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101

General Discussion / Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!

« on: 2015-06-17 01:15:36 »

I just hope we get to see the Honey Bee Inn massage scene in true HD.

I can't see that happening, because scenes like that will push rating on the game. When was the last time SE made an FF game with anything beyond a PG-13 rating?


But, we're allowed to hope now aren't we?

102

General Discussion / Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!

« on: 2015-06-16 23:45:50 »

Y'know, I was really worried about this at first, but something was pointed out to me: Square Enix has a surprisingly good track record for remakes. FF4DS (and later iOS, Android, and PC) had awful graphics and atrocious voice acting, but it was absolutely true to the original in gameplay and story. They made balance changes, but at its heart it was still clearly FF4. FF1 and 2 have been remade several times, and all of these remakes have been well beyond than satisfactory. The FF6 remake for mobile has terrible art and serious technical issues with scaling and tiling, but it also gets the story and gameplay right.

However, they have a extremely poor track-record when it comes to how they treat the FF7 franchise.

Instead of giving people the remake they always wanted, they ignored fan-sentiment to release spin-off upon spin-off that nobody asked for - spin-offs that changed the art-style, retconned everything from story to character personalities, and even added new things that make little to no sense in light of the original narrative.

The question will always be - is this going to be a remake that is made is if all that stuff didn't happen, or is it a remake that's going to
expand upon and acknowledge all the other shit in the franchise that they added in later years?

As strawberries as the company has been with spinoffs, direct sequels, and new games in all of their franchises, they simply do not have a history of messing up the gameplay or story in remakes. The closest they ever came to that was FF3 DS, where the added a story because the original didn't even have one. It would be out of character for them to change it; their usual story/gameplay awfulness has been thus far never hurt a single remake they've made.

However, as far as I am aware, non of the games they've successfully remade has the same mess of an expanded universe as FF7,
so that was never really an issue for these games to begin with.

I legitimately don't think they understand what people liked about FF7 or why it was good, but I don't think that'll be an issue.

If you don't understand this, you can't possibly qualify the later sentiment in this statement.

They don't WANT to risk changing it, as that would be more work (and therefore more money) than doing it right, and has a good chance of printing them less money. That's not a creative decision, it's a business decision, and especially after the piss-poor market performance of Lightning Returns, there's just no way they would come to any other conclusion.

Actually, I think granted the current state of the market, and the production-costs associated with AAA gaming, they wouldn't risk not changing it - because despite what FF7 fans like to think - there are not enough FF7 purists around to justify spending the kind
of cash you would need to spend for a full-blown, fully 3D, fully voice-acted FF7, which means that if that's the kind of game
SE are going to make, they have to make it and market it to a bigger demographic, which is why the safe thing to do here is to change it.
SE aren't stupid. They can see the success and sales-numbers of the new generation of console RPGs, like Fallout, Witcher, and Dragon Age. They are also bound to have noticed the interest and promise of FF15. They're not going to go "Let's release an RPG with game-play conventions from the 90's aimed mainly at a minority of purist fans that's going to cost us millions upon millions of dollars".

According to what I read by someone on this forum not so long ago, they couldn't even get Zack's death right in the "remade" scene for the spin-offs.  And that's just one scene.  Imagine the poor bastards trying to make the entire game keep to a sensible portrayal of the original story.  Not a chance.  More chance of seeing a chocobo, flying or otherwise.

That's right. They bastardized the entire Crisis Core plot-line, by making Zack, who was originally not a very good soldier by any stretch of the imagination into this super-hero who could fight hundreds upon hundreds of soldiers at once, or face of against Sephiroth without being instantly one-shot.
The entire death scene of Zack has been turned into this Matrix-esque "This is is Sparta!" emotional jerk-off.
Take into account the addition of pointless and narrative-breaking characters like Genesis and Angeal and the entire thing becomes even worse.

CC was a good game IMO, but it made a mess out of the FF7 lore.

The artwork for original FF7 was anime style, but more realistically rendered.  My ideal FF7 remake would be cell-shaded so it looks like this:
http://www.ffcompilation.co.uk/pages/ffvii/images/ffvii_conceptual_artwork/ffvii_conceptual_artwork_020.png
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080926214004/finalfantasy/images/3/32/Cloud_Portrait.jpg
http://www.ffcompilation.co.uk/pages/ffvii/final_fantasy_vii_concept_artwork.php
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110227161510/finalfantasy/images/1/1a/Cloud-FFVIIArt.png
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130202111634/finalfantasy/images/4/42/Cloud_Menu_Young.jpg

That's essentially my thought too - or at least if they made it conventional 3D, to do it similarly to Kingdom Hearts "cartoony 3D".
Despite annoying changes to the characters to make them look more cute, and contrived costume changes, the Kingdom Hearts (the original that is, since later editions started using the AC designs for some retarded reason or another) rendering of characters like Cloud and Cid IMO are probably the best modern 3D renditions of the characters there is.

At least by opting for that graphical approach they could keep pretty much the environmental designs, character designs etc. close to the original.
Good luck to the dev team making places like Gold Saucer true to the original with the current direction. lol.

103

General Discussion / Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!

« on: 2015-06-16 13:41:33 »

I think that when people say it looks like AC, it's because of the way the style leans towards photo-realism rather than the typical Japanese cartoon/manga/anime style of the original game, and I have to say I agree.

Personally, I find that worrisome, because while that style works within the narrative of  AC (because AC only contains locations and characters that lend themselves to that style) - the original game contains lots of strange characters, locations, enemies, slap-stick humor, and narrative quirks that would be extremely jarring against a photo-realistic style - which means that they'll probably be removed for the sake of cohesion with the new style. And that, IMO, might stop this from being a remake that a lot of the original fans will enjoy.

Now @topic in general -
I am not necessarily against a remake that steps more in the direction of what a lot of people would consider a "reboot" if it had happened it the world of comics etc. - after all, we already have the original, and I am not sure that I need nor necessarily want a remake that's simply an upgraded version of the original (I still can, and still do enjoy the original as is - and play it regularly in either case).

However because it's a remake I am still going to be, consciously or not, comparing it to the original to see how it stands up - and to be honest, that might hamper my experience of it. Also, even if I'm not sure if I want such a remake now, I might end up wanting it once I see how this turns out.

FF7 was, to my mind, essentially a 90's anime in game format. Everything from the art-style, to the story-telling, to the music screams mid-90's
unashamed, unabashed and tacky glory. That's what made the game great to my mind. Non of that posturing Iphone, Tron, skinny-jeans, hipster, PC bullshit that passes for "cool" these days and have been the dominant art-direction in pretty much everything from MTV music videos to prime-time television since the somewhere around the later half of the 00's.
Personally, I am sick and tired of everything looking like it's been produced by the same people - everything looks and feels like it's been set
in a parallel universe that is the result of a fusion of the Matrix, MGS4, Advent Children, and then presented as if it's being marketed by fucking Apple.

FF7 was a game that had drunks shitting in toilets asking for medicine, drug-addicts, bordellos, bright neon-colors, people randomly getting hit by trucks during combat, cross-dressing, slap-fights, and brightly colored chocobos raced through a track that looked like it was designed by a person on a cocktail of crystal meth and LSD. It also poked fun at strange body-types, flirted with portrayals of womanizing characters, depicted smoking and alcohol consumption all willy-nilly, while smashing physically impossible architectural structures from completely different time-periods and countries together at alarming rates.
In short - FF7 didn't give a flying fuck about anything except being this over-the-top, trippy ride through conventional FF thrown through a blender of anime and 90's pop-culture and political issues.
That's what made the game what it was - it also something that probably won't work in the modern market with the new generation of gamers, despite the fact that the removal of if it also probably what will be seen as shitting all over the original fans, and make the game feel nothing like the original.

The optimal FF7 simply can't be made anymore. It was a product of its time, for the people of its time. People who missed it back then, will probably never really get it anyways, and making a remake in a way that is approachable to the new generations will inevitably compromise the entire soul of the game.

