Qhimm.com Forums
Off-topic forums => Completely Unrelated => Topic started by: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-03-30 18:32:40
-
After the dark days of Labour spending £5billion per year on IT (to sound sexy), the Conservative government has decided to review IT policy with the hope of lowering costs. Their IT chief says that the government could save money by not using Windows and going open source. However, he has also expressed concerns that "open source" software might be more easily "hacked" than Microsoft's products, and has said that the government should use more Apple products, which he uses at home.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12905303
Better get rid of all my open source software; it might get hacked!
-
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
yea my linux boxes get hacked all the time.. ::)
i think we all know how i feel about OSes by now.. so no need to reiterate.
-
The concern is that with the source readily available, new exploits would be easier to find. In practice, this is not really an issue, but it's also not an entirely illogical conclusion.
-
The concern is that with the source readily available, new exploits would be easier to find. In practice, this is not really an issue, but it's also not an entirely illogical conclusion.
It is, however, a conclusion that betrays a deep lack of knowledge. Anyone can see that open source software is generally more secure than proprietary stuff. But then, our government still uses IE6, so maybe they disagree.
-
Windows is more expensive then mac? Windows is more secure then linux or mac? Bah, i want some of what he is smoking.
-
No computer or OS is totally secure. The mac fanboys should give it a rest :P If someone is a capable hacker or software writer, they can find ways to hack or to create a problem. It doesn't help when you have a government who leave unencrypted laptops lying about (yeah it was labour, but they are all as bad).
-
Windows is more expensive then mac? Windows is more secure then linux or mac? Bah, i want some of what he is smoking.
He used to work for Tony Blair. Go figure. Also,
more...then
(http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/5497/1231698875780.jpg)
-
Hah, just stating facts.
From cheapest to most expensive: Linux (OS is free, same hardware as windows), Windows, Mac (Same hardware as windows PC but large markup, plus i doubt a government is going to start using hackintosh's)
Most secure: Very debatable position, none are really all that secure, Windows is just hacked more because the majority of people use it. Linux and OSX are more secure in the fact that most malware/virii are written for windows.
-
Hah, just stating facts.
From cheapest to most expensive: Linux (OS is free, same hardware as windows), Windows, Mac (Same hardware as windows PC but large markup, plus i doubt a government is going to start using hackintosh's)
Most secure: Very debatable position, none are really all that secure, Windows is just hacked more because the majority of people use it. Linux and OSX are more secure in the fact that most malware/virii are written for windows.
You misunderstand. I was referring to your use of "then" in a comparative clause.
(http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/1153/grammarnazibycoloration.gif)
Also, Linux is not always the cheapest. Total cost of ownership.
-
Ah. Yes. Well continue than.
-
Ah. Yes. Well continue than.
In this case dude, i believe it would be then.
-
I was trying to be humorous.
-
I was trying to be humorous.
If your trying to be humerous than you should really make it more obvious.
-
honestly I think the italic was pretty obvious
at least i got it :evil:
-
If your trying to be humerous than you should really make it more obvious.
It should always be obvious when people are trying to be a bone in the upper arm.
-
As someone whose organization sells software to the public sector, this stuff really doesn't surprise me, unfortunately.
That said, I *am* surprised that they'd go for something as rigid as the Apple platform. If there's one thing Local Authorities like to whinge about, it's software not being completely re-written from scratch for their specific purposes. If it isn't completely bespoke, they'll stonewall you, insisting you've no appreciation of their needs (translation: you are threatening us, and saying you don't understand is the easiest way we can mark you as Alien), before throwing away 3x your bill on flinty-eyed Capgemini types who were only ever going to stick a new shell on an existing product anyway...
le sigh
-
I hate our government. If they pick Apple, I'll hate them even more.
-
Sorry about that everyone! Disregard my blatant spamming of your forums, turns out what I was advertising is complete shit anyways. In fact you should probably boycott my product if possible. kthxbai
-
There's a report post button for a reason.
I've reported both posts anyway.
-
As someone whose organization sells software to the public sector, this stuff really doesn't surprise me, unfortunately.
