Author Topic: An apology  (Read 16900 times)

sl1982

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An apology
« on: 2020-06-15 22:36:22 »
Well... what can I say. Its clear that I have not been doing my job properly as administrator of this forum.

It has taken me a long time to realize that having a mod, even one as expansive as Reunion, isn't worth driving away everyone else..
While I have always strived to find a certain balance in moderation style that would allow the forum to grow it appears that
more drastic steps have been needed for quite some time. I dont expect everyone in the forum to agree with what I have done but this is a unanimous decision of the admin staff.

Going forward:
DLPB will no longer be a member of this forum. If he so chooses I will put a link in his thread pointing to wherever he wishes.
The rules will be slightly changing from "Dont be a dick" to "treat everyone with respect." Staff will be much less lenient on handing out warnings to people that cannot
follow this simple rule. This place is currently toxic, needlessly so.

To Tsunamix, True Odin, Quantum Pencil, and any other mod author that has left due to the culture at Qhimm:
I am truly sorry, I have let myself be blinded by the fact that contributions arent the only thing we need at Qhimm. We need to be one big team of people sharing common goals.
To ignore what has been happening over the years is inexcusable. I hope you will all consider returning in the future as we are stronger together than we are apart.

To everyone:
I have not done my job. I am sorry. I will strive to do better in the future.

-sl1982

urgdfriend

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Re: An apology
« Reply #1 on: 2020-06-15 22:49:52 »
This... Is the saddest thing I have ever seen. I have been here (Not this account since that was recent) But I have been here for years watching all the toxic shit thats been going on. Watching people attacking each other with extreme bias including those you are "apologizing to" A real Moderator would have slammed down hard on that and everyone involved should take equal blame. Personally I feel like the moderation team should take a better look at themselves and their jobs (I know its volunteer) And realize that you all have also let bias and your own beliefs cloud your judgement. Granted I know DLPB doesn't have the greatest track record of being the better man but you and your team let several others attack and belittle him for months. It doesn't matter the reason they did it, It's not for this forum to judge. You and your teams should have handed out warnings like candy. And Honestly I'm glad Reunion will no longer be on this site. It deserves it's own place, Since Like FFNX and many others it's trying to be a way of unifying the community. But instead Everyone here let a war start.

Rcarlucci

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Re: An apology
« Reply #2 on: 2020-06-15 22:53:01 »
im speechless.....FIRST CLASS ACT ! Bring this forum back to the good old days @SL
« Last Edit: 2020-06-15 22:54:39 by Rcarlucci »

sl1982

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Re: An apology
« Reply #3 on: 2020-06-15 23:00:48 »
This... Is the saddest thing I have ever seen. I have been here (Not this account since that was recent) But I have been here for years watching all the toxic shit thats been going on. Watching people attacking each other with extreme bias including those you are "apologizing to" A real Moderator would have slammed down hard on that and everyone involved should take equal blame. Personally I feel like the moderation team should take a better look at themselves and their jobs (I know its volunteer) And realize that you all have also let bias and your own beliefs cloud your judgement. Granted I know DLPB doesn't have the greatest track record of being the better man but you and your team let several others attack and belittle him for months. It doesn't matter the reason they did it, It's not for this forum to judge. You and your teams should have handed out warnings like candy. And Honestly I'm glad Reunion will no longer be on this site. It deserves it's own place, Since Like FFNX and many others it's trying to be a way of unifying the community. But instead Everyone here let a war start.

You arent wrong. I should have been throwing out warnings like candy. But I have a life and cannot be on here all the time. There is lots of blame to go around by everyone, especially me. But it is my job to clean up the mess and hopefully make this place a bit more inviting. I had hoped that everyone could just get along without having to police everything but apparently I was mistaken. Like I said I dont expect everyone to agree with this decision but this is the way it is going to be. This wasnt an easy decision to make today even though it was one that should have been made a long time ago.

Rcarlucci

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Re: An apology
« Reply #4 on: 2020-06-15 23:04:48 »
One thing please,  can we get rid of this stupid ass karma system is does no good for anyone. it's not about pos/neg its about like you said more inviting to everyone and it gives a false sense of who someone really is and their hard work.

sl1982

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Re: An apology
« Reply #5 on: 2020-06-15 23:06:10 »
One thing can be get rid of this stupid ass karma system is does no good for anyone. it's not about pos/neg its about like you said more inviting to everyone and it gives a false sense of who someone really is and their hard work.