So, let's be realistic and call it what it probably is - FF15 in an FF7 coat. It's probably being made in the same engine - it might even share a lot of the assets (I always found it peculiar how so many of the characters in the original Versus 13 trailers looked exactly like members of the
FF7 cast, but that might have been a coincidence).
Sure, that might be a good game in its own right, and I might even enjoy it if I go into it like that. But even just based on this trailer alone I can pretty much guarantee that this isn't going to be much like the original in any regard except for in broad strokes.

I'm still looking forward to it though. Because even in knowing that this isn't going to be "my FF7", it's going to be "a FF7", and to be honest - that's enough at this point.
I've waited what? 18 years for this? People seem to think that if they screw up now, that's unforgivable - but I am the other way around. Given the change in the times, and all the time that has passed since the original release and the impact that has had on both the producers/devs, and the fans of the franchise, they can't really succeed in my opinion.
I expect them to fail somewhat, and I am okay with that because instead of going into it expecting "my FF7", I'll go into it expecting a new FF7 and try to enjoy it for what it is.
It might fail at this as well, but that's the metric I am going to judge it by, and I'll make that judgement when I play it - not before.

104

Releases / Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation

« on: 2012-02-27 04:10:06 »

oh, i am SO sorry for trying to help! :]
pfft a dictionary reference. a word's definition is not what a damn book says, its what the people use it as.
of course you can learn a language through textbooks and dictionaries but when you communicate with actual native speakers, you should find that certain words, phrases, etc. are interpreted differently. this should be VERY obvious for any language.

A dictionairy definition is usually formed by general usage. When a certain usage is so minimal that it is hardly made notice of in any substantial way(especially granted the time that has passed since it was used), then it is usually substandard. FF7 is a game - A game meant to be played by many people. Having one of the main characters use a term in a way that most people would be incapable of getting is unlikely at best.

I asked for a reference because this is a thread dedicated to translation - If you're going to help out and provide alternative translations, it's only natural to do so through discussion, and by making proper references.

I learned my Japanese primarily from communicating with native speakers - this doesn't change the fact that translating works is different from just communicating in a language. You have to think about what the author was trying to say, and what way to best express that in the other language, while keeping it as close to the original meaning as possible.

In your case, you provided a translation, as I pointed out, lacked expression for several important parts of the sociolect used in the dialogue. That to me, subtracts from my image of your ability to translate.

このメンツじゃ……」

its really mindboggling to me how farfetched it is to interpret this as saving face. hes literally saying "but with this face..." LOL WHAT?! WHO SAYS THAT?!

No, that's not how you translate it, because "mentsu" does not actually mean "face" - It's a Japanese term describing a concept we in the west generally define with the word "face", and is more aptly translated as honour, reputation, etc.

The fact is that if we define it as group, barretts sentence makes little sense as is, since it either means he's downtalking his comrades(unlikely), or stating that the odds are too great(but then why would being alone help him?).

My post was not meant as an attack on you, but simply because I wanted verification to your translation appart from "I'm Japanese", because it differs largely from the consenus in this thread, and because I was unfamiliar with the usage. You did not provide verification, and have not provided any good reason why your alternative is more likely appart from a snide remarks, and a complete lack of respect for linguistics and translation work.

I doubt anyone here is against help, and it's certainly needed - But it's worth considering how you're offering it.

105

Releases / Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation

« on: 2012-02-27 01:10:29 »

ニッコリすれば面子を保てますよ。 You can save face with a happy smile

That is the usual interpretation.  To save face.    It seems likely to me at least, that this is simply barrett saving face because he is a tough guy and doesnt want to be seen running.

Yep, that's exactly what I was saying. Which is why I object to the term "group". If someone is gonna "nit-pick" on the general translation, they should at least do it right.

メンツ (面子)
http://zokugo-dict.com/34me/ments.htm
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/jn2/218236/m0u/

Thanks a lot for chipping in.

But this still seems to confirm what I'm saying, namely that mentsu is not generally used to mean group, nor is it likely that this is the meaning barrett used it with.

The term mentsu, used to mean member, developed specifically from a mahjong expression. Not only that, the only example of usage provided(as opposed to the "face" definition, which has many), in both dictionairy entries, are specifically written in junction with the term ―が揃う, which to me seems odd. All examples I've seen, are usages specific to when members are lacking or the numbers of members are in question. Why would Barrett say he could have handled it alone, but because members are lacking he can't handle it?

Secondly, after a quick google of the term, it seems even several Japanese people are uncertain about the usage of the term, so it can hardly be a term of general usage(or a term with a consensus use). This makes it even less likely that the writers would have used it in this context.
Several people even said out flat on forums and similar, that the only times the term is validly used to mean member, is when either members are failing to turn up, or one is uncertain about the final line-up of members.

In either case, it's being branded by most as either a substandard term, or as a term only used in a specific context, which in either case does not make sense in the case of this piece of dialogue, since barrett is saying he would have managed it alone.

106

Releases / Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation

« on: 2012-02-26 07:05:17 »

Plus people have an option in installer to use the original incorrect names if it really bothers them.  As for Barrett, I think the consensus is he is referring to running away.

There is no doubt about that. The doubt lies in how Barrett is himself, and his reasons for wanting to run away.

At the end of the day, it depends on how you want to portray Barretts character.
Personally, from my own experience with characters in Japanese media, I would say that Barrett is the sort of tough guy character - In that lies his use of the term "face"(as I exlained in my first post) - Instead of saying something like "I can't handle this, let's run away", he expresses it as "I could handle this, but because that would be "flashy"/uncool, I choose not to".
From the use of the term "mentsu" in this context, that is a perfectly valid interpretation, and one that stands well with Barretts persona.

Having Barrett blame his fellow characters, or something else for his inability to solve the situation, is "unbarrettlike".

In any case, my objection lies to intepreting "mentsu" as "group" - Which sounds like a mistranslation.
I don't mind the use of such a sentence though, since the end result doesn't change all that much.

107

Releases / Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation

« on: 2012-02-26 06:30:26 »

blin1{BARRET}
「チッ……！
　すっかりかこまれてやがる」{NEW}
「オレひとりならともかく
　このメンツじゃ……」
actually "mentsu/メンツ" usually just means "group" but it CAN mean "face" but i doubt thats what Barrett is talking about here.
i think hes either talking about his group as in barrett, aeris, etc. or hes talking about the group outside(shinra soldiers).
i believe hes talking about his group which would be along the lines of
"if it was just myself, i could get by, but with the members of this group, i wont be able to protect all of you"

I would like to see a dictionairy reference to this, as I've never heard of the term mentsu being used that way.
A word that sounds similar that would be used in such a context is 人数, but that is clearly not the case.

as for the other translations, i think its fine and it gets the point across. of course if u want a  REALLY DIRECT translation that would be something else... like for the maid

There is no such thing as a "really direct" translation when dealing with two languages as different as Japanese and English, seeing as many of the concepts and terms don't have equals in the other language.
The fact of the matter is that you'll have to leave those parts to personal interpretation, or try your best to establish a similar term by playing around with words of similar meaning.

For examples, the translation you provide here:

“I'm a beautiful maid,
but I buy and sell
accessories on the side.”{NEW}
“You wont  be ashamed wearing any　of these anywhere…
only goods of the finest quality here.
So, how about it? would you like one?"

which lacks expression for several parts of the dialogue - In particular:

"あたしゃ", "だけどね", "してるのさ", and　"ばっか", which in total makes it quite different from the what it would actually have said
in Japanese if it was meant to be taken as straight forward as the way you translate it here - In which case it would probably look like this:

あたし/私は美人のメイドだけど、ないしょくで、アクセサリーの売り買いもしてるよ。
どこに顔を出してもはずかしくない極上の品ばっかりだよ。どう？ひとつは？

Simply saying that in translation work, there is no such thing as direct translation when dealing completely different langauges, especially if what is being expressed is expressed with area-specific dialects and/or sociolects, and entail terms expressing culture-specific phenomenon(which the part you highlighted does).