That said, I *am* surprised that they'd go for something as rigid as the Apple platform. If there's one thing Local Authorities like to whinge about, it's software not being completely re-written from scratch for their specific purposes. If it isn't completely bespoke, they'll stonewall you, insisting you've no appreciation of their needs (translation: you are threatening us, and saying you don't understand is the easiest way we can mark you as Alien), before throwing away 3x your bill on flinty-eyed Capgemini types who were only ever going to stick a new shell on an existing product anyway...
le sigh
Maybe the government wants some bespoke software made by Apple? This will cost £9001million and will just werk.
-
.
-
I use Linux Mint, which is basically Linux for kids and grandmas
You hear that, Bosola-kun? ;D
-
.
-
I would be using Ubuntu Studio but I made the mistake of purchasing a very obscure graphics card with no Linux drivers for it, so technically I can run it in a tiny little box on my 1080p monitor but I am good on that. As for Mac being more secure than Linux, it varies depending on the context your speaking in. If your speaking generally, then hell no, the less popular your operating system, in this context, the better, for obvious reasons. Now as far as if their was an organized attack on a specific organization using Linux. Its still pretty up in the air because with Linux you can build your own OS so, theoretically, with a super legit IT squad, you could program an OS that's a million times more secure than either Mac or Windows. Either way Linux is usually always the clear winner in more aspects than just security, I just think some governments are becoming too obsessed with spending money that they never had to waste, to realize this simple truth.
also Jenova's Witness I tried to PM you but it doesn't look like your avatar is showing up. Of course maybe this is just me ;D
-
You hear that, Bosola-kun? ;D
MINT IS A LEGITIMATE GNU/LINUX DISTRIBUTION! >:(
-
Won't there be more of a reason for hackers to start attempting to Hack Mac's if a government makes it their standard machines?
-
MINT IS A LEGITIMATE GNU/LINUX DISTRIBUTION! >:(
Mint is Ubuntu with a green theme.
-
Mint is Ubuntu with a green theme.
Mint is Ubuntu where everything works out of the box like it should.
Also, green > brown, so Ubuntu with a green theme would still be an improvement.
-
Also, green > brown, so Ubuntu with a green theme would still be an improvement.
I never said that wasn't an improvement. I'm not sure what the devs were thinking when they decided on Ubuntu's colour scheme; colours reminiscent of cave paintings do not convey the idea of cutting edge technology.
-
well I've never tried Ubuntu but Ubuntu Studio has a pretty nice out of box look and feel IMO 8-)
-
well I've never tried Ubuntu but Ubuntu Studio has a pretty nice out of box look and feel IMO 8-)
Is that the "I wanna look like a cheap Mac rip-off" version?
-
no not really, there's no dock or anything like that. Other than the different theme, it comes with Blender, Gimp and a host of other GNU media production software. If anything its more similar to windows since it has a "taskbar" with a "start" menu at the top of the screen
-
i hope you all know how much lulz i get from this thread.
-
i hope you all know how much lulz i get from this thread.
I imagine it's equal to the amount of lulz I get when I hear "year of the Linux desktop".
-
I imagine it's equal to the amount of lulz I get when I hear "year of the Linux desktop".
something like that.. :D
-
round of lulz for everyone on kudistos :-D
-
I would just like to point out one place where a *NIX system has a huge advantage
I need to type the location of my music on Windows: "C:\Documents And Settings\Cupcake\Local Data\My Music"
*NIX: "/home/Cupcake/Music" or "/users/Matt/Music" for OS X
Which one looks easier, and less cumbersome to type to you?
-
I would just like to point out one place where a *NIX system has a huge advantage
I need to type the location of my music on Windows: "C:\Documents And Settings\Cupcake\Local Data\My Music"
*NIX: "/home/Cupcake/Music" or "/users/Matt/Music" for OS X
Which one looks easier, and less cumbersome to type to you?
Windows made some improvements in this regard (7 for sure, Vista might have also done this).
Now it's
"C:\Users\Covarr\My Music"
-
Windows made some improvements in this regard (7 for sure, Vista might have also done this).
