Author Topic: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v2.0.99994)  (Read 4874091 times)

aquecoucou

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3000 on: 2016-03-28 15:32:33 »
I might not see the problem correctly but why don't you simply remove the 255 cap ? That would be the easiest solution to have Cid's rank to match with any other character

I'm right before the brass dragon fight, I'll wait for the patch to compare it with the 1.35 one :)

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3001 on: 2016-03-28 16:08:00 »
I think the static approach is better, since you can really adjust fights around the exact stats. The possibility to "grind" for power is according to me a no no, which is why i liked the idea of rank up in the first place.

It's a bit of a grey area as far as grinds go; the idea is that the EXP given should counter the SP gained, with the higher EXP yields of later monsters keeping any extra SP gained by dodging fights early on to a minimum.

omg dat reward for no fort condor losses

to stronk

me am win teh gaem n0w

Try not to waste it on any trivial fights like the final boss.

I might not see the problem correctly but why don't you simply remove the 255 cap ? That would be the easiest solution to have Cid's rank to match with any other character

I'm right before the brass dragon fight, I'll wait for the patch to compare it with the 1.35 one :)

I think I could, but it means using a different set of variables and they might need to be larger ones that occupy two addresses for values higher than 255. Maybe.
« Last Edit: 2016-03-28 16:10:12 by Sega Chief »

Dracozombie

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3002 on: 2016-03-28 16:21:34 »
I might prefer the static SP growth too (welcome back, btw!). Getting SP from randoms actually concerned me because I'm always worried that Cloud will inadvertently gain too many levels and prevent my lower level characters from gaining SP. Not to mention that it's too similar to the vanilla method of grinding for strength when NT prioritizes strategy over raw power. It forced me to really think and plan instead of gaining levels to compensate, and it wound up becoming more fun than I thought. Assigning SP at fixed intervals made it feel like a reward for reaching a certain point in the game, not because you killed a bunch of mooks along the way. That's normal for RPGs, and I don't necessarily mind it at all, but after 1.35 did the fixed method, 1.4 seems to make SP gain less special.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3003 on: 2016-03-28 16:49:54 »
We'll run with it for a bit; if it's generally unpopular I'll go back to the static method but with higher SP gains from event/dialogue decisions + sidequests so that it's still player-dependent. Or we could just eliminate SP altogether and just have ranks be unlocked when certain bosses are eliminated + important character specific events are completed.

Edit: Patches are up for Flevel and Scene, plus updated the Main Installer with the new files. For those using the French, Spanish, or German versions of FF7 Steam remember to rename your flevel.lgp file and lang-## folder before applying the flevel hotfix and scene hotfix. You only need the hotfix patches if you downloaded NT before today.
« Last Edit: 2016-03-28 17:15:22 by Sega Chief »

NeoDraconis

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3004 on: 2016-03-28 17:18:43 »
We'll run with it for a bit; if it's generally unpopular I'll go back to the static method but with higher SP gains from event/dialogue decisions + sidequests so that it's still player-dependent. Or we could just eliminate SP altogether and just have ranks be unlocked when certain bosses are eliminated + important character specific events are completed.

Oh I would absolutely love that!

Bukharin377

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3005 on: 2016-03-28 18:11:29 »
We'll run with it for a bit; if it's generally unpopular I'll go back to the static method but with higher SP gains from event/dialogue decisions + sidequests so that it's still player-dependent. Or we could just eliminate SP altogether and just have ranks be unlocked when certain bosses are eliminated + important character specific events are completed.

Sounds a bit FFXIII to me, which is never a good thing :o Perhaps the current system is best in the limited options your working with.

eXistenZe

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3006 on: 2016-03-28 18:28:19 »
Is there an updated IRO?

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3007 on: 2016-03-28 19:14:55 »
Sounds a bit FFXIII to me, which is never a good thing :o Perhaps the current system is best in the limited options your working with.

I hated the crystarium with a passion; trying to avoid something like that if I can.

Is there an updated IRO?

Damn, I forgot; sorry. I'll upload one separately tomorrow. I've got work in less than two hours.

deha0002

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3008 on: 2016-03-28 19:15:46 »
Sounds a bit FFXIII to me, which is never a good thing :o Perhaps the current system is best in the limited options your working with.

To be fair, that part of FF13 was not really the problem with the game. Dont let the bad memories of the game cloud your opinions on different systems/mechanics. I for one want difficulty that is tightly balanced (at least in Arrange mode) where pre battle is just as important as mid fight.

Just randomly engaging fights and "managing" to beat it with no regards to setup isnt something i want in a game i have completed multiple times.

Bowser9

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3009 on: 2016-03-28 20:53:44 »
If you make the grinding completely irrelevant for the sake of "tight" balance, then you'll end up with Paper Mario Sticker Star. Sure, that game might be more fun for YOU, but for a majority of people that liked the Thousand Year Door, who'd explore all the options and do all the things, it was a big slap in the face.