Source:Im Japanese

Do you have any schooling in Japanese or linguistics, or spendt any prolonged period in Japan?
Do you have any experience with translation?

Source: I live in Japan, my wife is Japanese, and I have a BA in East Asian studies. Cheers.

Possibly, I'll look into it

In other news....  Gust is goin back to Gusto.  Gusto is very very likely to be correct.  For anyone not in the know, Gast Faremis is named after 2 restaurants / food places.  Faremis comes from an anagram of Famires (Family Restaurant), and Gusto from 

http://www.thefoodpursuit.com/cafe-restaurant-gusto-tokyo-japan/

Gast is a mistranslation.

To be fair though, the restaurants name is written with the katakana ガスと, which in romaji spells out "GASUTO".
So I can see how that error might happen - Still we can't know for sure whether the creators where going for a name based on the Katakana reading of ガスと, rather than the western reading of it.

I'm all for Gusto though. It's not like it's a big change from Gast.

108

General Discussion / Re: What Went Wrong?

« on: 2012-01-25 15:29:32 »

And now I'm going to turn into everything you seem to hate, DLPB.
XIII was (is, actually, as I haven't beaten it yet) a typical (aside from no Towns, nor memorable NPCs) Final Fantasy, and was well worth the time I spent playing it. It had the usual mix of annoying characters (Vanille and Hope, ugh.) and ridiculous weapons (A f*cking boomerang, really?), and it had such an interesting take on the MP aspect of the Battle System, I was honestly quite amazed. Although, it did mean I pretty much never used the Summons...

What exactly was typical about it? Your only concrete example is "mix of annoying characters", and that's not really a good example, because this really falls down to personal taste.
Removing towns, exploration, party control, mini-games, NPC's, length, and depth, makes it more different than previous FF games, than similar, hence the term "typical" is completely nonsensical in terms of describing the nature of that game.

Finally, I can't recall who said it, but someone did say that you shouldn't stick to one franchise / developer. To this point, I proffer NaughtyDog. Never have I played a bad ND game.

Hardly anyone sticks to just one company. But as I said in my previous post, the trend of loss in quality is something that happens all across the board, not just in Square-Enix.
Besides, by your logic, even NaughtyDog will go to the dogs(*lowblow-alert*) in time.

In any case, there is probably some truth in technological advances being somewhat at fault -
Like a lot of people in music production will tell you - More possibilities tend to screw with your creativity.
With limitations,  come the need for creative solutions - With possibilities come the confusion that follows lack of directives.

A lot of creative("cheap") solutions you see in old games(like the world map, where everything is tiny, and the character is huge) were the direct result of limitations, but they still worked out and ended up being central and enjoyable part of gameplay.
Now, it's possible to just use the old formulas and pimp them up with the new technology - Most people just gobble that up anyways.
The new generations of gamers don't smell the stink of degeneration that lies behind the pretty HD facelift used to cover up the same old dusty formulas - And the developers who try to do something new, are struggling by forcing out creative yet utlimately pointless changes, because innovation usually just becomes redundant when there is no limitation there to provoke it.

When we got the huge, 3D open world environments, this was a direct result of new possibilities - But where do you go from there? Bigger 3D open world environments? Do you revert back to the old "overworld" system, or just a bunch of corridors?

At the end of the day, there is a choice between going for the tried and tested, successfull formulas(or try to improve on them), or be innovative.
The fact is that a lot of companies don't do either, and end up failing at both.
They botch the working formulas, and their attempt at being innovative simply ends up with gimicky BS.

FF13 is a great example of this.
They've tried to improve upon presentation(graphics, FMV's, voice-acting etc), but they messed up everything else.
The only innovation lies in the battle-system, but it feels forced and unnecessary, rather than like something new and progressive in a good way. To illustrate this, just imagine if FF13 had been made with the FF10 battlesystem, or something very similar - Do you think anyone would notice? Do you think people would praise it less or more?
It probably wouldn't change a thing, and is why I don't consider the change to be very good in either case.
And how many people buy FF games for the battlesystem anways? When the battle system is the only redeeming quality of an RPG, you know something is wrong - This is like buy a fighting game, solely for the story.

Although old formulas should be upgraded, and improved upon over time - The old axion "There is no need to fix what ain't broken" is never more true than in most media instances.
Most new jrpgs are examples of what happens when you fail to heed this.

With the exception of Last Story, which btw, is scheduled for release in late February, for those who're interested.

109

General Discussion / Re: What Went Wrong?

« on: 2012-01-23 14:22:01 »

I loved FF8, but at the same time had some really serious beef with it - First and foremost the GF/battle system.
I might have "misapplied it", but seriously, the first time I played the game, every battle was either (1) A massive draw-fest for stocking up on magic, or (2) Spamming GFs while using boost to deal with HP heavy enemies - Which meant that every singel battle ever fought was a chore and extremely boring.
Also, limit break system was retarded. I went through most of the game without getting a limit break even once(the only games that did limit break right IMO was FF7 and FF10).

My second beef with it was the lack of impact your choices for Squalls dialogue made in terms of personalizing the character -
I mean, every time you had a nice comeback, and a rude comback, it didn't matter what you chose, because Squall would ultimately revert to "whatever... I was just kidding" or something to that effect, and nullify the choice I just made.

My third beef was have the plot ultimately got butchered over time - Going from awesome(to the ending of the first disk), to wtf(from the prison scene and onwards).
As mentioned, the memory loss + childhood friends thing, strange new enemies popping out from nowhere(Norg, every witch except Edea), and a few a bit too convenient plot devises(like the discovery of ragnarok).
Sometimes, I'm almost(just almost ok) convinced the guys who made the "Squall is actually in a coma"-theory were right, because it's so sketchy at times.

My fourth beef was that I didn't find the enemies imposing or scary. FF7 did a great job in presenting the bad guys, surrounding them with mystery and giving you the feeling that you didn't amount to shit in comparison. I remember actually being worried about catching up to Sephiroth after the Nibelheim flashback, because I knew he'd own my party and I'd have to start all over again, or something to that effect, because I hadn't levelled enough or missed out on some necessary materias etc.
Jenova was creepy as hell - The Shinra building scene was like taken out of Resident Evil.
Ultimately, witches with large breast relying solely on magic that I can counter with reflect, isn't very scary.

But FF8 had great graphics, great soundtrack, Laguna(which is arguably the must human of all FF characters), some real beautiful and creative locations - And overall good style - So it's still one of the best overall IMO.

My two favourite FFs are 7 and 10. I think there is just something about the pacing and presentation of those two that I think stands out in comparison to the rest of the series.

110

Releases / Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation

« on: 2012-01-22 21:43:07 »

That's helped a lot, I can localise this properly now.  On Wutai, a license may be needed...  although you can "go" to the front, a westerner would always say they were sent.  If you are in an army it is automatically sent, you can't be a soldier and opt out...

The soldier outside the manor would reasonably be localised as "Spoiling for a rumble?"  or similar.

Yeah, I consider the first stranslation to be valid, but I couldn't remember whether the nature of the husbands position in soldier was ever clarified - I mean, unless different is stated, you could for instance intepret it as him signing on for the specific reason of going to Wutai.

In the Norwegian military for instance, going to Afghanistan is something you volunteer for, so I was probably unconsciously working from that perspective. In any case, it's a minor point - One or the other isn't going to make that much of a difference.

I'm glad I could provide some small help.

111

Releases / Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation

« on: 2012-01-22 18:47:48 »

onna_2
「フン……！！　あなた、どうでもいいけど、人を怒らせる才能あるかもよ」

"Hmph!! Listen, not that you care, but you sure are annoying."

