin when you meet guard scorpion and then just cast kotr on it?? rather pointless isn't it. In fact i think importing any materia is generally a bad idea.
A mistake many game designers make even in real games: trying to decide what is fun for every player by eliminating potential.
You think it is pointless.
Some players just might get a kick out of using it on such weak enemies. And for those who don’t, they don’t use it.
Everyone is happy.
Even if you maxed out the level of the enemies, they are still going to die in one hit, so using Knights of Round is just for the short thrill of absolutely destroying a weak enemy.
If you recall Chrono Trigger, you should remember that the point of a New Game + is to allow the player to get the items he or she missed while giving the player unfair statistics as a reward for having beaten the game in the first place.
The point is not to slow the player down with revised enemies.
And considering the player has already seen all the areas, he or she isn’t really going to appreciate being slowed-down, since there is nothing new to see anyway.
Imagin when you meet guard scorpion and then just cast kotr on it?? rather pointless isn't it.
Most likely quite the opposite. I suspect very many people would be annoyed if they had to spend another 10 minutes on this enemy they’ve already seen/beaten.
If they wanted to spend 10 minutes on bosses they’ve already seen, and lose all the Materia they already found (forcing them to spend however much time looking for them AGAIN) then that is for what the “New Game†feature is.
Don’t forget that these people have already been through all the challenges the game was meant to impose and already have the ability to start from the beginning without Materia and with “tough†enemies.
L. Spiro
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I'm not against the idea at all or anything, but the thing is, what exactly would you want to do in a New Game+ for this game? With Chrono Trigger, you could get the Rainbow Shell and have Melchior make the other item(s) that he didn't make the first time. Although, to do it on one go, you can have him make three Prism Helms and then you can steal three Prism Helms from the three Queen Zeals throughout the ages in the Black Omen. You can also steal three Prism Dresses, too, so it sort of negates New Game+ for Chrono Trigger in that sense.
Okay, that was horribly off-topic, so I guess the only thing you could do is get items again? Or, I guess, items you missed...hm...I guess it could be fun. I'd be willing to help out in any way that I could.
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Let's call this a little teaser. What would work (look) better:
1. New option in main menu:
(http://dziugo.republika.pl/images/sandbox/var1b.jpeg) (http://dziugo.republika.pl/images/sandbox/var1a.jpeg)
2. Well, this time static screen won't help. You start with a "normal" menu and with "Switch" button you change (toggle) the first option to:
(http://dziugo.republika.pl/images/sandbox/var2b.jpeg) (http://dziugo.republika.pl/images/sandbox/var2a.jpeg)
What do you think?
dziugo
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I like the second option better. Good job, Dziugo. I look forward to this release, whenever it may come.
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New Game + = Rocks
dziugo = Creator of New Game +
Therefore:
dziugo = Rocks
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I haven't even started...
dziugo
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New Game + = Rocks
dziugo = Creator of New Game +
Therefore:
dziugo = Rocks
That's not 100% correct.
IMO it should be:
dziugo = Creator of Rocks 8)
- Alhexx
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Rockinator?
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I like the second layout, looks tidier.
And if you make a New Game + mode... well I like the idea :)
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I haven't even started...
Well I figured as much. You did say it was just a teaser. Just complimenting you on the effort.
dziugo = Creator of Rocks
Ha ha, maybe my college algebra is a little rusty. :)
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I like the first option the best :)
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dziugo seems to be one of the most promising game editors. Dziugo, please do Tifa's Limit Breaks first! Long live dziugo, creator of game rocks! But I really don't see a point to create a New Game+. Final Fantasy VII was fun for one reason (to me): Difficulty. The weapons were lesser than Darkcloud (of Final Fantasy III, the hardest boss in the Final Fantasy World) but still provided a challenge for those who wanted the Desert Rose and what not. If we truly wanted to beat the guard scorpion easily, then we would use a revised version of Jenova (someone in the forums made it, thank you very much caitsith6502 :love: ) http://forums.qhimm.com/viewtopic.php?t=4708&highlight=jenova to edit it correct? There is practically nothing that searching won't help with.
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Chronotrigger and Chronocross had multiple endings, depending on the circumnstances under which you defeated the final boss. That was where new game+ really came in handy - you can go straight to the last boss from the start to get a different ending.
FF7 doesn't have multiple endings, but I think NG+ would be a good adddition, simply because once I've beaten the game I'd like to go through it again TOTALLY OWNING EVERYTHING.
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hi there,
dziugo,
is this new game+ modification also meant for PSX ff7 ?
thanks,
kind rgds
Alex
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is this new game+ modification also meant for PSX ff7 ?
Welcome to the board.
I'm sorry, but this patch will only be compatible with PC version of FF7. Not that I don't want to make a patch for PSX version. I don't know how to do it.
dziugo
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hi,
i see,
when i browsed the forums, it generally seems to be hard to modify the psx version.
at least people still are working on stuff,
like Scene Editor and Save Map :)
Great Stuff,
and now...back to topiiic :)
Thanks
Alex
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hmm.... How about a "background" program that reads the information and when fFVII calls a certain function after beating Safer Sephiroth so it takes the savegame and clears ALL progression flags exept fot the Items and Char STATS (meaning when you obtain a character later it still has the stats)
Is this possible?
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I think that was the general idea in the first place, no?
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If it was then I missed it. Forgive me, but how long are we going to wait for this?
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If it was then I missed it. Forgive me, but how long are we going to wait for this?
Don't hold your breath :P
dziugo
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Thank you, I was turning purple :lol:
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This time, a little video showing NewGame+ in action:
Download link: Teaser #2 (http://dziugo.republika.pl/sub/ngpd.html)
No patch for now, as it would support only US version of FF7. Stay tuned.
dziugo
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If this ends up happening, don't forget to remove people's learned limit breaks, 'cause that could mess things up.
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Looks good.
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Looking good, well done!
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Did this patch get released or is there been any update?
(yes admins I would rather post in a semi old topic then open a new one just to ask the small quesiton)
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The teaser was supposed to be an April Fools joke (see the time stamp), but the patch is actually done... Not really interested in releasing it though - there are some problems with it.
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so it's almost ready? Really, you can make this game really shine, even more than on the PSX, it gets more and more improvementes.
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(Is this too long to leave a topic?)
I'd personally only make the new game + accessible from a cleared save file, as a bonus for sticking with the game so long. But the idea of making the monsters harder is silly. The untamed thrill of taking down guards with a knights of the round just 'pwns all'...