As I understand it, the goal of NT isn't to only service that narrow group of individuals that plays FF7 once or twice EVERY YEAR since the original release of the game, or that always goes for low-level runs with optimal strategy. It's also meant as an acceptable mod for first time players and people new to JRPGs, and that's why I like NT. It's what makes this mod special compared to all the other difficulty mods for FF7 (and JRPGs in general), and it always fills me with joy to find all the tactics Sega Chief has implemented in order to teach new players how to play a game that was originally "hold X to win"; all with that signature humor of his.

As long as there's a counterbalance in the system, like with the experimental Arrange materia values, equipment penalties, and element/status affinities, there's already plenty in place to consider before level and SP comes into play. So hopefully, if SP must be addressed, it will be easy to find a happy balance.
« Last Edit: 2016-03-28 20:58:05 by Bowser9 »

cheffdonty

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3010 on: 2016-03-28 21:20:28 »
I don't really understand all this "SP" or "rank" stuff, but...

It seems to me that there's some kind of penalty to the late game for grinding in the early game, at that doesn't seem right. One of the coolest things about this mod is how it enhances mob strength and AI and just generally makes normal encounters more interesting. The mod makes grinding fun! Don't take it out on poor Cid.

lex9227

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3011 on: 2016-03-28 22:03:45 »
hey Sega Chief I want to say thank you for that amazing mod you have made

and when I got the tiny bronco the seaship and they show me how to used it the game freeze there, I do not know if I am the only one with that glitch
help!!!

magictrufflez

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3012 on: 2016-03-28 22:17:57 »
I'd like to vote for SP being gained in random battles along with the static amounts given at various events.  I think it's highly reasonable to adjust the random battle SP in a away that does not break things, while still allowing those of us who play in an old school way (ie me) can still get some benefit from grinding.

I'm sure if you manage the static event awards, players won't lose much, if anything at all, from the stat balance.  Just please don't make it like Crystareum (sp?) where you get rank ups only after set events---I really, really hated that nonsense.  Having control over my characters' stat growth is one of the reasons I was drawn to this mod...

Bowser9

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3013 on: 2016-03-28 23:04:54 »
@Sega Chief
Thanks for the latest patch. There ain't no gettin' off this Japanese bullet train.

Miacis

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3014 on: 2016-03-28 23:23:21 »
@Sega Chief: The Fort Condor QoL changes are wonderful and you are a wonderful person for having those.

@SP/Rank talk:
I'm one of dem casuals and while I'd find a nice balance of event SP + (lesser) combat SP to be the most aesthetically pleasing, I can get behind either extremes as well.
Even if SP is purely event-based, grinding rewards you with HP, items, money and limits. Even if SP is purely combat based, progression unlocks materias, equipment and characters.

Really, as long as Cid doesn't get into a position where he's noticeably behind, the way SP is gained doesn't seem that big of a problem to me.

seijuro

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3015 on: 2016-03-29 05:09:02 »
Hey SegaChief, not sure if you caught this when I mentioned this earlier but for some reason the game freezes everytime I goto sleep. Fades to black, song plays, then it just stays black and nothing happens.

EQ2Alyza

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3016 on: 2016-03-29 05:23:10 »
Some sleeping at Inns is mentioned here: http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=14938.msg239108#msg239108

If you're using 7H over top of the main installer, than I'd strongly recommend waiting until we get the final patches together. After that, it 'll be updated to the Catalog. 7H is only tested to be played on clean, unmodded games, so I have my suspicions that 7H is overwriting files in the game folder that are from the main installer which are needed for NT to function.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3017 on: 2016-03-29 07:00:27 »
I don't really understand all this "SP" or "rank" stuff, but...

It seems to me that there's some kind of penalty to the late game for grinding in the early game, at that doesn't seem right. One of the coolest things about this mod is how it enhances mob strength and AI and just generally makes normal encounters more interesting. The mod makes grinding fun! Don't take it out on poor Cid.

That wasn't the intention, but you might be right. And I just want Cid to be co-current with the rest of the party so he's a viable pick off the bat.

hey Sega Chief I want to say thank you for that amazing mod you have made

and when I got the tiny bronco the seaship and they show me how to used it the game freeze there, I do not know if I am the only one with that glitch
help!!!

NT doesn't adjust the World Map file, so this might be due to either another mod that affects the world map or it might be the annoying Steam crash that can sometimes happen whenever the window loses focus/clicking away from the game to the desktop. Do you use 7H with NT or is it just on its own?

I'd like to vote for SP being gained in random battles along with the static amounts given at various events.  I think it's highly reasonable to adjust the random battle SP in a away that does not break things, while still allowing those of us who play in an old school way (ie me) can still get some benefit from grinding.

I'm sure if you manage the static event awards, players won't lose much, if anything at all, from the stat balance.  Just please don't make it like Crystareum (sp?) where you get rank ups only after set events---I really, really hated that nonsense.  Having control over my characters' stat growth is one of the reasons I was drawn to this mod...

