Author Topic: [FF7PC-98] The Reunion (OLD THREAD, SAVED FOR POSTERITY) (Read 1265613 times)

knightsoftheround · « **Reply #1825 on:** 2013-07-12 14:26:06 »

Quote from: DLPB on 2013-07-12 14:13:50

This first bit must have been looked at now 10 times... it's just so hard to get it to sound natural when there is so much exposition so fast... not to mention the original Japanese sounds clunky.

Code: [Select]
District 1,Station -------------------------------------------------- Biggs “Wow! You're from Soldier all right!”{NEW} “…Hard to believe one of theirs has joined a group like Avalanche!” -------------------------------------------------- Jessie “…Soldier? But they're the enemy…” -------------------------------------------------- Jessie “What's he doing with us in Avalanche?” -------------------------------------------------- Biggs “Hang on,Jessie, he quit Shin-Ra.” -------------------------------------------------- Biggs “I didn't catch your name…” -------------------------------------------------- {CLOUD} “…{CLOUD}.” -------------------------------------------------- Biggs “{CLOUD},eh? I'm…” -------------------------------------------------- {CLOUD} “I'm not interested in names. Once this job's done,I'm outta here.” -------------------------------------------------- “The hell you all doin'!? I told ya…! Never move in a group!” -------------------------------------------------- “Our target's Mako Reactor 1. Meet up at the bridge in front of it.” -------------------------------------------------- “Ex-Soldier,huh? Don't trust ya!” -------------------------------------------------- {BARRET} “You can run by holdin' {PURPLE}[Cancel]{WHITE} with the {PURPLE}[DIRECTIONS]{WHITE}. Keep up!”
That's about as good as I can make it. I've had to cheat in 3 places:

Japanese is more "Aren't they the enemy" which is just something Jessie would never say (because she knows who the enemy is... i mean, there'd be a problem wouldn't there if she didn't even know that hahaha) and sounds stupid.

Japanese uses "joined an Anti-Shin-Ra group like Avalanche" The original English also missed this off because it sounds clunky. The Shin-Ra connection is made elsewhere anyway.

Japanese has extra line after "He's quit Shin-Ra" which is "He's with us now"
but that simply doesn't work.

“What's he doing with us in Avalanche?” < She knows he is with them. She's just said so.

“Hang on,Jessie,
he quit Shin-Ra.
He's with us now.”

Looks wrong.

Hmm, the 'aren't they' makes a sort of sense to me, but it's really intonation based and when you don't have voice acting I think your fudge is a better solution. I think it's definitely one of those Japanese speech quirks (based on the anime I've watched, and since VII is a pop-culture thing the comparisons can be drawn even though you can't really compare anime to real Japan) and while the translation is a little fudged I think it's good on the localization front. People would probably get it, but playing it on the safe side is a good idea. The same actually goes for the repetitiveness and Jessie seeming a little out of it - it's a Japanese speech quirk (that I only ever see on female characters, actually!) and your localization choice is a good one.

Also, interesting to find out that Barrett's decision to go "WELL I'M GOING WITH YOU" feels as random in the original Japanese as in the English game. I always thought maybe it seemed to fit a little better instead of being blatantly ALSO NOW YOU HAVE TWO CHARACTERS. XD

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1826 on:** 2013-07-12 14:56:21 »

The thing is, in what circumstance would a member of an anti-Shin-Ra organisation be saying "aren't they?" Can you imagine a conversation with a terrorist member like that? It just doesn't work in natural speech. I mean, it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that it could happen, but it sounds very weird.

In natural event, if a member of the opposite side joined your group, you'd say "What the hell is he doing with us?" Not "Soldier aren't they the enemy? What's he doing with us?" It's there to let the audience/player know that Soldier is the enemy., but I think my way achieves that while making the speech sound natural.

knightsoftheround · « **Reply #1827 on:** 2013-07-12 16:23:59 »

Quote from: DLPB on 2013-07-12 14:56:21

The thing is, in what circumstance would a member of an anti-Shin-Ra organisation be saying "aren't they?" Can you imagine a conversation with a terrorist member like that? It just doesn't work in natural speech. I mean, it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that it could happen, but it sounds very weird.

In natural event, if a member of the opposite side joined your group, you'd say "What the hell is he doing with us?" Not "Soldier aren't they the enemy? What's he doing with us?" It's there to let the audience/player know that Soldier is the enemy., but I think my way achieves that while making the speech sound natural.