Now it's
"C:\Users\Covarr\My Music"
Even so, Windows 7 now uses a library system (or at least they call these folders libraries) that I don't care for, and I find Windows Explorer to overcomplicate finding my files, as they more or less have different types of folders, rather than folders and files, get what I mean? While it may work for some, I'm a firm believer that it is not the best way to go about your business, and much prefer the *NIX way of doing things.
-
Windows made some improvements in this regard (7 for sure, Vista might have also done this).
Now it's
"C:\Users\Covarr\My Music"
Akshully, on Windows 7 (XP is an archaic OS from 10 years ago and I'm not sure why people are talking about it) you can just type the name of the library into the explorer navigation bar and it will go there. Type "Music" and you'll go to wherever your music library is. And the libraries can be moved to wherever you want. Mine is in D:\Music. Nice and simple.
Of course, a more gooey-oriented person just presses the Win key and clicks "music".
-
I would just like to point out one place where a *NIX system has a huge advantage
I need to type the location of my music on Windows: "C:\Documents And Settings\Cupcake\Local Data\My Music"
*NIX: "/home/Cupcake/Music" or "/users/Matt/Music" for OS X
Which one looks easier, and less cumbersome to type to you?
You could just lrn2use Windoze and create symbolic links, making your music available for example at \music.
*shrugs*
-
You could just lrn2use Windoze and create symbolic links, making your music available for example at \music.
*shrugs*
...Or use a decent OS that has no need for different types of folders and links, and has a decently laid out file system. Open Source is also another pro to *NIX Operating Systems, imo
-
Since when has Windoze had different types of folders, or has had a need for them?
As for needing links... you do realize that symbolic (and hard) links are originally a feature of *NIX - which you seem to so dearly love - and are heavily used in such systems?
-
...Or use a decent OS that has no need for different types of folders and links, and has a decently laid out file system. Open Source is also another pro to *NIX Operating Systems, imo
So my (main) OS sucks cause it doesn't have different types of folders?! I gotta admit this is one feature I hope never makes it into windows as it sucks! One thing is clear though, the British government is cheap! Windows FTW!
*Runs away*
-
Windows FTW!
I'm sorry but... no :evil:
-
I'm sorry but... no :evil:
For general office use, yes. You do realise that the needs of the government are very different from your needs, right?
MS Office is still the best office suite out there and Windows has a lower total cost of ownership than Linux. Just try teaching thousands of employees to use Linux when they've only just got used to Windows. And try getting some decent support for Linux when you need a problem fixed within minutes.
Macs in offices are obviously retarded and giving an explanation as to why is completely unnecessary.
-
MS Office is still the best office suite out there
ohgoditbosolaagain.jpg
But no. I've always said 'if you need Microsoft Office, you don't need Microsoft Office'. By this, I mean that if your requirements are so high that OpenOffice et al won't do, you'd more likely than not be better off with a premium application. OOWriter not good enough? You probably need Framemaker or Arbortext anyway. OOBase isn't suited to your heavy duty data processing? You likely need a 'true' (eg served) SQL solution. Don't like impress? Ok, fair enough, Impress is crap. But the point still stands.
If the task matters, your organization should be able to shell a couple of grand out on an Adobe suite. If it doesn't, the open source alternative will be more than sufficient. There is no good reason to saddle yourself with mediocre software at moderate cost, except for employees too stupid / helpless / lazy to shift UIs.
-
ohgoditbosolaagain.jpg
But no. I've always said 'if you need Microsoft Office, you don't need Microsoft Office'. By this, I mean that if your requirements are so high that OpenOffice et al won't do, you'd more likely than not be better off with a premium application. OOWriter not good enough? You probably need Framemaker or Arbortext anyway. OOBase isn't suited to your heavy duty data processing? You likely need a 'true' (eg served) SQL solution. Don't like impress? Ok, fair enough, Impress is crap. But the point still stands.
If the task matters, your organization should be able to shell a couple of grand out on an Adobe suite. If it doesn't, the open source alternative will be more than sufficient. There is no good reason to saddle yourself with mediocre software at moderate cost, except for employees too stupid / helpless / lazy to shift UIs.
That last bit undermines your whole argument ;D
-
For general office use, yes. You do realise that the needs if the government are very different from your needs, right?
