Author Topic: [N/A] Test and add OGG audio loops - FixLoop (v1.3) (Read 15978 times)

DLPB_ · « **on:** 2017-07-18 02:57:32 »

It's my birthday today, but I seem to do things backwards... so I am the one handing out presents.

Supports LoopStart and LoopEnd tags (as will my FF7 dll - and the next version of RaW for ff8). Any issues, let me know.

I created FixLoop to help me create the audio files for FF7 - which required precise loops. With this, you can use "GoTo" and see how your loops sound - whether there is any popping/clicking and so on. It will also play audio files perfectly, something most players fail at with small audio files. Many formats can be played- but only OGG loops can be saved from the program. It isn't recommended (as far as I am aware) to use MP3 for loops anyway.

See the help file for more information.

Download 1.3 here

Ansem · « **Reply #1 on:** 2017-07-18 12:48:36 »

So, you're saying this could even properly play back samples that are shorter than 0.01s? If so, this could definitely make my life easier, when mono support is complete, of course.

Also, happy birthday, for whatever a few words on the internet are worth.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #2 on:** 2017-07-18 16:54:28 »

0.01s is so small as to not even be a proper sound. Thats 441 samples. Even the smallest blip in ff7 has 1700ish. What on earth ate you trying to play

Ansem · « **Reply #3 on:** 2017-07-19 00:37:03 »

Quote from: DLPB on 2017-07-18 16:54:28

0.01s is so small as to not even be a proper sound. Thats 441 samples. Even the smallest blip in ff7 has 1700ish. What on earth ate you trying to play

Eh, I'm not actually doing anything FF7-related. I'm making a custom chaingun sound for another game I like to mod.

Imagine a chaingun that fires every 0.03 seconds, and each discharge calls a sound effect. It's quickly going to clog things up, and likely prevent other sfx from being played at the same time; this is very much unwanted for 3D sound. The more efficient way to do it is to create a very short sample that can be looped to give the illusion of an insanely fast fire rate. It leaves room for other sfx, and saves that tiny bit of sound bank memory, which is awfully limited in the game in question.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #4 on:** 2017-07-19 00:43:29 »

Assuming the game you are trying to mod supports playback of streams that small, this program should be able to play them properly and help you. Check it out for me and let me know.

Ansem · « **Reply #5 on:** 2017-07-19 01:23:50 »

Heh, it works like a charm.

Although I did remember the sound's length a bit wrong. It's more like 0.05s.

Curious thing, though. It states that the wav has 659 samples, yet Audacity says it has 1319. Audacity, however, produces only silence on playback because its handling of short sounds is so bad.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #6 on:** 2017-07-19 01:37:23 »

The sample reporting is off at the moment, which is why loops will only work correctly with stereo ogg (ogg and mp3 don't use a bitdepth - it's meaningless there - but mono and stereo affect the calculation with bass, as it reports bytes not samples - until I convert) until I calculate it properly.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #7 on:** 2017-07-19 04:02:04 »

Version 1.1 is here

Let me know how you get on.

Ansem · « **Reply #8 on:** 2017-07-19 13:08:28 »

It works pretty much exactly as expected now. It even notices the tiniest pops and clicks that Audacity doesn't.

Out of curiosity, what is the "With Reverb" option meant for?

DLPB_ · « **Reply #9 on:** 2017-07-19 13:26:35 »

It adds a reverb effect to the audio. Just an extra option - but I am using it to test an optional increased reverb with ff7 pc, since psx seems to use even more than Mednafen outputs.

When I get round to it, the next version will allow you to override loopstart and end tags - and use ones you manually input in the main window.

Ansem · « **Reply #10 on:** 2017-07-19 13:36:36 »

Oh, right, yes. The PSX Reverb is very elusive even to this day and age. There is no emulator yet that can replicate it accurately, even though many claim so - in reality, they are using Pete's Reverb, which is the next best thing, but not entirely accurate.

Apparently, once PCSX2 has completed the support for PSX emulation, it will be the first one to generate a reverb that closely resembles the effect produced by the real hardware.

Kaldarasha · « **Reply #11 on:** 2017-07-19 15:39:28 »

https://github.com/adam-becker/psxact

I have no idea how much this emulator is capable to play games yet, but the creator aims for 100 percent hardware emulation.

Covarr · « **Reply #12 on:** 2017-07-20 16:35:30 »

Quote from: Kaldarasha on 2017-07-19 15:39:28

https://github.com/adam-becker/psxact

I have no idea how much this emulator is capable to play games yet, but the creator aims for 100 percent hardware emulation.