I'd probably translate this somewhere along the lines of:
"Hmph!!(or "puh" or something to that effect) You - not that it matters, [but you look like you have](Alt. seem to have, might have) a talent for pissing people off(Alt. making people angry).

Your translation isn't necessarily wrong though, and might work just as well in getting the point across. Main issue has to do with the "どうでもいいけど"-part, which probably refers to the speakers feelings on the topic(that it isn't really an important issue, but she's going to say it anyways), not a remark on the listeners feelings on the topic.

itmin1
「あたしゃ美人のメイドだけどね
ないしょくで、アクセサリーの売り買いもしてるのさ」{NEW}
「どこ出したってはずかしくない極上の品ばっかだよ。どうだい、ひとつ？」

“True, I'm a beautiful maid, but I also buy and sell
accessories on the side.”{NEW}
“You'll never be ashamed wearing these… only goods of the finest quality here. So, how about buying somethin'?”

Here I'd think I'd drop the "true" part, and rather go for something like "Even though I'm a [beautifull maid], I buy and sell accessories on the side, you know? " - Reason being the "だけどね", which to me seems to indicate that the speaker is trying to say that the accessory job is something she shouldn't have to do, or something she does but doesn't looking like she's doing because a beautiful girl like her obviously has better prospects.

I added the "you know?" because of the "のさ" at the end, which is basically a meaningless add-on, but still adds a certain flair to the original text that is missing in the translation. You could replace "you know?" with pretty much any English wishy-washy conversational filler though.

As for the "Beautiful Maid", there isn't much you can do with this one. It's correctly translated, but it just doesn't work well in English. It's just probably the girl expressing that she finds herself to be a beautiful woman, not "maid" in any literal sense of the word(maybe she's implying she's a beautifull and ladylike/young woman) - In that sense, it might actually be better to take some creative liscence and change it to "Beautiful young lady", or "beautiful lady", or something to that effect, simply because that makes more sense in English.

As for the final sentence, since I couldn't find any punctuation, I'm guessing one part is supposed to be read as "どこ出したってはずかしくない極上の品ばっかだよ", in which case the closest translation would be:

"We/I only have goods/items(this word is used often in FF, so why not keep it) of the finest quality that you wouldn't be embarrassed to take/wear anywhere. How about one?"

This of course is directly translated and doesn't sound that natural in English. Maybe you'd be better off dividing into two sentences?

My final suggestion would be something like this:
"Even though I'm a beautiful young lady, I buy and sell accessories on the side, you know? "
"We/I only have first-rate items here - You wouldn't be embarrassed wearing these anywhere! So, how about it? Wanna Buy something?"

mrkt3
Multiple passages, problem.
「あんだよ！！　てめー！！
　みせもんじゃねえぞ！！
　オレは、いまいそがしいんだよ！！」{NEW}
「ビンビンに感じてんだよ！！
　戦いの予感ってやつをよ！！」

“What the hell!!?
Hey,you!! This ain't no show!!
I'm a little busy right now!!”{NEW}
“I feel it comin' on hard.
I reckon there's gonna be a fight!!”

Definite innuendo to erection but he doesn't seem to be doing anything, is he just telling you to mind your own business?... and there are no signs of a fight? Passage makes no sense as is.

"You!! what the hell!!"(this sentence order is more natural, this guy is speaking impolitely/yankee and therefore a lot of the word orders become reversed - "なんだよ！！　てめー！！" is actually "てめー、なんだよ ")
"You! What the hell (are you doing)/(do you want!!)" might also be a good alternative.
Some people like to replace "てめー" with the term "bastard" or something to that effect, since "てめー" is basically the most impolite way you can say "you" in modern Japanese - Do with that as you will.

"This ain't no show!!"-part is pretty good. But the "もん", and the "じゃねえぞ" is a rude and direct way of saying it, so maybe it should be expressed "This ain't no god damn show!!", or be creative - "What the hell are you looking at me for?"

"I'm really busy!!"("leave me alone", or "you're being a bother" is probably the implication made by the use of the -んだよ in this case, and should be expressed if possible).

The last part should probably be read as:
戦いの予ってやつをビンビンに感じてんだよ

"I'm really feeling the premonition of battle here" - Is the direct translation - and I'm guessing it's refering to how he feels you talking to him is disturbing, he implying that he wants you to leave him alone or he's going to give you a beating.
How you want to express that in English though is a little beyond me.

My take on it:
"Chump! what the hell do you want??
This ain't no god damn show!!
I'm really busy, so scram!!
I sense you're provoking a fight here!
Or something to that effect.

These scenes are outside Honeybee Manor.
「くっ～～　どうしてもダメ……
　ここから先に進めないです」{NEW}
「ボクのレベルと給料じゃたりんです。
　身分がちがいすぎるです」

“Urrgh… this ain't gonna happen…
I can't go any further.”{NEW}
“Not with my rank and salary.
There's definitely a mismatch there.”

Soldier outside Manor.. He seems to have some issue entering, probably financial but it has been suggested that he may want to have affair and that is what is stopping him? Seems to me that it is just purely financial and that he is saying his salary should be better considering his rank?

This is largely correct - He's basically saying that he doesn't have the money or status is lacking, and comments on social status being too different - This seems to imply that he's probably got his eyes on this one girl, but doesn't have the money or power to acquire her.

"urrgh/ugh/uuuhh... No matter what(I try), this isn't working out.
I won't get any further with this -
Not someone of my level, with my salary....
Our paths(maybe a better word than "social positions") our just too different..."

「おっ、あなた、聞き耳はやいねえ。
{TIFA}ちゃんはムチムチの新人さんだよ」{NEW}

“Heh,you're a fast one.
{TIFA}'s our latest sexy face.”{NEW}
I said sexy face because I couldn't think of anything better with localisation. Any ideas?

"Oh, you're a fast one, aren't ya?
Tifa's our scrumptious newcomer"

ealin_12エルミナ
「……戦争中でね。
　わたしの夫は戦地に行ってた。
　ウータイという遠い国さ」

Elmina
“…during the war.
My husband was sent to the front.
Some far away place called Wutai.”

Japanese says country? I thought Wutai was just a village or?

This should be changed. It says 行ってた, which should be translated as "going" I.E The husband wasn't "sent" to the front, he "went" there. He might have been sent there for all I know, but this is certainly not implied. From the form, it might even be taken as he chose to go to the battleground.

I always got the impression that Wutai was supposed to be a country, or a land, rather than just refering to the village - but maybe that's just me. The Kanji is usually only used like this, when speaking of countries though - Except in a few instances, like in old Japan, where all the districts themselves were refered to as kuni. In any case, the use of the term "place" seems a good way to circumvent this issue.

I'd go with:

"...during the war -
My husband went to the front...
In some far away land/place called Wutai."

blin1{BARRET}
「チッ……！
　すっかりかこまれてやがる」{NEW}
「オレひとりならともかく
　このメンツじゃ……」

{BARRET}
“Son of a…!
Bastards have us
completely surrounded.”{NEW}
“If it were just me…
but I gotta reputation to keep.”

"reputation to keep" originally something like "If it were just me, then...", what does he mean? That on his own he would just kill everyone? I don't quite get what he has in mind? I will localise this better when I know what he means.

There are a few ways of interpreting this:
The term "mentsu" here refers to the concept of face or honour - One of the basic tenents of which is not to draw attention to oneself - So Barret might consider taking on everyone at once, but that would be flashy and therefore he would lose face.
This concept makes little to no sense to most foreigners, as we do not have a "face" culture in the same sense - So you'd probably be better of changing the sentence all together.

You could also take it to mean, that if he didn't have to watch out and protect the others, he could fight all out, or run away - But both of those options require him to not to care of the others, and thus lose him his face in a way that westerners could understand though.

I'd probably translate it something like this though:
"Tsk....
They've gone and got us all completely surrounded...
If it were just me... Anyways, at this rate...."