The way I interpret it is a combination of lack of confidence in speech (rather IC for Jessie, who basically spends her entire time in the game tripping over herself XD) and disbelief. Sort of a "Wait, aren't they the enemy? What the hell?" Of course, I totally agree with your choices, just explaining why I think it can work.

And it flows better your way, most definitely. Giving that I've played this part of the game the most comparing it to my crystal clear memories of the start of the game (as opposed to the slightly fuzzier bits for later in game) my jaw is dropping. This retranslation really is going to be amazing. I'm never going to be able to go back to the original localization. XDD

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1828 on:** 2013-07-12 16:41:08 »

Let's hope so... the work involved for this final revision is really ridiculous. Positioning windows and so forth, correcting more issues.

Dracconis69 · « **Reply #1829 on:** 2013-07-13 01:25:37 »

So may I ask how close we are to seeing the finale?

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1830 on:** 2013-07-13 01:39:10 »

Quote from: Dracconis69 on 2013-07-13 01:25:37

So may I ask how close we are to seeing the finale?

There is no way to tell. Probably weeks. To complete the 3rd revision will take days. Thousands of boxes need realigning. That's just one thing. Expect it when you see it.

Salk · « **Reply #1831 on:** 2013-07-13 04:57:34 »

"Aren't they the enemy?" sounds right to me. It's a rhetorical question.

spy__dragon · « **Reply #1832 on:** 2013-07-15 10:16:10 »

Sorry to be annoying again, DLPB, but I can't send you PM.
But, could we use the videos which you edited?
The videos are thoses:
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=10980.0

For example, bike.avi to change "Midgal's" for "Midgar".
We want to use in our retranslation, psx version, we were able to edit the videos which contains subtitles and we put other subtitles, with after effects.
Here the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUH5gDKtWa4

I hope you give permission to use your restoration videos, I hope you use some restoration videos, or restorate again in the
reunion, some videos for example bike.

Regards, Tony.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1833 on:** 2013-07-15 10:29:25 »

Yeah, use them by all means! They aren't as good as the 2012 re-release ones but they do correct things as you said

Template · « **Reply #1834 on:** 2013-07-15 10:51:57 »

Dan's Sqlogo movie (plays just after the opening eidoslogo, herd of wild chocobos runs across the old Squaresoft logo) is way way better than the rerelease one. It's 10 seconds long but it's one of my favorites. Carry on.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1835 on:** 2013-07-16 22:24:32 »

This box positioning is a REAL ball ache. I've just finished the tool to edit the touphscript text files and it's pretty much turned into a custom tool purely for the Menu Overhaul due to all the nonsense I've had to take into account. Even then, though, another tool is going to be needed. The first tool allows you to position boxes in real time. The next tool must allow me to do what loveless does and resize boxes in an editor. And still a 3rd tool may be needed to batch position the hundreds of "Obtained" dialogues for items and so forth to centre screen, with Y position 8.

The problem with the editor for window sizes is that I don't know how to chop up my font textures so it looks like in-game, and even worse, the work involved in making such a tool is pretty big.

The only other way is to simply go through every scene in the game twice making corrections as I go. Any way I choose to do it means further work. It's checkmate for me.

Rundas · « **Reply #1836 on:** 2013-07-17 00:33:14 »

I wish I knew how to do things and stuff, but fortunately I have people to dedicate 3/4 of their lives to these things like you

Knuxson · « **Reply #1837 on:** 2013-07-17 05:28:08 »

Hello,

First, I want to say I really enjoy what you have done here. I do have a question about the retranslation, though. I picked the American English option, and it seems like every word that has an 'ise' type ending uses a 'z' even when that is not the standard way to spell the word in American English. I read your description on the Beacause forum page about how using 'ize' is apparently an acceptable way to spell these words, but then you went on to say that, regardless, 'ise' would be the preferred way. I am just wondering if using 'ize' on all these words is intentional, or if maybe you are somewhat unfamiliar with the American way of spelling these. Unfortunately, we are not very consistent with it and some words use 'ize' and some don't. For instance, specific examples I saw so far while playing through FF7 was the spell "Rize," which would normally be spelled "Rise," or "Surprize," which would normally be "Surprise." However, words that ARE spelled with a 'z' are words like "recognize" or "memorize."