Done. Lets see if that helps.

urgdfriend

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Re: An apology
« Reply #6 on: 2020-06-15 23:08:21 »
You arent wrong. I should have been throwing out warnings like candy. But I have a life and cannot be on here all the time. There is lots of blame to go around by everyone, especially me. But it is my job to clean up the mess and hopefully make this place a bit more inviting. I had hoped that everyone could just get along without having to police everything but apparently I was mistaken. Like I said I dont expect everyone to agree with this decision but this is the way it is going to be. This wasnt an easy decision to make today even though it was one that should have been made a long time ago.
To be completely Honest with you, Thats the life of a forum. You kinda do have to police everything. There is always something happening. There is always an argument.. Due to the nature of online and forums and being anonymous for the most part it becomes easy to attack others. It's sad to see things go. But I feel like... If things had continued like this It would have gone the way of team avalanche and just... died. I know how hard it is to be a mod or admin and still have a life to live. But at some point you do need to come in and smack some people.. And to be honest, I felt like some of these mods needed their own space anyway. Other then the toxicity Qhimm forums are fine when people are civil, the mods people make are great. But it was bound to burst once several mod frameworks popped up, all vying for support of other mod authors. Hopefully you and your team can get things onto a level plane again. But I feel like this forum just wont be the same due to one of the biggest names in FFVII modding getting banned.

Covarr

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Re: An apology
« Reply #7 on: 2020-06-15 23:13:02 »
I want to apologize too. As some of you may know, I'm probably closer to DLPB than a lot of the people on this forum are, and almost certainly than the rest of the site staff are, due to my involvement with Reunion as a proofreader. As such I have historically abstained from any moderation decisions regarding DLPB, out of concern that, no matter what my intentions, I could not be trusted to make unbiased decisions.

But I think this was just an excuse that I made because I didn't want to deal with it. I've known for a long time that his continued presence here was doing more harm than good for the community, and "I don't trust myself to deal with this fairly" is awfully close to "I don't feel like dealing with this" or "I don't wanna be the one who bans him."

It was nothing but weakness on my part. My reasons for not taking action, either against DLPB or against those who regularly prodded him, were not good reasons, and undermined the very purpose I'm meant to serve as a staff member.

So I, too, offer my sincerest apologies.

sl1982

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Re: An apology
« Reply #8 on: 2020-06-15 23:13:29 »
To be completely Honest with you, Thats the life of a forum. You kinda do have to police everything. There is always something happening. There is always an argument.. Due to the nature of online and forums and being anonymous for the most part it becomes easy to attack others. It's sad to see things go. But I feel like... If things had continued like this It would have gone the way of team avalanche and just... died. I know how hard it is to be a mod or admin and still have a life to live. But at some point you do need to come in and smack some people.. And to be honest, I felt like some of these mods needed their own space anyway. Other then the toxicity Qhimm forums are fine when people are civil, the mods people make are great. But it was bound to burst once several mod frameworks popped up, all vying for support of other mod authors. Hopefully you and your team can get things onto a level plane again. But I feel like this forum just wont be the same due to one of the biggest names in FFVII modding getting banned.

You are right. It will never be the same. This is why I have been so hesitant over the years to take this step. I truly hold no hard feelings toward DLPB even though the same will not be reciprocated. I will send any reuinion traffic to any site he has set up and hopefully his mod will flourish on its own.

strife98

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Re: An apology
« Reply #9 on: 2020-06-15 23:17:26 »
While I am new to the Moderation team for Qhimm, I too want to apologize to everyone in the forums. Things should have been handled much better on everyone's part. We have made many mistakes in the past, and we will work hard to try to fix those mistakes. I will do my best to make sure that things are handled better both on here, and in the Discord. I do not expect forgiveness to be immediate, but I hope one day you will look on the Moderation team in a better light than you have in the past. I am truly sorry.

-Ric-

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Re: An apology
« Reply #10 on: 2020-06-15 23:19:29 »
Personally, I dislike DLBP and get into dramas and trash talking with him more than anyone but, I don't think he should be completely removed from the fórum.
He is rude at best, borderline unbearable at worst but complete removal, don't know. He has contributed to the forum and the forum has contributed to him. I believe (or at least want to believe) that a middle point could be reached.
They're all adults, get them to agree to stay out of each others way, to not engage and not bad mouth each other publicly and to not create/engage in bait topics and perhaps everyone could co-exist, as long as they commit to. And if someone steps outside the boundaries of such agreement, lay the proper punishment.

To everyone:
I have not done my job. I am sorry. I will strive to do better in the future.

Eh, truth be told, we make strawberries impossible to keep track of and properly. I've caused a huge amount of problems as well and for that, I apologize to you, to the other mods, and to the rest of the community.