This way you sidestep the issue and still get the main point across.

112

General Discussion / Re: What Went Wrong?

« on: 2012-01-22 02:12:11 »

Yes. I speak fluently(still struggling with Kanji though).
Worth mentioning that Last Story is pretty basic in its presentation so even the average anime fan should be able to get through it and grasp the gist of it(more or less everything fully voice-acted, semi-English menus, and all relevant information like item-names and place-names are usually related in katakana). Gameplay is also pretty straight forward to the point that it plays out intuitively for long standing jrpg fans as well.

I'd advise anyone to give it a try regardless of the language barrier. When I played my first FF game, I couldn't read English fluently, and back then there was no voice-overs to aid the effort - I managed it pretty well - So playing Last Story shouldn't prove that much of a challenge to most people I think.

Playing that game I think I realized how much effect Sakaguchi probably has had over the years on ensuring the quality of the FF games. It's one of my all-time favourite games, and it's the only game he has made since  FF5, where he has been both director, and original concept designer at the same time, which seems to confirm the relation between Sakaguchis level of involvement and the quality of games being made

I'm almost willing to bet that if he got back control of the FF franchise, we wouldn't have to wait for much more than a year, until we saw a FF game with the old magic revived - But then that's not going to happen - So screw Square-Enix.

113

General Discussion / Re: What Went Wrong?

« on: 2012-01-21 15:50:50 »

To be fair though, despite any illusion of freedom, all FF games are completely linear by most accounts.
Although you can sidetrack a few times, you're always on a one-way railroad track towards the end - There are no alternative routes(except in a few limited ways, like in the Shinra HQ), and no alternative endings. The only "non-linear" elements of the earlier games is a very few side-quests, and the ability to backtrack or dally around old spots - But you can't advance lest you move back on track.

Still, I agree that it's a stretch to compare FF10 with FF13. FF10 stripped away the world map - But that's basically it.
FF13 stripped away almost everything else that people consider the core elements of any good Jrpg.

As for Last Story - It's god damn amazing IMO.
It's the only next-gen j-rpg made since the end of the PS2 era that I consider worth mentioning at all in comparison to the old giants(FF6-10, Suikoden 1-2, Xenogears, BoF3-4, Vandal Hearts, Alundra, Chrono Trigger/Cross etc).
In fact, I consider it even better than some of the old classics.
It's the only Jrpg, where I haven't hated a single character from the main cast, and had no grudges with neither story nor gameplay.
The only drawback for me, was that it could have been longer and more massive in scale - But you can't have it all.

114

General Discussion / Re: What Went Wrong?

« on: 2012-01-20 02:16:38 »

Some points worth adding though:

You can blame the old fans for gobbling up sh*t, but I think a larger problem is the new generation of mainstream gamers.
The fact of the matter is that when "games were for nerds", the crowd gaming was smaller I.E potential customers less, and with that comes a larger responsibility on the part of game-developers.
You can't opt for a hit and miss strategy in a niche bussiness - Especially if you consider the cost of production versus the risk of failure.
Nowadays however, everyone and their mums dogs play video-games, and so critical demand is less, and potential customers have risen.

Like with how it's done in all other parts of the media industry, it's more economically feasible to observe the trend of the average and design your product with that in mind.

Since the amount of gamers have risen in total, and the quality-demanding, obsessive gamer type has arguably become a much less important force in the market, games will be made accordingly - Final Fantasy is no different.
The fact of the matter is that you can still go around the internet, and find tons of people that hugely enjoyed the newer installments in the series - pressumably because their standards are lower(or different) compared to the older generation.
A company, thinking in terms of profit, is sure to notice this. Why spend ages, and tons of cash creating a product appealing mainly to a smaller section of the possible consumer base, when you can make a product with less effort that will appeal to the masses anyways?
You see this trend clearly in the music industry - Why should the gaming industry be any different?

Sakaguchi leaving and money issues etc, has surely had some impact, but gaming becoming mainstream, and everything that entails, is probably the biggest issue in my opinion.

Another factor, in terms of Japanese games like FF and MGS, is the Japanese culture and their view of story telling in visual formats.
The fact of the matter is that, despite their tradition of developing great games carried mainly by gameplay, Japanese gaming history has tons of examples of a deep gap between gameplay driven media and story driven media(not saying it's always like this though).

In many ways, the new generations of games focusing on cut-scenes and only partially interactive scenes seem deeply rooted in the "visual game novel" tradition. Many Japanese "gamers" seem simply to be more interested in the story aspect, than the gameplay aspect. In light of that, it's natural to put more focus on this from a developer point of view, if your main objective is to make money, or please the masses.
In that way, the direction of MGS and later FFs are only logical - It's imaginable that a lot of Japanese developers have always wanted to present their stories in this way(more akin to interactive movies, than games), but have been unable to due to technological limitations. If you think FF13 was difficult to endure, imagine if FF7 was presented the same way, but in that era of graphics, and sound.
(This trend is even becoming true for the west to a certain degree as well - Consider the casual gamers approach to gaming)

IMO both these explanations seem more likely in terms of FFs decline, as these explanations branch into the issue with a lot of other titles from Japan(and the rest of the world) that have taken a turn for the worse over the years since the second half of the PS2 era.

Also -
Although I agree in your general assessment of the series, I can't find myself to agree completely with your view on FF12-13.
FF12, while a completely different from earlier titles, was a good game in it's own right(I agree that the story was weak though - Lack of character development, and long stretches between ultimately short and unfullfilling story segments left a lot to be desired).
I imagine that if they had dubbed it "Final Fantasy Tactics : somethingsomething" or "Vagrant Story : somethingsomthing" instead, the difference would make more sense, and less people would have complained about it.

If it wasn't passed off as a part of the main FF series, I'd easily have rated it an 8 or something to that effect. Giving it 7 or less just doesn't make sense when you consider the vast amount of RPGs that are 10 times worse, yet rated in the 5-7 range.

Same can be said for FF13 - Where it fails as an FF game, it shines as an FF interactive movie. Unlike FF12, I have gripes with the gameplay(or rather lack thereof), but not so much the story - I didn't like it personally, but to write it off as bad story-telling IMO is disingenuous to the extreme.
If you look at the FF series over the times, the quality of writing has undeniably become better with the years, regardless of whether we like the character or plots or not. Consider the more sums of money they have to hire professionals to write, edit, and oversee the story, the better it will be in technical terms.
There is a big difference with the totality of a plot, and the way which the plot is presented with dialogue(and or dubs).
If we imagine FF7 made today, for the first time, but fleshed out by the people who do the work on the newer FFs, there would be a large different, and most likely for the better, in its expression. Anyone who says otherwise is either blinded by nostalgia, or has no idea what good writing is to begin with.
There is a big difference been something being technically well written, and something being creatively well written.
A creative product I.E much of what is related to the plot etc will always be something difficult to judge except by the most subjective of standards because everyone have different preferences for how stories should unfold or how characters "should" react in a given circumstance. Many people for instance, jump on any story ending abruptly with the victory of  the villain, and call it bad writing, - which makes no sense whatsoever.
Similarly, one-dimensional characters are instantly branded as bad, yet I've met many people through the course of my life just as stereotypical and flat as your average RPG character - So go figure.

Technical aspects of writing however are much clearer.
The newer FFs(FF12 being the one exception I guess, but it's obvious that they weren't trying to create a story driven game to begin with here) are all, as far as I'm concerned, technically better written than the earlier ones.

I still consider the earlier plots better than the new ones - But they aren't expressed as well. Some of the dialogue in the earlier games, if you read it out aloud, are formulated like sentences you'd expect to find in a book for 4 year olds, or basic grammar books for students of a new language - "I am so drunk now, my head hurts." and stuff to that effect.
That's not good writing.