I am just curious as to the reasons why these certain words are spelled this way in the restranslation. In America, using the word "Rize" in an English paper would cost you points because it would be considered incorrect. It isn't really a big deal, but it is a little jarring every time I see it. Thanks in advance, and forgive me if this has already been discussed previously.

Rundas · « **Reply #1838 on:** 2013-07-17 05:56:36 »

The version you have is very old and incomplete. All this has been fixed in the new release.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1839 on:** 2013-07-17 07:27:29 »

What he said. Wait until release of this.

http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=11649.msg202063#msg202063

knightsoftheround · « **Reply #1840 on:** 2013-07-17 23:15:21 »

Quote from: DLPB on 2013-07-17 07:27:29

What he said. Wait until release of this.

http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=11649.msg202063#msg202063

I am far more amused by the linked explanation that I probably should be. XD (But I totally get it, goodness knows you've worn out several records having to repeat yourself during this project.

)

Yarow12 · « **Reply #1841 on:** 2013-07-19 16:08:53 »

Don't forget to backup your data online and offline.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1842 on:** 2013-07-19 18:42:58 »

Quote from: Yarow12 on 2013-07-19 16:08:53

Don't forget to backup your data online and offline.

Don't worry, I back all my data up in 4 places including blu-ray, data pen, and online.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1843 on:** 2013-07-22 22:52:04 »

I was hoping the 3rd revision would be a doddle, but it\s actually the hardest when it comes to moving boxes, and also correcting dialogue to sound more natural. But once this is done, it's pretty much done. Onwards and upwards.

knightsoftheround · « **Reply #1844 on:** 2013-07-24 22:45:57 »

'Doddle' mean something like the American usage of terms like 'breeze' or 'piece of cake' I take it?

I didn't even think of the box issues when I thought you were in the home stretch. Probably should have considering you had to completely rebuild the menus.

Got no problem with waiting though! Wish I could help, but again, me =/= coding expert. XD

Kaldarasha · « **Reply #1845 on:** 2013-07-24 23:11:27 »

Quote from: mugenginga on 2013-07-24 22:45:57

'Doddle' mean something like the American usage of terms like 'breeze' or 'piece of cake' I take it?

I didn't even think of the box issues when I thought you were in the home stretch. Probably should have considering you had to completely rebuild the menus.

Got no problem with waiting though! Wish I could help, but again, me =/= coding expert. XD

Well, you could improve the chocobo race interface...

The High minigame could need some rework, too.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1846 on:** 2013-07-24 23:11:51 »

Yeah doddle is same thing thing

My mass text changer for "obtained" dialogues did its job... and my other program for moving boxes is working a treat (will release new version soon). All that's left is to head north, the .... no... all that's left is for me to make something that can edit the box height, width and actual text at run time... would save me a lot of messing going over the scene twice. So that's my next task.

BloodShot · « **Reply #1847 on:** 2013-07-28 23:20:20 »

So will the release have some of the profanity back in the game? I don't mind things like cid's censored swearing but in the PSX release Barret cursed quite a bit, and on the PC version they censored words like shit and I feel like that changed some of the characters a bit.

DLPB_ · « **Reply #1848 on:** 2013-07-28 23:35:39 »

The profanity is limited to how harsh the Japanese is, and the scene in question. Nearly all swearing in FF7 was meant to be mild (let's be real here, the game was not a 15 or 18 or even 12.). There are some exceptions. In the whole game, we used Fuck once (Cid). I have been very careful not to add in swearing where it is not merited, or where the Japanese did not call for it. Most references in the original game using $%^%&^ are ridiculous, and usually only "damn" or similar meanings were intended. Where swearing is used, it is uncensored.

Mild curses are like

Jackass, crap, damn, god damn, hell,

moderate:

Shit, bullshit, asshole (for example), bastard

Strong:

Fuck (1 occurrence).

A common mistake with fan translations is to start placing in silly levels of swearing because it can... and not because it enhances the dialogue. Using harsher swear words sparingly actually makes their impact all the greater when they do get used. The use of fuck for example will hit home in the one occasion it is used, and would have no effect at all if it had been plastered all over. Just like HD graphics and cutscenes, the usage of swear words must come with responsibility and be used to enhance the existing material, not saturate it.

Rundas · « **Reply #1849 on:** 2013-07-28 23:37:08 »

Yeah, you get the sense that the random characters were there for effect more than actual censorship.