I hope a more peaceful resolution can be reached.
« Last Edit: 2020-06-15 23:21:37 by -Ric- »

-Ori

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Re: An apology
« Reply #11 on: 2020-06-15 23:24:20 »
bah, i just don't agree with this

is DLPB the bad guy in this? probably

but how do you all not know 12 people just like him in your real lives? how are you not able to ignore nonsense better?

those leaving the forum because of 1 person are just as much freakin' babies as DLPB is a d*ck



but its not my forum, and in fact i'm reasonable new here, but i'm just throwing my 2 cents out there that kicking someone out of the community to appease a few babies isn't the right answer in this

Bonez

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Re: An apology
« Reply #12 on: 2020-06-15 23:33:57 »
Personally, I dislike DLBP and get into dramas and trash talking with him more than anyone but, I don't think he should be completely removed from the fórum.

I don't agree. From what I could tell, he didn't want his mod involved in anyone else's mods, and therefore also made it difficult for any other modders to support his framework. He wanted it shut off in his own little corner of the forum and wanted it to be the one-stop-end-all-be-all-solution. It's better and only fitting if it has it's own dedicated site somewhere where it can be by itself. If he isn't going to embrace the entire community, why should the community embrace back?

Edit: I thought Orichalcon was disagreeing with Ric, not the ban. Sorry.
« Last Edit: 2020-06-16 00:52:05 by Bonez »

-Ori

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Re: An apology
« Reply #13 on: 2020-06-15 23:56:49 »
It's better and only fitting if it has it's own dedicated site somewhere where it can by itself. If he isn't going to embrace the entire community, why should the community embrace back?

he doesnt have the social ability to embrace a community - and i mean that quite literally
if people want to quit - so be it, but a community shouldnt just drop someone who can't keep his narcissism to himself - moderate it


and despite having his mod source code closed, its hard to argue that he hasnt done a TON for this game and community

all this is about is a few modders not able to ignore nonsense, and admins and moderators who didnt want to step on any toes (until the bridge collapsed, then came the axe)
« Last Edit: 2020-06-16 00:00:08 by Orichalcon »

Koby

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Re: An apology
« Reply #14 on: 2020-06-15 23:59:50 »
I don't either. From what I could tell, he didn't want his mod involved in anyone else's mods, and therefore also made it difficult for any other modders to support his framework. He wanted it shut off in his own little corner of the forum and wanted it to be the one-stop-end-all-be-all-solution. It's better and only fitting if it has it's own dedicated site somewhere where it can by itself. If he isn't going to embrace the entire community, why should the community embrace back?
This is kind of how I feel about it. If it's between one modder who doesn't work as a community or a dozen modders who do leaving, then to choice is pretty obviously. It's unfortunate the issues couldn't be worked out and handled like adults so everyone could continue in their own corners here in one forum... but it is what it is and the guy made it pretty clear that he didn't want to embrace the community as Bonez put it.
Also glad the karma system is removed. Had random people disliking random posts of mine for no reason leaving me with negative karma when I've never fought with anyone or did anything negative. I just thank people for their mods and stuff.
« Last Edit: 2020-06-16 00:01:21 by Koby »

Tsunamix

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Re: An apology
« Reply #15 on: 2020-06-16 00:04:45 »
Thank you guys for taking the step you took today.

I truly do understand how hard it probably was to do. It's never a decision you want to make.
I felt similar when I clicked the "Post" button on my Goodbye thread. It was weird...

I left on my own terms and for my own reasons.
Very different reasons from the other members who followed suit in fact.

I was personally attacked for no reason other than the fact i tried to help DLPB when I thought he was asking for it. In a time of panic when everyone was concerned. Even me. Upon receiving my help he laughed in my face.

Me and him have no other qualms. Work related or other. For the most it was that.
That was the day I swore I'd leave if change did not happen.
Anything after that was me sticking around to see happened I guess.

However, I thank you all for hearing my voice. I understand a moderators job sucks.
But remember this. We as modders create things here. If it was paid this would literally be called work.
And this place is our work environment. Our online office we come to, to share it, get feedback, and whatever else.

If the environment sucks, people won't want to come to work.


EDIT:
I should mention too. DLPB being banned is only half of what I needed to see in order to believe in this forum again. I wasn't just gone because I didn't like him.

The second half was the moderators realising that it's their job to look after this place.
A playground with no teachers will destroy itself. Whats worse is when the bully of the playground is the headmasters son. So he gets away with everything.