Personally, I found the cast of FF13 to do the job of resembling actual people much better than say FF8, which arguably had some of the worst character expression in the entire series(not counting anything before 4, and 12) - The only character with the depth to be called believable in FF8, was Laguna.

But again, discussion on those aspects of a game is hardly productive - With the right angle you could probably bombard the sh*t out of any game you'd like, given the time and place.

For the most part, your post was a great read.

115

General Discussion / Re: Final Fantasy X Is Being Remade For PlayStation 3 And Vita

« on: 2011-09-21 15:59:31 »

The key part of that post, which pisses me off the most, is the "if we where to make it in the style of FF13" -
Again, why the hell would they do that? And why would anyone want that?
The game could be remade in several ways that would allow it retain present day quality, and yet be done much faster than what is claimed by SE officials.
The entire premise is ridiculous which is why the timeline is ridiculous as well.

Furthemore, games like Oblivion, GW2 Skyrim, GTA4 etc, don't even take 10 years despite their massive amounts of content(more than FF13 by far), which in terms of gameplay and content is much closer to classical era game design than FF13 is.. Even if we grant the FF13 premise, it still wouldn't take 30-40 years to produce a FF7 remake of FF13 standards.

It all comes down to internal company issues, laziness and probably a large dose of insecurity, knowing that if they screw up a FF7 remake, they'd probably lose all credibility as a company in the eyes of a large amount of people.
If they'd bother to put together one large dedicated team, instead of wasting work-power on multiple shitty spin-offs at the same time etc, spendt some time trying to get deals with the original team, and interacting with fans of the original game, a remake could be done in the same amount of time it takes to produce any other game.

At the end of the day, producing games might have gotten more time-costly and expensive, but if you consider the increase of funds and technological advances in the franchise altogether, making games today isn't necessarily more difficult than it was back in the PSX era. If FF7 is impossible today, it should have been impossible back in the days too.

It obviously isn't lack of possibility that is stopping SE from remaking FF7-9 - It is lack of will, and risk VS the fact that it's much simpler to rescale FF10 and milk that for what it's worth instead.
Wait a year or so, and they'll make HD version of FF10-2, and FF12 as well. Maybe we'll see a few more cheap shots at selling the PSX 1-6 as a campaign packet for PS Vita.

116

General Discussion / Re: Final Fantasy X Is Being Remade For PlayStation 3 And Vita

« on: 2011-09-19 12:36:32 »

More lazy acts, made solely to cash in on old glory. That's SE for you.

I bet they won't even bother to update the textures. It will probably just look like what FFX looks like when emulated on a good pc, with maxed out settings. Maybe not even that good. It's not much different than the so called "remakes" of the nes/snes games on the psx - but at least those remakes where warranted in the sense the a large portion of the US/Eur audience never got to play the originals to begin with.

This is just rehashing for the sake of profit because making a new game, or remaking the older ones is "too much work".

And some still wonder why a lot of people now criticize SE?

It's so disingenuous it hurts. Yeah, remaking 6-9 would be a lot of work, but not nearly as much as people seem to think, especially if you consider all the different production methods available to them.
It would take ages if they where to make it look like FF13 - The questions is, why should they?
FF7 doesn't need a FF13 facelift(and doing so would screw over the original art to begin with).
CC was released for PSP for gods sake. Making a three disk PSP game with CC level graphics, wouldn't require half the work of FF13, and most people would still be overjoyed.

This site itself proves how fast a pretty high-quality HD remastered version of FF7 could be made, if it had a dedicated team of payed game devs.
They could even use the original engine if they wanted to, as the people here are. It all depends on how much of a facelift they are going to give, and what console they would be aiming for.

At the end of the day though, if they're willing to give FFX a minor facelift and re-release, they really have no excuse for not doing the same to the older games considering that most of them already has re-releases in ther original formats(I.E waste of time).

Retouch the backgrounds, the 3D models, the textures, the music, the gameplay balance, and the writing, and we'd have a FF7-9 that would at least be passable until(or if) a proper remake is made - This is possible, and wouldn't take SE that much time nor money, and if it had been released through the PSN instead of the original versions, it would probably have sold much better as well. They didn't, yet now they're doing an even shoddier, yet similar work on FFX.
Seriously. What kind of shit is that?

117

General Discussion / Re: FFXIII?

« on: 2011-09-18 21:52:10 »

@hian
You said one way to see where a series goes wrong is to imagine it today and see where it starts to deviate from the core. Then I said you don't need to. You don't need those lenses to see it. FF13 is still worse than FF4 if you judge 'em by the time they're released. Am I'm disingenuous? What was my point? Don't you agree if you imagine enough, anything can be anything. I was not trying to correct you.

Ah ok. I just misunderstood you then. I thought it looked more like you were arguing the other way around.

I'm not sure I agree totally on FF4 being a better game in general, by todays standards, compared to 13 though.

The thing most people are apt to forget, is that if you played the original FF's in their original forms, their writing was generally shit(sorry to say).
Most people tend to lean on gameplay and story when they argue that older games were better, but even if thematically speaking FF4 was pretty good, like most nes/snes games, the dialogue which carried the story wasn't fleshed out in any way to make the characters and story truly alive, by any other media standard(books, movies etc).
After all, there was no tradition for quality writing in games back then(All your base are belong to us)
Older FF games required the player to get much more involved creatively to make the game come alive. Newer games, with their large amounts of dialogue, graphics and sound, don't need that.
Most people forget this though, because when we replay the old FF games, we still play off of the experience we got when we got creative with the games the first time.

The writing of FF games wasn't properly fleshed out until FF6 - Which leaves gameplay - And in terms of gameplay and content, it's still a Snes game, so it leaves a lot to be desired by todays standard.

This is the reason why I don't accept the argument that FF13 is an alround bad game - It isn't. It's an ok/good game. It's just a large step backwards as an FF-game in all departments except presentation.

I would disagree with you if you state FF started to change with FF10. Again: FF have always re-invented itself, and you can't count spinoffs like FF tactics in the picture.

Care to state why? I provided pretty good examples of how little change actually happens in FF games up until 10, in terms of actual gameplay, pace, and build. As I said, the change is usually limited to battle-mechanics, magic-mechanics and the setting.

Why can't I count Tactics though? Tactics is an excellent example of what "reimagining" actually means. FF Tactics is a reimagining because it is totally different. To refer to FF4 as compared to FF3, as a "reimagining" is a complete abuse of the term.

In any case, I agree with the rest. It just seemed to me, by your post, that you were arguing the other way around.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for all the opinion vs fact talk:

Yeah, all media, and standard of judgement is subjective at the end of the day. We all know this. It's beside the point.

Nobody here seems to actually be saying that FF13 is objectively a bad game in some absurd universal sense.

People are simply pointing out, that by the standards of earlier titles, and by the standard used when people judged those titles to be quality games, FF13 is not good.

Yes, the standards of video-gaming are arbitrarily set, but they are set all the same.
If you don't agree with them, good for you, but that doesn't really make any difference. For instance, I have my beef with the standard from which most people judge fighting games, but I know I'm a minority in that respect, and take that into account when raising my opinion.

When I say "I think Battle Arena Toshinded 3 is the best fighter ever", I know that isn't the case by the standards that most people judge fighters by - So, if somebody points out that Street Fighter 3 Alpha has better balance, I have to agree, because it's true.

Similarly, the point remains that FF13 us step backwards in terms of content, and story. That is not an opinion.
Thinking that it is, is as inane as thinking that Mondo in BAT3 is a fair and balanced character.

I also enjoyed FF13 to a certain degree - I'd have enjoyed it more, if it had been longer, had more exploration, a deeper combat-system, more minigames/interactive parts, cities, more side-quests of varied nature, and a more unique story.
This is sad to me, because I know SE could have done that if they had wanted to, and cared less about quick bucks, and more about creating quality games.