Mednafen and XEBRA aim for that too, and though neither achieves it, they're both much farther along.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #13 on:** 2017-07-21 17:26:15 »

I haven't finished with this yet. Doing a bit of work on it. Adding support also for editing the points and also writing the tags - which should make things even easier.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #14 on:** 2017-07-24 06:54:03 »

Name changed because this now fixes / saves loops. I've added various other options. Next release will have a readme. For now, please back up any file before using the Save buttons, as I am not 100% confident yet. Let me know if there are any issues. Note that when a Loop value is -1, the loop tag (LOOPSTART or LOOPEND) will be deleted from the file.

See main post for the link.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #15 on:** 2017-07-26 01:31:35 »

v1.3 released. First major release. Comes with help file.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #16 on:** 2017-07-27 21:56:04 »

There is an audible click with effects that are a little over 500ms (and likely multiple of certain numbers). This seems to be a bug with bass_fx / bass audio buffer and I have notified the author about it.

Grimmy · « **Reply #17 on:** 2017-07-28 00:51:07 »

So this seems very helpful for people trying to put together quick looping oggs for ffvii, but how exactly is this better that a real audio editing program like audacity. Audacity already does all this and more and is a legit Audio editing program. This seems like a sloppy way to avoid learning how to do that. umm... sorry.

--Maybe it is intended to work better with your own at this moment unreleased custom dll, but even then just doing it properly in an audio editing program seems the way to go.. again sorry.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #18 on:** 2017-07-28 01:22:16 »

If it wasn't useful, I can assure you I wouldn't have made it. As the person above (and me) states, Audacity and Audition both fail with very small samples. They won't play them properly - and Audition has issues even loading proper wave forms sometimes. And this is dedicated not only to repeatedly playing and tweaking the loop point, but also saving the tags (which it can do instantly with a touch of a button). I don't think Audacity does that - Audition certainly doesn't.

FixLoop is a very simple tool for easily checking that the loops are perfect - and it's meant to be used WITH another editing program. When you are checking loop points of 500+ effect files, you'll find normal editing software is time consuming and annoying - as I did

Also, Audition and Audacity largely suck compared to Extreme Sample Converter 3, because they require manual looping. The latter can do it programmatically... it's nearly impossible to do FF7 effects without it. In fact, quite a few FF7 and FF8 musics will need redoing because FixLoop has already identified problems (some of those problems were masked because vgmstream has a built in method for smoothing the loop point. Bass.dll gives you it as-is.). On your point about it being easier for novices, that's also correct. Why do so many programs have to make it a rocket science?

In the future, I am hoping to add an option to FixLoop to get it to find the nearest zero amplitude point.

edit. I also need to add the LOOPLENGTH tag, since it seems to be the standard. I'll sort it another time. Or maybe not? Do all programs accept LoopEnd without the need for LoopLength?

Grimmy · « **Reply #19 on:** 2017-07-28 01:37:24 »

Quote from: DLPB on 2017-07-28 01:22:16

And this is dedicated not only to repeatedly playing and tweaking the loop point, but also saving the tags (which it can do instantly with a touch of a button)

Audacity does these things super fast and easy, but hey whatever floats your boat. We all gotta have something to eat up our days.

--another way to put it is if someone edits audio without looking at the wave form--- then it shouldn't be heard.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #20 on:** 2017-07-28 01:43:04 »

There is that, but Audacity certainly didn't help me with FF7 effects. Too many of them, too many times failed to play them properly, not listed nice and simple. And all of them apart from Extreme Sample Converter 3 couldn't do the job at all, because I think they all rely on manual points. It doesn't do as good a job as ESC3 anyway - because that always finds zero points. So I used that with my own program. I dunno if others will find it easier my way, but I definitely did.

Grimmy · « **Reply #21 on:** 2017-07-28 02:01:08 »

Yeah you have to click find zero points in audacity or use the keyboard shortcut. I had to do that when I made all my ff0-X Battle and Fanfare musics Randomizer and clicking/popping was not an option. One of the most important things I learned is that it is vital to see the waveform before finding the zero crossings for matching purposes. Like I said this tool will be great for casual modders to put together their own looping musics without any real learning curve. It fixes the problem of like say, trying to hex edit a save before Black Chocobo came around. Now it's super easy. So that's pretty cool.

-This tool is very useful. I'm looking forward to using it to make my own sound mods. Thanks for explaining it.