Now I know that these things sound like they were guaranteed to come hand in hand upon fixing them but they weren't. This very thread is the evidence that the second half wanted to see.
They could have just banned him and a new DLPB comes along. But change has been made.
Therefor, I am back.
« Last Edit: 2020-06-16 00:11:14 by Tsunamix »

-Ori

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Re: An apology
« Reply #16 on: 2020-06-16 00:06:30 »

sl1982

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Re: An apology
« Reply #17 on: 2020-06-16 00:09:28 »


It wasnt unwarranted. Even you should be able to see that.

urgdfriend

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Re: An apology
« Reply #18 on: 2020-06-16 00:11:16 »
It wasnt unwarranted. Even you should be able to see that.
But yet... You are all adults... And everyone handled the situation like children.

-Ori

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Re: An apology
« Reply #19 on: 2020-06-16 00:12:16 »
It wasnt unwarranted. Even you should be able to see that.

well, i don't

if you let a punishment slide 100 times in a row, and then all of a sudden get extremely pissed that you are not being listened to, who's fault is that?

and to tsuna - although you were the victim of a really messed up comment, grow thicker skin
« Last Edit: 2020-06-16 00:16:15 by Orichalcon »

Rcarlucci

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Re: An apology
« Reply #20 on: 2020-06-16 00:13:22 »
To all the Mod's on this page, you have my respect !!!!

sl1982

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Re: An apology
« Reply #21 on: 2020-06-16 00:16:45 »
well, i don't

if you let a punishment slide 100 times in a row, and then all of a sudden get extremely pissed that you are not being listened to, who's fault is that?
And well thats the whole reason for this post isnt it? I let it slide for so long that nobody thought anything would happen. To the point that productive members have been leaving in droves. Just remember I have been administrator for much longer than you have even been a member. There is a common thread to many issues that have had to been dealt with.

Tsunamix

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Re: An apology
« Reply #22 on: 2020-06-16 00:19:51 »
We are all adults. And hence forth the action we decided to take was to walk away peacefully.
We did not cause a fight or an uproar, we didn't go down in flames and be banned in a blaze of glory upon leaving.
 
Hell we didn't even come back to defend ourselves against him trying his very hardest to provoke us after we already left. He tried to start a new fight after we already moved on.

Ignoring someone becomes difficult when they try their hardest to lure you into a fight.
Release their mod with files slandering you. Create threads dedicated to ruining your reputation.

Walking away peacefully without a fight was the most adult thing we could do.
For the sake of the forum and it's users who had to witness everything.
It is on us as mod creators to make this place into a forum people want to be.

Imagine Davey who signed up 3 days ago and see's an uproar like this?
They might lose all interest and say "fern that, I'm out."
They need to see modders working together, getting along and respecting each other.

If that cannot be achieved, then walk away.

I shouldn't have to change in order to get along with someone.
They either should follow the rules or just not do it to begin with.

urgdfriend

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Re: An apology
« Reply #23 on: 2020-06-16 00:24:32 »
We are all adults. And hence forth the action we decided to take was to walk away peacefully.
We did not cause a fight or an uproar, we didn't go down in flames and be banned in a blaze of glory upon leaving.
 
Hell we didn't even come back to defend ourselves against him trying his very hardest to provoke us after we already left. He tried to start a new fight after we already moved on.

Ignoring someone becomes difficult when they try their hardest to lure you into a fight.
Release their mod with files slandering you. Create threads dedicated to ruining your reputation.

Walking away peacefully without a fight was the most adult thing we could do.
For the sake of the forum and it's users who had to witness everything.
It is on us as mod creators to make this place into a forum people want to be.

Imagine Davey who signed up 3 days ago and see's an uproar like this?
They might lose all interest and say "fern that, I'm out."
They need to see modders working together, getting along and respecting each other.

If that cannot be achieved, then walk away.

If it really were the case that he wanted to always argue with people. he wouldn't have... Worked with many of you to fix bugs. or to identify issues, or add in supports he never really intended to add because someone needed a billion sound effect slots for voice acting. I've been around and lurking a lot longer then many of you have been making mods.

I will state right now that I am not on anyones side in this matter, The fact is. People have disagreements all the time. Some people are more aggressive then others. and quite a few of you have seen updates that thank DLPB for contributions over the years.
What should have happened is that everyone dropped it and went their own ways when shit went down a couple months ago. But it didn't. And now that a majority of the devs are split the forum will no longer really be the same cause everyone will be afraid of getting banned for doing their own thing that might not mesh with someone elses.
« Last Edit: 2020-06-16 00:27:38 by urgdfriend »

-Ori

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Re: An apology
« Reply #24 on: 2020-06-16 00:28:46 »
They either should follow the rules or just not do it to begin with.

yes, the correct answer in all of this is "make him follow the rules"

you just dont give up on people

if i can ask you some questions, if this forum would have appointed an extra moderator that actually muted DLPB for every disrespectful comment, would you have stayed?
if they let DLPB back, but with the promise that he WILL be muted for every disrespectful comment, would you stay?