Consider if FF7 had been released(in the wake of a game like FF6), with Vagrant Story(top notch for PSX era) graphics, 20(+/-) hour completely linear gameplay, no exploration, no minigames, and a story which was more or less a complete revamp of an earlier game -
What would people say?
That is basically what FF13 is.

118

General Discussion / Re: FFXIII?

« on: 2011-09-13 23:00:19 »

I could agree to a certain extend, but then again who decides what the core elements are? Remember, FF was early on criticised for leaving it's roots. Also the later games are, after all, sequels to their predecessors. The experience from FF1 brought FF2 and so on. By this standard, FF1 may as well be the best. Imagine FF1 developed for the first time today: Give it some plot polish and production quality and voila! I think FF2 would be pretty different from FF1. If you polish them enough. No, I consider each game a part of that time. Even if you do it like this, you have to bring a great deal of imagination to the table, which tends to be biased. Your favs are your favs. I agree FF13 falls short in many ways, but I don't think we need those lenses to see it.

Who decides? Nobody. If I ask you what the core elements of a novel is, is that something somebody can redefine as they please at this point in time? Is it subjective? In a way, but at the same time, not at all it. Core elements by definition refers to the larger aspects that define the concept in question, which in this case is FF.
Nobody is saying the core elements of FF "should" be what they where back in the days - People are saying those core elements are better than the ones they use now. I happen to agree with that.

Your point is nitpicking on your part, and IMO, disingenuous when you consider the general nature of every FF game from 1 to 9(in part 10).
All these games, while making minor changes to the magic and battle system and slowly adding content, where in terms of the general formula, more or less exactly the same.

Sepparate battle and exploration screen, random encounters, world-map, full control of several party memember during battle,
and a "town/dungeon/world-map" exploration pattern broken up by minigame-like gameplay aspects, is basically a summary of the entire FF formula up to from 1-9.
Only with Tactics and 10 did they actually start to deviate from this.

If you consider this, FF1 and FF2 will not be much different no matter how much polish you give them. The only difference between these games lie in amount of content, battle tweaks and story.
Calling early FF games majorly different is as meaningless as saying Modern Warfare 1 and 2 are very different.
That's also where the biggest difference between the new and the old ones lie - While the old ones are sepparated by tweaks and amount of content, the new ones are sepparated from the old by simply removing large parts of the old gameplay elements, and content, and pushing more focus on presentation instead.

6 and 7 too. The steps just gets bigger for each entry. FF have always re-invented itself. It's the nature of FF.

People like to say this, but that isn't really true. The first time FF really reinvented itself is with the release of Tactics.
Before that, all they did was tweak the same old formula. People only blow this out of proportions because most people seemed to find it so amazing and original to have a series where each game was story- and setting-wise completely irrelevant to the next.

If some sh*tty aspects like sh*tty minigames are cut out, and not replaced by something else, I personally don't consider it a bad thing. A game should be judged on what it is, and/or what it strives to be, not what it never intended to be. Try to imagine what the developers want the gamers to experience.

That's fine, but and rpg is an rpg. FF13 has cut out of basically everything except for the battle-system and the presentation of the story. No matter how you twist or turn it, that is a step backwards in terms of production regardless of what type of art we're talking about.

And we're judging it on what it is - A Final Fantasy game, and rpg, a story-telling device and a piece of art, which is released in the wake of tons of other similar pieces. Trying to judge a game completely devoid of context isn't only probably impossible, but not a good thing because it would ruin any sense of standard, and hence any basis for judging something to begin with.

FF13, lacks large amounts of gameplay and content compared to earlier titles. That's a fact. Some might find those lacks to be a pluss. Most people don't. This is easily demonstrated. Maybe SE wants to produce interactive movies, with little to no gameplay. Maybe that's what they want us to experience. Unfortunately, I'm not willing to pay for that, or "play" it.

And to try to argue that such a piece is better, or a step in a good direction from a perspective where you take into acount things like genre, background, and what games are to begin with, just doesn't float.

I dunno, but I think 13 had several sequels in mind. Didn't the lead FF squeeny guy say it would continue for 10 years?
FF10 and FF7 were certainly not developed with a sequel in mind.

Maybe it was - maybe it wasn't. I doubt it was when it was on the drawboard - which is what makes the entire difference.

And, what's your point? Appart from the battle system, FF10-2 was a steaming pile of garbage IMO, and the same applies to every spin-off related to FF7. This just reiterates my point, that you shouldn't create spin-off, sequals or prequels to stories that weren't designed with that idea to begin with.

I have to disagree with you there. As you may have noticed FFVII has worked on a similar principal and as far as i am concerned it was pretty epic. I enjoyed pretty much almost everything of DoC and of Crisis Core. (Not to mention the movies which were awesome too ^^ )

As you're entitled to. I enjoyed the 90s show about  Sinbad the sailor, I still know that it was, in terms of quality, completely horrible.

People need to divorce the emotion "like", from the concept we call "quality". The two are not necessarily inter-related.

DoC was a mediocre/poor 3rd person shooter(compare it to any other high-ranking game in the genre), Crisis Core bastardized the original story of FF7, and AC was, except for the animation quality(which still completely breaks with the original vision of the art), as completely "B" in every sense of the term.

I though AC and CC was great fun too though. Same goes for FF13 - But seriously, taking into account the times for which each FF game was released, and the progression between each game, I have a very hard time taking seriously anyone who thinks FF13 is a step forward in the series in any way at all, except for in its presentation.

119

General Discussion / Re: FFXIII?

« on: 2011-09-12 23:23:35 »

The easiest way to demonstrate when a series is going in the "wrong" direction, is to compare the core elements of the older games, and see how they would have held up against the newer releases, had they been released today.

I doubt anyone but the biggest fanboys would go "FF7 is the best game ever, per todays standard", and also claim that they weren't biased at all. Everybody knows it's a dated game. That isn't the point, nor why people think FF13 is bad.

Backwards bias(sour grapes so to speak) is just as bad as "nostalgia bias". If FF6/7/8/9 had been released today(by that, I mean we imagine that it wasn't released in the original format), with the same story(minus writing errors, and more general plot polish like the newer games), and the same gameplay, but with the production values of todays games(FF13 level graphics, sound quality, voice-acting), I think it would still probably be consider one of the best jrpgs ever made. I seriously doubt people would consider FF13 to be even close.

That's what most people mean when they point to newer Final Fantasies as being crap. Their only redeeming quality is that they are of current generation quality, and riding partly on a tried and tested formula, and partly on the good repuation of previous games.
I.E They are good in being average and of this generation.

The thing that sets the earlier FF games appart(most of all FF7, even by todays standards), is the leap they took.
Not just in terms of graphics and sound, but by bringing with it all the experience and aspects that was good with the previous games as well, and adding unto the experience with extra interactive gameplay elements, and more content in general.

FF10,12,13, however, all tried to a certain degree to start anew. Change stuff around, and re-envision the franchise. This is always a risk. I agree that it can be good to try a route like that, but it should never be done just for the sake of doing so, which is what it seemed SE did.
The irony of it all is that, as far as I know, there was never a large outcry for renovation in the FF franchise prior to the time where they actually started changing stuff(FF10 - At least FF10 didn't completely sh*t itself like FF12 did).

In the end though,  there really is no excuse to cut away at both gameplay, and content, compared to games over 10 years older. The newer FF games are guilty of this, whether people like it or not, and that's the issue.

Another thing worth mentioning though - A really good game/movie/book doesn't need a sequal to tie it off - And making a sequal to tie of a game that didn't need a sequal as an after-thought, is even worse.
As far as I'm concerned, that was the main reason why the "Squaresoft FF" franchise didn't have sequals.

Good sequals are made(in most cases), because the original was made with the sequal in mind.
Sequals should never be released as after-thoughts to satisfy fan-cravings or to cover up faults in the original work.
That simply makes everything seem contrived and shallow - Which is exactly what FF10-2 did - and if I'm not much mistaken, what FF13-2 too.