That explains the "Windows FTW!" Part...
Chances are very good that your employees are used to Windows already from personal experience. The amount they are spending to re-train every employee to become accustom to one "one click" wonder shows an extreme lack of foresight on the part of the British government. Completely ignoring all these facts, its easy to see he is an apple fanboy. Quote:
"I use Apple at home. I know it's not very open but I use it. I love it, it works and I think it is great - I'm Steve Jobs' best customer.
-Ian Watmore
There is very few things I hate in this world, Apple Fanboy's are one of them... They are unable to recognize that the other OS's are great in there own way too. They refuse to believe anything can be greater then apple's OS ever.
I am not going to get into the fact that apple's are brutally more expensive then PC's, with less power.
-
For general office use, yes. You do realise that the needs of the government are very different from your needs, right?
No I didn't realize that :roll:
Anyway, IMO, the real problem lies in computer education and the fact that, as you say, the majority of workers would be too dumb to use Linux. My point wasn't that they should use Linux, but that they should be able to.
If we lived in a more perfect world, and a majority of people actually understood the science behind computers and held the ability to program and debug an application, then I think Linux would be the clear choice in any situation.
however we don't, so for the time being, your right.
-
.
-
Didn't I say that grandmas and childen can use Mint? How hard is it to teach someone to click on "Menu", mouse over to "Office", and click "Abiword" or "Writer" or "Gnumeric" or "Calc"?
Harder than you think. Try dealing with some normal people and see how open they are to using new software where things have different names and are in different places. To them, it's like everything has been translated into Chinese whenever you change an icon.
So you can get decent support for Windows when you have a problem? That's news to me. AFAIK, Microsoft sells software, not support. They have no reason to provide free support for their software.
No, they have no reason to provide free support.
And remember that IT folks who know how to fix Windows issues are far more common and far cheaper than IT folks who know how to fix Linux issues.
There's a forum for Mint here (http://forums.linuxmint.com/), and I have no doubt that if Mint had even 1% of the PC market, they could make money just by providing support via telephone, and maybe have ads play for a minute on the phone before someone answers, and while you're on hold.
I can't see many corporate and government people wanting to rely on a forum. They'll pay big money to have "official" support from "qualified" technicians, even if that support is of a lower standard. The general public hasn't quite come around to the fact that enthusiastic hobbyists often know more about computers than tech monkeys, which is why the Geek Squad makes so much money.
And why do so many Linux aficionados act on the urge to declare every year the "Year of the Linux Desktop"? Maybe if they spent as much time improving Linux as they do pontificating about it, we'd see some more market share.
I think most of those people are joking, but it is true that Linux would be far more usable and far more attractive to the general public if its supporters spent as much time improving it as they do proselytising and asserting the superiority of the command line.
Governments need a secure OS, where finding and installing encrypted email support, biometric or ID card log-ins, and hardware disabling (specifically USB ports), is a trivial matter, and a complete office suite.
British government workers tend to leave unencrypted USB sticks on trains. I don't think they'll be able to "do" security, whatever OS they have.
-
I think most of those people are joking, but it is true that Linux would be far more usable and far more attractive to the general public if its supporters spent as much time improving it as they do proselytising and asserting the superiority of the command line.
Comment of the year, I love linux I just don't want to deal with typing large stings of info out every time I want to install/use something :(. So I dual boot instead...though I am never on linux, even though it was a pain to get going.
-
.
-
No, they have no reason to provide free support.
And remember that IT folks who know how to fix Windows issues are far more common and far cheaper than IT folks who know how to fix Linux issues.
You'd say that, but remember there's a lot of Unix sysops out there maintaining servers. I'd think the bigger issue with linux support is the range of distros and configs possible. Give me three people with Windows 7 and, unless someone's been twiddling with the registry, I can expect all three OSes to act similarly. Offer me three Debian users, however, and there's a mountain of config files and subvariants to investigate.
The solution would be a Mint-like, relatively 'locked down' OS with a very narrow range of configs that closely resembled server distros. Then, you'd be able to use existing expertise (who expect a server OS) without the inefficiencies of diagnosing a 'flexible' OS.
-
.