A hybrid of both is likely the best way forward.

@Sega Chief: The Fort Condor QoL changes are wonderful and you are a wonderful person for having those.

@SP/Rank talk:
I'm one of dem casuals and while I'd find a nice balance of event SP + (lesser) combat SP to be the most aesthetically pleasing, I can get behind either extremes as well.
Even if SP is purely event-based, grinding rewards you with HP, items, money and limits. Even if SP is purely combat based, progression unlocks materias, equipment and characters.

Really, as long as Cid doesn't get into a position where he's noticeably behind, the way SP is gained doesn't seem that big of a problem to me.

I'll figure something out.

Hey SegaChief, not sure if you caught this when I mentioned this earlier but for some reason the game freezes everytime I goto sleep. Fades to black, song plays, then it just stays black and nothing happens.

I couldn't replicate the problem; I'd suspect a 7H clash if you're using that, something to do with game audio. Some processes use the audio to complete certain events (chocobo dance at the ranch, for instance) and interfering with them can cause problems. Do you have any audio mods installed?

HeaN

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3018 on: 2016-03-29 12:15:28 »
I just saw 1.4 got released and I was like "THIS IS CHRISTMAS". I was waiting for 1.4 since december and now I can finally play the dream ;)

I'am really excited to start playing it. And tonight it will happen, live on stream :D (twitch.tv/heanforce)

SegaChief you got my full respect for doing all this work. More people should donate you, because you deserve the work!

Sorry for my bad english :)

selius

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3019 on: 2016-03-29 13:23:45 »
anybody else getting crashes on mideel area world map random encounters?

post cloud recovery

yeah, i think one of the encounters for grass area is bugged. i can get into some battles, but crashes at some point
« Last Edit: 2016-03-29 13:25:43 by selius »

aquecoucou

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3020 on: 2016-03-29 13:59:03 »
Brass dragon fight is stil bugged. I'll explain it in a spoiler, so don't click it if you never did it in New Threat.

Spoiler: show


The fight is actually the same than in 1.35 (might be a bit longer tho). After some turns, Scorpion appears and help you but .. once the fight is won, you get to the xp/gil screens and right after these screens a new fight begin immediatly featuring Brass Dragon & Scorpion (already spawned at the first turn). I'm not sure what happens if you win the second fight since I ran out of softs.

Edit; Won the second fight, earned again xp/gil, no third fight.

I also noticed two other things:
-Healing Scope of Scorpion also ressurects dead characters (not sure if intended)
-You can steal infinite number of Megaelixirs / Ribbons doing the following method : 1- Steal Brass dragon once Scorpion appears 2- Die 3- Do not reload but choose the retry option 4- Repeat whole process

What happens when you retry is that your characters are put back to full life but keeps what they stole during the fight. (I didn't check but I guess it also means they lose what was used during fight such curatives.)


I'll give it another try but I think it will lead to the same result.

Edit : check the spoiler for the edit.
« Last Edit: 2016-03-29 14:33:27 by aquecoucou »

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3021 on: 2016-03-29 14:34:05 »
I just saw 1.4 got released and I was like "THIS IS CHRISTMAS". I was waiting for 1.4 since december and now I can finally play the dream ;)

I'am really excited to start playing it. And tonight it will happen, live on stream :D (twitch.tv/heanforce)

SegaChief you got my full respect for doing all this work. More people should donate you, because you deserve the work!

Sorry for my bad english :)

Good luck with your stream, bud.

anybody else getting crashes on mideel area world map random encounters?

post cloud recovery

yeah, i think one of the encounters for grass area is bugged. i can get into some battles, but crashes at some point

I'll check them out.

Brass dragon fight is stil bugged. I'll explain it in a spoiler, so don't click it if you never did it in New Threat.

That's a pain; I'll take a second look at it.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3022 on: 2016-03-29 17:10:43 »
Next set of patches are up, dated for 29th March. These fix the Brass Dragon battle, a broken AI script on a Mideel encounter, and some other things. The IRO was also updated within the Main Installer folder.

Edit: I forgot about the old sleeping man near Junon. He's still got that debug encounter on him.

Edit2: And apparently the Zero thief enemy near Gongaga can cause a crash if he manages to successfully escape from the battle and the player opens their Menu afterward (not unlike the Mystery Ninja problem in vanilla FF7 PC if she ever manages to actually escape).
« Last Edit: 2016-03-29 17:22:02 by Sega Chief »

aquecoucou

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3023 on: 2016-03-29 19:05:36 »

Edit2: And apparently the Zero thief enemy near Gongaga can cause a crash if he manages to successfully escape from the battle and the player opens their Menu afterward (not unlike the Mystery Ninja problem in vanilla FF7 PC if she ever manages to actually escape).

I can't find one, is that a rare/special encounter ?

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3024 on: 2016-03-29 22:53:12 »
I can't find one, is that a rare/special encounter ?

Uncommon, I guess. They appear in the grassy areas around Gongaga.