120

General Discussion / Re: FFXIII?

« on: 2011-09-10 22:55:49 »

Played pretty much all the FF games there are, except some of the never tactics editions, the FF7 spin-offs(because of how the mess with the original storyline and art-style), 11(P2P mmo's don't sit well with me) and the Crystal Chronicals series, and Legends/Saga or whatever name they go by these days.

If I had to rate them:
FF1-3 - Great by the standards of its time - shait by todays standards, all rank pretty much the same in my eyes.
FF4 - The first FF game to have a story and character development worth talking about. A good game.
FF5 - Took a step backwards in terms of story and character development, but was a good game all the same.
FF6 - Great game. I'd probably rank this is high as 7, if it wasn't for the poorer graphics, and sometimes
messy exploration elements.
FF7 - The best game in the series. Was groundbreaking in its time. Good, in many ways, even by todays standard,
if we ignore poor translation, dated graphics and dated sound.
FF8 - Very good, but took a step back in terms of story and characters, and contrived combat/magic system. Kept everything else that was good though, and improved on sound and graphics.
FF9 - Very good. Took a step up from FF8 in terms of story and characters, but I felt it tried to hard to play on nostalgia of fanbase, by it's return to nes/snes era style, which never really sat well with me to begin with. Magic system slighly annoying, and the encounter rates unbearable.
FF10 - Great. Sound and graphics, top notch. Story and character development was great too, even if I disliked much of the cast. The combat/magic system was great, the only one a really enjoyed since FF7. Took a great step back in terms of mini-games/additional gameplay elements, and in terms of exploration though.
FF12 - Good. It was a good rpg, it just wasn't a good FF game. Difuse, and unengaging story. Next to no character progression. Bland soundtrack. Great graphics though, and the gameplay was ok.

FF tactics - Great game. Although, as a strategy rpg, I think it falls short compared to Vandal Hearts in all departments except for the class system. It also has some major balancing issue.

Personally, I though FF13 was ok.
It ranks the same way FF12 did to me - namely, ok as a game, but shait as FF-game.
If they'd put another name on the cover, I'd probably go "Well, this is ok". The cover however, says Final Fantasy, and that raises the bar. Unfortunately, it raised the bar above the quality of the game.

Loved the graphics, and thought the story was ok. The characters, although I didn't much like any of them, where believable in a sense, which I though was a breath of fresh air considering how often characters in Jrpgs, IMO are often completely out of touch with how real people would act given their scenarios. So a small pluss for the writing, which is a step forward compared to the non-existent character development in FF12.
Finally, the soundtrack was ok.

That's all the positive I can say for the game really.

As for the negative:

Gameplay-wise it was shit.
The linearity destroyed any sense of grand avdenture that FF games have always tried to give off.
Combined with the lack of minigames/extra scenarios(like the FF7 bike scenario, snow board, submarine etc),
npc interaction, and town/world-map exploration, any time spendt on the non-battle portion of the game was rendered extremely boring, and made into a vacous process that served no other purpose but giving us a pretty "loading screen" on the way to the next battle.

Now, if the story was more than "just ok", and the battle system was completely awesome, then I might not have cared all that much. That isn't the case however.

The battle system was very pretty to look at, but the fact that you only control one character at the time, makes the game feel extremely restrictive and limited in terms of strategical aspects as compared to the earlier FF games.
The AI contolled partners aspect, further pulls it down. If I wanted to program A.I's and have a computer do my gaming for me, I wouldn't be gaming in the first place - I'd be in robot engineering.

The last grudge is how short the game is, and how due to its linearity and combat centered nature, it has less to no replay value. Rather than paying todays prices for a game(and rpg no less), that only lasts for 10-20 hours, of which there is no point in going through several times, I'd rather buy something else altogether.

But all in all, even with this gripe - just for the graphics, the soundtrack, and the story, I'm still temped to say that the game warrants a single playthrough. Even more so, if it wasn't named Final Fantasy.
However, it is a FF game, and by that note, a poor one at that.

The thing that provokes me the most though, is how "easy"(it might take a long time, but it's far from impossible) it would be to make the game much better.
Add some towns and npc interaction. Add something similar to a world map, with some exploration elements.
Putt in some mini-games or additional gameplay elements to break up the pace and liven up the gameplay formula.
Get Nobuo to work on the soundtrack.

Had they done that, I'd probably rate the game that much higher. They didn't, and that in my mind, lowers my opinion of the game, and the creators that much more.

Now, with Xenoblade, and The Last Story(arguably one of the best Jrpg since FF10, and IMO better than most, even counted psx/ps2 era), it just struck me how much square-enix has screwed over the franchise.
As much as I want a FF7 remake - I wouldn't want one made by these jokers.

121

Troubleshooting / Re: Some questions regarding battle-scenes.

« on: 2011-09-03 19:01:38 »

I figured it out. The best way was to cut out the black areas and save as 32bit. I'm on my way again. Thanks a lot.

122

Troubleshooting / Re: Some questions regarding battle-scenes.

« on: 2011-09-03 17:52:29 »

Change the color to true black.
The FF7 engine interprets solid black as transparent.

True black? Would that be, standard black as the black you start out with when opening a new document?
I always use that colour, but it doesn't work very well.

Save as 32bit, that's what the Team Avalanche files are saved as, see if that makes any difference.

I'll try this. But all battle scene PNG's I've seen so far, tend to be 24 bit. Oh well...

I believe the correct format for these textures is 8bit rgb.

EDIT:
I made the background transparent and cut out the black areas.
Then I saved it as an 8bit rgb PNG.
It worked just fine in the game with transparency.

Yeah, I thought that to be the problem. The only problem is, that when I made it 8bit, it simply wasn't read by the game at all, and it reverted to the original texture.

When you put a 24 bit png, in the mod battle folder, a reference file is made in the mod cache folder.
When I made an 8 bit png, nothing even appeared in the cache, so I'm guessing there is something with aalis driver(or very possibly something else) that stops it from responding to any 8 bit pngs in the battle folder.

If you somehow made that work, I'd be very interested in knowing more details about the format of that file.

123

Troubleshooting / Re: Some questions regarding battle-scenes.

« on: 2011-09-01 23:08:40 »

Well, it's hardly revolutionairy. In terms of texture quality etc, the stuff I'm working on now is still sh*t compared to those working on the actual battle-scene overhauls.

I'm having a new problem though:
(borrowed picture from another thread)


See the black stuff in the background - Well, I'm having issues with this too, and I can't seem to find any help on how to make this work.

There is supposed to be transparency in the texture(STAGE09_T03_00), but it seems that the moment I make it a 24bit png, the transparency is lost. Now, I did however try to "put it back in", but upon saving the file, and putting it in the battle folder, it seems that the game reads the transparent parts of the file as being white, rather than transparent I.E it ends up looking like it does it the picture, just white instead of black.

124

Troubleshooting / Re: Some questions regarding battle-scenes.

« on: 2011-09-01 19:00:29 »

And once again, bumping my own thread.

I figured it out. Much searching and I'm finally able to extract, edit and reinplant the textures for the battle scenes, and developed a method for doing it all fairly quick and efficiently. I'll post some result later, after I've played some more around with the textures and found a result I'm happy with.

125

Troubleshooting / Re: Some questions regarding battle-scenes.

« on: 2011-09-01 13:02:44 »

Sorry to bump my own thread - But I've looked around some, and can't seem to find any good answer(or maybe I just suck at using the search function):

Is there some way of extracting each individual battle scene texture files and converting them to pngs?
I'm looking around and it looks to me like I could use the unlgp for getting into the battle file, but this is sorta heavy and new to me. I might be getting everything wrong here.

Any feedback at all, would be welcome. I got my hands on one of the original textures, from one of the other battlescene threads, and played around with it - I'm fairly satisfied with the results, so if I could do the same to the rest of the textures, I'm pretty confident things would look to my liking.